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LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by aiyoyo on 27.11.13 13:33

Today's session is over and done with.
Closing statements from both sides not heard yet.
Next trial date is January 7.

P.S. Court will close soon for two weeks festive holiday until the New Year.

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by tiny on 27.11.13 13:33

@sallypelt wrote:martinbrunt ‏
[ltr]@skymartinbrunt[/ltr]

36m
#madeleine UK and Portuguese governments trying to set up joint police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance, says Scot Yard.








 If true I hope the uk are not trying to lead the Portuguese up the abduction path

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by aiyoyo on 27.11.13 13:50

@sallypelt wrote:martinbrunt ‏
[ltr]@skymartinbrunt[/ltr]
36m
#madeleine UK and Portuguese governments trying to set up joint police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance, says Scot Yard.






Trying to set up a Joint Police Investigation? Err....what does it mean?
Isn't the current review turned into active and ongoing investigation IT ?

Surely with the involvement of Scotland Yard and PJ this is as OFFICIAL as it can get regarding a joint police investigation?
What other legal procedures are required?
Unless Martin Brunt is hinting at prospects of prosecution, and different set of legal documentations need to be put in place!

It's an ambiguous tweet IMO.

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by sami on 27.11.13 13:53

@tiny wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:martinbrunt ‏
[ltr]@skymartinbrunt[/ltr]



36m
#madeleine UK and Portuguese governments trying to set up joint police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance, says Scot Yard.








 If true I hope the uk are not trying to lead the Portuguese up the abduction path
 

Indeed.  Their last joint effort was most definitely not an equal partnership.  More like a dictatorship.

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by ultimaThule on 27.11.13 13:56

@Miss Trunchbull wrote:Maybe a person with legal knowledge will help out here, but why (if the UK is the 'libel case' capital of the world) did the McCanns pursue this through a Portuguese court? It would have been a whole lot easier here. 

They would have taken councel's advice I assume......
As Dr Amaral's book was not published in the UK, they had no alternative but to sue in Portugal.  

Having said that they had no alternative, that's not exactly true as they could have opted not to sue but I would imagine any legal advice to that effect would have fallen on deaf ears as the McCanns are essentially in it for everything they can get, and they've been made arrogant by the ease with which they've been able to force others to capitulate to their demands without having to take the stand themselves.

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by sami on 27.11.13 14:03

@aiyoyo wrote:Today's session is over and done with.
Closing statements from both sides not heard yet.
 Next trial date is January 7.

P.S. Court will close soon for two weeks festive holiday until the New Year.
Any report on decision to allow them to appear ?

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by ultimaThule on 27.11.13 14:12

@sami wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:Today's session is over and done with.
Closing statements from both sides not heard yet.
 Next trial date is January 7.

P.S. Court will close soon for two weeks festive holiday until the New Year.
Any report on decision to allow them to appear ?
That's what I'm waiting to hear, sami, and also which, if any, defence witnesses gave evidence today.

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by tiny on 27.11.13 14:23

@sallypelt wrote:martinbrunt ‏
[ltr]@skymartinbrunt[/ltr]

36m
#madeleine UK and Portuguese governments trying to set up joint police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance, says Scot Yard.








Didn't the uk government interfere at the beginning of this case.

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by Guest on 27.11.13 14:37

@aiyoyo wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:martinbrunt ‏
[ltr]@skymartinbrunt[/ltr]


36m
#madeleine UK and Portuguese governments trying to set up joint police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance, says Scot Yard.






Trying to set up a Joint Police Investigation?  Err....what does it mean?
Isn't the current review turned into active and ongoing investigation IT ?

Surely with the involvement of Scotland Yard and PJ this is as OFFICIAL as it can get regarding a joint police investigation?
What other legal procedures are required?
Unless Martin Brunt is hinting at prospects of prosecution, and different set of legal documentations need to be put in place!

It's an ambiguous tweet IMO.
Perhaps this line of thought:

IF they had shown up in Portugal, the PJ would have done the arresting;
Now, AR/SY have the honors;

Clearly both forces are teaming up now, meaning -I think- the CdMTV release WAS concocted and agreed upon by both PJ & AR/SY

Neat, very neat all of this

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by tiny on 27.11.13 14:41

@Portia wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:martinbrunt ‏
[ltr]@skymartinbrunt[/ltr]




36m
#madeleine UK and Portuguese governments trying to set up joint police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance, says Scot Yard.








Trying to set up a Joint Police Investigation?  Err....what does it mean?
Isn't the current review turned into active and ongoing investigation IT ?

Surely with the involvement of Scotland Yard and PJ this is as OFFICIAL as it can get regarding a joint police investigation?
What other legal procedures are required?
Unless Martin Brunt is hinting at prospects of prosecution, and different set of legal documentations need to be put in place!

It's an ambiguous tweet IMO.
Perhaps this line of thought:

IF they had shown up in Portugal, the PJ would have done the arresting;
Now, AR/SY have the honors;

Clearly both forces are teaming up now, meaning -I think- the CdMTV release WAS concocted and agreed upon by both PJ & AR/SY

Neat, very neat all of this
I wish I had your faith all I can see is that the uk want a whitewash and need the Portuguese to go along with it.

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by ultimaThule on 27.11.13 14:43

@aquila wrote:ultimaThule wrote:

"Given the paucity of the McCanns' case to date I can't imagine the judge has need to hear more claptrap but, as she's shown on occasion that she's got a sense of humour, I'm hoping she sees merit in granting them their expressly stated wish to appear under oath in a Court of Law for the first time if for no other reason that, should their plaint fail, it will disabuse the UK press of any notion the McCanns lost their case because of the judge's bias to towards her fellow Portuguese defendants."

I don't think the Judge has shown any sort of 'sense of humour'. I don't see that the Judge would grant the McCanns any right to speak unless it were of specific value to the libel trial. It's a Portuguese court of law. The Judge will act in accordance with the law. The Judge has no need to do anything else.

Whatever the UK media may or may not make of it is of no consequence. Either the McCanns win or they lose. If they lose then they're going to have a lot of spinning to do. This is a libel trial brought about by themselves. They are the ones suing Dr Amaral. The onus is on the McCanns to prove their case (unlike in UK). This is not a political game and a Portuguese judge has no reason to consider outside influence from any source. To think that a judge has a sense of humour or would consider the McCanns be granted a request to appear because it will disabuse the UK press is an insult to the Portuguese judicial system. Whilst I understand it's your wish uT it does sort of undermine the process.


Just my opinion.
Judges in civil matters play an active role in determining the merits of the cases they try by applying relevant law to the the facts of the matter put before them before giving reasoned judgements.

As I understand it, this judge was relatively new to the bench when she made a bad call in respect of the injunction she imposed on Dr Amaral's book which was, rightly, overturned at the Appellate court whose judgement was upheld by the Supreme Court of Portugal.

When commenting on the claims made on the back of the book in comparison with its contents, the judge showed she does have a sense of humour and, in severely restricting what can be asked by either side in her court, she has also shown she is not unaware of the wider issues inherent in this case although, of course, these should have no bearing on the manner in which she conducts proceedings in her court, nor on her eventual judgement.

When saying "I'm hoping she sees merit in granting them their expressly stated wish to appear under oath in a Court of Law for the first time if for no other reason that, should their plaint fail, it will disabuse the UK press of any notion the McCanns lost their case because of the judge's bias to towards her fellow Portuguese defendants" I am merely expressing my hope which perhaps I should have made clearer by inserting a comma after 'time' which may also disbuse anyone of the notion that, in expressing my personal opinion in this manner, I am in any way seeking to undermine or belittle due process of law in Portugal.    

If I were of a religious persuasion, I would be actively praying that GM's much publicised grandstanding outside the court a few weeks back will be put to the test by the judge granting the McCanns' request and giving a date on which she expects them both to appear and individually take the stand.  As it is, all I can do is hope this pair will appear in a court of law where they will be bound on oath to tell the truth in the not too distant future.

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by ultimaThule on 27.11.13 14:54

@Portia wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:martinbrunt ‏
[ltr]@skymartinbrunt[/ltr]


36m
#madeleine UK and Portuguese governments trying to set up joint police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance, says Scot Yard.
Trying to set up a Joint Police Investigation?  Err....what does it mean?
Isn't the current review turned into active and ongoing investigation IT ?

Surely with the involvement of Scotland Yard and PJ this is as OFFICIAL as it can get regarding a joint police investigation?
What other legal procedures are required?
Unless Martin Brunt is hinting at prospects of prosecution, and different set of legal documentations need to be put in place!

It's an ambiguous tweet IMO.
Perhaps this line of thought:

IF they had shown up in Portugal, the PJ would have done the arresting;
Now, AR/SY have the honors;

Clearly both forces are teaming up now, meaning -I think- the CdMTV release WAS concocted and agreed upon by both PJ & AR/SY

Neat, very neat all of this
Cue AR's Crimewatch update tomorrow on the lines of 'last month's appeal produced valuable information which we are following up with our colleagues in the Portuguese police force and, in the meantime, here's another look at the e-fit, contact this number if you recognise this man, 'mind how you go'".  Or some such blah de blah meaningless cop speak.

However, as the CPS have made two visits to Portugal, IMO any arrest of British nationals involved in this case will take place in the UK.

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by sallypelt on 27.11.13 14:56

I should have posted this here, too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25124643

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by kitchen on 27.11.13 15:09

@sallypelt wrote:I should have posted this here, too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25124643
BBC map shows clearly how far away the Tapas Bar is; that will be news to some people....

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by ultimaThule on 27.11.13 15:12

@sallypelt wrote:I should have posted this here, too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25124643
"The programme, which was later repeated in the Netherlands and Germany, also revealed police now suspected she could have been taken later than previously thought - just before her mother returned to the apartment to check on her."

'Taken' not 'abducted'? 

Is it my imagination or do the maps being reproduced of late by the media clearly show that the McCanns were not 'dining in their back garden' when leaving their 3 infants alone in an unlocked apartment while they went out to spend the evening with their friends?

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by Pershing36 on 27.11.13 15:12

What was the knockout blow or do we not know yet?

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by Daisy on 27.11.13 15:13

@kitchen wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:I should have posted this here, too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25124643
BBC map shows clearly how far away the Tapas Bar is; that will be news to some people....
Indeed. Some size back garden innit!

____________________
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“And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.” 

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by ultimaThule on 27.11.13 15:14

Snap, kitchen. 

The subtle empasis placed on the distance from 5A to the Tapas Bar was a detail I found encouraging in AR's Crimewatch 'reconstruction'.

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by ultimaThule on 27.11.13 15:16

Maybe Rothley Towers has a garden of a size similar to that of the recently sold Beck House, Daisy? big grin

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by ultimaThule on 27.11.13 15:18

@Pershing36 wrote:What was the knockout blow or do we not know yet?
I'm hoping it's the judge having granted the McCanns' application. 

If not, maybe it's something which will be revealed in the eventual transcript of today's hearing.

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by PeterMac on 27.11.13 15:18

@kitchen wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:I should have posted this here, too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25124643
BBC map shows clearly how far away the Tapas Bar is; that will be news to some people....
It is a very good view,

Showing all the relevant places, and the distances involved.

You can also see the strange pyramid which people got so hot and bothered about a couple of years ago. Just at the end of the apartment road,

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by Guest on 27.11.13 15:24

@sallypelt wrote:I should have posted this here, too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25124643
Caption on your link: NSA plan to shame Web-porn users

Now, isn't this just so nice? And high time too, I'd say. Wouldn't you all agree?

Remember the Alamo; Geraldimo Geronimo!

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by Miss Trunchbull on 27.11.13 15:29

What is the significance of the pyramid please? 

(my interest in the MM disappearance was re-ignited only recently, after the Crimewatch TV programme. I know that numerous people here have spent a lot of time and effort over the past few years to piece together a convincing theory as to what really happened, but sometimes you refer to things that only the 'oldtimers' understand  - the pyramid being one of them).

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by sallypelt on 27.11.13 15:30

We can't leave him out:

@JerryLawton Jerry Lawton now
Met Police Commissioner says work underway to set up joint task force of Brit and Portuguese officers in bid to solve #McCann mystery

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Re: LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

Post by Guest on 27.11.13 15:34

@PeterMac wrote:

You can also see the strange pyramid which people got so hot and bothered about a couple of years ago. Just at the end of the apartment road,
I've never heard mention of that before. Were they hot and bothered in a David Icke kinda way? Spiritual energies, all seeing eyes, that kind of thing?

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