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'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by statsman on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:06 am

Possibly, based on the Smith's description, a Gerry McCann lookalike. I'd love him to have to say on Crimewatch, "Have you seen a man like this?"

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Tony Bennett on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:07 am

Cherry Blossom wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
Cherry Blossom wrote:Sky News, Martin Brunt saying police to relase new E fit of a man seen near apartment.

No link yet
Thanks CB here is his tweet....

martinbrunt@skymartinbrunt 11m
#madeleine Scot Yard to issue e-fit of new suspect in McCann case, man seen near holiday flat. New appeal for witnesses
Madeleine McCann Police Probe Possible Suspect

British detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are releasing a new picture of a possible suspect.
More follows...

http://news.sky.com/story/1152167/madeleine-mccann-police-probe-possible-suspect
I suppose if we have in view a genuine suspect of actually abducting Madeleine McCann, then maybe Redwood and the BBC could just about get away with calling this 'new' and 'fresh' evidence (if it is new and fresh, that is, and not based on a report made years ago which the Portuguese police investigated at the time and found to be irrelevant).

If, however, Redwood and the BBC are going to try to convince us that this is 'substantive', 'credible', 'significant', or, as the Express puts it, 'shattering', we will need a heck of a lot more than an E-fit of someone seen 'near the apartment'.

Redwood would need to explain to the viewing public, for example:

* who has come up with this 'sighting' of a man near the apartment?

* when and how many times was this 'possible suspect' seen?

* by whom? - just one person, or more than one person?

* when exactly did the witness first report this 'possible suspect'?

* to whom was it reported? - the PJ, LP, Scotland Yard, Antonio Giminez Raso, Julian Peribanez, Kevin a.k.a. Richard Halligen, Dave Edgar or Arthur Cowley? Or someone else?

* why was this E-fit not released weeks ago?

* what use is it being released on Crimewatch in the U.K. if people in Praia da Luz or on the Algarve will not be able to see it? (unless the Portuguese press and media also release it?)

* is there any evidence beyond a man being seen near the apartment? - is there a shred of actual evidence that he actually entered it - and left with Madleeine?

* what makes this 'possible suspect' any more likely to be involved in Madeleine's disappearance than the 21 others whose faces we have (19 men and 2 women) or the eight descriptions of susepcts by assorted witnesses on pages 370-376 of Dr Kate McCann's book 'madeleine' that we already have so far?

* whether as an experienced Detective Chief Inspector he honestly believes that he has a realistic prospect of identifying and interviewing this 'man seen near the apartment'.  


It reminds me of the release of 'bundleman' by Melissa Little and Brian Kennedy nearly 6 months after Madeleine's reported disappearance.

That achieved front page coverage in nearly all British newspapers.

What else exactly did it achieve?

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by aiyoyo on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:14 am

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Cherry Blossom wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
Cherry Blossom wrote:Sky News, Martin Brunt saying police to relase new E fit of a man seen near apartment.

No link yet
Thanks CB here is his tweet....

martinbrunt@skymartinbrunt 11m
#madeleine Scot Yard to issue e-fit of new suspect in McCann case, man seen near holiday flat. New appeal for witnesses
Madeleine McCann Police Probe Possible Suspect

British detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are releasing a new picture of a possible suspect.
More follows...

http://news.sky.com/story/1152167/madeleine-mccann-police-probe-possible-suspect
I suppose if we have in view a genuine suspect of actually abducting Madeleine McCann, then maybe Redwood and the BBC could just about get away with calling this 'new' and 'fresh' evidence (if it is new and fresh, that is, and not based on a report made years ago which the Portuguese police investigated at the time and found to be irrelevant).

If, however, Redwood and the BBC are going to try to convince us that this is 'substantive', 'credible', 'significant', or, as the Express puts it, 'shattering', we will need a heck of a lot more than an E-fit of someone seen 'near the apartment'.

Redwood would need to explain to the viewing public, for example:

* who has come up with this 'sighting' of a man near the apartment?

* when and how many times was this 'possible suspect' seen?

* by whom? - just one person, or more than one person?

* when exactly did the witness first report this 'possible suspect'?

* to whom was it reported? - the PJ, LP, Scotland Yard, Antonio Giminez Raso, Julian Peribanez, Kevin a.k.a. Richard Halligen, Dave Edgar or Arthur Cowley? Or someone else?

* why was this E-fit not released weeks ago?

* what use is it being released on Crimewatch in the U.K. if people in Praia da Luz or on the Algarve will not be able to see it? (unless the Portuguese press and media also release it?)

* is there any evidence beyond a man being seen near the apartment? - is there a shred of actual evidence that he actually entered it - and left with Madleeine?

* what makes this 'possible suspect' any more likely to be involved in Madeleine's disappearance than the 21 others whose faces we have (19 men and 2 women) or the eight descriptions of susepcts by assorted witnesses on pages 370-376 of Dr Kate McCann's book 'madeleine' that we already have so far?

* whether as an experienced Detective Chief Inspector he honestly believes that he has a realistic prospect of identifying and interviewing this 'man seen near the apartment'.  


It reminds me of the release of 'bundleman' by Melissa Little and Brian Kennedy nearly 6 months after Madeleine's reported disappearance.

That achieved front page coverage in nearly all British newspapers.

What else exactly did it achieve?
Just MAYBE (big IF) he may be a crucial man to track down, if he's the man loitering around 5A waiting for someone to pass him a bluebag?

Depends why Police are looking for him? Are they looking for an abductor or accomplice?
Are we jumping the gun, or taking a defeatist attitude that the Yard are just stringing people along?

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Tony Bennett on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:16 am

Cherry Blossom wrote:Madeleine McCann Police Probe Possible Suspect

British detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are releasing a new picture of a possible suspect.

The then four-year-old

three

vanished from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in the Algarve on May 3, 2007, as her parents dined at a nearby restaurant with friends.

Police want to question a man, who according to new witnesses,

How many? When did they come forward with their evidence? Exactly when and where was this man seen etc. etc.  

was seen somewhere around the apartment

Redwood will need to be more specific

at the relevant time.

Sky's Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt said: "In the next couple of days Scotland Yard are going to put out an artist's impression - an e-fit - of this man, who is clearly being regarded as a suspect - although Scotland Yard tell me that until they identify him

Well, have they run this through the Portuguese police, have they put this e-fit out in and around Praia da Luz?

and question him, they really don't know where he fits into this jigsaw

This 'new', 'substantive' evidence is about what may or not be one more piece in a jigsaw? He might 'fit in somewhere' but not be the abductor? Is this right? Is this the 'shattering' new evidence that justifies a Crimewatch special/exclusive etc?

that they are increasingly putting together.

"On Monday, they are going to be talking more fully about this man.

"They will give some idea of what witnesses have said about his behaviour, but he fits into the picture

That'll be the Scotland Yard jigsaw picture, then...."

http://news.sky.com/story/1152167/madeleine-mccann-police-probe-possible-suspect

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Angelique on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:17 am

He also has to work in a morgue.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:33 am

candyfloss wrote:
Cherry Blossom wrote:Sky News, Martin Brunt saying police to relase new E fit of a man seen near apartment.

No link yet
Thanks CB here is his tweet.....




martinbrunt@skymartinbrunt 11m
#madeleine Scot Yard to issue e-fit of new suspect in McCann case, man seen near holiday flat. New appeal for witnesses
Oh Lord, now they have finally collared the good doctor Michael Oldfield!

Or maybe doctor David Payne?

Thems what was loitering in and out of the apartment 5A since around 18.00 hrs that day

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:36 am

@aiyoyo wrote:Good grief, they do have an abductor in mind after all!

And, not the same one as JT!

I wonder what this new & fresh one is going to evolve to eventually? A Pippa lookalike?
Eh, pardon me? NEW & FRESH you heard the man say!

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by aquila on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:38 am

So does Scotland Yard having some sort of working relationship with the Portuguese police or not?

I can't see one.

The pantomime continues.

Brunt has been on Sky News just now saying that the Portuguese police put out a laughable artist's impression effectively an egg with a few hairs on.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:42 am

From The Daily Mail

Scotland Yard 'to release image of a suspect in the search for Madeleine McCann'
By HUGO GYE
PUBLISHED: 11:41, 9 October 2013 | UPDATED: 11:52, 9 October 2013


  •  

  •  

  •  



0

View 
comments


Police have identified a new suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and are set to release an 'e-fit' photograph of him, it was claimed today.

Officials apparently hope the photograph will enable them to track the man down, more than six years after Madeleine went missing from a flat in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz.
Sky News reported that the picture is set to be released by the Metropolitan Police, which has taken over the investigation into the girl's disappearance from Portuguese police.

[img(633.1818182468414px,649.1818182468414px)]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/10/09/article-2450854-188DF8B000000578-67_634x649.jpg[/img]
Missing: Madeleine McCann was last seen in a flat in the Algarve in May 2007
Scotland Yard refused to confirm or deny the claims, saying that it was planning 'a series of public appeals' in a variety of countries.

'The MPS will release the relevant material at the relevant time,' a spokesman said.
Read the lines in red - this news has not come from Scotland Yard. It's just more spin.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Tony Bennett on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:44 am

@aquila wrote:So does Scotland Yard have some sort of working relationship with the Portuguese police or not?

I can't see one.
There is zero evidence of it, aquila, and a great deal of evidence that points the other way.

I think however that the Portuguese police have accepted on the record that IF Scotland Yard send in rogatory letters and IF they want to talk to any one of 41 'possible suspects' or 'persons of interest' etc. (or is it now 42 with the addition of 'jigsaw man'?), then they will be willing to ACCOMPANY the British investigators to those interviews. That I think is the maximum extent of their co-operation.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:47 am

See what you mean Poe, there seems no rush at all.....


[snipped]

From Daily Mail...............



Sky News reported that the picture is set to be released by the Metropolitan Police, which has taken over the investigation into the girl's disappearance from Portuguese police.

The man was apparently seen near the flat around the time that Madeleine, then aged three, disappeared while her parents Kate and Gerry were dining at a nearby restaurant in May 2007.

Scotland Yard today refused to confirm or deny the claims, saying that it was planning 'a series of public appeals' in a variety of countries.
A police statement said: 'We are not prepared to discuss, comment or speculate on the content of the upcoming appeal in relation to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

'This has been weeks in the planning and each element of the investigation must be set into the overall context of the appeal.
'We will be asking for help from the public in a number of countries, delivered through a series of public appeals.

'We will do nothing to jeopardise the effectiveness of these appeals and we have repeatedly stated that media speculation can be damaging to our efforts.

'The MPS will release the relevant material at the relevant time.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2450854/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-picture-released-police.html#ixzz2hDyf8fNg






Not urgent then!!!!

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by aquila on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:49 am

For anyone who considers the MET and Crimewatch as squeaky clean look at what they did to Jacqui Hames, a Met police officer and Crimewatch presenter (I'm quoting from the Hacked Off website).

http://hackinginquiry.org/comment/the-triple-betrayal-of-jacqui-hames/

The Brooks trial is coming up.

What a sick establishment the UK has.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Tony Bennett on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:50 am

candyfloss wrote:See what you mean Poe, there seems no rush at all...

[snipped]

From Daily Mail....

Sky News reported that the picture is set to be released by the Metropolitan Police, which has taken over the investigation into the girl's disappearance from Portuguese police.

The man was apparently seen near the flat around the time that Madeleine, then aged three, disappeared while her parents Kate and Gerry were dining at a nearby restaurant in May 2007.

Scotland Yard today refused to confirm or deny the claims, saying that it was planning 'a series of public appeals' in a variety of countries.
A police statement said: 'We are not prepared to discuss, comment or speculate on the content of the upcoming appeal in relation to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

'This has been weeks in the planning and each element of the investigation must be set into the overall context of the appeal.
'We will be asking for help from the public in a number of countries, delivered through a series of public appeals.

'We will do nothing to jeopardise the effectiveness of these appeals and we have repeatedly stated that media speculation can be damaging to our efforts.

'The MPS will release the relevant material at the relevant time.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2450854/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-picture-released-police.html#ixzz2hDyf8fNg

Not urgent then!!!!


re: 'This has been weeks in the planning

I suspect that 'months' would be far more accurate

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:52 am

So now all of a sudden the child was last seen in an apartment in the Algarve?

Jane Tanner, could you please elaborate on what exactly you thought you saw, informing doctors Gerald McCann and Michael Oldfield of this 'sighting' only after they had already concocted a time table -in fact two different timetables- stating you had seen a man carrying a child from A to B?

After. AFTER, as in first they concoct, then you 'see'

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:54 am

@Tony Bennett wrote:
candyfloss wrote:See what you mean Poe, there seems no rush at all...

[snipped]

From Daily Mail....

Sky News reported that the picture is set to be released by the Metropolitan Police, which has taken over the investigation into the girl's disappearance from Portuguese police.

The man was apparently seen near the flat around the time that Madeleine, then aged three, disappeared while her parents Kate and Gerry were dining at a nearby restaurant in May 2007.

Scotland Yard today refused to confirm or deny the claims, saying that it was planning 'a series of public appeals' in a variety of countries.
A police statement said: 'We are not prepared to discuss, comment or speculate on the content of the upcoming appeal in relation to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

'This has been weeks in the planning and each element of the investigation must be set into the overall context of the appeal.
'We will be asking for help from the public in a number of countries, delivered through a series of public appeals.

'We will do nothing to jeopardise the effectiveness of these appeals and we have repeatedly stated that media speculation can be damaging to our efforts.

'The MPS will release the relevant material at the relevant time.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2450854/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-picture-released-police.html#ixzz2hDyf8fNg

Not urgent then!!!!
 

re: 'This has been weeks in the planning

I suspect that 'months' would be far more accurate
It seems that Brunty has jumped the gun a bit, and SY are not best pleased!  Where is he getting his info from?  Someone is talking.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by jozi on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:54 am

@statsman wrote:Possibly, based on the Smith's description, a Gerry McCann lookalike. I'd love him to have to say on Crimewatch, "Have you seen a man like this?"
Only problem with this its not going to shatter the accusation of the Mcs involvement in Maddies disappearance, is it now ?


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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:58 am

Comments ARE allowed on the article from the Mail re the new e-fit  (few comments there already)..........


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2450854/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-picture-released-police.html

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Tony Bennett on Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:03 am

@aquila wrote:For anyone who considers the MET and Crimewatch as squeaky clean look at what they did to Jacqui Hames, a Met police officer and Crimewatch presenter (I'm quoting from the Hacked Off website).

http://hackinginquiry.org/comment/the-triple-betrayal-of-jacqui-hames/
Thank you very much aquila for posting this very important story.

I would strongly recommend everyone on this forum to at least spend 2 minutes clicking on that link and reading that article.

I would also recommend going to Alistair Morgan's website (brother of Daniel) who has had a heartbreaking time for 26 years trying to get justice for his brother (I have spoken to him in the past btw).

Elsewhere on this forum I and others have discussed how:

* There were six lengthy reviews into what is now on record as a massive cover-up in this case

* The sixth and partially successful review only proceeded when the Met gave way to the Morgan family's demand that every police officer involved with this new and sixth review must sign a sworn statement that they had never belonged to the Freemasons

* The prosecution of three possible perpetrators was abandoned three years ago on the instructions of Alison Saunders, the woman who (1) refused a second inquest 20 years ago into the Hillsborough deaths (2) went to the Algarve in December last year with another senior CPS lawyer to discuss the Madeleine McCann case and (3) is to become our new Director of Public Prosecutions in December in succession to Keir Starmer Q.C.

* The names involved in this murder and its cover-up go right to the very top - let's just say for the moment that one known particpant in the whole affair is Andy Coulson, former editor of the News of the World, and former Director of David Cameron's Communications Department. where he was the boss to his second-in-command, Clarence Mitchell, now prospective Conservative Parliamentary candidate for Brighton Pavilion constituency.

I could say much more...

...but please start at least by looking at aquila's link...

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:07 am

You wait ages for a Madeleine sighting (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-alive-witness-tells-2343495) or a suspect appeal (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2450854/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-picture-released-police.html) and then two come along at once. And right at the same time as the libel trial, too. Remarkable.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:14 am

Won't put the name of tweeter...





Runt just said on Sky,his sources told him they don't know where this man fits in to t case.T word suspect not used.#McCann





Hmmm, who are his sources?  SY seem to be rather miffed about this coming out now, according to the Mail.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Cristobell on Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:15 am

candyfloss wrote:Comments ARE allowed on the article from the Mail re the new e-fit  (few comments there already)..........


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2450854/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-picture-released-police.html
Hilarious, I love the comment by Pixie Girl, she is so obviously a Team McCann monitor. Not only does she say, in her very bad English, that she wants the child found, but also the 'person responsible for taking her'.  Remarkable she remembered the end bit, given her limited education. Those monitors be very busy little bees of late. big grin

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by jeanmonroe on Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:19 am

So Madeleine's only got to wait another 6 DAYS before anyone can see her 'abductor'

Oh, well, lots to do, tidying up the 'lair'

Well you wouldn't want the 'rescuers', on Monday, October 14th 2013, thinking you don't keep a clean 'lair' would you?

If this 'sighting' shite wasn't so laughable it would be truly tragic!

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Tony Bennett on Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:25 am

Some of today's many Madeleine stories on Google:

Madeleine McCann's parents 'greatly encouraged' U-T San Diego
LONDON — Madeleine McCann's parents says they're "greatly encouraged" by the expanding British police investigation into the case of their missing daughter.  

Madeleine McCann's mother Kate wants her day in court to testify ... Scottish Daily Record
KATE McCann wants a court to hear how hurt she was by claims that she covered up her daughter Madeleine's death. The former GP has asked to appear in a ...

Scottish Daily Record
Madeleine McCann Inquiry 'Making Progress' KL.FM 96.7
Gerry McCann has said he is pleased with the progress being made in Scotland Yard's review of the search for his missing daughter. He told Sky News he and ...

Maddie McCann police 'set to release image of suspected kidnapper' Daily Star
Maddie McCann police 'set to release image of suspected kidnapper'. MADELEINE McCann police are set to release a picture of a possible kidnapping suspect, ...

Daily Star
Madeleine McCann Possible Suspect E-Fit 'To Be Released By Police' Huffington Post UK
British police are reportedly set to release an e-fit of a possible Madeleine McCann suspect. According to Sky News, British detectives investigating Madeleine's ...

Kate McCann mother of Madeleine tells libel hearing she wants to ... Daily Mail
The tormented mother of Madeleine McCann has said she wants to defend herself in open court for the first time against Portuguese police 'smears' over her ...

Daily Mail
Madeleine's mum Kate McCann wants to defend herself in court ... Express.co.uk
Madeleine's mum Kate McCann wants to defend herself in court over 'smears'. KATE MCCANN is to make a dramatic bid to nail the smears which have ...

Kate McCann applies to give evidence at Madeleine disappearance ... The Independent
Kate McCann has applied to give evidence at the libel trial of the former Portuguese police chief who wrote a book about her daughter Madeleine's ...

See all stories on this topic »

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

'Greatly encouraged' and 'pleased with the progress' of the Scotland Yard Review?- after they've turned up one man seen 'somewhere near the apartment' after spending two and a half years and £6 million?

It's not how I would feel.

I am wondering if 'Deadwood' and his men, in order to verify this claim of 'jigsaw man' hanging around the apartment, has yet asked the following question: 'Did you see a man hanging around near the apartment? to:

* Gerry McCann who started walking up to the apartment at '9.04pm by his watch'?

* Matthew Oldfield who did a check there at 9.00pm?

* Jez Wilkins who was walking round the block with his baby trying to get it to sleep?

* Gerry & Kate McCann when they left for the Tapas bar at 8.30pm?

AFAIK no-one has mentioned seeing this man before...

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by tiny on Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:25 am

@jeanmonroe wrote:So Madeleine's only got to wait another 6 DAYS before anyone can see her 'abductor'

Oh, well, lots to do, tidying up the 'lair'

Well you wouldn't want the 'rescuers', on Monday, October 14th 2013, thinking you don't keep a clean 'lair' would you?

If this 'sighting' shite wasn't so laughable it would be truly tragic!
don't forget Madeleine will be giving this person her tuppence worth and she is being treated like a princess,so a few more days wont matter.

as you say jeanmonroe ,  If this 'sighting' shite wasn't so laughable it would be truly tragic.

God bless you Madeleine you don't deserve this.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by jeanmonroe on Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:27 am

candyfloss wrote:
Runt just said on Sky,his sources told him they don't know where this man fits in to the JIGSAW. T word suspect not used.#McCann
Memo to Brunty:

Firstly, you gets the four corner pieces,
Then the pieces with straight edges on and do the outline.
Then youz gets all the blue sky pieces........
Then youz gets all the pieces with bits of flowers on them........
Then youz gets the pieces with Gerry's er 'suspect's' face on them...

jeanmonroe

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