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HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Maggs Shaw on 21.08.13 20:01

@Woofer wrote:
@Sylvia Major wrote:Hi Woofer,,, sorry I think I might have messed up your post !!    I just wanted to ask you where you got your list of names from .. because there were 22 names on the original list posted through the neighbours doors..??

Thanks...
Hi Sylvia - I got the list from here :-

http://holliegreig.info/2010/01/aberdeen-paedophile-ring/
Hi Woofer,

I am not sure if you have looked at the comments on that thread...some of them are pretty recent!!

Firstly you will see a comment from Sovereign....    Roger Hayes took up the Hollie gauntlet, without any proper investigations, which he eventually admitted, and ran with it...or tried to.. he proposed to arrange coach loads of supporters of the HG case to go to Aberdeen to hand out leaflets.... He and his cohorts bravely announced that they would be handing out 'exactly the same leaflets' as Robert Green did the day he was arrested.   Needless to say the crazed support for traveling up to Aberdeen from down south dwindled somewhat,  some of the ardent ones did attend...but, it was only when I pointed out to them that the interdict served upon Robert stated actions 'by him or anyone on his behalf'  the U-turn came in a flash, and it was decided that perhaps they would hand out differently worded leaflets.   Again, it just proves, even the figures you think you can rely upon to 'do their research'  -  DON'T do any!!!

If you read the comments on that page, you will quite clearly understand why Robert was arrested and imprisoned for Breach of the Peace...  Paedophilia is a very emotive subject, inciting violence and hatred, towards innocent people, is totally unacceptable...    Asking for addresses, giving out where people work...etc etc...  

The website, I believe, is hosted in USA, so it is an impossible task to take any action against them... perhaps Tony might be able to comment on that.    Again, I will say,  it is the legacy that these lunatics leave behind, the legacy for the innocently accused and their children and grandchildren.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Tony Bennett on 21.08.13 21:38

@Maggs Shaw wrote: The website, I believe, is hosted in USA, so it is an impossible task to take any action against them... perhaps Tony might be able to comment on that.   
Yes, I will.

Legal action against U.S.-hosted sites is wickedly expensive and deters all but the wealthiest. It did not stop the McCanns, however, in 2010 from using the services of Carter-Ruck to try to take down a website hosted in the U.S. by Automattic Inc. that they said had libellous and copyrighted material (photos of Madeleine) on it. AFAIK they got the copyrighted material removed - but not most of the other material.

However, I think what might work is a 'plea from the heart' from one of those involved (e.g. Sylvia Major) to the hosters remove the material i.e. close down the blog/website.

A little bit of hard evidence that these wicked allegations are untrue would be needed of course. I am aware of this approach having worked in another case, where a desperate person wanted to remove grossly offensive and untrue material. The plea from that individual succeded, where expensive letters from high-powered lawyers might well have failed

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Woofer on 21.08.13 21:42

Hi Maggs,
Yes the website is pretty disgusting.  One of the most shocking things to me is that RG is in fact inciting hatred and getting away with making terrible accusations against individuals, using the most emotive subject possible. You`re right, paedophilia arouses disgust in most people and in some brings out violence - even more reason to get to the real truth. 

I don`t think I`ll be convinced either way until a couple of rational people from both sides get together and lay out the proofs starting from the beginning - preferably with a mediator to prevent discussion getting overheated. I know you/Sylvia have offered and been turned down which speaks volumes. The truth could probably be gleaned from Hollie too if handled by an expert (though, as someone has said, the poor girl shouldn`t have to keep revisiting it).  I must admit I can see Anne`s side of things - who wouldn`t have become paranoid in the cirumstances?  And she probably thought RG was manna from heaven when he actually believed her and said he`d campaign for her.  But once you start campaigning you attract all sorts of people with their own personal grudges adding to the energy and it gets out of control.

Yep, I read the recent comments on that blog.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Guest on 21.08.13 22:21

I certainly would have sympathy for Anne Greig if she initially really believed that her daughter had been abused but I am finding it hard to believe that, with the lack of any physical evidence, she could have thought so.

I assume from the level of Hollie's disability that she must need help with matters of personal hygiene and with dressing. Yet Anne, as her principal carer, never noticed anything untoward?

Sylvia or Maggs, do you personally think that, when this first started in 2000, Anne was genuine in her beliefs or that she was out for revenge?

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Maggs Shaw on 21.08.13 22:50

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I certainly would have sympathy for Anne Greig if she initially really believed that her daughter had been abused but I am finding it hard to believe that, with the lack of any physical evidence, she could have thought so.

I assume from the level of Hollie's disability that she must need help with matters of personal hygiene and with dressing. Yet Anne, as her principal carer, never noticed anything untoward?

Sylvia or Maggs, do you personally think that, when this first started in 2000, Anne was genuine in her beliefs or that she was out for revenge?
I feel sure Anne could not have failed to have noticed any physical problems.  The abuse 'allegedly' commenced from the age of 6.  Most parents are still assisting their children with their hygiene at that age, but in view of Hollie's disability that care would have been continued perhaps for a good while longer'.

Anne was suffering with mental health issues before Hollie supposedly divulged this information to her.  What actually was said between them in the Hostel, we will never know, but it was from that point it all escalated.  Clearly in the Edge Media video, when Anne was explaining that Hollie was frightened of her father, scared that he would kill her and her dogs....it was Anne's words... because when Hollie was asked if she was indeed scared  and thought he would kill the dogs....Hollie replied  'no he didn't kill them...  when the interviewer asked Anne what Hollie had said,,  Anne quickly changed it to....'from memory'      'He said he would kill them',  Hollie did not correct Anne.        

As time went by and Hollie continued to name people, 'Anne's words'........the list grew.. but the list was compiled of people that as far as Anne was concerned, had crossed her at some point.   Personally, I feel she was out for revenge.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Sylvia Major on 22.08.13 0:12


Hi NFWTD,, To answer your question, Yes , Anne wanted revenge ,, her world was falling apart, and things were not going HER way....She was used to gettin ALL her own way...Her mother and then finding out her brother had also cheated her , just sent her ' over the top '. It is little wonder she behaved the way she did,,, there were MANY incidents around that time involving Anne,.. only a couple of which are in the public domain..... Anne would not accept the fact that she was ill and refused all help from family , friends and doctors,,, consequently , some of us were put on the list..and the others were ' in on the conspiracy '. .......

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Guest on 22.08.13 9:22

I've never heard mention of Anne's mother before; are you able to say any more about her and what she did to turn Anne against her? Is she still alive?
 
Who are the other two Mackies - Graeme and Gillian - who appear on some lists?
 
I've just noticed that HGJ (Malcolm) has left the building - but not of his own volition. I hope that there might be another member of HDJ who can behave less like a venomous village idiot.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by JS42UK on 22.08.13 12:14


ROBERT GREEN'S "20 QUESTIONS" ABOUT HOLLIE'S CASE



Posted on April 23, 2011 by Admin
From Robert's blog, 8th April 2011

1. How can Grampian Police justify failing to interview persons named by Hollie as abusers simply because their names were not on police records ? The fact that I do not have a criminal record did not stop them from arresting me.


2. Why did Grampian Police not interview expert medical witnesses such as Dr Eva Harding, the psychologist whose report clearly stated that Hollie had been a victim of abuse, or Dr Paul Carter, who diagnosed Hollie as suffering from an STD at the age of 10?

3. Why did police officer Leanne Davidson instigate the sectioning of Anne shortly after Hollie made the allegations about a wider paedophile ring ?

4. Why did social worker Catherine Mason falsely claim that Anne's sectioning order had been signed by John Logan JP ?

5. How was BBC reporter Mark Daly able to obtain the post mortem report on Roy Greig, Hollies uncle, several months after the BBC abandoned their documentary ?

6. Why have none of the persons accused of being members of a paedophile rape gang launched a civil action for defamation ?

7. Why did Lord Advocate, Elish Angiolini, instruct lawyers Levy & MacRae to write to the Scottish media warning them not to cover the Hollie Greig case ? 

8. How can the Crown Office justify refusing to answer a Freedom of Information request regarding whether or not Angiolini paid her own legal bills "on the basis that it would be likely to prejudice substantially the prevention and detection of crime" ?

9. Who gave the instruction to arrest me for Breach of the Peace in Aberdeen in February 2010 ?

10. Why were my first four court appearances "in camera" ie behind closed doors ?

11. Why is the Crown demanding I am subject to such punitive bail conditions which are unheard of for a charge of Breach of the Peace ?

12. If the Crown believes my offences are so serious why are they prosecuting the case on a summary basis (without a jury) rather than on a solemn basis (with a jury) which carries more severe penalties ?

13. Why did Grampian Police falsely claim that the warrant to search my property was signed by a PC Vreades ? Fourteen months after the event I have yet to see this warrant.

14. Was John Smithies sacked from his position as Press Officer for the Downs Syndrome Association as a result of his support for Hollie ?


15. Why did West Mercia Police carry out a raid on Anne and Hollie's house in June 2010 on the grounds that they believed Hollie to be in danger ? An hour and a half before the raid I had told them I had no concern's for her welfare.

16. Why did Shropshire Council lie about the fact that they had prior knowledge of this raid ?

17. How did photographs of the Greig family appear on the blog of a person hostile to them shortly after the raid ?

18. How can the Court of Session justify asking me to pay the costs of a private detective hired by a person who has taken an Interdict out against me ?

19. Why did the Crown drop the original charges against myself and replace them with new ones in January 2011 ? I suspect this was purely to force me to re-apply for Legal Aid.

20. How can the Scottish Legal Aid Board justify refusing me Legal Aid in 2011 when my financial position is considerably worse than it was when I was awarded Legal Aid in 2010 ? [Robert has now had his legal aid reinstated - anything to do with having recently visited a certain area of British Home Stores Glasgow?! Ed.] 

Original Article at Hollie Demands Justice http://holliedemandsjustice.org/content ... lies-case/[/font]

Read more: http://www.disclose.tv/forum/robert-green-thrown-in-jail-for-1-year-hollie-greig-t68008-320.html#ixzz2ch3BsX6T
[/color]

JS42UK, who was banned as HOLLIEGREIGJUSTICE, has been banned again. We will leave this post up in case anyone from the 'Hollie Greig Hoax' campaign is able to answer any of Robert Green's '20 Questions' - ADMIN

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Woofer on 22.08.13 12:41

That Disclose.TV forum is appaulling - full of abusive and ignorant cling-ons.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Woofer on 22.08.13 12:45

Mods - are you going to ban everyone that speaks for the HDJ campaign?

JS42UK is the same individual as HOLLIEGREIGJUSTICE - only one person has been banned. He was banned for ignoring a formal warning made public on this thread not to make unsubstantiated allegations. He immediately ignored that warning by doing so. Anyone from HDJ is more than welcome to contribute here, provided they abide by forum rules and good manners. It is likely that the chief HDJ campaigners are all well aware of this thread, but as yet, none of them has put in an appearance - ADMIN

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Guest on 22.08.13 14:30

I certainly will be interested to hear if there is any truth in the allegation that the press officer of the Down's Syndrome Association was sacked for supporting Anne Greig.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.08.13 14:45

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I certainly will be interested to hear if there is any truth in the allegation that the press officer of the Down's Syndrome Association was sacked for supporting Anne Greig.
I can confirm that that is the case. He was convinced of the truth of Anne Greig's claims, and began saying so openly. The Director of the Down's Syndrome Association (DSA) considered that this would being discredit on the DSA and sacked him. In retrospect, she seems to have made a wise decision.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Guest on 22.08.13 14:50

I wonder if he still has the same views now that there is a lot more information available. 

We can only hope that the director knew that the claims were false and not of course that she was in with the conspiracy!


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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by susible on 22.08.13 17:07

@Tony Bennett wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I certainly will be interested to hear if there is any truth in the allegation that the press officer of the Down's Syndrome Association was sacked for supporting Anne Greig.
 I can confirm that that is the case. He was convinced of the truth of Anne Greig's claims, and began saying so openly. The Director of the Down's Syndrome Association (DSA) considered that this would being discredit on the DSA and sacked him. In retrospect, she seems to have made a wise decision.
I'm not surprised they sacked him to be honest, considering the claims about Hollie being "unable to tell a lie" and attributing that to her Down's Syndrome, furthermore, many of the points that have been previously mentioned regarding this alleged abuse having gone unnoticed for 14 years, with reference to the personal care that Hollie would have required from appropriate adults, is quite frankly unbelievable. 

Additionally, many people involved in the DSA have first hand knowledge of individuals with the syndrome and would be well aware that Hollie's claims would have been most unlikely to have come from Hollie herself, given her level of understanding and ability.

Finally, I imagine that they considered how could someone of Hollie's limited ability have been put in the position for this abuse to have occurred over such a long period of time, and have obviously come to the conclusion given all of the available information, that the abuse just did not happen, and therefore having a press officer who was of the opinion that it did, against all of the known facts, would be a loose cannon who could do a lot of damage to the organisation, and ultimately the people who depend upon it.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by susible on 22.08.13 17:25

I would also like to say that I agree with Admins decision to ban the HGJ poster, as they were not adding anything to the debate, and instead hurling abuse and insults and making extremely serious allegations against individuals, with no evidence whatsoever (other than Robert Green's videos and Anne Greig's testimony)

However, I too would welcome a reasoned poster, who could answer all of the questions that myself and others have asked in this thread.  The practical questions such as how when Hollie required supervision at all times could the alleged abuse have occurred?  Why was the abuse not spotted until 14 years after it allegedly began.

But sadly from my experience in the last couple of years, I've not come across a single supporter who can answer these and other pertinent questions in a civilized and intelligent manner.

I think I may be able to answer one of Robert Green's questions though, about why did Elish Angiolini, instruct lawyers Levy & MacRae to write to the Scottish media warning them not to cover the Hollie Greig case ? 


The answer is quite simple, to protect a very vulnerable young woman, Hollie herself, as well as many others who were alleged to have been abused, even though they all strenuously deny that they were, with some of those who were allegedly abused not even having been born at the time of the alleged abuse, from press intrusion and further distress from the allegations.  Additionally, that protection extended to those who were accused, without any evidence whatsoever, from the same intrusion and further distress.


Apologies for the font change, but I copied the question directly and can't seem to revert it to the normal font.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Woofer on 22.08.13 18:32

I was only surprised that JS43UK had been banned because I thought it was a good idea to put up RG`s questions and wasn`t aware of any rudeness or any similarity to HDJ. Anyway I`m pleased the questions have been left for those in the know to answer.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by susible on 22.08.13 18:56

@Woofer wrote:I was only surprised that JS42UK had been banned because I thought it was a good idea to put up RG`s questions and wasn`t aware of any rudeness or any similarity to HDJ. Anyway I`m pleased the questions have been left for those in the know to answer.
Sadly I don't think his attitude was going to change though, and it was almost guaranteed that within a couple of posts it would be the same as before.

I also think that the majority, if not all of the questions are easily answered, if not by irrefutable facts, then certainly by common sense, I answered that specific question in my previous post because it seems obvious to me under the circumstances why the press would be asked not to report the case


ADMIN NOTE:

Woofer wrote:  "I was only surprised that JS42UK had been banned because I thought it was a good idea to put up RG`s questions and wasn`t aware of any rudeness or any similarity to HDJ. Anyway I`m pleased the questions have been left for those in the know to answer".

Your reaction was quite understandable because - as you say - you were not aware of any rudeness or any similarity to HGJ. Unfortunately, JS42UK, who definitely is the same individual as HGJ, not only posted up the list of Robert Green's questions but, at the same time, posted personal, abusive and unsubstantiated allegations against other people which simply couldn't be allowed to remain on our forum. That's why you (and hopefully not many others) didn't see them. Admin does not have any issue whatseover with people from the HDJ campaign coming on here and politely explaining their case. Indeed we wish they would.  

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by gg on 22.08.13 20:58

FURTHER ADMIN NOTE: gg's post has been removed. The same individual is causing disruption. He is the only person so far from the Hollie Demands Justice campaign to venture here

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Sylvia Major on 22.08.13 22:39

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I've never heard mention of Anne's mother before; are you able to say any more about her and what she did to turn Anne against her? Is she still alive?
 
Who are the other two Mackies - Graeme and Gillian - who appear on some lists?
 
I've just noticed that HGJ (Malcolm) has left the building - but not of his own volition. I hope that there might be another member of HDJ who can behave less like a venomous village idiot.


-------------

Hi NFWTD,,,
Anne's mother died a few years ago, I only met her a few times before Denis and Anne got married , the last time I saw her was when my mother , my girls and myself visited them in Turriff, an hour north of Aberdeen, . She was a nice ordinary woman ,always polite and welcoming to my mother and myself,, She stayed with Denis and Anne and Roy and looked after Hollie., however, I believe Anne did not get on too well with her mother... When Anne finally got in touch with me again after 18 years her mother had died a couple of years earlier in 1994...... Graeme Mackie is Denis's younger brother , Gillian is his wife,, It is their children who were accused alongside my children of being abused in my house, however , Graeme's children were not even born then............

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Woofer on 23.08.13 23:26

I didn`t realise that Operation Yewtree are now investigating the Hollie Greig case - RG mentions it in his blog - that he was approached by Operation Yewtree officers and went down to London and passed on all the information he had to them - can this be true?

Also today`s UK Column broadcast said so (they haven`t changed their stance on RG).

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Don Quixote on 24.08.13 7:49

Operation Yewtree are definitely NOT investigating this case. As a rule of thumb you can assume that every word spoken by Robert Green and UK Column is a lie.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by susible on 24.08.13 8:06

I have had a good search around woofer and the only reference to Yewtree being involved is on Robert Green's blog.  And bear in mind that yewtree was investigating Savile and related people, mostly celebs etc so very doubtful that its reach would extend to an entirely unrelated set of allegations.  Although I'm not in the least surprised that Green has yet again tried to hitch his wagon to yet another high profile case in order to further his own agenda, remember the accusations made about Denis Mackie when the McCann case first emerged, even the McCanns dismissed the claims that Denis and his son could be involved in Madeleine's disappearance, but it hasn't stopped Robert Green claiming they were.

They have repeatedly tried to link so many things, including (in very bad taste imo) the Dunblane massacre to the alleged abuse of Hollie, that you would be forgiven for thinking that absolutely everything in the whole of the UK was somehow connected in some nefarious cover up, which is just not true.  Even a die hard conspiracy theorist would have trouble believing some of the claims that Robert Green has made.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Woofer on 24.08.13 8:08

@Don Quixote wrote: Operation Yewtree are definitely NOT investigating this case. As a rule of thumb you can assume that every word spoken by Robert Green and UK Column is a lie.
Hello Don Quixote - but how do you know? Do you have links with OY?

Your last sentence is a rather sweeping statement but too simplistic.

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Re: HOLLIE GREIG: The 'devastating fantasies' of mother Mrs Anne Greig - and the lies of Robert Green and Belinda McKenzie

Post by Woofer on 24.08.13 8:21

@susible wrote:I have had a good search around woofer and the only reference to Yewtree being involved is on Robert Green's blog.  And bear in mind that yewtree was investigating Savile and related people, mostly celebs etc so very doubtful that its reach would extend to an entirely unrelated set of allegations.  Although I'm not in the least surprised that Green has yet again tried to hitch his wagon to yet another high profile case in order to further his own agenda, remember the accusations made about Denis Mackie when the McCann case first emerged, even the McCanns dismissed the claims that Denis and his son could be involved in Madeleine's disappearance, but it hasn't stopped Robert Green claiming they were.

They have repeatedly tried to link so many things, including (in very bad taste imo) the Dunblane massacre to the alleged abuse of Hollie, that you would be forgiven for thinking that absolutely everything in the whole of the UK was somehow connected in some nefarious cover up, which is just not true.  Even a die hard conspiracy theorist would have trouble believing some of the claims that Robert Green has made.
Hi susible - yep, I had a good search round last night and couldn`t find any source apart from RG. Your post makes sense.  I watched the video of RG being interviewed about his travel agent business going bust and he does come across as a bit naive but desperately trying to be taken seriously - in fact the way he speaks reminded me of the comedian Ken Dodd.  It was not surprising that he was taken for a ride by his business partner because of his gullibility.

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