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The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

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Swansea number ..

Post by Searcher on 11.10.13 21:41

From the link posted above (brilliant link!):  " .. the JP, despite several requests to the English authorities, has never been able to identify the owner of that mobile nor have they obtained from the English support or willingness so that they can question whomever it was regarding these calls."

" .. the mobile phone used in PDL to call the number in Swansea, which had contacted Kate on May 2, was used to make and receive calls in the area indicated in the documents and in the photographs that the McCanns' spokeswoman left under the sofa on the day of the return to England."

"According to the records now known, the mobile phone was used near the Ribeira do Vascao on several occasions, namely between the days 12 and 15 May 2007, but equally June and July of the same year.  Those phone calls were always made to England or to PDL, except one, which was made to the British Embassy in Lisbon."

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Swansea number ..

Post by Searcher on 11.10.13 21:55

Also interesting to note ref. to the Swansea number coming in as 'a wrong number' on Kate's phone, on 2nd May.  Wrong number or not, it was kept in the phone log.  Is this significant for 2nd May?

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by Hicks on 11.10.13 22:24

The unwillingness of the British police to hand over info and the call to the British embassy, doesn't this smack of some kind a cover up?

The lost semen stain.

I am sure I have read that when the PJ took RM computer away for analysis they found links to child pornography sites though nothing to link in with M.

The Gaspar statements.

The make up photo and those other dreadful pics of M posing unnaturally 

I can think of only one reason why the UK establishment would take the trouble to intervene.

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by Searcher on 11.10.13 22:26

I recall that many news items at the time referred to certain material being found allegedly on RM's computer(s).

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by Nereid on 11.10.13 22:30

@Searcher wrote:Also interesting to note ref. to the Swansea number coming in as 'a wrong number' on Kate's phone, on 2nd May.  Wrong number or not, it was kept in the phone log.  Is this significant for 2nd May?
All I can find on the Swansea number is: xxxxx0023 http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/TodayTopics.html

The area code for Swansea is:

01792 followed by whatever number xxxxxx

So the 'x'es seem random and don't represent all the numbers.

Therefore it might be 01792 xx0023. So 00 to 99 to replace the 'xx'. Not that difficult to find all the different permutations. Unless of course there are different area codes in the wider Swansea area. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard for the police to trace the Swansea phone number and ruled it out or in! It's been said it was a cold call. Now that is very hard to fathom as a mobile number from Praia da Luz called the same Swansea number!

Did KM keep it on her phone as a memory aid to pass it on to someone else?

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by Hicks on 11.10.13 22:39

http://rosaleen-thewhistler.blogspot.co.uk/2008/11/a-robert-murats-computer.html.

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how close is Robert Murat's villa to the McCann's apartment?
Would it be possible, if he was outside in his garden, to hear her crying? We know M was left to cry for over an hour( according to PF)

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by ultimaThule on 11.10.13 23:03

@Hicks wrote:http://rosaleen-thewhistler.blogspot.co.uk/2008/11/a-robert-murats-computer.html.

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how close is Robert Murat's villa to the McCann's apartment?
Would it be possible, if he was outside in his garden, to hear her crying? We know M was left to cry for over an hour( according to PF)
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mccannpjfiles.co.uk%2FPJ%2FROBERT-MURAT.htm&ei=GnJYUqWMBofJ0wX6uoHIAQ&usg=AFQjCNFK1IidGUP_MR6s09wlM9puLhAxBg&bvm=bv.53899372,d.d2k

It's highly unlikely that the sound of any activity in the Ocean Club apartments can be heard from the garden of the Murat villa.  

Another curiousity in this tale of seemingly endless coincidences is the fact that Robert Murat and Jane Tanner are related to each other by way of a maternal ancestor.

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by ultimaThule on 11.10.13 23:16

How odd is this ...

I copied the link above from google search 'map murat home praia de luz' which led me to a webpage from the Mccannfiles site clearly showing the distance between the Ocean Club apartments and the Murat home.  

Have responded to your question, I checked the link was working only to find that it goes straight to Robert Murat's mugshot and statements.  

I could have simply gone to mccannfiles and scrolled down to find the very same maps of the apartments/area etc fetched up by my google search but I opted for the lazy way.  Now I'm wondering how I managed to provide the wrong link and whether I've had some inner prompting to do so. 

You can view the maps in question via my link by clicking on the mccannfiles' home page and scrolling down the very long list of documents available for public scrutiny.

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by Hicks on 11.10.13 23:25

Yes odd!

If I see the map correctly RM would have to pass the apartment on his way to the villa. His villa is approximately 100 yards from the OC.

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by Hicks on 11.10.13 23:31

Just to add....at night I would imagine there to be little activity as the children would have gone to bed. It was also the start of the season, quite chilly, therefore perhaps quieter than normal. 
RM must use that stretch of the road going back and forth.

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by Ayniia on 11.10.13 23:58

Just a thought, anyone with better knowledge of the files can help me?
If the PJ has these documents / maps, are they anywhere in the released files?

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by Searcher on 12.10.13 0:05

I wondered that too; have never read anything about these documents; it sounds as though they may have been left there to be found.  Must have gone into the police files as the police apparently went straight into the property after the McCanns left.  On the other hand, they could have been dismissed as irrelevant, esp. if they were unable to "decode" some of the writing and thought it 'esoteric'.  Can't imagine the material was not preserved somewhere.  Who might know?

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by tigger on 12.10.13 5:38

@ultimaThule wrote:
@Hicks wrote:http://rosaleen-thewhistler.blogspot.co.uk/2008/11/a-robert-murats-computer.html.

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how close is Robert Murat's villa to the McCann's apartment?
Would it be possible, if he was outside in his garden, to hear her crying? We know M was left to cry for over an hour( according to PF)
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mccannpjfiles.co.uk%2FPJ%2FROBERT-MURAT.htm&ei=GnJYUqWMBofJ0wX6uoHIAQ&usg=AFQjCNFK1IidGUP_MR6s09wlM9puLhAxBg&bvm=bv.53899372,d.d2k

It's highly unlikely that the sound of any activity in the Ocean Club apartments can be heard from the garden of the Murat villa.  

Another curiousity in this tale of seemingly endless coincidences is the fact that Robert Murat and Jane Tanner are related to each other by way of a maternal ancestor.
I don't think that's correct. The mtDNA was of each individual. So the DNA related to the Burgau apartment was related to their respective ancestors on the mother's side.

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Post by aniandr on 12.10.13 7:28

Can someone like draw a Sketch of what number calling Who and where and when. I Reading it two times now and i dont get it. A phone found where called who and Who left a map under a sofa? Its to important i think to be misunderstood.

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by Hicks on 12.10.13 10:10

Hi aniandr, yes, it does get confusing!

Okay, I'll try to explain....when the McCann's mobiles were analysed by the Portuguese Police Kate's mobile had several deletions up the 3rd May except one call that came from the Swansea area. Kate says that it was a wrong number(funny then she didn't delete it along with the others, perhaps it was too important).

Later when the mobile traffic was further analysed this same number (from Swansea) had been called by a mobile in PDL on the afternoon of the 3rd May. The mobile  in question did not belong to the McCann's or their friends in PDL.

On 9th September the McCann's left Portugal,(four months after M went missing) the villa where they had been living was thoroughly searched by the PJ. Documents, photographs and sketches were found under a sofa, they related to a certain area on the border between Alentejo and the Algarve crossed by the river Vascao, one and a half hours drive from PDL . The documents had countless inscriptions that the PJ could not interpret.

While cross referencing the results of mobile communications between Portugal and Spain the PJ( in particular Paulo Dias) found that this same mobile, the one that had called Swansea in the afternoon of the 3rd may(in PDL) had been used to make and receive calls in the location above, mainly to the UK and PDL except for one which was made to the British Embassy in Lisbon.

According to records now known this mobile was used near the Ribeira Do Vascao on several occasions, namely between the 12th and 15th May 2007. This caught my eye as the 12th May to the 15th is the date RM hired the car in a desperate hurry, according to the car hire company.

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by bobbin on 12.10.13 10:51

@Hicks wrote:Hi aniandr, yes, it does get confusing!

Okay, I'll try to explain....when the McCann's mobiles were analysed by the Portuguese Police Kate's mobile had several deletions up the 3rd May except one call that came from the Swansea area. Kate says that it was a wrong number(funny then she didn't delete it along with the others, perhaps it was too important).

Later when the mobile traffic was further analysed this same number (from Swansea) had been called by a mobile in PDL on the afternoon of the 3rd May. The mobile  in question did not belong to the McCann's or their friends in PDL.

On 9th September the McCann's left Portugal,(four months after M went missing) the villa where they had been living was thoroughly searched by the PJ. Documents, photographs and sketches were found under a sofa, they related to a certain area on the border between Alentejo and the Algarve crossed by the river Vascao, one and a half hours drive from PDL . The documents had countless inscriptions that the PJ could not interpret.

While cross referencing the results of mobile communications between Portugal and Spain the PJ( in particular Paulo Dias) found that this same mobile, the one that had called Swansea in the afternoon of the 3rd may(in PDL) had been used to make and receive calls in the location above, mainly to the UK and PDL except for one which was made to the British Embassy in Lisbon.

According to records now known this mobile was used near the Ribeira Do Vascao on several occasions, namely between the 12th and 15th May 2007. This caught my eye as the 12th May to the 15th is the date RM hired the car in a desperate hurry, according to the car hire company.
and Robert Murat claims that the mileage on record is not correct, i.e. trying to say that he had not done the distance that the garage reckoned. Yet, the phone shows calls, at a 'distance'.

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by sallypelt on 12.10.13 11:05

I'm just throwing this into the Swansea mix. It maybe, or may not be, or relevance, but someone may want to do some digging on it.

Swansea has an airport. It's a small one, and used by people with private jets. The Swansea number that was on KM's mobile was a landline number, so, it would have had a area code 01792, the call number, according to the PJ files was xxxx0023.

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by Woofer on 12.10.13 11:11

There are call centres in Swansea, also the DVLA.
I`ve been getting nuisance calls from an 01792 number.
Also it could be a telepest
http://www.telepest.co.uk/01792350023

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by Nereid on 12.10.13 11:16

@sallypelt wrote:I'm just throwing this into the Swansea mix. It maybe, or may not be, or relevance, but someone may want to do some digging on it.

Swansea has an airport. It's a small one, and used by people with private jets. The Swansea number that was on KM's mobile was a landline number, so, it would have had a area code 01792, the call number, according to the PJ files was xxxx0023.
Yes, see my earlier post. The number should be 01792 xx0023. The xx could be anything from 00 to 99. But perhaps there are other area codes in the wider Swansea area.

What are the chances of a mobile phone number in Praia da Luz dialling the same Swansea number. Not coincidence in my opinion.

Swansea Airport number is: (0)1792 204063, but you might be on to something and it could be a pilot's private telephone number.

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Swansea

Post by mahlersghost on 12.10.13 11:18

@sallypelt wrote:I'm just throwing this into the Swansea mix. It maybe, or may not be, or relevance, but someone may want to do some digging on it.

Swansea has an airport. It's a small one, and used by people with private jets. The Swansea number that was on KM's mobile was a landline number, so, it would have had a area code 01792, the call number, according to the PJ files was xxxx0023.
Swansea also has a companies which hires out  planes and villas in Crete. Not that I'm saying the companies (owned by same persons) have anything to do with this.

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by Nina on 12.10.13 11:28

@Woofer wrote:There are call centres in Swansea, also the DVLA.
I`ve been getting nuisance calls from an 01792 number.
Also it could be a telepest
http://www.telepest.co.uk/01792350023
When calling a telephone number starting with a zero from Spain to the UK the zero is omitted, does this also apply in Portugal when calling a prefix zero?

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by bobbin on 12.10.13 11:31

just written and lost a long post, here again.
It has been implied that Justine McGuinness left the papers and map under the sofa for the police to find.
But is this the case?
Justine and K8 have been friends since childhood apparently.
When JM left their service around Sept 2007 it was apparently to go back to help her political party out.
She now has a high government post.
Before this time, when Philomena and Jon Corner were saying that K8 had been offered a deal to own up, Justine, who also admitted to sending text messages, along with K8, out from the police station when K8 was being questioned, said that any suggestion of K8 being involved in her daughter's death were 'LUDICROUS'.
So even before Pinky had taken that word on as his own common utterance, she, the politically orientated woman was using it.
So were these papers left under the sofa by JM, an old friend of K8's to "drop her friend in it"
Did she push them under there when someone was suddenly arriving who might search the premises.
Did she leave them there so that when she would pass through customs, they would not be found in her possession, not having a govt position at the time, and no diplomatic immunity.
Did she leave them there for K8 to remove, who then either forgot them, was rushed out before she could 'recoup' them.
Did K8 have to leave them there because if she'd been discovered with them, the cat would have been out of the bag.
Whichever way, Justine McGuinness is not free of implications. She handled those maps and papers. They indicate a place from where questionable phone calls were made.
She has risen, from a mediocre position, to a high post in government within a 6 year period. Perhaps she feels concerned about her implicated involvement.

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by sallypelt on 12.10.13 11:40

@Nereid wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:I'm just throwing this into the Swansea mix. It maybe, or may not be, or relevance, but someone may want to do some digging on it.

Swansea has an airport. It's a small one, and used by people with private jets. The Swansea number that was on KM's mobile was a landline number, so, it would have had a area code 01792, the call number, according to the PJ files was xxxx0023.
Yes, see my earlier post. The number should be 01792 xx0023. The xx could be anything from 00 to 99. But perhaps there are other area codes in the wider Swansea area.

What are the chances of a mobile phone number in Praia da Luz dialling the same Swansea number. Not coincidence in my opinion.

Swansea Airport number is: (0)1792 204063, but you might be on to something and it could be a pilot's private telephone number.
When one looks are R Murat's phone  records, he received a number of international incoming calls. Any call beginning with 44 and then the number, indicates an incoming call from another country (if my research is correct). So, for example, if an incoming call is from the UK the "0" is dropped. Therefore 012xx is registered as 12xx  Some of Murat's  calls begin with 44 792, and as we know, the Swansea code is 01792 but Murat's incoming calls lack the "1". Maybe someone else, who has more knowledge of international calls can make more sense of the numbers.

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Re: The Swansea (right?) number and the Ribeira do Vascao

Post by sallypelt on 12.10.13 11:48

Maybe it's worth mentioning that Air Ambulance flies from Swansea airport.. GM works for the NHS. All pie in the sky, I know, and sheer speculation that this has anything to do with the Swansea number that KM received on her mobile, but it's better to have knowledge that's not needed, than needing it and not having it.

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Swansea etc

Post by mahlersghost on 12.10.13 11:51

044 792   is the Philippines

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