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ALISON SAUNDERS - Senior CPS lawyer who went to Portugal in April - and will become the next Director of Public Prosecutions. Her track record examined.

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Re: ALISON SAUNDERS - Senior CPS lawyer who went to Portugal in April - and will become the next Director of Public Prosecutions. Her track record examined.

Post by davel on 20.08.13 15:53

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@davel wrote:Tony...isn't the story that the earth is only 6000 years old a similar hoax
marconi has driven this thread off topic with his.her meanderings about being bored in church.

The thread is about Alison Saunders - our next Director of Public Prosecutions, and one of two top CPS lawyers who recently went at taxpayers' expense to Portugal. The expert opinion on this forum was that she and her colleague could only legally have made that trip to Portugal if they had in mind possible charges in the Madeleine McCann case against someone in the jurisdiction of Englnd and Wales. I have raised the question of whether there is anything in her record which suggests that she would be unsuitable for the job.

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:That's what creationists believe, isn't it? I wouldn't describe it as a hoax, just something that doesn't stand up to scientific evidence.
I am quite happy to debate the age of the earth, but if someone wants to debate that, could they please start a thread in the Members Lounge.

davel wrote: "Isn't the story that the earth is only 6000 years old a similar hoax"

ANSWER: NO. Very much the reverse. A good starting point is Malcolm Bowden's "The Rise of the Evolution Fraud", Sovereign Publications,ISBN 0 9506042 2 4.

The theory of evolution is arguably the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on mankind (though the Roman Catholic Church might come a close second). But evolution theory is believed by great numbers of people. The scientific evidence is wholly in favour of special creation, not evolution. Similarly, the known scientific facts speak of a very young earth, yes, around 6,000 years old; there was no 'Big Bang' 13 to 15 billion years ago. No scientific fact contradicts a young earth. Down to the Members Lounge please if you want to debate that.  

tony, it was you who ridiculed the catholic church on a forum about Maddie, I was just showing you that your beliefs are ridiculous too.


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Re: ALISON SAUNDERS - Senior CPS lawyer who went to Portugal in April - and will become the next Director of Public Prosecutions. Her track record examined.

Post by GRACEFUL1 on 20.08.13 16:31

@davel wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@davel wrote:Tony...isn't the story that the earth is only 6000 years old a similar hoax
marconi has driven this thread off topic with his.her meanderings about being bored in church.

The thread is about Alison Saunders - our next Director of Public Prosecutions, and one of two top CPS lawyers who recently went at taxpayers' expense to Portugal. The expert opinion on this forum was that she and her colleague could only legally have made that trip to Portugal if they had in mind possible charges in the Madeleine McCann case against someone in the jurisdiction of Englnd and Wales. I have raised the question of whether there is anything in her record which suggests that she would be unsuitable for the job.

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:That's what creationists believe, isn't it? I wouldn't describe it as a hoax, just something that doesn't stand up to scientific evidence.
I am quite happy to debate the age of the earth, but if someone wants to debate that, could they please start a thread in the Members Lounge.

davel wrote: "Isn't the story that the earth is only 6000 years old a similar hoax"

ANSWER: NO. Very much the reverse. A good starting point is Malcolm Bowden's "The Rise of the Evolution Fraud", Sovereign Publications,ISBN 0 9506042 2 4.

The theory of evolution is arguably the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on mankind (though the Roman Catholic Church might come a close second). But evolution theory is believed by great numbers of people. The scientific evidence is wholly in favour of special creation, not evolution. Similarly, the known scientific facts speak of a very young earth, yes, around 6,000 years old; there was no 'Big Bang' 13 to 15 billion years ago. No scientific fact contradicts a young earth. Down to the Members Lounge please if you want to debate that.  

tony, it was you who ridiculed the catholic church on a forum about Maddie, I was just showing you that your beliefs are ridiculous too.

Whatever happened to freedom of speech and freedom to verbally express one's views - those were Tony's views just like yours whoever you are - are yours! Why should you be surprised at someone else's views surely that's their business....Now on with the topic please!

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Re: ALISON SAUNDERS - Senior CPS lawyer who went to Portugal in April - and will become the next Director of Public Prosecutions. Her track record examined.

Post by Tony Bennett on 20.08.13 17:30

Let me try and rescue this topic by setting out the following matters of concern:

1. Alsion Saunders has been appointed to be the Head of the Crown Proecution Service. She will shortly be placed in overall charge of who should be prosecuted, and who should not

2. She is part of a top management team that is responsible for a culture of bullying within the CPS, which has the lowest staff morale by some margin of any of dozens of civil service departments

3. One of the biggest police corruption and injustice scandals of the last 100 years or more was the 23-year cover-up of police incompetence in the Hillsborough tragedy. Her record is that she failed to heed the evidence of one of the victim's families (Keith Williams IIRC), in relation to an inquest on the boy's death. Furthermore, many other of the victim's families are severely critical of her role in the whole matter, and have queried her appointment. Not olnly that, but AFAIK she has failed to admit or apologise for her serious error

4. Without much doubt the biggest recent police corruption scandal of all, certainly in the last three decades, is the continuing cover-up of the murder of Daniel Morgan in 1987. It is agreed by all that this is a case of serious police corruption. After SIX police reviews of the case, covering 22 years, eventually, four years ago, the police were able to charge 3 men. At least two of these men had connections with Andy Coulson, former News of the World Editor, who is now facing criminal proceedings, and was David Cameron's Director of Communications (with Clarence Mitchell as his deputy). It was Alison Saunders who recommended that the charges against these 3 men be dropped. His brother, Alastair Morgan, who has fought for justice for his brother for 26 years, had his hopes - of seeing justice delivered at last - dashed by Saunders.

Against the above background...

Saunders and a colleague went to Portugal in April this year, in connection with the reported disappearance of Madeleine McCann. Four months on, nobody really knows the real purpsoe of that visit

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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: ALISON SAUNDERS - Senior CPS lawyer who went to Portugal in April - and will become the next Director of Public Prosecutions. Her track record examined.

Post by Guest on 20.08.13 19:32

With all due respect, Tony, I think it's actually comforting that CPS doesn't "tell" us exactly what they're doing ... if you get my drift.

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Re: ALISON SAUNDERS - Senior CPS lawyer who went to Portugal in April - and will become the next Director of Public Prosecutions. Her track record examined.

Post by Tony Bennett on 20.08.13 19:54

Châtelaine wrote:With all due respect, Tony, I think it's actually comforting that CPS doesn't "tell" us exactly what they're doing ... if you get my drift.
You may be right. I am just saying that it is hard for us to work out what the real purpose of that visit was. Time wil probably tell us, in the end...

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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: ALISON SAUNDERS - Senior CPS lawyer who went to Portugal in April - and will become the next Director of Public Prosecutions. Her track record examined.

Post by Guest on 20.08.13 20:10

If I understand UK law and practice correctly, the CPS will step in at an advanced stage to see if there's any prospect of successful prosecution. They will, again if I understand correctly, indicate what kind of other [firm] evidence they need to proceed. The mere fact THAT they went to Portugal and then the SY review turned into an investigation cannot but give me hopes that something concrete may be on its way. Again: if you get my drift yes

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Re: ALISON SAUNDERS - Senior CPS lawyer who went to Portugal in April - and will become the next Director of Public Prosecutions. Her track record examined.

Post by plebgate on 20.08.13 21:21

The review turned into an investigation after they went to Portugal, but we have been informed it is an investigation into 38 POIs.

I hope Chatelaine is right, but I do find myself sitting on the fence for now re. whitewash or not.


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I'm still the right person for the job

Post by Guest on 06.09.15 14:54

DPP Alison Saunders says: 'I’m still the right person for the job'

UK’s most senior prosecutor says she is focused on her role despite calls to resign over decision not to charge Lord Janner with alleged child sex crimes




Alison Saunders became the first director of public prosecutions to have a major prosecuting decision reviewed. Photograph: Andrew Matthews/PA
Press Association
Sunday 6 September 2015 04.54 BST

The country’s most senior prosecutor said it was “difficult” hearing calls for her to quit over her handling of the Lord Janner case, but insisted: “I’m still the right person for the job.”

Alison Saunders, the director of public prosecutions for nearly two years, faced a backlash when her initial decision not to charge the former Labour peer with alleged child sex crimes was overturned.

Related: Lord Janner: hearing into child sex abuse claims set for February

Her decision was only reviewed after six of the complainants made a request under a scheme introduced two years ago giving victims the right to challenge CPS decisions.
She became the first DPP to have a major prosecuting decision reviewed and overturned through the new policy, prompting calls for her to resign, although she later received the backing of the attorney general, Jeremy Wright QC.
Saunders said: “It’s always difficult if people say that [to resign]. Personally, you don’t like to hear that.”
In addition to her decision on Janner, who has Alzheimer’s, Saunders has faced criticisms over other high-profile cases since becoming the most senior public prosecutor in England and Wales in November 2013.
The failure of a number of prosecutions against members of the media accused of paying public officials for information led to claims that the CPS was wasting money “persecuting innocent journalists”.
Saunders was also blasted for deciding to bring Britain’s first female genital mutilation case against a doctor who was cleared in less than 30 minutes by a jury.
But she also earned plaudits earlier in her career for overseeing high-profile cases such as the prosecution of paedophile Roy Whiting in Sussex in 2001 for the murder of schoolgirl Sarah Payne.
In 2009 she was put in charge of prosecutions in the capital, supervising the conviction of two men for murdering black teenager Stephen Lawrence in 1993.
Her work on the prosecution of thousands of people involved in the August 2011 London riots led to an appointment as Companion of the Order of the Bath.
Saunders said she was focused on her role as the country’s top prosecutor, despite the calls for her to resign.
She said: “I’m satisfied I’m the right person to be here and I’ve got a track record which proves that.
“I’m still in the post which I’m very pleased about.”
Janner, of north London, who is accused of 22 sex abuse charges, will have his trial of the facts heard in the new year.
The 87-year-old is accused of 15 counts of indecent assault and seven counts of a separate sexual offence against a total of nine alleged victims in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s.

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Alison Saunders- CPS prosecution of Lord Janner

Post by willowthewisp on 13.09.15 11:51

Newspaper reports, Daily Mail 20 April 2015, that Lord Janner's son had worked for the CPS/DPP and had worked for the lawyer or close relationship representing his father in Court over his recent appearance at Court?
If this is true, could there not be a conflict of interest?

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Re: ALISON SAUNDERS - Senior CPS lawyer who went to Portugal in April - and will become the next Director of Public Prosecutions. Her track record examined.

Post by Sceptic on 13.09.15 19:18

Guest wrote:With all due respect, Tony, I think it's actually comforting that CPS doesn't "tell" us exactly what they're doing ... if you get my drift.
Unless I am mistaken regarding the intracasies of law - The CPS role here is to guide the investigating team (Operation Grange) regarding evidence required and charges to prosecute in England - AFAIK they have no juristriction in Portugal

Facts about the Crown Prosecution Service


The Crown Prosecution Service was set up in 1986 to prosecute criminal cases investigated by the police in England and Wales. In undertaking this role, the CPS:

  • Advises the police on cases for possible prosecution
  • Reviews cases submitted by the police for prosecution
  • Where the decision is to prosecute, determines the charge in the more serious and complex cases
  • Prepares cases for court
  • Presents those cases at court

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Re: ALISON SAUNDERS - Senior CPS lawyer who went to Portugal in April - and will become the next Director of Public Prosecutions. Her track record examined.

Post by comperedna on 03.10.15 13:02

On September 14th Sceptic put up a very succinct posting about the precise role and jurisdiction of the British CPS, explaining that it has no juriisdiction in Portugal, and detailing its precise roles... what it actually does in practice... vis-a-vis the police, court system and charging etc.  It is clear the CPS can state what EVIDENCE is necessary for a court case to proceed.

Much of the thread is depressing in that it details Alison Saunders' obvious failings over Hillsborough, and other cases, more recently over the recommendation NOT to prosecute Janner (fortunately her decision was reviewed and changed).

We know Alison Saunders went out to Portugal with her deputy this April. Tony has reminded us that we have no clear idea of the purpose of this visit, and others have said 'good, we don't need to have.'.. justice works on quietly etc... Hmmm

Does anyone have any further information or even 'further thoughts' on any of the above?

This is the area that interests me most about the case at the moment, and there is absolutely nothing to chew on...

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Re: ALISON SAUNDERS - Senior CPS lawyer who went to Portugal in April - and will become the next Director of Public Prosecutions. Her track record examined.

Post by Richard IV on 03.10.15 13:51

@comperedna wrote:On September 14th Sceptic put up a very succinct posting about the precise role and jurisdiction of the British CPS, explaining that it has no juriisdiction in Portugal, and detailing its precise roles... what it actually does in practice... vis-a-vis the police, court system and charging etc.  It is clear the CPS can state what EVIDENCE is necessary for a court case to proceed.

Much of the thread is depressing in that it details Alison Saunders' obvious failings over Hillsborough, and other cases, more recently over the recommendation NOT to prosecute Janner (fortunately her decision was reviewed and changed).

We know Alison Saunders went out to Portugal with her deputy this April. Tony has reminded us that we have no clear idea of the purpose of this visit, and others have said 'good, we don't need to have.'.. justice works on quietly etc... Hmmm

Does anyone have any further information or even 'further thoughts' on any of the above?

This is the area that interests me most about the case at the moment, and there is absolutely nothing to chew on...

My only thought on this is that it must have been extremely important, critical and out of the ordinary run of business for the Head of the CPS to have taken this trip.  Her underlings are surely the ones who usually carry out investigations and then report to her for final consideration.

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Re: ALISON SAUNDERS - Senior CPS lawyer who went to Portugal in April - and will become the next Director of Public Prosecutions. Her track record examined.

Post by comperedna on 03.10.15 15:48

Me too.  That thought cheers me up... but only a bit.

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Re: ALISON SAUNDERS - Senior CPS lawyer who went to Portugal in April - and will become the next Director of Public Prosecutions. Her track record examined.

Post by worriedmum on 23.10.15 17:05

@comperedna wrote:Me too.  That thought cheers me up... but only a bit.
Is there any news?

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