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Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

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pizza

Post by marconi on 17.08.13 6:46

@T4two wrote:Since the appointment of politically correct chief constables modern policing appears to be obsessed with public relations and all that goes with it. One can easily gain a completely wrong impression of how an investigation is proceeding when the only information available is the PR bilge being spouted by the police spokesman (or should I say spokesperson?) and speculation in the media. I recall the case of the young woman Jo Yeats who disappeared immediately before Christmas a year or so ago. At that time the spokesman for the police seemed more concerned about giving the public statistics on how many tons of rubbish the police had sifted through looking for a missing pizza, than solving the case itself. In fact together with the media they became so obsessed by that pizza that I dispaired of them ever solving the case at all, until suddenly they arrested the perpetrator on the basis of forensic evidence - nothing to do with the missing pizza whatsoever. Therefore as far as Scotland Yard are concerned I am not so perturbed about Redwood's TV appearances or the information/speculation in the media - they probably have very little to do with what is actually going on.
I searched on Crime Watch about the pizza and my opinion is that it never vanished and the police was pointing to a non existence lead in order catch the perpetrator.  The perpetrator would feel better and more free to move around.
He called the police, giving them a suggestion, and it made me remember Kate's call to the PJ asking if they were investigating Murat.

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by sallypelt on 17.08.13 9:55

@marconi wrote:
@T4two wrote:Since the appointment of politically correct chief constables modern policing appears to be obsessed with public relations and all that goes with it. One can easily gain a completely wrong impression of how an investigation is proceeding when the only information available is the PR bilge being spouted by the police spokesman (or should I say spokesperson?) and speculation in the media. I recall the case of the young woman Jo Yeats who disappeared immediately before Christmas a year or so ago. At that time the spokesman for the police seemed more concerned about giving the public statistics on how many tons of rubbish the police had sifted through looking for a missing pizza, than solving the case itself. In fact together with the media they became so obsessed by that pizza that I dispaired of them ever solving the case at all, until suddenly they arrested the perpetrator on the basis of forensic evidence - nothing to do with the missing pizza whatsoever. Therefore as far as Scotland Yard are concerned I am not so perturbed about Redwood's TV appearances or the information/speculation in the media - they probably have very little to do with what is actually going on.
I searched on Crime Watch about the pizza and my opinion is that it never vanished and the police was pointing to a non existence lead in order catch the perpetrator.  The perpetrator would feel better and more free to move around.
He called the police, giving them a suggestion, and it made me remember Kate's call to the PJ asking if they were investigating Murat.
There was a pizza, and the police were searching for the empty box. There was video footage of Jo buying the pizza, and a receipt for it. At the trial this was said:
"Nigel Lickley QC, prosecuting, said when detectives announced they were looking for a box of the pizza that Miss Yeates bought on the night she was last seen alive, Tabak began searching the internet to see when the rubbish had been collected in the Clifton area"
She walked home at about 8pm via a Bargain Booze shop and a local Tesco, picking up a mozzarella and basil 'Finest' pizza.

Mr Lickley said: "The pizza and its box have not been found. Joanna Yeates did not eat it.

"Vincent Tabak took it, as he did one of her socks. Why he took these items only he can say."

"

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by jeanmonroe on 17.08.13 11:16

So, if everything is in place for a 'live' investigation between the PJ and SY does that mean that the case has been 'un-shelved' due to new evidence?
If that is the case the PJ/SY will be able to make the McCanns and 'friends' arguidos/arguidas won't they?
Indeed anyone that SY has identified as being of interest, in the files, can be too, can't they?
I mean Philomena and Trisha McCann will have no problem telling the new investigation who told them about the shutters being jemmied, won't they?
Could somebody tell me just exactly what did the 38 strong elite team DO yesterday, other than being on standby to go to Portugal, to justify the £6,160 they received in wages and costs yesterday?

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new evidence

Post by marconi on 17.08.13 16:47

"we spoke to witnesses who provided new evidence".
those are Redwood's words on his last interview.
he didn't say "new witnesses," which means that the Yard talked to witnesses that  already existed.
and that those already eixistend witnesses told the Met something new.
And based on that, the Yard will go to Algarve.

It can only be Tapas 7 or Tapas 10, 11 and 12. Or all of them.

There must be somebody there who knows about the grave.

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by aiyoyo on 18.08.13 6:23

@marconi wrote:"we spoke to witnesses who provided new evidence".
those are Redwood's words on his last interview.
he didn't say "new witnesses," which means that the Yard talked to witnesses that  already existed.
and that those already eixistend witnesses told the Met something new.
And based on that, the Yard will go to Algarve.

It can only be Tapas 7 or Tapas 10, 11 and 12. Or all of them.

There must be somebody there who knows about the grave.
Lest you forget Redwood also states that  "the Mccanns & Co  are not Persons of Interest  or  Suspects."
Either you take his  every word literally, or you don't.  

Thus far he'd said that the Yard have 38 POI that needs further work, that Mccanns & friends are not amongst the 38.  

Might it be that he was being politically (and factually at that point in time) correct ?  

Did he say they (Mccanns & Co) were 'already ' eliminated by the Yard ?  Why not ?

Not amongst the 38 POI at that point in time does not mean they can't or won't become central of focus at a later time as the investigation develops or evolves, right ?

By logic of deduction I don't believe any of the Tapas 7 or anyone in their inner circle 'in the know' breaks their silence for a simple reason. Think about it !   Had the Yard begotten a confession from one of those in the group above mentioned, wouldn't they already have their answer and case solved ?   Why complicate or compound the complication roping in only not the British Authorities but also the Portugal Authorities to help, wasting time (and MONEY, yes Cost) trying to re-interview the 38 ?  

More importantly, Is the *suspect* (as in abductor) among the 38 ?  If not what's the purpose of this merry go around ?
On the hypothesis that the Yard hope to nab the abductor via info from the 38 POI surely it would be more pragmatic to carry out this operation in silence rather than publicising it, thus alerting the *snatcher* putting Madeleine's life at risk ?

IF, as the Yard said that they are working in  collaboration closely and regularly with the Mccanns, what exactly transpired between the collaboration ?
Did the Mccanns volunteer info to the MET that they withheld from PJ ?
Did they answer questions they refused to answer to the PJ ?
Did the Yard tell the Mccanns they are going to torture (figuratively speaking) the 38 POI to pry info out of them as to the whereabout of abductor or even better whereabout of Madeleine ?  

I don't believe that the Yard would keep Mccanns in the know on a live and ongoing investigation.  The collaboration the Yard mentioned is at most a courtesy exchange of communication in keeping with protocol rather than in-depth collaboration.

Watertight is the key if this operation is to stand the chance of bringing Madeleine's perpetrator/s to Court.

Is this colossal effort really necessary just to white wash a *dead-in-the -water*  case ?

IMV, at the worst case scenario the Yard might be left on the same page as the Portuguese, an impasse, despite knowing exactly what happened to her.

At the end of it all, realistically speaking, can the Yard come out to announce Maddie is alive but they haven't a clue who snatched her despite their BEST effort ?     Would that make sense to the Nation that the big boys (elite team) of the Yard came up empty handed in spite of all they'd done.

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by plebgate on 18.08.13 8:35

I do not believe the SY would be able to say Maddie is alive without evidence that she is. The only thing they could say is that she may be alive or dead and that has already been stated. If that is the case Britain will be even more of a laughing stock than it is now in the eyes of the World imo.


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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by aiyoyo on 18.08.13 10:26

I'm thinking they cannot come out of this empty handed, no matter what.  They must say something.

If they veer towards abduction theory, that she might be alive, they will have to explain how they arrived at decision, else they would really look incompetent particularly considering elite team was deployed to do a comprehensive special commissioned review and investigation.

If there is no evidence to support abduction, then what exactly happened  ?

In the finished, be what it may be, they will have to explain how they arrived at their conclusion. Interesting times ahead anyway.

If this investigation is not over before this year is out then I will lose all hope that someone will be prosecuted for this crime.
To me, the Yard should already have solved it and now finalising foolproof evidence to a closure.
It's only a question of time before closed-end investigation will end or yield desired result, while open-end investigation could drag into eternity to no avail.

Cost is always a factor in a protracted and prolonged investigation so if this is not done and dealt with within six months, it does not bode well. All IMO anyway.

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by Monty Heck on 18.08.13 10:47

@aiyoyo wrote:I'm thinking they cannot come out of this empty handed, no matter what.  They must say something.

If they veer towards abduction theory, that she might be alive, they will have to explain how they arrived at decision, else they would really look incompetent particularly considering elite team was deployed to do a comprehensive special commissioned review and investigation.

If there is no evidence to support abduction, then what exactly happened  ?

In the finished, be what it may be, they will have to explain how they arrived at their conclusion.  Interesting times ahead anyway.

If this investigation is not over before this year is out then I will lose all hope that someone will be prosecuted for this crime.
To me, the Yard should already have solved it and now finalising foolproof evidence to a closure.  
It's only a question of time before closed-end investigation will end or yield desired result, while open-end investigation could drag into eternity to no avail.  

Cost is always a factor in a protracted and prolonged investigation so if this is not done and dealt with within six months, it does not bode well.  All IMO anyway.
And if they veer towards abduction, the successive British governments who refused to get involved during the years of "there is no official investigation, we have to do this on our own" are not going to come out of this very well for doing nothing while a child may have languished at the hands of captors, or worse.

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by Cristobell on 18.08.13 12:46

I cannot see why David Cameron invested so much public money into reviewing this case if a cover up was intended.  A formal review was destined to open up a whole can of worms.  It makes no sense. It would have been much simpler for him to say no, especially in these times of austerity. The fact that the review has now moved on to become a formal investigation can only complicate things further especially as it involves another country and another police force.

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by lj on 18.08.13 15:47

@Monty Heck wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:I'm thinking they cannot come out of this empty handed, no matter what.  They must say something.

If they veer towards abduction theory, that she might be alive, they will have to explain how they arrived at decision, else they would really look incompetent particularly considering elite team was deployed to do a comprehensive special commissioned review and investigation.

If there is no evidence to support abduction, then what exactly happened  ?

In the finished, be what it may be, they will have to explain how they arrived at their conclusion.  Interesting times ahead anyway.

If this investigation is not over before this year is out then I will lose all hope that someone will be prosecuted for this crime.
To me, the Yard should already have solved it and now finalising foolproof evidence to a closure.  
It's only a question of time before closed-end investigation will end or yield desired result, while open-end investigation could drag into eternity to no avail.  

Cost is always a factor in a protracted and prolonged investigation so if this is not done and dealt with within six months, it does not bode well.  All IMO anyway.
And if they veer towards abduction, the successive British governments who refused to get involved during the years of "there is no official investigation, we have to do this on our own" are not going to come out of this very well for doing nothing while a child may have languished at the hands of captors, or worse.
Don't forget that the "workorder" was to investigate as if the abduction had taken place in the UK.

Not "see if an abduction took place", not "an open mind", no: "to investigate as if the abduction had taken place in the UK".

It is not a matter of if they arrive at the conclusion it was an abduction, it is their working platform.


____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by Monty Heck on 19.08.13 9:46

@lj wrote:
@Monty Heck wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:I'm thinking they cannot come out of this empty handed, no matter what.  They must say something.

If they veer towards abduction theory, that she might be alive, they will have to explain how they arrived at decision, else they would really look incompetent particularly considering elite team was deployed to do a comprehensive special commissioned review and investigation.

If there is no evidence to support abduction, then what exactly happened  ?

In the finished, be what it may be, they will have to explain how they arrived at their conclusion.  Interesting times ahead anyway.

If this investigation is not over before this year is out then I will lose all hope that someone will be prosecuted for this crime.
To me, the Yard should already have solved it and now finalising foolproof evidence to a closure.  
It's only a question of time before closed-end investigation will end or yield desired result, while open-end investigation could drag into eternity to no avail.  

Cost is always a factor in a protracted and prolonged investigation so if this is not done and dealt with within six months, it does not bode well.  All IMO anyway.
And if they veer towards abduction, the successive British governments who refused to get involved during the years of "there is no official investigation, we have to do this on our own" are not going to come out of this very well for doing nothing while a child may have languished at the hands of captors, or worse.
Don't forget that the "workorder" was to investigate as if the abduction had taken place in the UK.

Not "see if an abduction took place", not "an open mind", no: "to investigate as if the abduction had taken place in the UK".

It is not a matter of if they arrive at the conclusion it was an abduction, it is their working platform.

Depressingly, the abduction angle does indeed seem to be their working platform.  However, as Aiyoyo points out, they will at some point have to justify that decision which might present a rather large problem.  The amount of information from the Portuguese investigation released into the public domain means an about face from parental involvement (with domonstrable grounds) to stranger abduction (with nothing concrete) would take some explaining.  That, and the fact that the UK government chose to leave the child in the hands of the perpetrator/s for an obscene length of time before acting amounts to one almighty PR conundrum.

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by deafoldbat on 19.08.13 12:06

Agree Monty - in a nutshell! I await developments ........

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probe

Post by marconi on 19.08.13 18:06

It is very well possible that the Yard's investigation has started already in Algarve and that it is obeying the Portuguese law : silence.  Because I think that in this case it is in the hands of the PJ, doing a favor to the Met police.  They will not tell anything to anyone.
As I believe that the answer will come from there, I believe it will not take much longer for a breakthrough.
I also believe that the news will come from the Yard in Britain, after the corpse is found and after arrests are made.
I hope thay are as much in a hurry as we are.

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by Pershing36 on 19.08.13 18:50

The abduction angle is clearly the only angle they have openly discussed..

Maybe it is a front, maybe not.

I still believe this circus paid for by the tax payer is to thin the heard of the disbelievers still further whilst gaining access to the unreleased priceless gems in the archives.

Why claim the other lot are in the clear then make idiots of themselves by going back on it.

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by Monty Heck on 19.08.13 19:33

@Pershing36 wrote:The abduction angle is clearly the only angle they have openly discussed..

Maybe it is a front, maybe not.

I still believe this circus paid for by the tax payer is to thin the heard of the disbelievers still further whilst gaining access to the unreleased priceless gems in the archives.

Why claim the other lot are in the clear then make idiots of themselves by going back on it.
It's hard to see the current SY emphasis on abduction as merely a front.  Abduction has been the establishment line from day 1, forced on the public with vigour from all angles.  Jim Gamble, for example, rather than giving impartial advice/support as his CEOP role demaned, jumped in with both feet in support of the parents from the beginning, long before the investigation of them proper was instigated and despite findings which were subject to interpretation, shall we say, has yet to voice the slightest doubt.  This attitude seems to go right across the establishment board and it is difficult to understand why none of the establishment figures who apprently refuse to entertain parental involvement will not allow the public in on the secret.  If there is such certainty that the McCs were not involved, and if there is solid evidence to back up that assertion, then why not LET US KNOW WHY THAT IS.  Surely after 6 years of suspicion and debate it is time to let the public know why none of the T9 are persons of interest.  If they have been ruled out of the equation, why is it not possible to state that as a matter of fact, without any ambiguity?

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by Trainer on 19.08.13 21:01

If the uk government really wanted to do a white wash why not just call it a day after the review?

I can't see any reason to go into a real investigation if you want a white wash

The investigation linking in with the Portuguese must be for real .......or am I stupid

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by Guest on 19.08.13 22:30

@Trainer wrote: [...] The investigation linking in with the Portuguese must be for real .......or am I stupid
***
No, I don't think you are ... I just don't know how much more time it's going to take. And there are days that I hope I will still be alive then ... sad

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by Penfold on 19.08.13 22:40

Similar to the end of JFK, where Jim Garrison tells his kids to watch out for the release of the 'truth' about JFK's assassination -as he'll be long gone by the time it comes out! Thoinking of telling my kids the same!

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by tasprin on 20.08.13 0:19

@Monty Heck wrote:
@Pershing36 wrote:The abduction angle is clearly the only angle they have openly discussed..

Maybe it is a front, maybe not.

I still believe this circus paid for by the tax payer is to thin the heard of the disbelievers still further whilst gaining access to the unreleased priceless gems in the archives.

Why claim the other lot are in the clear then make idiots of themselves by going back on it.
It's hard to see the current SY emphasis on abduction as merely a front.  Abduction has been the establishment line from day 1, forced on the public with vigour from all angles.  Jim Gamble, for example, rather than giving impartial advice/support as his CEOP role demaned, jumped in with both feet in support of the parents from the beginning, long before the investigation of them proper was instigated and despite findings which were subject to interpretation, shall we say, has yet to voice the slightest doubt.  This attitude seems to go right across the establishment board and it is difficult to understand why none of the establishment figures who apprently refuse to entertain parental involvement will not allow the public in on the secret.  If there is such certainty that the McCs were not involved, and if there is solid evidence to back up that assertion, then why not LET US KNOW WHY THAT IS.  Surely after 6 years of suspicion and debate it is time to let the public know why none of the T9 are persons of interest.  If they have been ruled out of the equation, why is it not possible to state that as a matter of fact, without any ambiguity?
The stance taken by people like Jim Gamble is the mystery Monty Heck, and partially accounts imo for the level of scepticism amongst the public. There's so much wrong with the abduction story yet the establishment don't even try to maintain a semblance of impartiality, they actually promote the McCanns as heroes for some strange reason.

In response to a tweet questioning the Scotland Yard review Jim Gamble tweeted:

Jim Gamble ‏@JimGamble_INEQE 30 Jul
@CaroleShooter I wouldn't comment on anything I haven't got a full understanding of while an investigation is ongoing. Thanks.

which is fair enough if he was consistent but in fact it's very different from his comments in Oct 2007. Shortly after the McCanns were made suspects in the disappearance of their child, he gave an interview in which he had no qualms at all about commenting whilst there was an on-going police investigation:



The original article is still on the Mirror site 5 Oct 2007
'As the senior police officer in charge of Britain's anti-paedophile operations, Jim understands only too well the toll it exacts on his team. "You are constantly traumatised by the work that you do," he says. "By the fact that adults can be so unbelievably cruel to the youngest, most vulnerable children in our society." And as head of the CEOP, the Child Exploitation and Online Protection centre, missing Madeleine McCann is inevitably never far from his mind. "We absolutely support the McCann family," he says, sitting in his glass-walled office in Pimlico, Central London. "They are to be applauded for their tireless work to keep the campaign to find their daughter in the public consciousness. It is a case for every parent of 'There but by the grace of God, go I'." For Gamble, every day is about saving a potential Madeleine from harm. And every day he and his team must plumb the depths of what the human spirit can bear'.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cop-hunts-down-net-pervs-511173#ixzz2cRRXtE1z

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by jeanmonroe on 20.08.13 0:57

In the end, Gamble's mission statement couldn't be simpler: "I just want all kids to be able to grow up in a warm, loving environment."
________________________________________________________________________________

So he wouldn't want 3 kids, all under 4 years old, left in an unlocked, dark apartment, all alone in a foreign country environment with the parents completely out of sight for at least half an hour at a time then!

Unless, of course, the 3 kids belong to his highly praised and 'adored' McCanns!

NOTHING could possibly go wrong following their brilliant parenting 'example', highly endorsed by Jim, could it?

"Still, it could have been worse, we could have lost all 3" said the loving daddy, Gerry McCann.

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you are not stupid, Trainer

Post by marconi on 20.08.13 1:02

@Trainer wrote:If the uk government really wanted to do a white wash why not just call it a day after the review?

I can't see any reason to go into a real investigation if you want a white wash

The investigation linking in with the Portuguese must be for real .......or am I stupid
Trainer, you are a bright person. of course it is not a white wash and it has never been. the mccanns kept insisting on a review, knowing that the PJ would refuse it, unless there would be new evidence.As the files were shelved, they thought they were safe.  and they continued being a pain in the a... of the British government, annoying Cameron and Theresa May.They had no idea that Brooks was preparing a trap, that would bring them to justice.
Rebekah wanted the 500.000 pounds back, of course. And even much more than 500.000, which will happen.
Don't you ever trust journalists!

The Yard got involved in the case and, in my opnion,most of the Tapas, under a terrible pressure,had no other choice but telling the truth,  during an interview.  That is what Redwood called " new witnesses evidence".
In my opinion, that evidence is pointing to Algarve, where the corpse is hidden. That's why the Met are going there. I suspect in a house near the church, perhaps under the kitchen floor, an usual anglo-sax solution for  murders. If the corpse is there, the PJ must know it.

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by jeanmonroe on 20.08.13 1:24

marconi:
The Yard got involved in the case and, in my opnion,most of the Tapas, under a terrible pressure,had no other choice but telling the truth,  during an interview.  That is what Redwood called " new witnesses evidence".
_________________________________________________________________
A 'hoax'

Conspiracy to pervert the course of justice................................maximum sentence...................LIFE imprisonment.
Conspiracy to defraud.' the fund '.( knowing full well the facts about the 'disappearance' BEFORE 'fund' set up).....maximum sentence,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,10 years imprisonment.
Proceeds of Crime Act....................., houses, cars, money etc, all forfeited to get back the cost of operation £5.5 million.
And that's before they even face the gaunlet of hate they'd ALL face from the public they, and their 'family members' ASKED to donate to a private company they set up.

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by Who?What?Where? on 20.08.13 1:42

jeanmonroe,

Do you know what the minimum sentence's for those crimes are?

The people involved in this case seem to be so well connected and so well protected , that it is much more likely that a minimum sentence is all they will ever recieve, even if this case is brought to a Court of Law and a person (or persons), is convicted of something.

Who?What?Where?

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Re: Joana Morais - The PJ will conduct the questioning that was requested by the English police - 14/8/2013

Post by jeanmonroe on 20.08.13 2:09

@Who?What?Where? wrote:jeanmonroe,

Do you know what the minimum sentence's for those crimes are?

The people involved in this case seem to be so well connected and so well protected , that it is much more likely that a minimum sentence is all they will ever recieve, even if this case is brought to a Court of Law and a person (or persons), is convicted of something.
The minimum sentence they, and their ENTIRE families, would receive is that the WHOLE of the UK would hate them, not just the vast majority!

jeanmonroe

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