LIBEL TRIAL DISCUSSION HERE

marconi wrote:It is very well possible that Amaral wants to tell something the world still does not know.

 I agree,if he had not been taken of the case the mccanns would be in nick now

PAT BROWN ‏@ProfilerPatB 7m
Libel is about lying, not expressing theories. Since Kate #McCann state she is challenging Amaral's theories, not lies, she has no case.

Someone posted re Matthew Wright a few pages back. I also heard the entire discussion, brief as it was. Thank God for an unbiased opinion on what is happening.

 The intro was by Louis Spence, very camp dancer and now reality tv star. A brief intro.....

   LS  : the Portuguese detective wrote a book, it really had the McCanns in a bad light in Portugal. He said they were drunk, crazy and she has now gone out there with a libel case.

 MW  :  She's suing him for a million pounds. Part of me understands, there's another part of me that feels ever so slightly uncomfortable about it.[ asked why]  Because it seems to be more about their good name than it does about finding their daughter, but if I'd had lies written about me, I'd probably be doing exactly the same.
LS  :   But what more can they do ?

MW  : If they are indeed lies, I don't know, that's the dispute......

LS  : They have done everything they can to find their daughter and this is what happens out there...it's been such a long time.

 MW : But libel trials and God knows I know a bit about them from my time in newspapers, nobody ever comes out smelling of roses

 FEMALE PANELLIST : But what right has he got to put that family through that by doing that with a bad name?[ no I can barely understand her English either]

MW : Because he is entitled to an opinion and they are entitled to challenge it.

FEMALE : They are and they are the ones that have lost a child at the end of the day and I don't think anyone is entitled to judge them.


MW  : But we're all judging the copper. [ background of panel voices, yes we are.. ] I would like to say we shouldn't judge either and let the court decide.
 

FEMALE : Good point.

jeanmonroe wrote:

Angelique wrote:sharonl

I think there will be a psychologist  or some such was listed as a witness.

I wonder if the Mcs will be calling this EXPERT to give 'evidence'

GRACE: "What`s interesting about it, Marc Klaas....they thought one of them going back every 30 minutes to check on the children would suffice".

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Whoops, Nancy. They made a critical mistake there. You should never leave young children unattended. And in fact, I know it`s against the law to leave very young children unattended. (In California)

IT IS ALSO AGAINST THE LAW IN PORTUGAL!

WHOOPS, Nancy!
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION:

"You should NEVER leave young children UNATTENDED"

I remember asking in the beginning of people who lived or visted there if this resort, like almost all hotels and resorts over the world, had signs up that said "don't leave your kids unattended", and there was.
Maybe it should have said "don't leave your kids unattended" you too, Tapas bunch!

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Cristobell, I say definitely yes, that's Trisha Cameron.

Perhaps she is there to protect Gerry's interests when it all goes belly up.

Russiandoll, you're a star  

Thanks a lot for the Wright Stuff transcript  

Cristobell wrote:I will be interested to see the evidence of a child psychologist who recommends parents tell their very young children that their older sibling was stolen by a monster but she is still able to send them birthday cards and presents.

I'll be interested too in what he has to say.

The McCanns finally tell their twins Madeleine is missing

17 August 2007
By FIONA BARTON in Praia da Luz - [url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/dmsearch/overture.html?in_page_id=711&in_overture_ua=cat&in_start_number=0&in_restriction=byline&in_query=fiona barton in praia da][/url]Last updated at 22:02pm on 17th August 2007

Madeleine McCann’s two-year-old twin brother and sister have finally been told the heartbreaking truth about her disappearance.
Until last week, toddlers Amelie and Sean believed four-year-old Madeleine was “on a little holiday” and would be back soon.
But their parents have now broken the news that their big sister is “missing” and “Mummy and Daddy are looking for her”.

The revelation added to growing signs that devastated Gerry and Kate McCann are planning to return home to Britain soon, perhaps as early as next month.

The traumatic task of telling the twins was undertaken on the advice of a child psychologist who recently flew out to the Algarve to help Kate and Gerry McCann choose the right words to explain Madeleine’s continued absence, without frightening the twins.

A family friend said: “Kate and Gerry have taken the advice of child and trauma experts and have now told the twins that Madeleine is missing and Mummy and Daddy are looking for her.

“At the start they used to tell the children that Madeleine had gone on a little holiday but as time has gone on they have changed the language they use.
“At their age the twins understand the concept of ‘missing’ like a favourite toy they can’t find – but they know it is much more serious because it is their sister and they miss her.”

Yesterday, Kate and Gerry McCann made their familiar pilgrimage to the resort’s tiny whitewashed church to pray for their daughter’s safe return. The twins stayed at the family’s rented villa with visiting relatives.

The young children’s routine was disrupted last week when the McCanns were asked to keep their children away from the Mark Warner-run creche because increasing media attention around the 100th day anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance was “spoiling” other children’s fun. Now things have calmed down in the small town, Sean and Amelie have been invited back.

The McCanns say their children believe they are on one long holiday but the twins talk about their big sister frequently and with a “heartbreaking innocence”.
In a recent interview, Kate McCann told how she is often caught unawares by one of their remarks.
The 39-year-old locum GP said : “When we went back to the UK for a family baptism there was an empty seat on the plane and Sean said, ‘That’s Madeleine’s seat.’ That caught me.

“It was a very emotional day. Amelie asked me afterwards, ‘Where’s Madeleine? I miss my sister’. It catches me.”

The McCanns are now talking for the first time about ending their vigil in Praia da Luz and returning home to Rothley in Leicestershire.

The couple have extended the lease on their rented house, but only for a month, and some friends expect them to come home by the end of September.

Kate said earlier this week: “We know we will be going back and I guess one day we will wake up and it will be right. We never thought we would go before she came back. Now we just don’t know but we have the twins to consider.

“I can’t imagine how we came out as a family of five and going back as a four.”

It is thought breaking the news of the hunt for Madeleine is part of preparing the twins for big changes ahead.

The McCanns asked for expert help in answering their younger children’s questions and a British psychologist, who specialises in children under five years old, flew out to the Algarve to see the family.

A family friend said: “They are very mindful and careful not to upset them, and that is why they have taken advice on what is appropriate to say to two-and-a-half year olds and how to approach such a delicate and traumatic issue.

“It was to talk about the future and the psychologist spent some time with the twins. They are doing very well in all the normal things like potty training and learning new words.

“Kate and Gerry have always been very open with their children and the reason they got expert advice was because they wanted to do the best thing for the twins.”

Sean and Amelie, who like Madeleine were born through IVF, have been encouraged to talk about their sister and often refer to Cuddle Cat being Madeleine’s.

“They pick things up that they recognise as being Madeleine’s.

“The children have always been very close and the twins were so excited when came on holiday because they got to share a bedroom with Madeleine. They were excited every night when they went to bed.”

Detectives say the two children slept throughout the unexplained disappearance of their big sister on May 3.

http://truthofthelie.com/2007/08/the-mccanns-finally-tell-their-twins-madeleine-is-missing/

They obviously havn't followed the Child Pyschologist's advice, have they?

How DEVASTATED will Madeleine be, if she ever gets to READ this?

"It may sound odd, but in some ways we were glad the investigation had been closed. As I've said, we were far from convinced that there was any real investigation taking place anyway, so to have it officially brought to an end didn't feel like as big a loss as might have been expected."

Yes Kate, very ODD indeed that you WERE glad and you didn't feel it would be such a big LOSS when the investigation into your first born child's 'disapperance' was CLOSED.

KM Page 317 'madeleine' (bewk 1)

Pity KM didn't see fit to CLOSE her and Gerry's private Ltd 'fund' at the same time.

Now THAT would have been a really big LOSS, to her and the wider family, wouldn't it?

So, to sum up, she was GLAD investigation was CLOSED, but SUPER GLAD  that people could still keep donating to the PRIVATE Ltd Company she and Gerry had set up.

Brilliant.

Just to add: I hope Madeleine does get to read exactly what her parents 'DID' to find her. Their being GLAD that closing the investigation won't go down to well, will it?

Apparently this is in the Sun today Friday.
Publicising the exact allegations ! ! !
[img][/img]

jeanmonroe wrote:
Just to add: I hope Madeleine does get to read exactly what her parents 'DID' to find her. Their being GLAD that closing the investigation won't go down to well, will it?

Where are they going to be able to read that ?

Is there anything to which you would like to draw my attention, Holmes ?
To the curious incident of the dog in the night time .
But the dog did nothing in the night time
That was the curious incident.

http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/caso-maddie-julgamento-de-exinspector-iniciase-com-inquiricao-de-testemunhas-dos-mccann-1605668
Again Google translated with corrections by me:

" Three witnesses indicated by the McCanns were heard on Thursday at the start of the trial in civil proceedings for defamation against the former Judiciary Police inspector Gonçalo Amaral , an action brought by the parents of missing British child in the Algarve in 2007.

This information was given to Lusa news agency by Isabel Duarte , lawyer of the parents of Madeleine McCann , in the first day of trial in which the judge Maria Emilia Castro Melo determined that there was no reason for the hearing to be held in closed court , as requested by Gonçalo Amaral , who was present as a defendant in the Civil Court of Lisbon.

After previously , the parties didn't reached an out of court settlement in the civil action , in which the parents of Madeleine McCann demanded a compensation of EUR 1.2 million for alleged defamation from the former PJ inspector ( who investigated the disappearance of the child ) , the trial began with the examination of three witnesses - a Canadian and two British -" friends " of the McCanns .

In this first session , the judge had to adapt the trial rules of the new Code of Civil Procedure , legislative reform that entered in action on September 1 .

The trial continues on Friday with the examination of five witnesses named by the parents of Madeleine , three of which are familiar to the McCanns .

Speaking to Lusa , Isabel Duarte said that since the beginning, the McCanns have always been open to a court settlement with Gonçalo Amaral , but it was not possible to reach an agreement with the defendant .

She stressed , however, that the main objective of the McCanns was that the investigation into the disappearance of the child was resumed , which , she said, has now taken place , without any further details or other clues .

In a related case , 7 . Th Civil Court of Lisbon decided in January 2010 to keep the ban on the marketing of the book Maddie : The Truth of the Lie , written by Goncalo Amaral , and video with the same title , based a documentary aired on TVI .

The banning of the book and the video, which presents the thesis of Gonçalo Amaral involvement of Kate and Gerry McCann in the disappearance of their daughter with the concealment of the corpse had been provisionally agreed,  September 9, 2009 .

On 19 October 2010, the Lisbon Court of Appeal annulled the decision of 7 . Civil Court , after which the McCanns appealed to the Supreme Court of Justice ( STJ ) . In its judgment of 18 March 2011 , the Supreme Court of Appeal upheld the decision .

Madeleine McCann disappeared on May 3, 2007 , in an apartment of a tourist resort in Praia da Luz in the Algarve , where she was on holiday with her parents and twin brothers .

At the time of the disappearance , Goncalo Amaral was the coordinator of the Criminal Investigation Department of the Judicial Police of Portimão .

Kate and Gerry McCann , who always claimed that the child was abducted , were made defendants (arguidos ) in September 2007 . The case was dropped for lack of evidence , in July 2008 , although prosecutors admit reopening if new data emerge about the child's disappearance ."

PeterMac wrote:Apparently this is in the Sun today Friday.
Publicising the exact allegations ! ! !
" />

And, despite the foaming-at-the-mouth headline, appearing to do so in a largely calm, matter of fact, and basically digestible way that Sun readers may not have been privvy to before...

Not a word from the court today. Has there been an order from on high to cease reporting?

tasprin wrote:Not a word the court today. Has there been an order from on high to cease reporting?

perhaps brunty,s been abducted or as you say or an order from high,spect Gerry has had a word after yesterdays witnesses

tasprin wrote:Not a word from the court today. Has there been an order from on high to cease reporting?

Something seriously strange going on.  Yesterday we had pics and videos coming and goings, stories in the papers etc, plus the tweets from Brunty and appearances on Sky news almost every hour.  Today, things are on lockdown.....not a peep from anywhere.  Wonder why that is.  There would have been a break for lunch, where he could have updated people, yet nada.  Are things not going so well? 
Or perhaps he ate some bad seabass last night and is poorly today

Or perhaps TM -having been taken to the cleaners by mother Hubbard cum suis- finally understood the wisdom of having the case heard behind closed doors after all?

candyfloss wrote:

tasprin wrote:Not a word from the court today. Has there been an order from on high to cease reporting?

Something seriously strange going on.  Yesterday we had pics and videos coming and goings, stories in the papers etc, plus the tweets from Brunty and appearances on Sky news almost every hour.  Today, things are on lockdown.....not a peep from anywhere.  Wonder why that is.  There would have been a break for lunch, where he could have updated people, yet nada.  Are things not going so well? 
Or perhaps he ate some bad seabass last night and is poorly today

Very strange indeed.

Perhaps they're superstitious and everyone decided it's best not to go.
Perhaps KM's been arrested
Perhaps GM's been arrested
Perhaps Martin Brunt's arrested

tasprin wrote:

candyfloss wrote:

tasprin wrote:Not a word from the court today. Has there been an order from on high to cease reporting?

Something seriously strange going on.  Yesterday we had pics and videos coming and goings, stories in the papers etc, plus the tweets from Brunty and appearances on Sky news almost every hour.  Today, things are on lockdown.....not a peep from anywhere.  Wonder why that is.  There would have been a break for lunch, where he could have updated people, yet nada.  Are things not going so well? 
Or perhaps he ate some bad seabass last night and is poorly today

Very strange indeed.

Perhaps they're superstitious and everyone decided it's best not to go.
Perhaps KM's been arrested
Perhaps GM's been arrested
Perhaps Martin Brunt's arrested

 Now, that's really funny!

please delete in nessessary
,but there is someone from the Justic forum there and she is there today,this is what she wrote yesterday.




 The atmosphere was rather cool in the court room today. Mrs Duarte was exceptionally calm and pondered. She not once said "abduction" and speaking about the effect of the book on the McCanns always added "if any".
The interpreter is British (living in Lx) and told me she had been contacted by the tribunal a few days ago.
Generally speaking nobody knows much about the files and some journalists just know what they've read in their newspapers.
Some posters here know much better. Many mistakes were said without anyone protesting.
About 3/4 of an hour were lost because Ms Loach couldn't remember when her documentary had been broadcast in PT and the TVI lawyer had another title !
All the sessions are taped.
I'll be there to-morrow. Too tired to send my notes to-night.
But I sent John some pics.

The chap with the beard, is he the one from the Portuguese PR Firm?  Definitely Susan Healey on this one.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id232.html

Ayniia wrote:http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/caso-maddie-julgamento-de-exinspector-iniciase-com-inquiricao-de-testemunhas-dos-mccann-1605668
Again Google translated with corrections by me:

" Three witnesses indicated by the McCanns were heard on Thursday at the start of the trial in civil proceedings for defamation against the former Judiciary Police inspector Gonçalo Amaral , an action brought by the parents of missing British child in the Algarve in 2007.

This information was given to Lusa news agency by Isabel Duarte , lawyer of the parents of Madeleine McCann , in the first day of trial in which the judge Maria Emilia Castro Melo determined that there was no reason for the hearing to be held in closed court , as requested by Gonçalo Amaral , who was present as a defendant in the Civil Court of Lisbon.

After previously , the parties didn't reached an out of court settlement in the civil action , in which the parents of Madeleine McCann demanded a compensation of EUR 1.2 million for alleged defamation from the former PJ inspector ( who investigated the disappearance of the child ) , the trial began with the examination of three witnesses - a Canadian and two British -" friends " of the McCanns .

In this first session , the judge had to adapt the trial rules of the new Code of Civil Procedure , legislative reform that entered in action on September 1 .

The trial continues on Friday with the examination of five witnesses named by the parents of Madeleine , three of which are familiar to the McCanns .

Speaking to Lusa , Isabel Duarte said that since the beginning, the McCanns have always been open to a court settlement with Gonçalo Amaral , but it was not possible to reach an agreement with the defendant .

She stressed , however, that the main objective of the McCanns was that the investigation into the disappearance of the child was resumed , which , she said, has now taken place , without any further details or other clues .

In a related case , 7 . Th Civil Court of Lisbon decided in January 2010 to keep the ban on the marketing of the book Maddie : The Truth of the Lie , written by Goncalo Amaral , and video with the same title , based a documentary aired on TVI .

The banning of the book and the video, which presents the thesis of Gonçalo Amaral involvement of Kate and Gerry McCann in the disappearance of their daughter with the concealment of the corpse had been provisionally agreed,  September 9, 2009 .

On 19 October 2010, the Lisbon Court of Appeal annulled the decision of 7 . Civil Court , after which the McCanns appealed to the Supreme Court of Justice ( STJ ) . In its judgment of 18 March 2011 , the Supreme Court of Appeal upheld the decision .

Madeleine McCann disappeared on May 3, 2007 , in an apartment of a tourist resort in Praia da Luz in the Algarve , where she was on holiday with her parents and twin brothers .

At the time of the disappearance , Goncalo Amaral was the coordinator of the Criminal Investigation Department of the Judicial Police of Portimão .

Kate and Gerry McCann , who always claimed that the child was abducted , were made defendants (arguidos ) in September 2007 . The case was dropped for lack of evidence , in July 2008 , although prosecutors admit reopening if new data emerge about the child's disappearance ."

The part that caught my eye, was Isabel saying that the McCanns have always been open to settlement.  Looks like they have been bluffing all through, hoped Goncalo would just hand over the cash as others did.

tiny wrote:please delete in nessessary
,but there is someone from the Justic forum there and she is there today,this is what she wrote yesterday.




 The atmosphere was rather cool in the court room today. Mrs Duarte was exceptionally calm and pondered. She not once said "abduction" and speaking about the effect of the book on the McCanns always added "if any".
The interpreter is British (living in Lx) and told me she had been contacted by the tribunal a few days ago.
Generally speaking nobody knows much about the files and some journalists just know what they've read in their newspapers.
Some posters here know much better. Many mistakes were said without anyone protesting.
About 3/4 of an hour were lost because Ms Loach couldn't remember when her documentary had been broadcast in PT and the TVI lawyer had another title !
All the sessions are taped.
I'll be there to-morrow. Too tired to send my notes to-night.
But I sent John some pics.

That could well be the most expensive "If any" ever!

Very odd for an attorney of a claimant to let that slip, apparently repeatedly: "always"

Why? 

Is Textusa right, and were the McCs set up after all?
The whole court case seems very sinister, IMO

My take on the silence, is that something sensitive to the [ ongoing investigation !!} may have been said, or was about to be said , and it has been deemed necessary to close proceedings to the public .

  What is NOT being said is more interesting at the moment .

stillsloppingout wrote:My take on the silence, is that something sensitive to the [ ongoing investigation !!} may have been said, or was about to be said , and it has been deemed necessary to close proceedings to the public .

  What is NOT being said is more interesting at the moment .

But if that was the case, then Martin Brunt could have tweeted that he was not allowed to comment on today's proceedings..........he hasn't though.  I agree the silence speaks volumes.