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TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

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TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by PeterMac on 14.10.13 17:34

There has been much talk of an "altered timeline" being the key to this.
It is being put out that somehow the time between 8:30 and 9:55 is available.  An hour and 25 minutes

Let us therefore briefly re-cap, by cutting it into chunks   All times approximate

8:30 McCanns leave apartment  -   8:45 all assembled in Tapas, and therefore all have passed the apartment
8:45 - 9:00    Window of opportunity
9:00      MO checks at windows
9:06 - 9:15   Gerry present either inside, or just outside
9:15 - 9:30   Window of opportunity (apart from JT coming back, of course )
9:30    MO checks, no sound, no SMELL.
9:30 - 9:50  Window of Opportunity
9:50     RO'B passes
9:50 - 9:55  Window of Opportunity
9:55    Balloon goes up.

Two blocks of max 15 minutes, plus one of 20 minutes, and one of 5.

Let us watch with interest.

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by Sceptic on 14.10.13 17:57

I have just come across this timeline on mccann files by kazlux the timings are different

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id229.html

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by ultimaThule on 14.10.13 18:26

As I see it, taking into account the statements of independent witnesses such as MW staff, clients, and residents of Luz, and the statement of Gerald McCann to the effect he saw Madeleine lying on her bed in the recovery position at c9pm when he had his 'proud' thoughts before returning to the bar, there is only 1 window of opportunity between 9.05-9.15pm for a stranger to abduct the child from her bed.

If GM's statement is disregarded or discredited, the window of opportunity increases to between 8.45-9.15pm.

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by aiyoyo on 14.10.13 18:50

@ PM
9:30 MO checks, no sound, no SMELL.
9:30 - 9:50 Window of Opportunity
9:50 RO'B passes
9:50 - 9:55 Window of Opportunity
9:55 Balloon goes up.
Smith's sighting was at 9.55pm. It's patently clear SY is looking at the 9.30-9.50 (20 mins) window of opportunity.

I'm more curious to see which day/time they fit Maddie with tennis balls into the scenario.

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by MaryB on 14.10.13 18:52

I read somewhere that the abduction is to be moved later to around  just before 10 pm.  That's not right for starters if it's supposed to be the man the Smith's saw.  I wonder how far a walk it is from the apartment down to where the Smiths saw this person with a child.

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by Hicks on 14.10.13 18:58

@MaryB wrote:I read somewhere that the abduction is to be moved later to around  just before 10 pm.  That's not right for starters if it's supposed to be the man the Smith's saw.  I wonder how far a walk it is from the apartment down to where the Smiths saw this person with a child.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html. Scroll down, the route from 5a to the Smith sighting.

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by aiyoyo on 14.10.13 19:01

@MaryB wrote:I read somewhere that the abduction is to be moved later to around  just before 10 pm.  That's not right for starters if it's supposed to be the man the Smith's saw.  I wonder how far a walk it is from the apartment down to where the Smiths saw this person with a child.
Guessing 10 minutes away between 5A to that back lane.
What seems ood is that the Mccanns did not make an issue of this sighting; Kate made no mention of this in her bewk (if I am not wrong).
Bizzare that they gave Jane's sighting credence and not Smith's sighting, when if you child is really abducted any sighting should be equally important and critical to check out. They could have asked the UK Police to invite Smith for re-interview back then in 2007 but they didn't.

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by Guest on 14.10.13 19:01

Maddie's sticker book timeline

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by Cristobell on 14.10.13 19:19

Brilliant Peter, have tweeted a link to it and this forum.  Loads of new names on twitter just now, hopefully they will look at it. :)

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by MRNOODLES on 14.10.13 19:34

Just my opinion.  As Tanner's sighting is discredited I'm guessing all the other gubbins scribbled on the book will be deemed unreliable. Therefore SY will try and reconstruct the whole timeline between 8.30pm - 10.00pm. 

I just can't see these odd checks in between  taken as truth unless they're independently verified.

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by JackieL on 14.10.13 19:35

@admin wrote:Maddie's sticker book timeline

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html
BUMP!!!!!

If it wasn't for Jez Wilkins' statement their alibi could have been the negligence  - remember this quote from Gerry in Berlin on  6th June 2007, when the suggestion was made to them by German radio that some people thought they were involved:   "we were with a large group of people, errm... and, you know, there is absolutely no way Kate and I are involved in this abduction."


But the problem is that Jez's statement shows that Gerry WASN'T  with a large group of people all the time.......between 8.45 and 9.15 pm it puts him right at the scene of the crime, just outside the McCanns'  holiday apartment.


So the timeline had to become way more complicated - Gerry's visit to the apartment had to include - of course - seeing a LIVE Madeleine - we have Jane Tanner, (possibly wasting police time???) with the Bundleman story etc. etc.  all written down in the ripped out pages of Madeleine's sticker book, which the much maligned Portuguese police sensibly confiscated.

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by Beanie on 14.10.13 19:35

I seem to remember, but can't find it, that someone from the Ocean club did not recall any of the T9 leaving the table the night Madeleine went missing. Is it possible the police are going down this route and they do not think any checks were made?

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by ultimaThule on 14.10.13 19:36

@MaryB wrote:I read somewhere that the abduction is to be moved later to around  just before 10 pm.  That's not right for starters if it's supposed to be the man the Smith's saw.  I wonder how far a walk it is from the apartment down to where the Smiths saw this person with a child.
Pat Brown walked it in 6 mins without breaking into a sweat.

IMO moving the 'abduction' to any later than 9.20pm digs a bigger hole for the McCs as credible independent witnesses have stated they became aware of Madeleine's disappearance at various times shortly thereafter.

I'd like to know why the police weren't called until 10.50pm which is barely 10 minutes before the British Consul in the shape of the Ambassador to Portugal was on the case - someone screwed up bigtime there.

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by JackieL on 14.10.13 19:38

@Beanie wrote:I seem to remember, but can't find it, that someone from the Ocean club did not recall any of the T9 leaving the table the night Madeleine went missing. Is it possible the police are going down this route and they do not think any checks were made?
This was always a sensible conclusion - the docs were just bloody negligent - but Jez Wilkins' statement puts Gerry right there at the apartment between 8.45 and 9.15.

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by ConcernedCitizen on 14.10.13 19:39

Hi, I'm new here and would like to mention that the astrology - imo - confirms Smith saw Gerard McCann.  It will be very curious, and surprising, if the changed timeline affects the Smith sighting.  This 2 part article was written at the end of 2012 and may be of interest to 'some' people; even those with a limited knowledge of astrology can follow it. Scroll down, two-thirds of the way, to read about the Smith sighting.  http://astrologyincrime.com/2012/12/05/hell-and-sectarianism-pt1/ It is not my article ... I am only sharing the link for anyone who may have an interest at looking at this case from a different perspective.

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by JackieL on 14.10.13 19:52

WITH THANKS TO THE MCCANNFILES - FROM THE OFFICIAL CASE FILES:  Details of the first timeline as documented by Russell O'Brien, signed by "GERALD" - on pages ripped out from Madeleine's £1.49 Sainsbury's sticker book - confiscated by the Portuguese Police:


Timeline 1 (as per sticker book above)
 
8:45. pm
 
Matt returns 9.00-9.05 - listened at all 3
                               - all shutters down
 
Jerry 9.10-9.15 in the room + all well
                      ? did he check
 
9.20/5 - Ella Jane checked 5D sees stranger & child
 
9.30 - Russ. Ella Matt check all 3
 
9.35 - Matt check see twins
 
9.50 - Russ returns
 
9.55 - Kate realised Madeleine
 
10pm - Alarm raised
 
Timeline 2 (as per sticker book above)
 
8.45pm. all assembled at poolside for food
 
9.00pm. Matt Oldfield listens at all 3 windows 5A, B, D ALL shutters down
 
9:15pm Gerry McCann looks at room A ? Door open to bedroom
 
9:20pm Jane Tanner checks 5D - [sees stranger walking carrying a child]
 
9.30 Russell O'Brien in 5D. Poorly daughter
  l
9.55pm
 
10:00pm. Alarm raised after Kate
 
Gerald

 
Madeleine's book

Madeleine's parents ripped off both covers, the front and the back, from a book belonging to Madeleine, in order to write on the inside the timing for each person. Russell O'Brien was involved with the drawing up of the timing. The book was seized by the GNR on the night of the disappearance. These covers would be attached to the case file, as elements of the investigation, on September 7th 2007, although seized during the night of 3rd to 4th May. Here are the terms on which the seizure document was based.

Terms of seizure:

At this time, it is considered of interest to the investigation to attach to the present deed, two covers of a child's book, on the inside covers of which is a schedule for supervision, hand-written by one of the McCann couple's group of friends and participant in this deed by name of Russell O'Brien.

 
Extract from Russell O'Brien's rogatory interview:
 
'But anyway Dave Payne said to, errm... there were two members of the PJ had arrived, there was a guy I remember being almost shaved bald head, quite dark complexion, and a second one who we kind of nicknamed 'baby face', who did our fingerprinting about a week later, errm... and those two were there and Dave was... was saying, you know, 'Shouldn't we', you know, 'Why are we sitting here, shouldn't you be on the radio, shouldn't there be more people here, shouldn't there be...', you know, 'this should be on the radio, it should be on the television' and, errm... I recall 'baby face', or his colleague, saying 'No media', and, you know... and that was full-stop and then turning round to me writing the timeline and saying 'That's what we want', fair enough. Errm... huh, and that's really it.

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by Beanie on 14.10.13 19:58

@JackieL wrote:
@Beanie wrote:I seem to remember, but can't find it, that someone from the Ocean club did not recall any of the T9 leaving the table the night Madeleine went missing. Is it possible the police are going down this route and they do not think any checks were made?
This was always a sensible conclusion - the docs were just bloody negligent - but Jez Wilkins' statement puts Gerry right there at the apartment between 8.45 and 9.15.
It will be interesting to see if this reconstruction is going to show Gerry and Jez!

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by MoonGoddess on 14.10.13 20:00

@ultimaThule wrote:
@MaryB wrote:I read somewhere that the abduction is to be moved later to around  just before 10 pm.  That's not right for starters if it's supposed to be the man the Smith's saw.  I wonder how far a walk it is from the apartment down to where the Smiths saw this person with a child.
Pat Brown walked it in 6 mins without breaking into a sweat.

IMO moving the 'abduction' to any later than 9.20pm digs a bigger hole for the McCs as credible independent witnesses have stated they became aware of Madeleine's disappearance at various times shortly thereafter.

I'd like to know why the police weren't called until 10.50pm which is barely 10 minutes before the British Consul in the shape of the Ambassador to Portugal was on the case - someone screwed up bigtime there.
I stayed at the OC in 2007, and did the walk myself..... granted, I am a fast walker and did it in just over 5, I am sure GM in a hurry would have reached there in @5

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by MoonGoddess on 14.10.13 20:02

@ConcernedCitizen wrote:Hi, I'm new here and would like to mention that the astrology - imo - confirms Smith saw Gerard McCann.  It will be very curious, and surprising, if the changed timeline affects the Smith sighting.  This 2 part article was written at the end of 2012 and may be of interest to 'some' people; even those with a limited knowledge of astrology can follow it. Scroll down, two-thirds of the way, to read about the Smith sighting.  http://astrologyincrime.com/2012/12/05/hell-and-sectarianism-pt1/ It is not my article ... I am only sharing the link for anyone who may have an interest at looking at this case from a different perspective.
Thank You for posting, there was a great astrology thread on the old 3A forum. x

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by russiandoll on 14.10.13 20:11

@JackieL wrote:
@admin wrote:Maddie's sticker book timeline

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html
BUMP!!!!!

If it wasn't for Jez Wilkins' statement their alibi could have been the negligence  - remember this quote from Gerry in Berlin on  6th June 2007, when the suggestion was made to them by German radio that some people thought they were involved:   "we were with a large group of people, errm... and, you know, there is absolutely no way Kate and I are involved in this abduction."


But the problem is that Jez's statement shows that Gerry WASN'T  with a large group of people all the time.......between 8.45 and 9.15 pm it puts him right at the scene of the crime, just outside the McCanns'  holiday apartment.


So the timeline had to become way more complicated - Gerry's visit to the apartment had to include - of course - seeing a LIVE Madeleine - we have Jane Tanner, (possibly wasting police time???) with the Bundleman story etc. etc.  all written down in the ripped out pages of Madeleine's sticker book, which the much maligned Portuguese police sensibly confiscated.
 is there anything in statements re timings, that as soon as GM parted company with JW, he went back to tapas bar ?

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by tigger on 14.10.13 20:16

TM wasn't keen on the Smith sighting, on record as stating it was 1.5 miles. Pat Brown found they'd used the distance one needs to go with a car, on foot it's much shorter. 

So that alone convinced me that the Smith sighting - probably because he was surrounded by 9 people who spoke to him - was a very big problem. 
Much better to hurry back (I believe he was carrying Sean) strip off the beige trousers ( on the bed in the first photographs of the police) and get Jane to see him with JW at the same time as the abductor. 
Bit of a stretch as it's more likely that JW saw him 15 to 20 minutes earlier and did not want to pin it down to Gerry's time. JW said between 8.30 and 9.15.

Still those Smiths were contacted later by the great benefactor Kennedy, after which -according to the PJ, they were not willing to commit themselves.

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by Cristobell on 14.10.13 20:20

@aiyoyo wrote:
@MaryB wrote:I read somewhere that the abduction is to be moved later to around  just before 10 pm.  That's not right for starters if it's supposed to be the man the Smith's saw.  I wonder how far a walk it is from the apartment down to where the Smiths saw this person with a child.
Guessing 10 minutes away between 5A to that back lane.  
What seems ood is that the Mccanns did not make an issue of this sighting; Kate made no mention of this in her bewk (if I am not wrong).
Bizzare that they gave Jane's sighting credence and not Smith's sighting, when if you child is really abducted any sighting should be equally important and critical to check out.  They could have asked the UK Police to invite Smith for re-interview back then in 2007 but they didn't.
That in itself makes it all the more suspicious Aiyoyo.  The fact that they didn't make so much more of it.  It supported the abduction theory far more than the dodgy sighting by Jane.  It was more detailed and there were several witnesses.  

On a different note, I am wondering if this appeal will elicit more sightings of Smithman (Gerry) in places he claimed not to be? The McCanns have always been very nervous about the Smith sighting, it will be interesting to see what this reconstruction brings.

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by JackieL on 14.10.13 20:20

@russiandoll wrote:
@JackieL wrote:
@admin wrote:Maddie's sticker book timeline

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html
BUMP!!!!!

If it wasn't for Jez Wilkins' statement their alibi could have been the negligence  - remember this quote from Gerry in Berlin on  6th June 2007, when the suggestion was made to them by German radio that some people thought they were involved:   "we were with a large group of people, errm... and, you know, there is absolutely no way Kate and I are involved in this abduction."


But the problem is that Jez's statement shows that Gerry WASN'T  with a large group of people all the time.......between 8.45 and 9.15 pm it puts him right at the scene of the crime, just outside the McCanns'  holiday apartment.


So the timeline had to become way more complicated - Gerry's visit to the apartment had to include - of course - seeing a LIVE Madeleine - we have Jane Tanner, (possibly wasting police time???) with the Bundleman story etc. etc.  all written down in the ripped out pages of Madeleine's sticker book, which the much maligned Portuguese police sensibly confiscated.
 is there anything in statements re timings, that as soon as GM parted company with JW, he went back to tapas bar ?
WITH GRATEFUL THANKS TO THE MCCANNFILES:

Witness statement of Gerald Patrick McCann, on the 4th of May 2007, at 11.15 a.m.
 Thus, at 9.05 pm, the deponent entered the club, using his key, the door being locked, and went to the children's bedroom and noted that the twins and Madeleine were in perfect condition. He then went to the toilet, where he remained for a few instants, left the apartment, and then crossed ways with someone with whom he had played tennis, who had a baby buggy, also a British citizen, with whom he had a brief conversation. He then returned to the restaurant. At around 9.30 pm, his friend MATT (a member of the group) went to his apartment where his own children were, and on his way he went into the deponent's apartment, going in through a sliding glass door at the side of the building, which was always unlocked. 

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by MoonGoddess on 14.10.13 20:21

@tigger wrote:TM wasn't keen on the Smith sighting, on record as stating it was 1.5 miles. Pat Brown found they'd used the distance one needs to go with a car, on foot it's much shorter. 

So that alone convinced me that the Smith sighting - probably because he was surrounded by 9 people who spoke to him - was a very big problem. 
Much better to hurry back (I believe he was carrying Sean) strip off the beige trousers ( on the bed in the first photographs of the police) and get Jane to see him with JW at the same time as the abductor. 
Bit of a stretch as it's more likely that JW saw him 15 to 20 minutes earlier and did not want to pin it down to Gerry's time. JW said between 8.30 and 9.15.

Still those Smiths were contacted later by the great benefactor Kennedy, after which -according to the PJ, they were not willing to commit themselves.
why would he be carrying Sean?

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Re: TIMELINE to watch for in tonight's programme

Post by Cristobell on 14.10.13 20:23

@Beanie wrote:I seem to remember, but can't find it, that someone from the Ocean club did not recall any of the T9 leaving the table the night Madeleine went missing. Is it possible the police are going down this route and they do not think any checks were made?
I was wondering that Beanie, it might account for the clip of Kate saying they weren't the ones at fault. It is very defensive and may be pre-empting something?

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