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Using the bathroom and a few other things.

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Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by Five Star on 28.07.13 0:49

Well I've been thinking about Maddie needing to use the bathroom in a COMPLETLEY DARK apartment with no adults around to switch the light on for her.
I mean those kids are priceless and there would have been other valuables lying around in the unlocked completely dark apartment??nah 
.....NNNNNNAAAAAA!!!!!!


I wonder if  there is any info on the last time(s) Maddie used the bathroom?

....Imagine eating your tapas meal and you look over to the apartment and see a light on, well you would panic would you not? ...not my idea of a nice meal or a relaxing time.

Another thing I've been thinking about is the person JT seen with a child, they had long(ish) dark hair, I refuse to believe that person would risk leaving one hair that would nail them for the crime when found. That person is made up , found Maddie outside or she was passed to him/her.....possibly by someone who has no hair on their head and is in possession of a hovering device....or something like that big grin 





P.s ....Links to older threads covering any of this would be great  dance      .... I doubt I've said anything that's not been said before, but you never know!

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by whmon on 28.07.13 1:35

I have wondered the same about the bathroom. The parents would have been aware that MBM would possibly get up to use the toilet. Was the light in the bathroom left on for her? This would show that they expected that she might wake up -alone. Was the light not left on for her? This is an even worse scenario, suggesting that they couldn't care less about her waking up alone in the dark. I feel the second suggestion is probably true.

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by Sceneset on 28.07.13 1:51

I don't feel they would have left a light on as they were so anxious for them to be and stay asleep . They didn't even switch one on during checks because of that. If many of the party were ill on occasion I'd be popping in the room periodically to see if they too had been sick and would have needed light for that.
I  feel sick when I read the McCanns quotes stating 'if we had thought, even for a minute it wasn't safe we wouldn't have left them' or words to that effect.

It is never ok if you can't see or hear them.

I 'm a parent and that means having responsibilities that curb my lifestyle.
I have been up to my little one three times tonight ( a toy was creating a scary shadow, wanted a drink and she banged her head on the bed turning over in her sleep ) it beggars belief they didn't think being sick, falling out bed, needing the loo, being scared, feeling alone on waking and panicking, an insect bite, a bad dream, etc are the reason the majority of parents don't go out of earshot of their children as the reasons to keep running back up the stairs are endless and necessary to make your child feel confident, loved and cared for...let alone the really serious incidents like fire or a burglary. They are either lying, completely devoid of any empathy, idiotic or selfish beyond measure.

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by lj on 28.07.13 3:57

@Sceneset wrote:I don't feel they would have left a light on as they were so anxious for them to be and stay asleep . They didn't even switch one on during checks because of that. If many of the party were ill on occasion I'd be popping in the room periodically to see if they too had been sick and would have needed light for that.
I  feel sick when I read the McCanns quotes stating 'if we had thought, even for a minute it wasn't safe we wouldn't have left them' or words to that effect.

It is never ok if you can't see or hear them.

I 'm a parent and that means having responsibilities that curb my lifestyle.
I have been up to my little one three times tonight ( a toy was creating a scary shadow, wanted a drink and she banged her head on the bed turning over in her sleep ) it beggars belief they didn't think being sick, falling out bed, needing the loo, being scared, feeling alone on waking and panicking, an insect bite, a bad dream, etc are the reason the majority of parents don't go out of earshot of their children as the reasons to keep running back up the stairs are endless and necessary to make your child feel confident, loved and cared for...let alone the really serious incidents like fire or a burglary. They are either lying, completely devoid of any empathy, idiotic or selfish beyond measure.

All of the above, classic narcissitic psychopaths.

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LIghting in apartment

Post by dentdelion on 28.07.13 8:28

I thought there was a side lamp left on in the living area of the apartment.

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by Guest on 28.07.13 9:16

@dentdelion wrote:I thought there was a side lamp left on in the living area of the apartment.

 Yes, IIRC according to statements, there was a lamp on in the living room.

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by PeterMac on 28.07.13 9:17

A lamp - to guide the abductor.

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by Guest on 28.07.13 9:18

According to Kate's Hello magazine type account of that last evening in the "truthful" book, she mentioned the usual "teeth and toilet" routine - an unsettling combination, though I don't know if those were the exact words she used.

Don't forget that Kate said (so it must be true!) that her children were good sleepers so no need to worry her thoughtless head about calls of nature.

Just an afterthought, some children as old as Madeleine are still in nappies / diapers at night.

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by Angelique on 28.07.13 9:22

Yes, I was about to post that she would probably be wearing some "night nappies". It would seem most likely as how would they know when she would require to go to the bathroom to fit in with their "checking". They could not see when she would leave the bedroom to go to the bathroom. It all begins to fall apart really.

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Using the bathroom and a few other things

Post by Monty Heck on 28.07.13 12:35

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:According to Kate's Hello magazine type account of that last evening in the "truthful" book, she mentioned the usual "teeth and toilet" routine - an unsettling combination, though I don't know if those were the exact words she used.

Don't forget that Kate said (so it must be true!) that her children were good sleepers so no need to worry her thoughtless head about calls of nature.

Just an afterthought, some children as old as Madeleine are still in nappies / diapers at night.

MMcC would have been the only one of the children to have required a "teeth and toilet" routine as the other two were in nappies, although this passage gave the impression that all 3 were involved.  However, I simply cannot accept that any of these children were left with the frightening possibility of wakening while parents were absent, or of getting out of bed for that matter.  That can be the only basis for the "responsible parenting" claims - what other way is there to ensure they were not left to wake in the dark or get up to mischief?  Giving children a helping hand to get them/keep them asleep is still far from responsible as sickness, fire or indeed intrusion into unlocked premises seem never to have entered the equation come decision making time about the week's evening activities.  All IMO.

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by Five Star on 28.07.13 20:01

A group of friends went out for dinner and were seen with baby monitors, that probably meant they were leaving the children alone to anyone who noticed.

Anyone who noticed the light on in the living room could have thought people were in there, even if they could get a peek inside...., the thought of someone being in a room or part of the apartment they could not see (shower/bath room etc) would put them of entering. ...along with dropping one hair, leaving prints, dna , waking the children, BEING HEARD ON THE BABY MONITOR...oops can't say that...forget that last comment titter ...





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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by PeterMac on 28.07.13 20:47

The whole "teeth and toilet" thing gets hopelessly complicated when combined with the tea and biscuits in bed which in one account happens AFTER teeth cleaning.

Apart from the fact that there is no reason to mention it at all.

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by Guest on 28.07.13 22:33

To me it's just a way of padding out a story - and by story I mean pure fiction - it just didn't happen.

Does anyone really clean their children's teeth before bedtime (I really do hope that the shared toothbrush is a forum myth as it's so gross) and then give them something to eat and drink afterwards?

To think that these people are doctors - aaagh

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by Five Star on 01.08.13 18:52

It seems that  "abductor"  had a haircut half way up the road, ...forgot to add that spin

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by Five Star on 17.10.13 23:22

Just sommore thoughts,

I wonder if Madeleine was given any advice like "don't leave the flat If you wake up"? "be careful if you use the toilet"? "if we are not there, just wait a little while til we are back and don't worry"? 

Maybe she was not told about being left alone, if that's the case, if she woke up the first thing she would do is go looking (outside near the pool or tennis court?)
....were the doors locked or open? ....why would someone say she would not have just wandered off like the policeman suggested? ....because the were locked?

Is that why MO just "listened"  ...no key?

A regular 20min/30min check carried out by people who have had a glass or three of wine could wake a child up easily! imo


MO said "all is quiet"   does that mean he only used his ears?  ..... me wonders!  thinking

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by ultimaThule on 18.10.13 4:37

@Sceneset wrote:They are either lying, completely devoid of any empathy, idiotic or selfish beyond measure.
Delete 'either' and replace 'or' with 'and' to describe the McCanns and their friends, all of whom have the self-entitled traits of narcisissist personalities and one of whom is most definitely a psychopath.

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by tigger on 18.10.13 6:57



  1. Five Star
Just sommore thoughts,

I wonder if Madeleine was given any advice like "don't leave the flat If you wake up"? "be careful if you use the toilet"? "if we are not there, just wait a little while til we are back and don't worry"? 

Maybe she was not told about being left alone, if that's the case, if she woke up the first thing she would do is go looking (outside near the pool or tennis court?)
....were the doors locked or open? ....why would someone say she would not have just wandered off like the policeman suggested? ....because the were locked?

Is that why MO just "listened"  ...no key?

A regular 20min/30min check carried out by people who have had a glass or three of wine could wake a child up easily! imo


MO said "all is quiet"   does that mean he only used his ears?  ..... me wonders!  thinking
Waking up was exactly what Maddie wasn't supposed to do. Illustrated by a shaking motion by Kate in an interview where the crying episode was performed. 
Kate says:' what do you mean you woke up?'  Shaking motion with both hands as if she was gripping a child by the shoulders.NOT ' Why were you crying? ' 

Another point is that Gerry has mentioned that the group would use  5a as a 'toilet stop'  surely flushing would wake them up?  
There is also a remark from JT about Gery's lengthy absence from the table due to watching football. 
Noisy lock on the front door. 
Footsteps on tiles. 
Flushing loo. 
Live commentary on football on TV. 

Maddie was a light sleeper. 

But re JT's. footie remark -  it tells me that Gerry was away from the table for much longer than ten minutes, possibly from 9.30 onwards.

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by Searcher on 18.10.13 8:07

Football??  Would you have a link pse?  I have never heard that before.

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by Guest on 18.10.13 8:57

There's at least two topics on Gerry watching football - maybe. This is the most recent one.

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8014-may07-a-football-fest?highlight=football

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by Mirage on 18.10.13 9:36

Football is a sensitive subject for GM. He cuts JT off in Mockumentary (4/5) when she says KM had commented he must be watching footie as he'd been a long time on a check. Wasn't footie shown at Chaplins - the bar further on down the road?

I wonder what the row was really about. The one that led to KM sleeping in the children's room. And on what night? Not the lame bit about GM getting up from table and saying goodnight and mosying off without her, surely. They're too feisty. Especially after a couple or three glasses of wine. And you always get that jarring extra detail of someone commenting/making a joke on a tricky area of the story. It's like a telegram being sent. Was it DP this time who made a wisecrack, something about her attractiveness?

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by Searcher on 18.10.13 9:44

One version has it that GM was 'flirting' (quiz night?) and KM reacted.  It might be good to look at that more.  I have often wondered about it.  Sleeping in the children's room has been excused due to GM's snoring in one version and being angry with him in another.  But I wonder about it, also whether it was the night of 2nd May, if anyone has a link?

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by bodiddly on 18.10.13 9:49

What gets me the most is as a parent myself I have to physically see my children when I am checking on them. Listening at the door is pointless. Not hearing them does not mean they are ok. Even more importantly, if I was checking on someone else's child, the need to physically see them would be even greater. I would have to see them to report back with certainty that they were fine. For my own conscience more than anything. It's a massive responsibility. 
To check on someone else's child is to look out for them for those moments. Massive responsibility. If you have ever looked after someone else's child you will know exactly where I am coming from.

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by PeterMac on 18.10.13 9:54

@Searcher wrote:One version has it that GM was 'flirting' (quiz night?) and KM reacted.  It might be good to look at that more.  I have often wondered about it.  Sleeping in the children's room has been excused due to GM's snoring in one version and being angry with him in another.  But I wonder about it, also whether it was the night of 2nd May, if anyone has a link?
Yes it was the 2nd.   (According to the book ! !)
At about 11.50pm, Gerry abruptly announced, ‘Right, I’m off to bed. Goodnight.’ As he turned to leave, Dave said jokingly, ‘She’s not that bad, Gerry!’ I must admit I was slightly hurt that Gerry should just go off without me, as if I was unimportant – irrelevant, even – and Dave’s remark was an indication that it wasn’t just me being over-sensitive. Let me tell you something about Gerry. His honesty and openness make him very direct, often to the point of bluntness, and he’s not a touchy-feely guy. Like many men, he assumes I take his feelings as read and doesn’t see any need to express them with soft-soaping, flowers or cards. And although, like most women, I would appreciate the odd romantic gesture, the fact that he has always been loyal, solid and loving deep down, where it really matters, is far more important. It’s just Gerry, I’m used to his foibles and generally any deficiencies in gallantry simply go over my head.
As far as Gerry was concerned, it was late, he was tired, and he was going to bed. End of story. I am not sure why I was miffed by his lack of social graces that particular evening. Perhaps because the other guys in the group were all attentive ‘new men’, compared with Gerry, at least, and I was a bit embarrassed. Anyway, I followed him a few minutes later. He certainly was tired, because by the time I got into the apartment, he was asleep – snoring, in fact. Still feeling a bit offended, I decided to go and sleep with the children. This was highly unusual; unprecedented, even: the only occasions when we ever slept apart were when our jobs and on-call duties dictated it. I wasn’t the type to flounce off to the spare room and never would have done so at home.
I suppose it was because there was a bed made up and ready in the other bedroom and at that moment my peaceful, slumbering babies were more attractive room-mates than my snoring husband. It was a storm in a teacup, and I’m loath even to mention it as it was such an isolated incident and not at all representative of our relationship. However, since every scrap of information was shortly to become potentially crucial, I feel it is necessary to state for the record that I was in that room that night.
Though it can have no bearing that I can imagine on subsequent events, the thought of Gerry and me sleeping alone on this of all nights still makes me feel sad.
5
MISSING
  On Thursday 3 May I awoke in the children’s bedroom.


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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by Guest on 18.10.13 9:56

@Searcher wrote:One version has it that GM was 'flirting' (quiz night?) and KM reacted.  It might be good to look at that more.  I have often wondered about it.  Sleeping in the children's room has been excused due to GM's snoring in one version and being angry with him in another.  But I wonder about it, also whether it was the night of 2nd May, if anyone has a link?
Hello Searcher,

KH says she slept in the childrens bedroom

Ergo not in Gerries bedroom

Ergo, there was no one there, with Gerry,

Ergo, there is no one who can vouch for him having actually been in that bedroom there that night;

So IF 'it' happened before the 3rd, and IF the body of the child Maddie McCann had to be got rid of/removed/hidden what have you, then there is one complete night when this could have been executed with impunity: the night Gerry 'slept alone'

QED

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Re: Using the bathroom and a few other things.

Post by Guest on 18.10.13 10:04

@PeterMac wrote:A lamp - to guide the abductor.
In the UK reconstruction the parents leave, and a light stays on in the apartment. 

So the parents want the UK audience to see/believe that they have left a light on, there and then

I.m. beginning to understand we must not look at images as what we see with our own eyes, but as what they want us to believe was there, because its being there serves a purpose of the McCs, and the McCs only.

Which could very well be totally different things!

Look at how they are now stitching up MO and ROB in their own Dutch-German 'reconstruct', showing how these two hapless bystanders forcefully prevented KH from getting up from the table to check on her own children

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