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Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by marconi on 27.09.13 6:37

where can I find Dave Edgar hearing, please?

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by Seek truth on 27.09.13 6:42

The pro McCLiars should get done for lieing WITH them. In The Daily Jail.

Terrible terrible lies, really low class.

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by aiyoyo on 27.09.13 7:10

@Tony Bennett wrote: If there was for example a late application for Kate McCann (or Gerry McCann) to give evidence, a judge could well say something like: "I'm not going to rule on this now, but I may consider a further application at a later stage in the proceedings (depending on how the evidence goes)". Sometimes, also, a witness can be recalled, if the court thinks s/he may have something to add.

As a general rule in the British courts - and no doubt in most other well-run judicial systems - a witness must tender their evidence well in advance and in writing. To allow last-minute witnesses would clearly prejudice the other side.  

I suspect the lack of factual reporting is just shoddy journalism.  
The Newpapers may have been told Kate wasn't able to testify but not given the reason for that, and journalists just cant be arsed to find out why, so worded it any how just to come up with an article about their case.   Something just scuppered their case is likely a notion invented by the Papers.  
Unless that 'scuppered their plan' is in quotation marks I doubt its from source..


In general also, it is more likely that a defendant would be allowed to introduce extra witnesses at the last minute than a claimant/plaintiff.  

What I can't understand so far is why, given the claim that both of the McCanns are suffering from the most serious and permanent depressions, with eating disorders and insomnia, indefinable fear and other such severe emotional conditions detailed in the libel writ...why we haven't yet heard from the McCanns' G.P. nor a Consultant in Depressive Disorders or a Consultant Psychiatrist.

They would be truly suicidal if they dare come up with psychiatrist reports certifying this and that, and risk being institutionalised at worst, or at best risk losing Gerry his job, Kate her freedom to come out to spin and raise fund,  and risk losing the twins to social service.

Even if they're hell bent on destroying Amaral that they produced psychiatrist reports to support their claims, there is no measurable mean to accurately reflects that all the contributory factors to their mental and emotional health conditions were caused by Amaral's book and one documentary/

The damage was already done when they were arguidos covered so widely in the national news and news worldwide is irreparable.
 There exists already plenty of negative and skeptical of them articles/media and press reports about them. Besides there are other books written about the case that are negative about them.

If the argument that book and documentary are easily available and easier to sway people's opinion than files access on the internet, then the same argument should apply to Kate's bewk and documentary.
Both versions are out in the public domain, if it is perceived  (since there's no accurate gauging measure ) that general public members believed one over the other, then it's no fault of the author or producer.  Credibility of the story is down to the discerning public to decide for themselves.
The public were given informed choices so how can they possibly argue one set of opinion is any more valid than the other.

If they say Amaral's book influence people, Kate has sold more of her books than Amaral, then which leg is their argument standing on?
Is she saying contents in her bews arent believable?  That no one believes it?



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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by Seek truth on 27.09.13 7:22

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-dad-gerry-face-2307848#ixzz2g1vLq6LK

"Kate and Gerry McCann were so horrified by the comments they contacted police in the UK who launched an investigation."

So why didn't they follow it up then?
And no sorry the book was overturned.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-482027/Our-friend-Kate-McCann-perfect-mum-closest-friends-speak-out.html

Actually her rare smiles are just here;

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B7sQ3I4ESMk&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DB7sQ3I4ESMk

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by PeterMac on 27.09.13 7:28

"Dr McCann. Could you start by telling the court which door you used to enter the apartment.
Thank you.
Could you now tell the court why you lied about the other one ?
Thank you
Do you think that your initial lie might have hampered the investigation ?"


Anyone really believe he is going to give evidence under oath ?

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by aiyoyo on 27.09.13 7:48

Maybe!

He's going there to bullshit about their emotional and mental conditions, about how Amaral's book impact them badly (that they didn't have a sex life lol), and why they deserve money compensation for it.
Not unlike lowlife scumbags who react over nothing then sue for money.

His lawyer's going to make sure questions pertaining to circumstances surrounding her disappearance is not allowed in this civil libel trial citing irrelevance to case in hand.
Either he'll refuse to answer questions not to his liking, or he's going to burst a few blood vessels and storm out, or worst still he's going to put his foot in it.

Wait till the Judge gives him the MW's treatment...example:
err do you know that the Final Report is inconclusive...we don't know the nature of the crime ...
Are you ashamed of the book, more ashamed about it than when you were arguido,,,why?....etc etc.
It would be interesting to see him squirm and wriggle out of that type of questions.

We will soon find out whether report is accurate or just green (Jerry Lawton) spin.

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by plebgate on 27.09.13 7:51

No I do not believe he is going to give evidence.

Last Friday's hearing did not go very well for them IMO. It might be the case that after discussion over the weekend it was decided that on Monday the request for Mr. to give evidence was submitted, so possibly only 5 days notice given. So it is possible that they are hoping that the judge will not allow him to GET IN THE WITNESS BOX, because of the "late" request. Well the judge didn't allow Mrs. to give evidence because of a late request so why would she allow Mr, but hey the newspapers will print that they wanted to give evidence.

anyone know the date of Mrs' request to give evidence? Surely it would have been more than 10 days ago now, so why not get Mrs. over there today instead of Mr?

As usual I cannot make head nor tail of it all.

I hope the judge grants him his request, I really do.

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by Guest on 27.09.13 7:53

@PeterMac wrote:"Dr McCann. Could you start by telling the court which door you used to enter the apartment.
Thank you.
Could you now tell the court why you lied about the other one ?
Thank you
Do you think that your initial lie might have hampered the investigation ?"


Anyone really believe he is going to give evidence under oath ?
I don't beleive he will step into the wtness box

snipped

“That is why Gerry is bringing his sister out with him. If he can’t give evidence, Trish will speak on behalf of Kate and Gerry.”

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/432468/Gerry-McCann-to-face-Portuguese-police-chief-over-lies-of-Madeleine-s-abduction

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by plebgate on 27.09.13 7:58

Where's Ma Healy, wasn't she due to give evidence?


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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by aiyoyo on 27.09.13 7:58

@PeterMac wrote:"Dr McCann. Could you start by telling the court which door you used to enter the apartment.
Thank you.
Could you now tell the court why you lied about the other one ?
Thank you
Do you think that your initial lie might have hampered the investigation ?"


Anyone really believe he is going to give evidence under oath ?
If ID is really desperate, Gerry may be her last card on the table, so to speak.
Losing this case has hugh, and I mean HUGH implications for them.

There is a madness to her strategy, but new strategy it is, if Gerry has to be pushed to the front line.

It would be interesting to see whether Mrs will show up together to hold his hand, or excused as having to stay home with the twins! That alone would make waves......


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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by aiyoyo on 27.09.13 8:09

@plebgate wrote:No I do not believe he is going to give evidence.

Last Friday's hearing did not go very well for them IMO.    It might be the case that after discussion over the weekend it was decided that on Monday the request for Mr. to give evidence was submitted, so possibly only 5 days notice given.    So it is possible that they are hoping that the judge will not allow him to GET IN THE WITNESS BOX, because of the "late" request.  Well the judge didn't allow Mrs. to give evidence because of a late request so why would she allow Mr, but hey the newspapers will print that they wanted to give evidence.

anyone know the date of Mrs' request to give evidence?   Surely it would have been more than 10 days ago now, so why not get Mrs. over there today instead of Mr?

As usual I cannot make head nor tail of it all.

I hope the judge grants him his request, I really do.
It could well be a case of spin that the Judge scuppered Mr's wish to give evidence too...

But I would imagine although both Kate & Gerry did not intend to stand a witness originally, but possibly later advised by ID to do so, when their witnesses performed poorly.
Maybe Kate was never filed as witness, but Gerry was a last minute submission, because the report states he's awaiting Court's approval, suggesting a submission has been made. Who knows? Wait and see.


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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by Guest on 27.09.13 8:11

@plebgate wrote:Where's Ma Healy, wasn't she due to give evidence?

snipped from Express

Mrs Healy was unable to give evidence when the case was held up by a personal emergency for the judge.

So she hasn't had her day in court!

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by plebgate on 27.09.13 8:20

@aiyoyo wrote:
@plebgate wrote:No I do not believe he is going to give evidence.

Last Friday's hearing did not go very well for them IMO.    It might be the case that after discussion over the weekend it was decided that on Monday the request for Mr. to give evidence was submitted, so possibly only 5 days notice given.    So it is possible that they are hoping that the judge will not allow him to GET IN THE WITNESS BOX, because of the "late" request.  Well the judge didn't allow Mrs. to give evidence because of a late request so why would she allow Mr, but hey the newspapers will print that they wanted to give evidence.

anyone know the date of Mrs' request to give evidence?   Surely it would have been more than 10 days ago now, so why not get Mrs. over there today instead of Mr?

As usual I cannot make head nor tail of it all.

I hope the judge grants him his request, I really do.
It could well be a case of spin that the Judge scuppered Mr's wish to give evidence too...

But I would imagine although both Kate & Gerry did not intend to stand a witness originally, but possibly later advised by ID to do so, when their witnesses performed poorly.
Maybe Kate was never filed as witness, but Gerry was a last minute submission, because the report states he's awaiting Court's approval, suggesting a submission has been made.  Who knows?    Wait and see.

I think Mrs. must have filed to be a witness. The Portugese read the online newspapers, if she had not filed and the courts are informed that false info. is being peddled in UK newspapers then IMO the judge will certainly not be amused.

Yet again it appears they are taking no notice of SY advice not to attend the trial because it might cause a media circus.

Any sign of Pinky over there trying to rescue stray dogs?

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by aiyoyo on 27.09.13 9:08

Cherry Blossom wrote:
@plebgate wrote:Where's Ma Healy, wasn't she due to give evidence?

snipped from Express

Mrs Healy was unable to give evidence when the case was held up by a personal emergency for the judge.

So she hasn't had her day in court!
So now the Judge is blame for depriving her of her day in Court ! Isnt it just.......!

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by aiyoyo on 27.09.13 9:16

@plebgate wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@plebgate wrote:No I do not believe he is going to give evidence.

Last Friday's hearing did not go very well for them IMO.    It might be the case that after discussion over the weekend it was decided that on Monday the request for Mr. to give evidence was submitted, so possibly only 5 days notice given.    So it is possible that they are hoping that the judge will not allow him to GET IN THE WITNESS BOX, because of the "late" request.  Well the judge didn't allow Mrs. to give evidence because of a late request so why would she allow Mr, but hey the newspapers will print that they wanted to give evidence.

anyone know the date of Mrs' request to give evidence?   Surely it would have been more than 10 days ago now, so why not get Mrs. over there today instead of Mr?

As usual I cannot make head nor tail of it all.

I hope the judge grants him his request, I really do.
It could well be a case of spin that the Judge scuppered Mr's wish to give evidence too...

But I would imagine although both Kate & Gerry did not intend to stand a witness originally, but possibly later advised by ID to do so, when their witnesses performed poorly.
Maybe Kate was never filed as witness, but Gerry was a last minute submission, because the report states he's awaiting Court's approval, suggesting a submission has been made.  Who knows?    Wait and see.

I think Mrs. must have filed to be a witness.   The Portugese read the online newspapers, if she had not filed and the courts are informed that false info. is being peddled in UK newspapers then IMO the judge will certainly not be amused.

Yet again it appears they are taking no notice of SY advice not to attend the trial because it might cause a media circus.

Any sign of Pinky over there trying to rescue stray dogs?
If she'd been filed and rejected, a legal reason would have to be given.

Even dim wit knows not to take news articles at face value. Judge does not consider as evidence news articles, reports, hearsay, or what not.

Only evidence put before Court is under judgement, nothing else.

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by Guest on 27.09.13 9:21

I don't believe that either Kate or Gerry have formally requested to be witnesses any more than they begged the PJ to reopen the case.

However, since it is in the newpapers, perhaps the defence lawyers could ask the judge to give both McCanns a special dispensation to testify to ensure that not only is justice done but that it is seen to be done.

If Mr Amaral is a fair and honourable man, this would be the fair and honourable thing to do yes

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by aiyoyo on 27.09.13 9:21

One pertinent point might be - who has to approve the Gerry as witness? Judge or Defense side, or both have to agree?

Tricky one or not so tricky under the revised law I don't know.

But if Gerry can testify surely so can Amaral!

Interesting times ahead anyway........

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by Guest on 27.09.13 9:31

So is Martin Brunt hotfooting it in to PDL today....


martinbrunt ‏@skymartinbrunt
#madeleine Gerry McCann expected to ask judge to let him give evidence in libel trial against ex-cop Goncalo Amaral in Lisbon today.


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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by cass7 on 27.09.13 9:32

sorry not posted for a while - i do keep up - now is the ideal time for the mcanns to ask for the case to be reopened - they will have it from them both kate and gerry in portugal - their lawyers etc maybe sy is there too - never has there been a ideal time for them - or indeed portugal to make a announcement the case is to be reopened - doesnt everyone in the world want this ?

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by Guest on 27.09.13 9:36

UK Justice Forum @Justice_forum 1h
#McCann v Gonçalo #Amaral libel case. Evidence of Destak editor Isabel Stilwell from trial in Lisbon. Download pdf > http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2334.msg77981#msg77981 …



UK Justice Forum @Justice_forum 37m
@Dantew28 ...indeed, the judge wasn't taking any prisoners and no more crap from Stilwell. #mccann

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by aiyoyo on 27.09.13 9:38

candyfloss wrote:So is Martin Brunt hotfooting it in to PDL today....


martinbrunt ‏@skymartinbrunt  
#madeleine Gerry McCann expected to ask judge to let him give evidence in libel trial against ex-cop Goncalo Amaral in Lisbon today.


Expected to ask?

So earlier reports that he hopes to give evidence is just a load of tosh then!

Last minute request cant be entertained, surely any dim wit knows that, or any tom dick and harry can walk in from the street and expect to be allowed to testify


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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by Angelique on 27.09.13 9:39

But if this is true and Gerry will give evidence, assuming this is not just spinning for effect, isn't this what GA wanted Gerry and Kate in the witness box?

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by Guest on 27.09.13 9:42

@cass7 wrote:sorry not posted for a while - i do keep up - now is the ideal time for the mcanns to ask for the case to be reopened - they will have it from them both kate and gerry in portugal - their lawyers etc maybe sy is there too - never has there been a ideal time for them - or indeed portugal to make a announcement the case is to be reopened - doesnt everyone in the world want this ?
Perhaps the PJ & SY could reopen it anyway as a special surprise for Kate and Gerry.

They could gatecrash a McCann press conference to break the good news. Oh I can see it now ...Kate's look of euphoria and Gerry's tears of joy big grin

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by PeterMac on 27.09.13 9:51

This is from the book, referring to 4th May.
During the morning, only Madeleine's father, Matthew Oldfield and Jane Tanner are
interviewed. However, already contradictions and improbabilities are appearing
from one to another of the statements, notably concerning access to the
apartment.
An example: during the course of the evening, Jane encountered Gerald McCann
and Jeremiah busy chatting in the street. At that time, Gerald was coming back
from his apartment, where he had gone to make sure the children were sound
asleep - which he confirmed in his statement. Jane asserts that she noticed a
suspicious individual carrying a child in his arms - probably Madeleine, according
to her - immediately after having passed the two men. Gerald and Jeremiah
should also have seen her, but that was not the case.
The mother of the missing little girl, Kate Healy, and all the other members of the
group, David Payne and his wife Fiona, Rachael Mampilly, Russell O'Brien and
Diane Webster, are heard later. They might already be aware of the questions put
to their friends and of their responses. In that case, there won't be the element of
surprise. The presence of an interpreter doesn't make the interviews any easier
either. The witnesses benefit from the translation time to prepare their responses.
Madeleine's parents are insisting on the theory of abduction. They want to convince
us of it at all costs. Gerald stresses that the front door was locked; Kate states that
she entered the apartment through the rear sliding doors, which weren't locked,
and that the window was wide open with the shutters raised.
This theory does not hold water, which will be observed during other interviews.
. . .
If, as Kate states, the window was open when she went into the apartment, how
come Matthew didn't notice? At the time when the latter went in, Jane had already
seen the alleged abductor with the child. So, logically, if the crime had already
been committed, the window should have been open.

Matthew says that the bedroom door was half open, Kate that it was wide open. It
can be concluded that Madeleine was already no longer in the room - which
Matthew should have noticed, if the other witness statements are to be believed.

So , Dr Mccann, mc-can you explain ?

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Re: Gerry McCann may be witness at libel trial tomorrow - Jerry Lawton **UPDATE** TRIAL ABANDONED FOR TODAY

Post by aiyoyo on 27.09.13 9:52

@Angelique wrote:But if this is true and Gerry will give evidence, assuming this is not just spinning for effect, isn't this what GA wanted Gerry and Kate in the witness box?
Boy , you got me excited....

But the Judge will have control of her court...judging by how she reined in barking Destak editor Isabel Stilwell (her testimony I've posted on the libel thread).

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