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HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Maggs Shaw on 11.08.13 13:40

@Woofer wrote:Don`t know about David Ike, but Brian Gerrish has not mentioned Robert Green/Hollie Greig business since March - maybe he has cottoned on to being duped.  I expect the same will apply to David Ike, but some people on their forums carry on believing.  One can hardly blame them when Anne Greig`s story seemed so plausible.
 Hello Woofer,

I think Brian Gerrish might have realised he was losing any credibility he had by aligning himself with the HG case.  He was extremely misinformed, to say the least.  He was still promoting aspects of the story, well beyond the time it was all proven to be untrue.   I would be interested to know if Gerrish actually holds any qualifications entitling him to deal with child abuse cases.  I doubt it.   I have requested Mr Gerrish to provide me with qualification or a CRB check certificate.  All he proceeded to do was send ridiculous emails to me.    I have also asked if he could direct me to any website or any other media confirming any of his 'successes' - in anything!  Nothing.  There are many within that kind of industry that 'just believed' Robert's story.... I am sure there are few now regretting that choice.  

Anne definitely was able to convince the viewers she was sincere.   She had been suffering with mental health issues for quite a while, and Robert and Anne's claims that they 'sectioned' her because she went to the police station to report Hollie's abuse, is totally incorrect.   Behind the scenes they were doing their best, NOT to section her, but they had no choice.  She was making claims such as...the Staff at the hostel she was residing in, gave Denis, her husband, copies of her keys, and he was going in and putting poison in the milk trying to kill her and Hollie...etc.  That Denis was obtaining that poison from his 'lover', who was nurse.  And in one of the videos...Robert claims that a Sarah Buchanan, who was involved in the sectioning, was the 'Sheriff's niece.   Not true.   Robert and Anne just made wild, ridiculous claims, which now have come back on them, which I am sure, they never envisaged.

There will always be a 'band of followers' that will carry on believing.  Some want it to be true, others feel some body of authority has done them wrong, and the HG could be their saviour and solve their own problems.   Others just don't bother to read anything, listen to anything and will never be any the wiser.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Woofer on 11.08.13 16:04

Hello Maggs,
I don`t think there`s any point in slating people for being duped by Robert Green and Anne Greig.  Personally I wouldn`t condemn Brian just because he fell for their deception.  Can`t see why Brian needs qualifications in childrens` issues or needs to be CRB checked - childrens matters is just one of the areas he reports on.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Maggs Shaw on 11.08.13 16:35

Hi Woofer


I am not slating him, I am just stating the fact that he appeared in videos, and alternative news items and had Robert as a 'guest' on the UK Column TV show that he hosts, the appearance by Robert was after he had been issued with a Court order outlining what he was and was not allowed to do concerning the HG case.   Brian, I am afraid put himself in a precarious position by NOT checking any of the facts surrounding the case.  All I was pointing out was, that if Brain 'got it wrong' with the HG case, what else is he getting 'wrong' because he made the error in not confirming salient points before broadcasting it all over the place.  In fact, very important points Brian repeated over and over again that were wrong.   Perhaps his image could be salvaged a little if he could only admit that he 'got it wrong' - which, obviously he cannot do without bringing all the other work he does into question.

I have never slated anyone for getting it wrong and apologising, but I do not look kindly on the purveyors of this 'hoax' that still refuse to accept it has all been a load of lies , and at least have the decency to apologise to the innocent victims lives that they have had a hand in ruining.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Sylvia Major on 11.08.13 18:41

Hi All ,
Thankyou very much for your kind welcome,,
Denis Mackie , Hollies dad , is my cousin,.... It has been a testing time for all of us wrongly accused, but now , fortunately, the tide has turned and many now see through Anne , Robert and Belinda's lies.......I would like to thank the group of people who managed to expose the lies for what they are .. .. Unfortunately I am not sure as to Anne and Hollie's welfare, whether she is receiving help or not.....and it is very concerning that she is still surrounded by Sims / Mc Kenzie / Green and Gerrish who , as Blunder Buss has pointed out , are still promoting her for their own means ........ I am more than willing to answer any questions you may have .... Sylvia......

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by kikoraton on 11.08.13 18:51

Hmmmm.....a lot of character assassination going on here, methinks. Rewriting history??

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Guest on 11.08.13 18:58

You certainly have my sympathy, Sylvia.

Do you have any idea why the media has never been prepared to print the story? It would certainly be very topical now with the furore over the activities of Jimmy Savile and others.

Have you ever been in contact with the mainstream media and been told that Anne Greig simply cannot be believed and that's the reason for the news blackout?

Unfortunately, as we know with the McCann case, when the media only picks and chooses what it prints, it inevitably leads to accusations of cover-ups.

Kikoraton: I'm not sure what you mean by rewriting history.

P.S. Sylvia - obviously you know Hollie. Am I right in my belief that she is not capable of giving the information about the supposed attackers? I'll happily admit that I was wrong if you disagree.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Woofer on 11.08.13 19:36

I`m sure Brian Gerrish must be aware of these contradictions by now and has been doing his own research - maybe that`s why he hasn`t mentioned it further since March.  I agree, that if what has been asserted here is the actual truth, and if he finds it so, he should say so.  

The ladies in the video seem truthful and plausible, but then so did Anne Greig !

Without proof, it comes down to who one believes.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Guest on 11.08.13 20:59

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote: [...]
Kikoraton: I'm not sure what you mean by rewriting history.
[...]
***
Me neither. I hope Kiko can explain.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Sylvia Major on 11.08.13 22:11


Dear NFWTD ,
The reason the main stream media have not reported on this case is a simple one. The law of Libel . They would be printing lies , which would undoubtedly mean they would get sued . I feel sure that it has all been watched by the journalists , but any editor would know that publishing the story would surely get them into deep water .......
David Leask from the Herald managed to release an article but this covered the story from a different aspect ......
Mark Daly from the BBC was going to cover the story, but soon realised after doing his investigations that the story had too many holes ......
To answer your p.s. ..I knew Hollie for about three years , and she was only capable of answering ' yeah or no' , she could not string two words together , she had no comprehension of what was going on around her..All she ever wanted to do was to please her Mum... Both Denis and Anne , and her brother Greg , were always very good to her, making sure she was always happy, she always had a bag of sweets and a comic, and her 'soaps' were always taped for her....She was a very well cared for little girl.........Sylvia........

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Guest on 11.08.13 22:43

Thanks for that, Sylvia.

Perhaps Hollie's vocabulary improved when she went to school but I feel that it is very unlikely that she could have become the mine of information that she supposedly was at the age of 20.

I remember the proposed BBC story but of course Anne's reason for it not appearing was that Mark Daly had been threatened with being sacked.

The trouble is that what Anne was saying was all so believable; we know for sure from other cases that the Establishment will defend itself at all costs and that, apart from a few minor players, the only people to be punished are the ones who tried to do something about the corruption.

I hope that one day Anne finds peace.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Tony Bennett on 11.08.13 23:09

@kikoraton wrote:Hmmmm...a lot of character assassination going on here, methinks. Rewriting history??
Not nearly so bad as the character assassination of 31 innocent people by Anne Greig, Robert Green & Belinda McKenzie and their acolytes.

Think of it not so much as 're-writing' history but rather, that we have for the past 3 years heard from the accusers - the prosecution case (i.e. Anne Greig's tales promoted by a string of charlatans).

Now it's the defendants' turn to have their say - and things are already beginning to look look very different.

For the sake of the reputation of people like David Icke and Brian Gerrish, the sooner they admit they've got this wrong, apologise sincerely to those wrongly accused and set the record straight, the more attention people might pay to the rest of what they're saying.

Well, maybe.

Gerrish did excellent work exposing Common Purpose; he risks undermining that work by not rectifying his error and failing to check the facts in the Hollie Greig case.

Good and wise old King Solomon, who as King and chief judge in Israel for 40 years exercised 'the judgment of Solomon', clearly recognised this phenomenon, and put it very succinctly (Proverbs 18 v 17):

He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Tony Bennett on 11.08.13 23:38

@Woofer wrote:The ladies in the video seem truthful and plausible, but then so did Anne Greig !

REPLY: I certainly concede that, I believed their story at first because it seemed to be put across sincerely and there appeared to be a whole range of facts that seemed to support the story.

Without proof, it comes down to who one believes.

REPLY: Not quite. Where allegations of criminal and grossly immoral conduct are made, the burden of proof is on the accuser to justify his claims.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by blunder Buss on 12.08.13 9:27

@Woofer wrote:Don`t know about David Ike, but Brian Gerrish has not mentioned Robert Green/Hollie Greig business since March - maybe he has cottoned on to being duped.  I expect the same will apply to David Ike, but some people on their forums carry on believing.  One can hardly blame them when Anne Greig`s story seemed so plausible.
He has mentioned it briefly quite recently, but not as a separate topic. From memory it was on one of his 'shows', and he made comments about a few corrupt cases, and included Hollie Greig was one he mentioned.

But as far as Gerrish is concerned, just to not mention it isn't enough imv, he needs to 'come out' and apologise.

David Icke didn't mention Hollie Greig at his marathon gig at Wembley. Even when he was on the topic of child abuse he didn't mention her. He spoke for about 9 hours, so plenty of time to fit it in, but chose not to.

And for all the time he was on stage, there was time for him to promote his son's musical career by using nepotism and allowing him to perform. Also time for him to do that strange dance towards the end, but no time for a Q and A..? *cough cough* Wonder why..?

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Woofer on 12.08.13 10:56

@blunder Buss wrote:
@Woofer wrote:Don`t know about David Ike, but Brian Gerrish has not mentioned Robert Green/Hollie Greig business since March - maybe he has cottoned on to being duped.  I expect the same will apply to David Ike, but some people on their forums carry on believing.  One can hardly blame them when Anne Greig`s story seemed so plausible.
He has mentioned it briefly quite recently, but not as a separate topic. From memory it was on one of his 'shows', and he made comments about a few corrupt cases, and included Hollie Greig was one he mentioned.

But as far as Gerrish is concerned, just to not mention it isn't enough imv, he needs to 'come out' and apologise.

David Icke didn't mention Hollie Greig at his marathon gig at Wembley. Even when he was on the topic of child abuse he didn't mention her. He spoke for about 9 hours, so plenty of time to fit it in, but chose not to.

And for all the time he was on stage, there was time for him to promote his son's musical career by using nepotism and allowing him to perform. Also time for him to do that strange dance towards the end, but no time for a Q and A..? *cough cough* Wonder why..?
 Yes, I agree Brian does need to come clean or else his other good works will lose credibility.  I feel rather sorry for everyone that has fallen for Anne`s delusions; people who are generally trying to do good and expose horrendous goings on are themselves victims in all this.  Most of us believed Anne`s delusions, including me.

Here is an interesting radio broadcast by Keelan Balderson who has looked deeper into things - he interviews 2 ladies who were involved with the campaign and who noticed things weren`t adding up and how Anne was treating Robert Green quite badly.  Keelan also interviews Wyn and Sylvia.

Interviews start at about 14.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIgYbPhPt1Q

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Maggs Shaw on 12.08.13 11:04

@Woofer wrote:
@blunder Buss wrote:
@Woofer wrote:Don`t know about David Ike, but Brian Gerrish has not mentioned Robert Green/Hollie Greig business since March - maybe he has cottoned on to being duped.  I expect the same will apply to David Ike, but some people on their forums carry on believing.  One can hardly blame them when Anne Greig`s story seemed so plausible.
He has mentioned it briefly quite recently, but not as a separate topic. From memory it was on one of his 'shows', and he made comments about a few corrupt cases, and included Hollie Greig was one he mentioned.

But as far as Gerrish is concerned, just to not mention it isn't enough imv, he needs to 'come out' and apologise.

David Icke didn't mention Hollie Greig at his marathon gig at Wembley. Even when he was on the topic of child abuse he didn't mention her. He spoke for about 9 hours, so plenty of time to fit it in, but chose not to.

And for all the time he was on stage, there was time for him to promote his son's musical career by using nepotism and allowing him to perform. Also time for him to do that strange dance towards the end, but no time for a Q and A..? *cough cough* Wonder why..?
 Yes, I agree Brian does need to come clean or else his other good works will lose credibility.  I feel rather sorry for everyone that has fallen for Anne`s delusions; people who are generally trying to do good and expose horrendous goings on are themselves victims in all this.  Most of us believed Anne`s delusions, including me.

Here is an interesting radio broadcast by Keelan Balderson who has looked deeper into things - he interviews 2 ladies who were involved with the campaign and who noticed things weren`t adding up and how Anne was treating Robert Green quite badly.  Keelan also interviews Wyn and Sylvia.

Interviews start at about 14.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIgYbPhPt1Q
Hi Woofer,
One of the ladies interviewed on the Keelan Balderson show is me... I was under the name of Rachel Keeley and if you look at my skype details on this forum....they still remain in that name.

Yes, I understand fully how people were taken in by Anne Greig and Robert Green, I was at first...until I started to look further into this.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Woofer on 12.08.13 11:12

Hi Maggs - Didn`t realise it was you !!

Its good to find real truth seeker like Keelan Balderson willing to go a bit further and query both sides of an issue.  I wish Brian would do the same.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Maggs Shaw on 12.08.13 11:38

@Woofer wrote:Hi Maggs - Didn`t realise it was you !!

Its good to find real truth seeker like Keelan Balderson willing to go a bit further and query both sides of an issue.  I wish Brian would do the same.
 wink4   Hi Woofer,

Yes Keelan Balderson did a tremendous job.   I was particularly impressed with the research he had done beforehand.      We have offered many times for people such as Gerrish/McKenzie/Green to come and sit and talk to us....they refuse to.   I confronted Robert the other week, and offered to buy him coffee and sit down with me and have a chat.... he just ran away.     Which is strange as Robert said he would always sit opposite anyone and discuss the Hollie Greig case.    But....I think they know their time is up....just a shame they cannot admit it.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Guest on 12.08.13 11:43

I think that, as with a certain other case, the longer any hoax goes on, the harder it is to admit what you've done.

I would certainly have some sympathy for anyone in this position if they came clean and did their best to make amends to everyone whose lives they've tried to ruin.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Woofer on 12.08.13 11:52

@Maggs Shaw wrote:
@Woofer wrote:Hi Maggs - Didn`t realise it was you !!

Its good to find real truth seeker like Keelan Balderson willing to go a bit further and query both sides of an issue.  I wish Brian would do the same.
 wink4   Hi Woofer,

Yes Keelan Balderson did a tremendous job.   I was particularly impressed with the research he had done beforehand.      We have offered many times for people such as Gerrish/McKenzie/Green to come and sit and talk to us....they refuse to.   I confronted Robert the other week, and offered to buy him coffee and sit down with me and have a chat.... he just ran away.     Which is strange as Robert said he would always sit opposite anyone and discuss the Hollie Greig case.    But....I think they know their time is up....just a shame they cannot admit it.
 I don`t think there`s any point discussing things with Robert - as you can glean from his reactions during the discussion with the journalist Marc Daly - he goes into a totally irrational mode.  Its not like having a conversation with a rational person is it - he sounds unbalanced/childish himself, demanding Marc apologise to Anne on air before he would continue talking to him.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Guest on 12.08.13 14:16

Oh dear, that sounds like trying to converse with a McCann groupie!

If by any chance Robert Green is aware of the forum and this debate, it would be great to hear why he still believes the story.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Maggs Shaw on 12.08.13 15:15

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Oh dear, that sounds like trying to converse with a McCann groupie!

If by any chance Robert Green is aware of the forum and this debate, it would be great to hear why he still believes the story.
 I have offered a debate with Robert and Belinda.... I have spoken to both of them recently.    They will not entertain any kind of debate.   A few years ago Robert had quite a following, but at his recent court appearances, two I have attended, there has been only two supporters...one very aggressive woman that told me to f*** of scum. She had no reason to say that, I was being very polite and non confrontational.  Robert, I doubt, will ever admit he is wrong, he of course has to justify making many people's lives misery and spending a little time in clink.   One of the videos is on youtube, the other is to be uploaded at some point.

It is quite strange, HDJ sacked Robert a good while ago, but he still keeps on going, poked by Belinda.  Belinda is a clever cookie she will use people to her own ends.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Maggs Shaw on 12.08.13 15:55

@blunder Buss wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:That last video link isn't available due to copyright issues. It would have been interesting to hear a debate between both sides; I presume that it wasn't as pointless as it would have been if McCann supporters were together with those who doubt the story.
 

Many invitations have been extended to Green/McKenzie/HDJ and Co. to have an open debate by the Hollie Greig Hoax Group (HGHG), all have been rejected. The closest they came was on the Mel Ve show, where numerous questions were submitted by Ian McFerrin [on behalf of the HDJ group] in written form, and asked on his behalf by Mel. All were answered.

So having given McFerrin the courtesy of answering his questions, one would hope that the favour would be returned, and he/they would then make himself/themselves available to answer the HGHG questions, but no, it seems that he, like many other followers, decided to just melt away.

Last February a meetup was hosted by the 'Inspired by David Icke Group' in Central London, again invitations were sent out to all the principal supporters at HDJ and the HGHG. Three members of the HGHG attended, including one of the accused, Sylvia Major. None of the principals from the HDJ attended, either refusing or were just absent.

What they decided to do instead was to send some ill-informed lackies along to ask questions on their behalf. But their ignorance about the case was exposed for all to see. Oh, and a buffoon ran into the venue with some leaflets, and ran out again, without saying a word. Hit-and-run tactics by cowards. There was a deranged women, Sabine [Sabine McNeill, close associate of Belinda McKenzie], shouting from the back of the room claiming she was a scientist, and on this basis alone it would seem that the expectation was that we should believe her, and not the evidence. Again, she knew little, just spouting what she had been told to say,and just got angry when she couldn't answer some questions thrown back at her. Her scientist claim was just another example of using a lie to hide a lie.

BBC reporter Mark Daly has taped conversation(s) with Robert Green which would soon clarify who the liar is, Daly asked Green for permission to publish the tapes, and Green refused. Why, unless he has something to hide...? Green also refused to talk to Daly on a radio show under the pretence that Daly had insulted his *cough cough* client, Anne, and refused to take part unless Daly apologised. It was all a puerile smokescreen to avoid the questions. 

Green, or anyone for that matter, would have jumped at the chance to answer the questions from a top investigative journalist, if he were telling the truth that is, but he knew Daly would expose him, and he did anyway. Green's refusal to talk to him said it all.

The facts are that Green, McKenzie/HDJ have never been cross-examined properly in public, they chose to only go on shows where the host is already on their side, and the sycophantic 'interviews' are conducted in a fashion to try to hoodwink the public even more.

[added: a few minor edits by Admin]
I have just listened to the Keelan Balderson show again, previously linked on a thread above, which features a clip with Mark Daly.   The tony Legend Show featuring Green and Anne was the turning point for many believers.   As you rightly say Blunder, Green should have jumped at the chance to cross question Daly.  He had the opportunity to blow  Daly's 'lies' right of the water.  But he chose instead to insist that he apologise to Anne.     Daly was correct, if the information Anne gave him was the same as the documents I have seen, he soon saw that Anne was suffering with a mental health problem, so of course he would not discuss it live on air.    But of course, Green had not been to Aberdeen prior to his arrest on the 11th February 2010, so how he claims to have investigated anything beats me.    He was entirely stumped and knew it.    It was me that sent the letter to Green, from a third party, a good while ago asking if he would give permission for Daly to play the taped conversation he had with him.   No reply from Green at all. 

Yes, the stooges sent in by Belinda to the George (David Icke Inspiration Meeting) on the 24th February this year failed miserably.

David Icke ....  A long term member of that forum posted some articles on there re the 'hoax' and was banned for life.  So, can we presume that Icke too, just likes to pop up a 'paypal' button  and damn the truth.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.08.13 22:26

I would like at this point on the thread to pay tribute to all those who have actively worked hard - very hard as I know from having talked to them and seen how they've gradually uncovered the truth - to expose this cruel hoax.

When the final story of this case is fully unfolded, I think we shall learn many lessons - lessons we all should have learnt a long time ago perhaps - but nevertheless useful for the future.

There are simple lessons like:

Question everything.

Assume nothing - check everything.

And so on.

But I would like in this post to explore one fundamental aspect of the Hollie Greig Hoax - namely the capacity of one plausible person (in this case Anne Greig) to persuade even professionals, who should really know what they are doing, to get it quite disastrously wrong.

In the long UK Column TV programme featuring Brian Gerrish lightly 'interviewing' Robert Green (late 2012, after he has come out of prison), they both produce certain documents that they both say provide 'proof' that Hollie was sexually abused, or, in Brian Gerrish's words, 'seriously' sexually abused.

I am going to feauture just one of them. The letter below is from Aberdeen Police to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority (CICA). It was the crucial letter that led to Anne Greig (on Hollie's behalf) being awarded compesnation from the state of £13,500 for her alleged injuries.

I should say the followng. CICA is empowered to make payments to those who have suffered injuries as the result of a crime of violence. Or in the case of a death from violence, payments may be made to a surviving relative. The CICA do not have to be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt. All they need to believe is that on the balance of probabilities, a person has suffered from a violent act. In other words, that it is more likley than not that they suffered injury as the result of a crime of violence.

Almost without exception, CICA make their recommendations on the basis of what the police tell them, in writing, about any crime or alleged crime. This letter (below) was the one that persuaded CICA to pay £13,500 to Anne Greig.

I should add that payments are made on the basis of a 'tariff', or a scale of payments from £1,000 upwards, depending on the severity of the injuries suffered. This tariff is publicly available. So Anne Greig would have known in advance how much she would get if she claimed that Hollie had suffered sexual abuse for as long as 15 years.

For many people (including myself), the £13,500 CICA award to Holie/Anne was a very strong indication that Hollie really had been abused as her mother and Robert Green claimed.

In the UK Column transmission, Gerrish and Green only showed extracts from the letter. Here are all the extracts they showed us:

QUOTE

To: Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority (CICA)

From: Criminal Investigation Division
Police Headquarters
Queen Street
Aberdeen

24 September 2003

Ref: HQ/CID/CPIU/S503/00/DI

Dear Sirs

re Hollie Mackie b. 26 November 1979

“On 20 May 2000, Hollie was examined by Dr Frances Kelly, now retired, but then retained by Grampian Police as a forensic medical examiner. Dr Kelly found there was evidence of previous penetration of Hollie’s private parts. She signed a formal certificate to that effect. A copy  is attached for your information. Clearly, there is no medical evidence of how, by whom, or over what period of time this occurred.

"The investigating officer at the time, and others who have conducted further enquiry since, were all of the opinion that Hollie had suffered penetrative sexual abuse at some point in the past. AS can be seen from her statement, she named her father Denis Mackie as the perpetrator. Although further enquiries were carried out, there was never a sufficiency of corroborative evidence to make prosecution of any person viable”.

SNIPPED BY UK COLUMN

“I have now reviewed Hollie’s case in some detail, and have spoken to officers concerned. The position, as far as I can determine it, is that there seems a sufficiency of evidence to accept, on the balance of probability, that Hollie Mackie was sexually abused, and that this has included penetration of her private parts. Given that Hollie, because of her disabilities, has been closely supervised throughout her life, the perpetrator is most likely to have been someone close to her who had regular, unsupervised, access. She has named her father as responsible.

“The evidence available gives little indication of the timescales involved, but based on experience of similar cases, it is reasonably safe to say that intefamilkis sexual abuse usually coimencs when the victim is quite young and continues  until the teenage years.

"Given that the reason the abuse stops then is the growing ability of the victim to affect what happens to them, abuse may go on longer in respect of less able victims like Hollie. It might be expected in Hollie’’s case that the abuse went on for a period of years. The years 1985 to 2000 have been deduced from the family’s circumstances and the brief references to places made by Hollie, but would not be unreasonable”.

“Officers who have dealt with Hollie have taken the view that she was a truthful witness, to the best of her ability, and is an entirely innocent victim. She appears to have been distressed by what happened to her, and if it is true that her father was responsible, this would have been particularly traumatic for such a vulnerable person”.

REST SNIPPED BY UK COLUMN


UNQUOTE

On the face of it, this is a seriously impressive letter. It comes from a senior police officer. It is based on the views of 'other officers' who have conducted further enquiries. It is based on the medical opinion of a Dr Kelly who said that there is evidence of penetration.

This letter of 24 September 2003 gave Anne Greig the £13,500 and has been referred to time and time again by the likes of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie.

Here are just some of the quotes on the UK Column video:

Gerrish – “She was sexually abused, including penetration…she was sexually abused, seriously sexually abused…”

Gerrish: “So there’s no messing around by what the police are actually saying here...They are saying that Hollie was abused, that it includes penetration  - and that it’s not just one officer saying this, it is a series of, of officers… So at no stage in this police documentation  is there any doubt about whether Hollie was abused?”

Green: “None whatsoever, none whatsoever, it’s quite clear there..There is hard evidence…The question is: ‘Was Hollie abused?’ The statement here is very clear that she absolutely was”


Gerrish was guilty in the broadcast of adding the word 'seriously' sexually abused. There is actually no evidence of abuse at all, and Gerrish was entirely wrong to add the word 'seriously'.

What Dr Kelly said was simply this: "There was evidence of previous penetration of Hollie’s private parts". No less. But certainly no more. No evidence of repeated penetration. No evidence of abusive penetration.

And there is a very simple explanation for this.

Hollie had at least one boyfriend - also understood to have learning difficulties. And that is how the penetration occurred. And it appears not to have been 'abusive'. It was apparently consensual.

I am told by members of the Hollie Greig Hoax group (but cannot actually verify this myself) that Anne Greig (a) not only knew about the boyfriend(s) but encouraged the relationship(s). It would also seem that not only did Anne Greig make up all the stories about rapes and orgies of Hollie and 7 other children by up to 31 people over a period of 14 years in the home of the (non-existent) sister of a Scottish Sheriff, she also withheld information from the experts about Hollie's boyftriend(s).  

Maybe one of you with greater knowledge about the case can add to this.

One woman's lies were believed by 'experts' - even police officers, who could find no corroboration whatsoever of Hollie's abuse, but were prepared to sign a letter stating she had been abused.

Enabling Anne to collect her cheque for £13,500.

There was no evidence of any physical injury whatsoever to Hollie.

She was awarded compensation on Scale A9, namely:

"Disabling mental injury, confirmed by diagnosis or prognosis of psychiatrist or clinical psychologist:
‐ lasting 5 years or more but not permanent - A9 - £13,500".

____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Woofer on 12.08.13 22:45

This is getting into a very contraversial area here - whether people with severe learning difficulties have the mental capacity to give consent. I believe its well known that children and adults with learning difficulties sometimes have no inhibitions or control.  But Anne must have known that.  It would be interesting to find out if Anne had put Hollie on the pill.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Maggs Shaw on 12.08.13 22:51

@Woofer wrote:This is getting into a very contraversial area here - whether people with severe learning difficulties have the mental capacity to give consent. I believe its well known that children and adults with learning difficulties sometimes have no inhibitions or control.  But Anne must have known that.  It would be interesting to find out if Anne had put Hollie on the pill.
 Hi Woofer,
Just to confirm....Anne and Denis were both in attendance with the Doctor asking for contraception for Hollie.  From memory it was about 1990 which would place Hollie around the age of 13.   Anne released the letter detailing this back in 2010.   Anne and Robert retracted most of the documents they originally released back in 2010, mainly because they started to realise people were not interpreting the contents quite the same as they were.   I will attempt to locate the letter.

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