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Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

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Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.09.13 23:41


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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by PeterMac on 09.09.13 8:23

Why don't they look at the ice cores from Greenland, which show a cyclical pattern going back over 135,000 years, or from Antartica where the records go back at least 800,000 years, and show exactly the same. The earth is not static. Sun spot activity alone will account for may of the fluctuations. But that doesn't sell newspapers, now allow Politicians to impose taxes or make fortunes for themselves by inventing "Carbon Offset Arbitrage".

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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by Guest on 09.09.13 8:47

@PeterMac wrote:Why don't they look at the ice cores from Greenland, which show a cyclical pattern going back over 135,000 years, or from Antartica where the records go back at least 800,000 years, and show exactly the same.  The earth is not static.  Sun spot activity alone will account for may of the fluctuations.  But that doesn't sell newspapers, now allow Politicians to impose taxes or make fortunes for themselves by inventing "Carbon Offset Arbitrage".

Global warming? No, actually we're cooling, claim scientists

By Hayley Dixon
9:55AM BST 08 Sep 2013



A cold Arctic summer has led to a record increase in the ice cap, leading experts to predict a period of global cooling.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/10294082/Global-warming-No-actually-were-cooling-claim-scientists.html

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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by plebgate on 09.09.13 8:56

The BBC have lost all credibility on everything ASAIAC. They need to make a clean sweep of all the "bosses" by the looks of things and get on with the job they are paid to, Chris Patten ex governor of Hong Kong seems to be far too big for his boots.

Lost his seat in HOC and given the job of Governor of Hong Kong, Yeah sounds about right for good old UK. Sickening lot.

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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by Guest on 09.09.13 10:08

I can show the accuracy of climate research scientists. This article, with contributions from Dr David Viner a senior research scientist at the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia and David Parker from the Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research in Berkshire, appeared in the Independent (LINK) in 2000:


Snowfalls are now just a thing of the past


Britain's winter ends tomorrow with further indications of a striking environmental change: snow is starting to disappear from our lives.Sledges, snowmen, snowballs and the excitement of waking to find that the stuff has settled outside are all a rapidly diminishing part of Britain's culture, as warmer winters - which scientists are attributing to global climate change - produce not only fewer white Christmases, but fewer white Januaries and Februaries. 


The first two months of 2000 were virtually free of significant snowfall in much of lowland Britain, and December brought only moderate snowfall in the South-east. It is the continuation of a trend that has been increasingly visible in the past 15 years: in the south of England, for instance, from 1970 to 1995 snow and sleet fell for an average of 3.7 days, while from 1988 to 1995 the average was 0.7 days. London's last substantial snowfall was in February 1991.


Global warming, the heating of the atmosphere by increased amounts of industrial gases, is now accepted as a reality by the international community. Average temperatures in Britain were nearly 0.6°C higher in the Nineties than in 1960-90, and it is estimated that they will increase by 0.2C every decade over the coming century. Eight of the 10 hottest years on record occurred in the Nineties.


However, the warming is so far manifesting itself more in winters which are less cold than in much hotter summers. According to Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia,within a few years winter snowfall will become "a very rare and exciting event".


"Children just aren't going to know what snow is," he said.


The effects of snow-free winter in Britain are already becoming apparent. This year, for the first time ever, Hamleys, Britain's biggest toyshop, had no sledges on display in its Regent Street store. "It was a bit of a first," a spokesperson said.


Fen skating, once a popular sport on the fields of East Anglia, now takes place on indoor artificial rinks. Malcolm Robinson, of the Fenland Indoor Speed Skating Club in Peterborough, says they have not skated outside since 1997. "As a boy, I can remember being on ice most winters. Now it's few and far between," he said.


Michael Jeacock, a Cambridgeshire local historian, added that a generation was growing up "without experiencing one of the greatest joys and privileges of living in this part of the world - open-air skating".


Warmer winters have significant environmental and economic implications, and a wide range of research indicates that pests and plant diseases, usually killed back by sharp frosts, are likely to flourish. But very little research has been done on the cultural implications of climate change - into the possibility, for example, that our notion of Christmas might have to shift.


Professor Jarich Oosten, an anthropologist at the University of Leiden in the Netherlands, says that even if we no longer see snow, it will remain culturally important.


"We don't really have wolves in Europe any more, but they are still an important part of our culture and everyone knows what they look like," he said.
David Parker, at the Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research in Berkshire, says ultimately, British children could have only virtual experience of snow. Via the internet, they might wonder at polar scenes - or eventually "feel" virtual cold.


Heavy snow will return occasionally, says Dr Viner, but when it does we will be unprepared. "We're really going to get caught out. Snow will probably cause chaos in 20 years time," he said.


The chances are certainly now stacked against the sort of heavy snowfall in cities that inspired Impressionist painters, such as Sisley, and the 19th century poet laureate Robert Bridges, who wrote in "London Snow" of it, "stealthily and perpetually settling and loosely lying".
Not any more, it seems.

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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by PeterMac on 09.09.13 10:25

And now wind forward 13 years.

Widespread snow January 2013
A snowy spell of weather affected most the UK from 14 to 26 January 2013.
This period brought the most widespread and prolonged snowfall in the UK since November and December 2010 and led to travel disruption and school closures across many parts of the country. All areas, apart from the far southwest of England, were affected.
Meteorological situation
Snow affected eastern Scotland and the north and east England on the 14 and 15 January 2013. 10 cm was recorded in places. A cold few days followed and temperatures as low as -13.1 °C were recorded at Marham in Norfolk on 16 January.
On the 18 January a series of Atlantic weather fronts attempted to introduce milder air to the UK. With high pressure centred over Scandinavia, cold air from the east had been affecting the UK.
With these fronts encountering such cold air, the precipitation fell as snow.
Another fall of snow affected southwest England and south Wales on the 22 and 23 January as mild Atlantic air battled with the existing cold air. A final period of snow affected the Midlands northwards on the 25 and 26 January. A further 20 cm fell in places. The snow eventually turned to rain on 26 January with milder southwesterly winds finally becoming established across the UK.
Unsurprisingly, there were low temperatures during this period. Day time temperatures reached 1 or 2 °C at best and overnight temperatures were typically in the range -2 to -5 °C.
On 17 January our web pages were viewed over four million times, roughly four times more than normal. People were able to plan, prepare and protect themselves from the impacts of the snow, ice and cold. Our social content was viewed by the Scottish Government, Heathrow Airport and the Highways Agency to name just a few.
Impacts
The disruption caused across the UK was significant. The transport network was badly affected right across the UK.
In Northern Ireland the snow which fell on 21 January led to many motorists been stuck in their cars for many hours. Some vehicles were abandoned and there were several crashes. Numerous buses were cancelled and the M1 had to be closed for a time.
Many trains were either cancelled or severely delayed right across the UK. Heathrow airport had to cancel hundreds of flights during the wintry period. Some of the delays were due to poor visibility rather than amounts of lying snow.
Thousands of schools were closed. It's estimated that on 21 January roughly 5,000 schools were closed across the UK.
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/education/teens/case-studies/widespread-snow-2013

Brilliant predictions, Professor
Along the lines of
A rocket will never be able to leave the Earth's atmosphere. - The New York Times, January 13, 1920.
What can be more palpably absurd than the prospect held out of locomotives traveling twice as fast as stagecoaches? - The Quarterly Review, March, 1825
That the automobile has practically reached the limit of its development is suggested by the fact that during the past year no improvements of a radical nature have been introduced.
Scientific American, January 2, 1909.
There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. - Steve Ballmer, USA Today, April 30, 2007.
When the Paris Exhibition closes, electric light will close with it and no more will be heard of it”. - Sir William James Erasmus Wilson, a British physician and a professor at Oxford University


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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by Guest on 09.09.13 10:37

@PeterMac wrote: [...]
A rocket will never be able to leave the Earth's atmosphere.  - The New York Times, January 13, 1920.
What can be more palpably absurd than the prospect held out of locomotives traveling twice as fast as stagecoaches? -  The Quarterly Review, March, 1825
That the automobile has practically reached the limit of its development is suggested by the fact that during the past year no improvements of a radical nature have been introduced.
Scientific American, January 2, 1909.
There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. - Steve Ballmer, USA Today, April 30, 2007.
When the Paris Exhibition closes, electric light will close with it and no more will be heard of it”. -  Sir William James Erasmus Wilson, a British physician and a professor at Oxford University

***
Brilliant big grin

You may include Châtelaine 2009: iPad will never sell; it's too big and too small at the same time sad 
For compensation Châtelaine 1995: Philips' CDI will not sell, CDR will. smilie

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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by plebgate on 09.09.13 10:42

When are they going to start taking £300 per year off our energy bills, seeing as they don't know their backsides from their elbows?

edited to change wording 1st sentence. Oh er, having a bad morning re. posts.titter 

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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by bobbin on 09.09.13 10:51

All Hail, the politicians, Job Done.
They will now take this embarrassing little snippet of news and PR it in reverse.

…quote… from a reliable political source who told the mother-in-law of one of our former reporters ….

“actually, our latest strategy has been very successful”… “we’ve single-handedly managed to profit from the increase in carbon dioxide production, caused by humans, which by good fortune, enabled many more trees to grow, which consumed the excess production of carbon dioxide, and reversed the threat of ‘global warming’ to one now of ‘global cooling’.”
....“ we will now be introducing a ‘heating tax’ to recoup the funds lost from global warming tax, keeping our tax revenues in balance”.
the quote continued.....“we can furthermore improve upon our forecast trend by reducing the number of humans who created the carbon dioxide increase in the first place, and avoid future global warming risks”.
….“we have managed to encourage a huge number of farmers to commit suicide because the GMO seed that we exclusively sell them has enabled the proliferation of super resistant weeds, low yields and subsequent loss of farming viability”.
….“this means that the global population is diminishing as the farmers disappear in their anticipated droves, their families and dependents are dying of starvation because their income earner has passed on, and we fully expect a sharp fall in population numbers as all of the people who were anticipating a future food supply from general farming activity will shortly starve to death.”
Our reliable political source enthusiastically revealed the future political agenda ....
....“to ensure our plans for population carbon dioxide reduction continue in the correct vein, we have also developed some novel pesticides to eliminate the pestilent bees that continually fertilise crops, enabling them to proliferate and keep too many people alive”.
“by eliminating the bees" he further elucidated, "we expect a serious reduction in food production which should, at a stroke, both control future human population growth and reduce current numbers of carbon dioxide producers most effectively”.
....“furthermore" he added, "plans are already in place to correct the anticipated shortfall in carbon dioxide production/ relative to tree consumption requirement.”
...“we fully expect, by the end of this current session, to be felling the excess number of trees, to heat the houses (and atmospherically controlled greenhouses) of remaining politicians, who will be starting to experience the discomforts of severe bouts of freezing due to the new (and probably more realistic) forecast of increase in global cooling and its anticipated ‘ice-sheet-encroachment’ onto the land, which was once owned and inhabited by rural farmers, but which now serves as acquired land enlargement for the estates for the gentry, who have so magnanimously taken on the role of global guardianship, and to whom all of humankind should show a debt of gratitude”…………….end quote…spin 


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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by Penfold on 09.09.13 11:43

clapping  Excellent! [Move over Clarrie -your  spin credentials are being challenged!]

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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by Tony Bennett on 09.09.13 21:53

@PeterMac wrote:Why don't they look at the ice cores from Greenland, which show a cyclical pattern going back over 135,000 years, or from Antartica where the records go back at least 800,000 years, and show exactly the same.
That's an interpretation, not a fact. The very thin layers of ice found compressed deep down in ice cores have been interpreted as annual snowfalls.

But others conclude that, at lower levels each 'layer' not an annual layer but represent either a single snowfalls, or certainly, 'sub-annual' layers*.

It's agreed that there are temperature flutuations, but over what period?

If these layers are single snowfalls and not annual snowfalls, then the ice is no more than a few thousand years old.

++++++++++++++

Explained in more detail as follows:

The most scientific method is estimating how old ice sheets are is to count what are believed to be annual layers of ice accumulation down the ice core. The snow turns to ice by the pressure of subsequent annual layers squeezing out the air between the grains of snow. The snow is usually turned to ice in the Greenland Ice Sheet at about 200 feet deep. Annual layers show up quite well at the top of the ice core in a number of measured variables, such as oxygen isotope ratios, dust, various chemicals, and differences in the ice between summer and winter. It is claimed that one can count these annual layers down the core, like counting tree rings in a tree to determine its age. In this way, researchers have counted 110,000 annual layers down the GISP2 core (Greenland) and supposedly verified their chronology.

There are a number of problems with this claim of counting 110,000 annual layers, however.

Since ice compresses vertically and spreads horizontally with depth, the annual layers thin with depth. The measured variables become confused by the middle of the ice core, and the confusion is especially noticeable in the ice-age portion of the core. The annual layer method works well in the upper part of the core for a few thousand years, but it requires some major assumptions to guide the interpretation of the middle and lower parts of the core. Based on their evolutionary or uniformitarian assumptions, researchers assume that the ice sheet has been in equilibrium for millions of years. Once they make this assumption, they rely on the second and third main methods of measurement - glaciological flow models tied to reference horizons - to provide a first guess for the thickness of annual layers.

In contrast to the evolutionary or uniformitarian model, the model of a recent creation in the last few thousand years, followed by a world-wide flood and then an ice age following that flood, this alternative model predicts much thicker annual layers in the lower and middle parts of the ice core, and glaciologists measure subannual or storm layers. It is known that modern storms duplicate with similar amplitude many of the annual layer signatures. If you expect a thicker annual layer deeper in the core, these signatures will show up, while those who believe the evolutionary or uniformitarian model assume that compression and diffusion have wiped out the subannual layers. So, the paradigm determines the age of the ice sheet.



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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by whmon on 09.09.13 22:51

Perhaps this thread ought to go into the members only forum.

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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by Guest on 09.09.13 22:55

@whmon wrote:Perhaps this thread ought to go into the members only forum.
Why?

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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by whmon on 09.09.13 23:07

candyfloss wrote:
@whmon wrote:Perhaps this thread ought to go into the members only forum.
Why?
Because the pros will be having a laugh

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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by Guest on 09.09.13 23:42

@whmon wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
@whmon wrote:Perhaps this thread ought to go into the members only forum.
Why?
Because the pros will be having a laugh
Glad we are keeping them amused. big grin

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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by whmon on 09.09.13 23:44

candyfloss wrote:
@whmon wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
@whmon wrote:Perhaps this thread ought to go into the members only forum.
Why?
Because the pros will be having a laugh
Glad we are keeping them amused. big grin
And also me - I'm thankful for the laugh too!

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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by Guest on 09.09.13 23:50

 
@whmon wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
@whmon wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
@whmon wrote:Perhaps this thread ought to go into the members only forum.
Why?
Because the pros will be having a laugh
Glad we are keeping them amused. big grin
And also me - I'm thankful for the laugh too!
There you go then, whatever floats you boat big grin 

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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by Tony Bennett on 10.09.13 7:19

Here's another significant piece of evidence that the Greenland ice sheet is a few thousand years old, not hundreds of thousands of years old:

The Greenland Society of Atlanta has recently attempted to excavate a 10-foot diameter shaft in the Greenland ice pack to remove two B-17 Flying Fortresses and six P-38 Lightning fighters trapped since 1942 under an estimated 250 feet of ice for almost 50 years (Bloomberg, 1989). Aside from the fascination with salvaging several vintage aircraft for parts and movie rights, the fact that these aircraft were buried so deeply in such a short time focuses attention on the time scales used to estimate the chronologies of ice.

If the aircraft were buried under about 250 feet of ice and snow in about 50 years, this means the ice sheet has been accumulating at an average rate of five feet per year. The Greenland ice sheet averages almost 4000 feet thick. If we were to assume the ice sheet has been accumulating at this rate since its beginning, it would take less than 1000 years for it to form and the recent-creation model might seem to be vindicated.

However, this assumption does not take into account the compaction of the snow into ice as it is weighted down by the snow above. Nor have we considered the thinning of ice layers as the tremendous weight above forces the ice at lower levels squeeze out horizontally. One must also consider the average precipitation rate and actual depths of ice for different locations on the Greenland ice sheet.

When these factors are taken into account, the average annual thickness of ice at Camp Century located near the northern tip of Greenland is believed to vary from about fourteen inches near the surface to less than two inches near the bottom (Hammer, et al., 1978). If, for simplicity, we assume the average annual thickness to be the mean between the annual thickness at the top and at the bottom (about eight inches), this still gives an age of less than 6000 years for the 4000-foot-thick ice sheet to form under uniformitarian assumptions.

This is in relatively good agreement with the number of annual oscillations of ð18O currently observed in Greenland cores. Although occasional ambiguities occur, it is relatively easy to count annual layers downward from the surface through considerable depths in the Greenland ice sheet. This is possible because of the large precipitation rates in Greenland and the preservation of the annual effects.

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Re: Arctic ice grew by ***60%*** last year. The BBC said Arctic ice would disappear altogether by 2013

Post by plebgate on 11.09.13 8:14

There's enough hot air coming from Huhne, the former Energy Minister, this week to warm the planet up and save us a big wedge on our heating bills. big grin 

He's now gone and we are still paying for his beliefs, what a crazy system.

When he went it was reported that his replacement was more sceptical of global warming claims -you could have fooled me.

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