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OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by Pyewacket on 04.10.13 8:49

@Searcher wrote:Will the log of calls include those allegedly deleted by G and K McCann immediately after the event?
As in "My child has disappeared, what shall I do.  I know, I'll delete my phone record".
I would certainly hope so....the weakness is with texts. To put myself in the mind of an abductor though, the last thing I would be carrying is a mobile phone, at least one that is switched on,  some years ago an abductor who stole a child out of her bath was convicted in North East England precisely because of his phone logging on near to the home of the child abductee. Another last thing would be to ring up may mates to say whoopee do just nicked a kid.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by Tony Bennett on 04.10.13 8:50

@russiandoll wrote:No apologies necessary Tony, I saw the same misunderstanding on twitter and put a post here based on it.

 What you said here... Having said that, I would suggest that the reconstruction, if for example it has already been done, must have followed a script supplied by the McCanns and their Team

if it differs from the original script it will be interesting and raise many questions. Will the errors in translation argument be used as a reason for the change[s] ?
if it is the same, as is likely, it should raise many questions as it did for the PJ.
My point I think is this.

The 'Crimewatch' programme will feature Gerry and Kate McCann appealing once again for information that will help find out who took Madeleine McCann and what he/she/they did with Madeleine after the abduction.

As night follows day, it must surely follow that the filmed reconstruction, which will surely also feature on the Crimewatch programme, will prove to the millions who view the programme that Madeleine was abducted - presumably at about 9.14pm or 9.15pm on Thursday 3 May 2013.

It is impossible in my view that Gerry and Kate McCann would agree to participate in this programme unless they and their team were 100% happy with the filmed reconstruction.

I suggest it is also likely that this Crimewatch programme has been months in the preparation. Whether this news (4 October) and the Crimewatch programme (14 October) were deliberately timed to coincide with the McCanns v Amaral trial is a matter for speculation.

It will be a very very important broadcast from a public relations point of view...

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by Pyewacket on 04.10.13 8:51

@Searcher wrote:Today's Joana Morais blog raises the time-frame of 6.45 -7.00 pm on the night of
3 May, when apparently, allegedly, in that fifteen minutes, David Payne was the "last
person" to see Madeleine alive.  I don't know the source but that is the quote on the
page this morning in her blog.  I have not read that suggestion/allegation quite as
clearly as this before.  Will Operation Grange include this in the timeline?
I believe the quote said all calls between the 28/4 and 4/5 ?

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by Tony Bennett on 04.10.13 8:53

Popcorn wrote:Well one thing's for sure, the next few weeks seem likely to present the Portuguese authorities with plenty of 'new evidence' to consider - from the courtroom testimony of Gerry McCann and other witnesses, to these phone records presented by Scotland Yard. Presumably, if everybody else in Praia da Luz's mobile phone records can be unearthed, so can those of Madeleine's immediate circle - which proved so elusive to the police at the time? If everyone's mobile records but theirs are available, doesn't that, in itself, raise questions?

So perhaps, given all this new evidence, the Portuguese will decide now's the time to reopen Madeleine's case.
I think the mobile 'phone data, as and when it is received, will be gathered by Scotland Yard alone.

It is not clear if the Portuguese Police will ever be shown these data

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by tigger on 04.10.13 8:57

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Cheshire Cat wrote:
@aquila wrote:It's all go in October, the libel trial in Portugal, a crimewatch tv programme dedicated to the McCanns, Redwood of the Yard announcing advances in the case (don't titter at the back) and the Rebekkah Brooks trial to begin.
Timed to happen before (if) Gerry gives evidence.

It is all about spin and generating media pressure and drowning out the truth.
Whose spin though?  The Mccanns didn't produce this crimewatch nor timed its release as such.

It's the METs project!
This has been on stand-by since they failed to buy GA off. Was the press storm in April/May for the same reason? It wasn't known when the case would be heard.

The question has to be asked: what was going on in PdL which made the McCanns so sure they'd be 'saved?'
All those holiday snaps requested from genuine holiday makers, all that effort to align witness statements to the official story line, three successive governments toeing the line weren't for the benefit of the McCanns but for the main reason the McCanns were protected.
No doubt those in the know wished for slightly more intelligent 'victims'.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by plebgate on 04.10.13 9:05

I doubt very much whether Mrs. had a say in whether she participates or not.

Mr. & Mrs. will be sitting alongside the police. Well imagine how they are going to be feeling knowing that what they say will be compared with the statements already on file, not only by SY and Portugese police but by the viewing public.

I cannot see how the reconstruction can be any different to the official statements.

The statements were read out to them and they signed them at the time. Tanner has repeated since, that her timings were correct. IMO they have to stick with what has previously been said.

The way they looked and the way their lawyer lost her rag with Anne (reportedly) last week suggests that they are not happy. Even if it was because they think they might possibly lose the libel trial, wouldn't they at least have cheered up a bit if they knew that any reconstruction would show stranger abduction, in which case the result of the libel trial would not matter?








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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by Pyewacket on 04.10.13 9:08

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Pyewacket wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@Pyewacket wrote:OK, well lets wait and see !! Could all be another very thick coat of white paint of course. IMO if there going to do a reconstruction it has to include  K&G and the T7. But where, that's a good point. Thing is there's plenty of time to make people sweat, and if OG are secretly monitoring they will probably watching all concerned closely right now.

shark
Far as I read  they'd not used T9 in their reconstruction, and it was NOT done in PDL, or people in Portugal would have heard all about it.

My impression is actors were used.  Filming may have been done in studio using prop up...maybe, who know?
OK, sorry, I took it to mean that a reconstruction was yet to be done, not that one had been done already
Sorry, this shark...emoticon is doing my head in.aaagh aaagh 
My guess aiyoyo is that it's doing a few more heads in than yours ! I bet there was a few people choking on their cornflakes whilst listening to the news this morning.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by plebgate on 04.10.13 9:12

Why did Ma Healy turn up again this week?

Was it really because Isabel made a blunder as tweeted by Lawson?

Would she really have forgotten that she had already removed Ma Healy from the witness list ?






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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by plebgate on 04.10.13 9:29

@Ribisl wrote:Sky News: "Suspects no more; now they have the police on their side."

The McCanns are to make an official appeal on Crime Watch at the end of the month, as opposed to all their previous personal appeals on the media.
Yes and I doubt very much that any of it will end up on the cutting room floor.

Will the actors have to sign gagging contracts? If actors are being used.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by Guest on 04.10.13 9:33

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Popcorn wrote:Well one thing's for sure, the next few weeks seem likely to present the Portuguese authorities with plenty of 'new evidence' to consider - from the courtroom testimony of Gerry McCann and other witnesses, to these phone records presented by Scotland Yard. Presumably, if everybody else in Praia da Luz's mobile phone records can be unearthed, so can those of Madeleine's immediate circle - which proved so elusive to the police at the time? If everyone's mobile records but theirs are available, doesn't that, in itself, raise questions?

So perhaps, given all this new evidence, the Portuguese will decide now's the time to reopen Madeleine's case.
I think the mobile 'phone data, as and when it is received, will be gathered by Scotland Yard alone.

It is not clear if the Portuguese Police will ever be shown these data
I thought Scotland Yard were supposed to be working alongside the Portuguese? If this information is deemed important enough for all this press fanfare, I'd have thought the Portuguese authorities would want to see it.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by tigger on 04.10.13 9:38

Popcorn wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
Popcorn wrote:Well one thing's for sure, the next few weeks seem likely to present the Portuguese authorities with plenty of 'new evidence' to consider - from the courtroom testimony of Gerry McCann and other witnesses, to these phone records presented by Scotland Yard. Presumably, if everybody else in Praia da Luz's mobile phone records can be unearthed, so can those of Madeleine's immediate circle - which proved so elusive to the police at the time? If everyone's mobile records but theirs are available, doesn't that, in itself, raise questions?

So perhaps, given all this new evidence, the Portuguese will decide now's the time to reopen Madeleine's case.
I think the mobile 'phone data, as and when it is received, will be gathered by Scotland Yard alone.

It is not clear if the Portuguese Police will ever be shown these data
I thought Scotland Yard were supposed to be working alongside the Portuguese? If this information is deemed important enough for all this press fanfare, I'd have thought the Portuguese authorities would want to see it.
I would also think they'd not want to tell the world about it as SY has done.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by Guest on 04.10.13 9:38

@ShuBob wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:The Daily Express report says that Dr Gerald and Dr Kate McCann will be in Praia da Luz to help with a reconstruction of the events of 3 May 2007, ahead of the Crimewatch Madeleine McCann appeal which will apparently be shown on Monday 4 October
Is it possible that the couple have been forced by SY to take part in an official reconstruction and this news coming in the middle of the libel trial is just spin?
Couple of weeks ago, didn't we have the summer holiday pics of Mrs and mrs Hubbard emerging from the Battista cafe opposite the apartment block in PdL?

We were wondering what they were up to then, weren't we? Maybe, just maybe

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by Tony Bennett on 04.10.13 9:42

Popcorn wrote:I thought Scotland Yard were supposed to be working alongside the Portuguese?
That's what Scotland Yard say.

But if you look at the recent quotes (last few months) coming from the Portuguese side (sorry, don't have them to hand), there is precious little sign of active co-operation coming from them - indeed quite the reverse, insisting on Portuguese officers accompanying Scotland Yard officers on any visits they do to people, needing to get written permission in advance etc. etc.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by Guest on 04.10.13 9:48

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Popcorn wrote:I thought Scotland Yard were supposed to be working alongside the Portuguese?
 That's what Scotland Yard say.

But if you look at the recent quotes (last few months) coming from the Portuguese side (sorry, don't have them to hand), there is precious little sign of active co-operation coming from them - indeed quite the reverse, insisting on Portuguese officers accompanying Scotland Yard officers on any visits they do to people, needing to get written permission in advance etc. etc.
Would the Portuguese really allow the MET to do a whitewash because, surely, that would mean the PJ's reputation will be shot to pieces around the world. They will be humiliated and branded as incompetent for many years. Why would they let that happen?

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by Guest on 04.10.13 9:51

I still don't see a whitewash. The McCanns handed SY a whitewash on a plate with Raymond Hewitt and it would have been better from the McCanns' perspective for their innocence to be "proven" prior to the court case. A whitewash would have been done and dusted by now.

Each action by SY so far, while seeming to support the McCanns, has subtly ratcheted up the pressure. Kate & Gerry never ever wanted to do a reconstruction but now they have been manoeuvered into a position where they cannot say no.


I'm not going to vote because none of the answers correspond to my way of thinking:

1) This is a case with forensically aware perpetrators so while I hope Madeleine will be found, I'm not convinced that there is anything left of her to be found.

2) If this is a proper investigation rather than a whitewash, what Scotland Yard are doing makes sense to me.

3) beggars belief - no comment

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by Guest on 04.10.13 9:51

@tigger wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Seek truth wrote:They didn't access them?

So what is all that phone detail on the pj files site?
What they're saying is that Goncalo Amaral and his team, as well as interrogating the mobile 'phone data of e.g. the McCanns, the Tapas 7 and Robert Murat, should also have sought to obtain the mobile 'phone data of every single person in Praia da Luz - thousands of them - from 28 April to 5 May 2007.

It's an ambitious project, which will keep Redwood and his team occupied maybe for years to come...
...and with unlimited opportunities of generating press releases and necessary trips to good wine-growing countries...
And keep up busy for years to come, well into our dotage

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by Woofer on 04.10.13 9:54

By REBECCA CAMBER
PUBLISHED: 02:14 GMT, 4 October 2013 | UPDATED: 02:14 GMT, 4 October 2013
 
................The data shows a timeline of calls made and their destination, although it does not include text messages.
The log was recovered by the Portuguese police although it has never been properly analysed due to the sheer scale of the task................

So, according to Rebecca Camber this data DOES NOT INCLUDE TEXT MESSAGES.   Well that`s handy isn`t it.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by Guest on 04.10.13 9:59

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Popcorn wrote:I thought Scotland Yard were supposed to be working alongside the Portuguese?
 That's what Scotland Yard say.

But if you look at the recent quotes (last few months) coming from the Portuguese side (sorry, don't have them to hand), there is precious little sign of active co-operation coming from them - indeed quite the reverse, insisting on Portuguese officers accompanying Scotland Yard officers on any visits they do to people, needing to get written permission in advance etc. etc.
Well even if their working relationship is little more than cooperation in name only, if SY have announced to the UK press that they have all these phone records it seems to me that it would be difficult for them to then refuse to share this new information that they've already told the public they have with the police force that they've told the public they're cooperating with should that police force ask for it.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by Guest on 04.10.13 10:00

 Tony Bennett wrote:
 
It is impossible in my view that Gerry and Kate McCann would agree to participate in this programme unless they and their team were 100% happy with the filmed reconstruction.
 
I don't agree with that Tony, imo they have no choice............how would it look if they refused, they couldn't could they?

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE - Independent 4/10/13 SY Review Team says there's now *41* persons of interest, and they're trying with the help of Interpol to track mobile 'phones linked to 31 countries worldwide... *PLUS* A new Crimewatch TV appeal in FOUR countries

Post by ProfessorPPlum on 04.10.13 10:08

Just as I was about to slit my wrists... Thank you Poe for that bit of perspective.

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