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Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by Searcher on 28.10.13 1:19

Exactly so:  then there would  be a reason for doing it!clapping

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by whmon on 28.10.13 2:15

One thing that we hare all avoided is pure evilness. We have not looked at (but possibly thought of) the idea of pure evil. When the story first broke people believed the given story because the parents were doctors. At the same time we are aware of other medical professionals: Shipman, Beverly Alleit (sp) etc . who have surprised us with their crimes. There are also cases of couples such as the Wests' and Brady/Hindley where a couple have got together and acted out their dark thoughts. Bear in mind that the McCanns are not 'upper middle class' as is widely reported but are from working class backgrounds who have managed to elevate themselves through university (the same as myself.) Despite having a level 8 qualification and being a local employer I still believe I am working class, the McCanns are too.

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by Curioser on 28.10.13 3:53

@whmon wrote:One thing that we hare all avoided is pure evilness. We have not looked at (but possibly thought of) the idea of pure evil. When the story first broke people believed the given story because the parents were doctors. At the same time we are aware of other medical professionals: Shipman, Beverly Alleit (sp) etc . who have surprised us with their crimes. There are also cases of couples such as the Wests' and Brady/Hindley where a couple have got together and acted out their dark thoughts. Bear in mind that the McCanns are not 'upper middle class' as is widely reported but are from working class backgrounds who have managed to elevate themselves through university (the same as myself.) Despite having a level 8 qualification and being a local employer I still believe I am working class, the McCanns are too.
I think it has been discussed at length. There are all sorts of theories on here including that they intended to sell the girl, that they are a paedo ring who used the children, that they came on the holiday to kill Madeleine. You can find them in other threads. I don't really buy those theories although I acknowledge they could be right Truth is often stranger than fiction. But perhaps you could find them if you want to explore that avenue?

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by View-from-Ireland on 28.10.13 11:32

Good work Curioser, very well researched and quite plausible.

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by Varriott on 01.11.13 3:57

I want to applaud this theory, Curiouser.clapping1  

For the first time in a long time, I'm thinking of this differently.

One thing I will say, as an overtired parent myself, is this: while the idea of sex in the other room may make for good drama, it's probably more likely that they were taking a nap before dinner if/when an accident happened.  I mean, seriously - tennis, jogging, looking after three kids, drinking, sex, cleaning the apartment and carrying a body across town all in one day??  I don't think so.

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by Curioser on 01.11.13 4:36

Thanks View-from-Ireland smilie 

Varriot, lol. I see your point, but they are fitness fanatics so maybe they would have the energy. The whole New Zealand wine episode with details of Gerry sitting on the couch etc just doesn't ring true to me. Not that much does though...

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by ultimaThule on 01.11.13 6:52

@Curioser wrote:
@whmon wrote:One thing that we hare all avoided is pure evilness. We have not looked at (but possibly thought of) the idea of pure evil. When the story first broke people believed the given story because the parents were doctors. At the same time we are aware of other medical professionals: Shipman, Beverly Alleit (sp) etc . who have surprised us with their crimes. There are also cases of couples such as the Wests' and Brady/Hindley where a couple have got together and acted out their dark thoughts. Bear in mind that the McCanns are not 'upper middle class' as is widely reported but are from working class backgrounds who have managed to elevate themselves through university (the same as myself.) Despite having a level 8 qualification and being a local employer I still believe I am working class, the McCanns are too.
I think it has been discussed at length. There are all sorts of theories on here including that they intended to sell the girl, that they are a paedo ring who used the children, that they came on the holiday to kill Madeleine. You can find them in other threads. I don't really buy those theories although I acknowledge they could be right Truth is often stranger than fiction. But perhaps you could find them if you want to explore that avenue
Had Madeleine died as a result of accidental injury, any delay in notifying the authorities could be explained by her parents both being doctors who are competent to certify death and who were aware that, once the appropriate authorities were alerted, she would immediately be removed to a mortuary to await autopsy, a prospect which would be worsened by the thought of her being alone far from home and in a foreign country.   

Under those circumstances, it would be entirely understandable if the McCanns delayed parting with the body of their beloved child who succumbed to accidental death which autopsy would undoubtedly confirm, and I have no doubt their friends would have supported this account by affirming that Madeleine's distraught parents had to be gently persuaded over a period of hours, if not days, to make the necessary call with none of them wishing to be the one who hastened the inevitable.  

In short, had they not been present at the time their eldest daughter sustained accidental fatal injury, the McCanns would have had no difficulty hiding the fact that they were absent when she died, or finding reason to delay until time of death could not be determined with any accuracy. 

The indisputable fact is that there can be only one reason why Madeleine's body was concealed, which is that the findings of an autopsy would have caused the McCanns to account for her death in a court of law with all that entails, including the potential removal of the twins from their care, being struck off the Medical Register etc.

If Madeleine died of an overdose of non-prescribed medication administered by one or other of her parents in order that they could leave their child/ren home alone for hours, and if their friends were also medicating their offspring with similar intent,  the findings of autopsy could lead to her siblings and the other children in the group being tested to see whether they had also ingested any non-prescribed drugs and this scenario may explain the infamous 'pact'.

However, tempted as I am to believe that the Tapas 9 are all in it up to their necks, it's possible that if Madeleine died as a result of non-accidental injury/injuries the McCanns may not have revealed the truth to all of their friends and some may have colluded in a cover-up without being fully aware of the circumstances of her death. 

Fwiw if GM, or anyone else for that matter, had picked up Madeleine's dead body after it had lain on the floor behind the sofa for some 2 hours and swung round with her corpse in their arms, any blood shed either before or at the time she died would be congealed to a point of solidification and there would be no blood spatter on the wall.

In order to better understand what may have taken place during the week commencing 29 May 2007, we should discuss the concept of pure evilness which whmon has eluded to at length and, in the meantime, I repeat that I will never buy into any theory which has the McCanns and/or their friends panicked into disposing of a dead body.

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by galena on 01.11.13 7:55

@whmon wrote:One thing that we hare all avoided is pure evilness. We have not looked at (but possibly thought of) the idea of pure evil. When the story first broke people believed the given story because the parents were doctors. At the same time we are aware of other medical professionals: Shipman, Beverly Alleit (sp) etc . who have surprised us with their crimes. There are also cases of couples such as the Wests' and Brady/Hindley where a couple have got together and acted out their dark thoughts. Bear in mind that the McCanns are not 'upper middle class' as is widely reported but are from working class backgrounds who have managed to elevate themselves through university (the same as myself.) Despite having a level 8 qualification and being a local employer I still believe I am working class, the McCanns are too.
Yes I have a degree but would define myself as working class too - but I'm not sure I see your point - is it that working class people are more likely to be 'pure evil' that upper middle class people?

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by Research_Reader on 01.11.13 9:59

I find this theory very plausible, especially as it links in with the scream from Kate which apparently suddenly brought an end to the searching - this could have been the moment Madeline was discovered behind the sofa.

However, one thing we still come back to (which is a problem for almost any thing that involves the McCanns and T7 lying): Why risk pushing for such a huge international publicity campaign? Doesn't this not only put them under constant risk of exposure, but also involves the endless anxiety/pain of having to appear in front of the cameras?

The only possible answers I can think of are:

(1) They have something in their personalities which takes pleasure in the media exposure for whatever reason.

(2) They absolutely needed millions of pounds to protect themselves, for whatever reason.

(3) By effectively running their own parallel investigation they have been able to get sight of, or even control, a lot of the evidence.

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by bellum on 01.11.13 10:22

My idea is that there was an agreement between Kate and Gerry. If somebody would see him carrying
the body down streets, he would give Kate a sign through his cellular phone, which he did.
He did and Kate raised the alarm.
What intrigues me is the fact that he seems to have come back to the apartment not wearing his dark jack
and wearing different shoes.
Somebody of the Tapas must have waited for him somewhere, helping him to hiding those clothes.
It could have been Jane Tanner or Russel O''Brian, I speculate.

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by russiandoll on 01.11.13 10:38

well if Smithman had a phone in his trouser pocket while carrying this child in a PdL street, the cell phone analysis will be interesting !

 I still harbour thoughts that the night K slept apart from G, there had been much more fuss made of his lack of attention....there was an argument, Maddie woke up, became distressed, was ignored due to the pair being too preoccupied with one another, fell or got caught up in a fight that had become physical, Kate restrained by Gerry, Maddie caught in the crossfire, knocked over and was fatally hurt on that tiled floor.

 There is a simple, really very simple explanation for what happened to Maddie. Everything which followed is the complex stuff, the smoke and mirrors to misdirect .
 I am convinced that had there been simultaneous but separate very firm questioning by the PJ, the truth would have come out soon after the event. They were far too kind to this group with their childcare problems on 4th.....they should all have been hauled off to a couple of different police stations, not that many interview rooms needed, one in, one waits.
 There would have been no time for collusion and the case would have imo been solved very quickly.
This was the PJ's big mistake imo.

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by Research_Reader on 01.11.13 10:52

@russiandoll wrote:
 I am convinced that had there been simultaneous but separate very firm questioning by the PJ, the truth would have come out soon after the event. 
Agreed.

Plus an immediate, complete analysis of the mobile phone signal data from the entire area.

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by pennylane on 01.11.13 12:39

@Research_Reader wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:
 I am convinced that had there been simultaneous but separate very firm questioning by the PJ, the truth would have come out soon after the event. 
Agreed.

Plus an immediate, complete analysis of the mobile phone signal data from the entire area.
Absolutely agree with you both.

I believe Kate would have told the truth if they got to her early; and as for Jane Tanner, well she would have gotten tied up in knots in seconds.  Some tough questioning, on film, of the lot of them individually, would have delivered rapid results.  And of course, they should have never trusted the UK Govt with the forensic testing.

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by Curioser on 01.11.13 12:56

@ultimaThule wrote:
@Curioser wrote:
@whmon wrote:One thing that we hare all avoided is pure evilness. We have not looked at (but possibly thought of) the idea of pure evil. When the story first broke people believed the given story because the parents were doctors. At the same time we are aware of other medical professionals: Shipman, Beverly Alleit (sp) etc . who have surprised us with their crimes. There are also cases of couples such as the Wests' and Brady/Hindley where a couple have got together and acted out their dark thoughts. Bear in mind that the McCanns are not 'upper middle class' as is widely reported but are from working class backgrounds who have managed to elevate themselves through university (the same as myself.) Despite having a level 8 qualification and being a local employer I still believe I am working class, the McCanns are too.
I think it has been discussed at length. There are all sorts of theories on here including that they intended to sell the girl, that they are a paedo ring who used the children, that they came on the holiday to kill Madeleine. You can find them in other threads. I don't really buy those theories although I acknowledge they could be right Truth is often stranger than fiction. But perhaps you could find them if you want to explore that avenue
(snip)

Fwiw if GM, or anyone else for that matter, had picked up Madeleine's dead body after it had lain on the floor behind the sofa for some 2 hours and swung round with her corpse in their arms, any blood shed either before or at the time she died would be congealed to a point of solidification and there would be no blood spatter on the wall.

In order to better understand what may have taken place during the week commencing 29 May 2007, we should discuss the concept of pure evilness which whmon has eluded to at length and, in the meantime, I repeat that I will never buy into any theory which has the McCanns and/or their friends panicked into disposing of a dead body.
Hey ultimaThule, you make some good points there and you're right we should look at all the possibilities. I only mean that I'm not keen to do it in this thread because this thread is about the theory on page 1 and 7. The other theories have their own threads, as they should. I don't expect to change your mind about the panic. I'm just exploring a different idea.

Re congealed blood, the fluid may not have been blood. It may have been brain fluid or urine. Ick.

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by Curioser on 01.11.13 13:10

It would have been great if they had the resources to do a thorough and comprehensive analysis of phone traffic in the area but I imagine they didn't. They also had to explore every lead that was suggested including the abduction, paedo rings, dreamed of boats, cliff bags, even psychic reports. They had a lot on their plate. I think large data analysis has come a long way since 2007 and I hope they're feeding all the pings into a nice big computer.

Russiandoll, I don't understand why they would leave her behind the sofa if they knew she had been hurt. Petermac suggested that possibly they didn't check her when they came back from dinner on Wednesday night. Perhaps Kate didn't turn the light on becuase she was upset with Gerry and M was already behind the sofa then. It's another theory. A strong one. But I'm interested in exploring the same night theory here.

I think you're all right. The PJ were polite and helpful and already under pressure I think from the UK. They also had a former lawyer with them so they may have had advice. Keep it vague. Don't be sure of anything. Mix up details. If in doubt, say nothing. If they had been brutal perhaps they would have cracked it, perhaps not. Maybe they all would have clammed up totally and insisted on representation.

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by Searcher on 01.11.13 18:06

I am very interested in 2nd May.spin

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by thetruthbeknown on 01.11.13 21:24

@russiandoll wrote:well if Smithman had a phone in his trouser pocket while carrying this child in a PdL street, the cell phone analysis will be interesting !

 I still harbour thoughts that the night K slept apart from G, there had been much more fuss made of his lack of attention....there was an argument, Maddie woke up, became distressed, was ignored due to the pair being too preoccupied with one another, fell or got caught up in a fight that had become physical, Kate restrained by Gerry, Maddie caught in the crossfire, knocked over and was fatally hurt on that tiled floor.

 There is a simple, really very simple explanation for what happened to Maddie. Everything which followed is the complex stuff, the smoke and mirrors to misdirect .
 I am convinced that had there been simultaneous but separate very firm questioning by the PJ, the truth would have come out soon after the event. They were far too kind to this group with their childcare problems on 4th.....they should all have been hauled off to a couple of different police stations, not that many interview rooms needed, one in, one waits.
 There would have been no time for collusion and the case would have imo been solved very quickly.
This was the PJ's big mistake imo.
Thats an interesting one. Im really looking through theories that incorporate feelings of 'self blame' and then 'damage limitation' and finally 'self preservation'..

however your last part..on police involvement. As the police were not called immediately, it would have allowed plenty of time for collusion before they even came onto the scene? Plans made etc..Im not sure on that part. I think the collusion was cemented before questioning on the 4th and before the police call on the 3rd?

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by Curioser on 01.11.13 22:39

@Searcher wrote:I am very interested in 2nd May.spin
Have you seen this? http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.com.au/p/theory-english.html

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by Searcher on 02.11.13 0:18

Thankyou, Curioser and Candyfloss; much appreciated and some very interesting reading here about another possible timeline.

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by Varriott on 02.11.13 0:59

The more I think about this intriguing timeline, the less I'm convinced about the 7:30 make-up sex hypothesis.  Aside from what I said before about the McCanns not having such extraordinary amounts of energy (something to aspire to, but not realistic), I think that if something happened, it was probably earlier.

I can't get past DP's weird description of his 6:30ish visit.  KM was in the shower, with three small kids unsupervised.  Already, this is crazy.  Who on earth does that??  I wouldn't leave one three-year-old alone to take a shower let alone two one-year-olds.  Then his description of them being dressed in white, angelic and looking healthy.  Red flags are going off.  Plus, he didn't notice Kate wearing a towel.

What if the purported slipping behind the couch occurred while KM was in the shower?  It's conceivable in this very hypothetical situation, that a person coming out of the shower into a 2-bedroom apartment wouldn't necessarily go and count all her three children immediately.  If she was already that careless to let the kids watch themselves, she could easily go get dressed still without checking.  Maybe GM came back after tennis and was like, hey, where's Madeleine?  Where indeed.

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by Searcher on 02.11.13 1:24

candyfloss wrote:
@Curioser wrote:
@Searcher wrote:I am very interested in 2nd May.spin
Have you seen this? http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.com.au/p/theory-english.html
It's here as well, 88 page thread

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2588-theory?highlight=theory
Varriott - in case you havent seen it, this 2 May timeline is really worth reading.  I think it is a brilliant piece of analysis and worth keeping in the loop.  I wonder what GA would make of it - not sure but I seem to have a memory of a quote by him that refers to "3 May or before".  Can't be sure but it would certainly be interesting to know.  splat

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by Varriott on 02.11.13 3:42

@Searcher wrote:Varriott - in case you havent seen it, this 2 May timeline is really worth reading.  I think it is a brilliant piece of analysis and worth keeping in the loop.  I wonder what GA would make of it - not sure but I seem to have a memory of a quote by him that refers to "3 May or before".  Can't be sure but it would certainly be interesting to know.  splat
Wow.  I've read every word of Dr Martin Roberts at least twice.  I'm a big fan of the Blacksmith Bureau and think Pat Brown is brilliant.  But that May 2nd scenario is the first time it all fell into place.  I feel like mystery solved.  I can move on now and worry about something else.  Thanks, Searcher, for pointing it out.  My question is what's left for us to do?  Justice is out of our hands.  Someone needs to talk, and I don't see that happening.

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by DurhamGuy1967 on 02.11.13 7:23

@russiandoll wrote:well if Smithman had a phone in his trouser pocket while carrying this child in a PdL street, the cell phone analysis will be interesting !

 I still harbour thoughts that the night K slept apart from G, there had been much more fuss made of his lack of attention....there was an argument, Maddie woke up, became distressed, was ignored due to the pair being too preoccupied with one another, fell or got caught up in a fight that had become physical, Kate restrained by Gerry, Maddie caught in the crossfire, knocked over and was fatally hurt on that tiled floor.

 There is a simple, really very simple explanation for what happened to Maddie. Everything which followed is the complex stuff, the smoke and mirrors to misdirect .
 I am convinced that had there been simultaneous but separate very firm questioning by the PJ, the truth would have come out soon after the event. They were far too kind to this group with their childcare problems on 4th.....they should all have been hauled off to a couple of different police stations, not that many interview rooms needed, one in, one waits.
 There would have been no time for collusion and the case would have imo been solved very quickly.
This was the PJ's big mistake imo.
I agree. I think that's why they needed the UK media over there putting pressure on the investigation team.

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Re: Theory 'purported' by Curioser (title changed from Any Advice etc.)

Post by tigger on 02.11.13 7:26

@Varriott wrote:
@Searcher wrote:Varriott - in case you havent seen it, this 2 May timeline is really worth reading.  I think it is a brilliant piece of analysis and worth keeping in the loop.  I wonder what GA would make of it - not sure but I seem to have a memory of a quote by him that refers to "3 May or before".  Can't be sure but it would certainly be interesting to know.  splat
Wow.  I've read every word of Dr Martin Roberts at least twice.  I'm a big fan of the Blacksmith Bureau and think Pat Brown is brilliant.  But that May 2nd scenario is the first time it all fell into place.  I feel like mystery solved.  I can move on now and worry about something else.  Thanks, Searcher, for pointing it out.  My question is what's left for us to do?  Justice is out of our hands.  Someone needs to talk, and I don't see that happening.
Can you give a link to this 2nd May timeline?

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