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New photos of the McCanns

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by Guest on 18.03.14 18:25

@PeterMac wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:Bumping in here late and have not read all previous posts, but I see doubts about the Rothley Pillowcase again. FSS reports, published in the PJ Files, are clear in that the DNA extracted from the pillowcase are of a natural female child of both Gerry & Kate McCann and it's not Amelie's.

My real question about this is: why was there no source of Madeleine's DNA, e.g. her pillowcase, available in Apt. 5A?
My guess is, that the cleaning lady came on Wednesday morning and changed the bed linen. And that Madeleine never made it to bed that evening ...
You don't get a change of linen on a one week holiday off-season.
***
Sorry, I missed that. Must be used to accommodation where changing linen frequently is the rule ...

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by Guest on 18.03.14 18:28

@aquila wrote: [...]
There are also the clothes Madeleine had been wearing in 'the last photo' on the day she allegedly disappeared. DNA must have also been present on those clothes. These clothes were particular to Madeleine. They were the last thing she had been wearing 'that day'.
[...]
***
Weren't all her clothes sent for washing on the Saturday? Finding DNA of Madeleine may not have been the first line of action in the first days - finding DNA of "intruders" sooner.

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by Harriet94 on 18.03.14 19:58

Hi all, I have'nt posted for a while because I don't feel I have much to contribute but always keep up to date by reading. I felt I had to post to express my disbelief that that the McCanns sent Madeleines clothes for washing.

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by Guest on 18.03.14 20:22

@Harriet94 wrote:Hi all, I have'nt posted for a while because I don't feel I have much to contribute but always keep up to date by reading. I felt I had to post to express my disbelief that that the McCanns sent Madeleines clothes for washing.
***
@Nina wrote:    Reply with quote

Re: Maddie's clothes

Post  Nina on Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:32 pm
There is a photograph taken on the night of the 3rd showing a pile of clothes in the McCann's bedroom wardrobe, right underneath the blue bag that they didn't own I am assuming these were dirty clothes so apart from the morning rinse of the pj top no other washing seems to have been done, or Kate didn't tell us about any.

On the 5th some clothing was sent to the OC laundry,

Quote c/p,

Processos Vol III

Pages 560 -561

Witness statement

Vera María Mestre Fernandes Arez


Date: 2007/05/08

Occupation: Laundry Worker


Place of Work: Ocean Club

She has worked at the Ocean Club for six years with the function of cleaner in the rooms and apartments of Waterside Village and for the last 4 years her function is laundry worker. Her working hours are from 09.30 to 13.00 and from 14.30 to 18.00. The laundry, her place of work, is situated in the Ocean Club Gardens.

That as laundry worker her functions are to wash, dry all the linen from the rooms and apartments (sheets, towels and clothes from some of the clients) and from the Ocean Club restaurants (towels). All the laundry work takes place in the laundry where she works with three colleagues.

That she knows about the situation that occurred in the Ocean Club since 04/05/2007 at 09.30 as she was informed by a colleague from the laundry that a child had disappeared.

That she does not know the circumstances in which the girl disappeared only having heard about it in the press and from colleagues.

That she remembers that on Saturday 05/05/2007 having washed clothing belonging to the missing girl’s family and she checked that it was children’s and adult’s clothing. This service was carried out by her colleague Silvia Cravinho. That on the next day Sunday it was her colleague Bernadete Calado who went to deliver the clothing directly to the missing girl’s apartment.


That before that no clothing from the missing girl’s family had been washed and after that date there was no other washing of clothes from the family.

That she never had any contact with the family or with the missing girl as she never leaves the laundry except to have lunch.

That she did not notice anything strange on 03/05/2007. She did not notice anything strange on the days preceding this date and does not have any information about the disappearance.

No more is said. Reads, ratifies and signs.

There is also a list somewhere of what this clothing was but I need to go and look for that yet. I am very puzzled why none of thes items were not offered for the tracker dogs, rather than a towel that anyone could have used.
***
QED

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by sharonl on 18.03.14 20:41

Sorry if this has been addressed earlier but I find these two pics interesting they look to have been taken on the same day.  Do we know where the first picture was taken?

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by Harriet94 on 18.03.14 21:01

Sorry Chateleine, I wasn't questioning your post, I was just truly astounded that the McCanns were thinking about laundry, 2 days after their daughter went missing. I also find it hard to understand why it was so difficult to find DNA in 5A.

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by Guest on 18.03.14 21:12

@Harriet94 wrote:Sorry Chateleine, I wasn't questioning your post, I was just truly astounded that the McCanns were thinking about laundry, 2 days after their daughter went missing. I also find it hard to understand why it was so difficult to find DNA in 5A.
***
No offense taken, Harriet  roses 
We have to realise, that the GNR's & PJ's first efforts IMO were to find the girl. Next to find an offender and next his/her DNA. Next to find the girl's DNA, perhaps ... After all the cleaning, that may have followed the "accident" a lot of DNA must have been destroyed, IMO again.

As for the laundry of clothes, if memory serves me, it was actually instigated by the Ambassador [or the Consul]. I would have to check on that again. At any rate, it was, yet again, one of the big red lights early on.

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by Harriet94 on 18.03.14 22:08

Hi Chatelaine, So you think that someone involved in the UK Diplomatic Service may have advised the McCanns to find any clothes Madeleine may have been wearing on the days before she went missing and ask the OC laundry staff to wash them? Have I got this right?

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by PeterMac on 18.03.14 22:16

@canada12 wrote:
So PeterMac, what are you suggesting? One of two scenarios....?
1. Gerry returned home with memory chip from Kate's camera and sent it to Philomena's husband who helpfully changed / added the date/ time stamp, returned the chip to Philomena and Philomena took it back to PDL with her, and then it was released to th the press?
or
2. Gerry returned home with memory chip from Kate's camera which contained current photo of Gerry and Amelie poolside, then Gerry trawled through loads of old family photos, then helpfully sent pool photo and handy Madeleine pic over to Philomena's husband, who used his excellent photoshopping skills to stitch together The Last Photo? Which Philomena helpfully carried back to PDL with her, so that it could be released to the press?

I hadn't thought of that !
Interesting theories to purport, I suppose, but quite complicated in terms of the numbers of people involved.  Does it pass Occam's Razor, I wonder.
But the original story, with the dates, does not pass Kate's own test of Coincidence.
As a lawyer once said to me, apropos another matter, ‘One coincidence, two coincidences – maybe they’re still coincidences. Any more than that and it stops being coincidence.’
Or from Goldfinger  "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action"

I think here we are up to about 14 !

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by lj on 18.03.14 22:48

@Harriet94 wrote:Hi Chatelaine, So you think that someone involved in the UK Diplomatic Service may have advised the McCanns to find any clothes Madeleine may have been wearing on the days before she went missing and ask the OC laundry staff to wash them? Have I got this right?

I don't think he suggested it, but he did interfere when the PJ wanted to block the attempt of laundry.

And washed they were.

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by lj on 18.03.14 22:50

@PeterMac wrote:
@lj wrote:
Talking about exif data, has anyone ever compared the camera data to the cameras used to take the other photos?
Yes.
totally different camera.
One a Canon Powershot A620 (the one on the dining table, and in Kate's possession on 10th
the other an Olympus C-50 sent off to Hampshire for examination on 8th and examined on 9th, and from which all the other photos in the album were derived.
On the Olympus there were no times and dates, as they had not set that part of the coding.   See DC Martin's statement.
So did the mcCans even know that the time and date were recorded ?
Did they know how to set the time and date ?
Did they know you could then change those data ?

I have no idea, but someone in the close family certainly did, and had a slightly earlier version of the same camera.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VIDEO_MEMORY.htm
Statement of: Stuart William Martin
Occupation: Detective Constable 1755
Date: 9th May 2007
1. I am employed by Hampshire Constabulary as a Detective Constable and am currently
stationed in the Hi-Tech Crime Unit. I hold a Batchelor of Mechanical Engineering and
Management degree from Liverpool university. My duties include the retrieval and
examination of evidence from computers and other digital media and the investigation of
computer crime. I have successfully completed two courses held by Guidance Software Inc in
relation to their forensic software tools.
I have also successfully completed one course held by Access data Corp in relation to their
forensic data tools.
2. On 8th May at 21.00 hours, the following was delivered to my home address by PC 178
Barham, requesting they be examined to establish if they contained pictures and video
footage of a hotel complex in Praia da Luz.
ID ref Description
NALF/1 Video tape from Sony Handicam Video Camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07- 5/5/07
NALF/2 64 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50 camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07-5/5/07
NALF/3 32 MB camera memory card from Olympus C50 camera Re Praia da Luz holiday 28/4/07-5/5/07
. . .
13. On checking the camera I found that the time and date was not set on the camera and it
was recording the time and date as 0000 hours on 01/01/02. This did not change during the
examination. None of the pictures SWM/3019/01 to SWM/3019/43 have any created dates
recorded. The last written time and date for each of them is recorded as 0000 01/01/02.


Thanks PM.

Fascinating as always.

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by Guest on 18.03.14 22:56

@lj wrote:
@Harriet94 wrote:Hi Chatelaine, So you think that someone involved in the UK Diplomatic Service may have advised the McCanns to find any clothes Madeleine may have been wearing on the days before she went missing and ask the OC laundry staff to wash them? Have I got this right?

I don't think he suggested it, but he did interfere when the PJ wanted to block the attempt of laundry.

And washed they were.
***
Thanks for refreshing my memory, jl  roses 

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by ProfessorPPlum on 18.03.14 22:59

I'm not in a position to do a comparison right now but the little girl in pink (previous page of thread) and the Last Photo girl...do they even have the same length hair? From memory I have an impression that 'Last Photo' Madeleine's hair looks shorter. Anyone?

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by Guest on 18.03.14 23:07

And on the tennis photo IMO it looks longer and more "curly" ...

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by sharonl on 18.03.14 23:10

@ProfessorPPlum wrote:I'm not in a position to do a comparison right now but the little girl in pink (previous page of thread) and the Last Photo girl...do they even have the same length hair? From memory I have an impression that 'Last Photo' Madeleine's hair looks shorter. Anyone?

Did you mean these two?  
     

Edited to include tennis photograph

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by Harriet94 on 18.03.14 23:18

What was the name of the British Diplomat who did'nt go out of his way to prevent the perversion of justice ?

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by sharonl on 18.03.14 23:18

Châtelaine wrote:And on the tennis photo IMO it looks longer and more "curly" ...

The fringe on the tennis photo looks much longer, it even seems that it has been partly tucked up into the hat.

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by aiyoyo on 19.03.14 3:05

@canada12 wrote:
So PeterMac, what are you suggesting? One of two scenarios....?
1. Gerry returned home with memory chip from Kate's camera and sent it to Philomena's husband who helpfully changed / added the date/ time stamp, returned the chip to Philomena and Philomena took it back to PDL with her, and then it was released to th the press?
or
2. Gerry returned home with memory chip from Kate's camera which contained current photo of Gerry and Amelie poolside, then Gerry trawled through loads of old family photos, then helpfully sent pool photo and handy Madeleine pic over to Philomena's husband, who used his excellent photoshopping skills to stitch together The Last Photo? Which Philomena helpfully carried back to PDL with her, so that it could be released to the press?


Oh Lordie Lord, that's really interesting angle  !  

Many people have observed the disparities between the pic of  Maddie at Pool and Maddie at Tennis in terms of her hair, apparels and age disparity; as if each is taken with time lapse in between.
In addition to the EXIF metadata alteration, it is not beyond realm of possibility that an old-pic of MBM can be added onto a genuine pic taken at PDL resort that can withstand scrutiny for photoshop; meaning manipulation within limits that can escape detection.  

No matter which of the above two scenarios applies, it does not distract from the pertinent point the late release of the photo alleged to be last of Maddie taken on the 3rd, was done for a reason. And, the reason is not straight forward as they would like us to believe.

It would be of interest to know what our in-house photoshop expert/s is/are going to say about this as a real possibility ?

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by canada12 on 19.03.14 6:34

One clever way to avoid having the elements of a photo being revealed as manipulated is to take a picture of the manipulated picture, and present that as the original. Any investigator looking at the elements would be unable to separate the manipulated artifacts from the genuine artifacts as the usual signposts would be missing..

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by tigger on 19.03.14 7:09

@canada12 wrote:One clever way to avoid having the elements of a photo being revealed as manipulated is to take a picture of the manipulated picture, and present that as the original. Any investigator looking at the elements would be unable to separate the manipulated artifacts from the genuine artifacts as the usual signposts would be missing..

Quite, there are quite a few more tricks such as adjusting resolution before adding elements. Adjusting saturation etc.
what is giving the fakes away is a very limited knowledge of anatomy in this case and adding unnecessary detail such as adding eye make-up.

@canada12. i've never seen the full tennis photo and imo the angle is too high for it to be taken by an adult standing on the same surface. It's taken from a higher point.
Having worked that out, I'm wondering why the length of ankle to knee is longer than the length of thighbone to hip.
From that higher angle it should be the other way round.


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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by onehand on 19.03.14 7:34

before the digital times, we simply made copies from existing pictures. by making a new photo from that existing picture, it must be easy to do if you could make a good static camera position and a good contrast as background, you could then set the camera to the date u wish and you get brand new exif data from your camera. if you set some pictures in the same manner before and after this picture with earlier and later dates, it would not easy to spot. on most you could change the day anytime you want.
the same as canada12 stated before me.

with a standard photo shop software you can work away anything from the extra background and that won't change the exif data.

almost all camera's are to reset them self when you take out the batteries for longer then 24 hours, most don't need even that long. but then you are able to give in a brand new date. you also have to use a fresh card. 

from the more pro camera's i have seen you could transmit easily a picture to a computer or to a usb stick, but you can also read out a usb stick. 

but the more easier way, if you don't mind it could left to much traces on the software on your camera is just ask google, there is lot of old info available like this example for a canon camera: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/30464-5-canon-changing-owners-exif-data

but for dummies: 
[size=12.727272033691406]if you only want to change the exif data send with a certain copy of a picture, it is easily done. choose explorer as a browser, load a copy from the picture on your computer and load up the picture in moviemaker and you can change almost everything. [/size]
i did it for a civil court case and had zero experience with moviemaker or photo shop or pictures, the only thing i could do was make a copy and sometimes it would appear in the place i had meant. i did not make a lot of progress from then on. i am still a digital nono.

it was quite fun to do, because i could even choose a date faraway in the future. but could use a complete fake name as camera, postal codes or old phone numbers for certain other codes like serialnumbers. 

the original i work on was a picture from a rare pro type sony and the picture was taken in 2007. the exif had if i remember it clearly less then 10 lines of information om it.

i had to to this twice, with the original uploaded picture and with the stolen identical picture. the only thing that was difficult was the resolution, because the maximum i could get, what was in the ability of my own computer. i could choose less pixels, but not more.
so maybe there is a clue to find.

all copies of this changed data showed up with my copy, what was on my computer. if you could look in the history of my computer, an expert on data could manage such a thing, there would certainly be traces about this changes. but our nerd could not find traces on the pictures itself. 

but everyone could check this on this own, just use any picture, i don't know how it works in other browsers, but this was easy and i don't think exif data on a picture would be proof of anything after this.

on modern camera's you get far more exif data delivered, look on your own pictures, it could give a lot away on the net, you don't want to go out there.

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by Guest on 19.03.14 9:53

@canada12 wrote:One clever way to avoid having the elements of a photo being revealed as manipulated is to take a picture of the manipulated picture, and present that as the original. Any investigator looking at the elements would be unable to separate the manipulated artifacts from the genuine artifacts as the usual signposts would be missing..

I don't think this would fool a professional; such as your focal length, exposure etc. would be all wrong compared to a genuine photograph of the same subject.

I'm surprised at all the dates and times in the Olympus camera showing as zero - I thought that maybe the first one would, but then the clock would start running so that although the times and dates would all be wrong, at least the intervals between them would be correct. I don't know for certain though. But all the same time and date strikes me as somebody doing a blanket edit on the picture folder.




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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by Guest on 19.03.14 9:55

@tigger wrote:
@canada12.  i've never seen the full tennis photo

Tigger, the full tennis photo is a sad thing. All that activity on court that week, all those little blonde girls running around - and yet still whoever took that photo managed to catch Maddie as an isolated, lonely figure.

Can somebody post it up to show what I mean, please?

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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by canada12 on 19.03.14 10:02

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@tigger wrote:
@canada12.  i've never seen the full tennis photo

Tigger, the full tennis photo is a sad thing. All that activity on court that week, all those little blonde girls running around - and yet still whoever took that photo managed to catch Maddie as an isolated, lonely figure.

Can somebody post it up to show what I mean, please?


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Re: New photos of the McCanns

Post by Mirage on 19.03.14 10:13

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@tigger wrote:
@canada12.  i've never seen the full tennis photo

Tigger, the full tennis photo is a sad thing. All that activity on court that week, all those little blonde girls running around - and yet still whoever took that photo managed to catch Maddie as an isolated, lonely figure.

Can somebody post it up to show what I mean, please?

That is it, Clay. That is what is wrong. Even before you dissect the image. There is no one around.

It is indeed a very sad image to behold.

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