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Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by sallypelt on 23.07.13 15:58

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I was about to ask if she could have helped with Kate's book.

Maybe they both enrolled on the same course for learning how to write novels in the Barbara Cartland style; not I hasten to add that Barbara had an imagination lurid enough to mention some of the things that Kate did.


Bridget O'Donnell is a writer and director. The fee from this article will be donated to the Find Madeleine fund (findmadeleine.com).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by tigger on 23.07.13 17:36

@Newintown wrote:
@tigger wrote:Perhaps she gave Kate a helping hand with her book? Especially as a book was announced as early as 2008 (april I believe). Originally it was going to be titled  'Our year of Hell'.

The similarity of style - interesting!

That remark about the uncomfortable policeman and Kate calling them Tweedledee and Tweedledum. Too similar to be coincidence?

That piece of fiction O'Donnell wrote was in December 07 I believe. The  damage control in full flow.

That thought went through my head as well, when russiandoll compared the likeness of writing styles.   If KM and BOD weren't supposed to know each other, why would you help someone write a book when you've only had a few conversations with them on holiday. How did BOD not know whether KM & GM were involved in Madeleine's disappearance.

I think there's more to the relationship than what has been said, too many coincidences in this whole charade.

Don't forget that the McCanns made friends with the nannies, probably friends with a few other people who'd be useful. They were world famous within days, it's often the case that such status is infectious. Everybody wants a part of it. Those who didn't know the McCanns went to Portugal on literally 'stunts' to share in the publicity (psychics, pseudo SAS soldiers etc) others threw themselves into fund raising with publicity the main aim.
So if BO wanted to be 'part of it' she'd happily testify to Kate's sainthood and comparing the Diary and the book - keeping in mind that Kate isn't the most articulate of speakers, I'd say it's very likely that someone like O'Donnell would help. It would serve two purposes, the writing and keeping JW and BO 'onside'.
That's how these things are done imo.

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by Newintown on 23.07.13 17:57

@tigger wrote:
@Newintown wrote:
@tigger wrote:Perhaps she gave Kate a helping hand with her book? Especially as a book was announced as early as 2008 (april I believe). Originally it was going to be titled  'Our year of Hell'.

The similarity of style - interesting!

That remark about the uncomfortable policeman and Kate calling them Tweedledee and Tweedledum. Too similar to be coincidence?

That piece of fiction O'Donnell wrote was in December 07 I believe. The  damage control in full flow.

That thought went through my head as well, when russiandoll compared the likeness of writing styles.   If KM and BOD weren't supposed to know each other, why would you help someone write a book when you've only had a few conversations with them on holiday. How did BOD not know whether KM & GM were involved in Madeleine's disappearance.

I think there's more to the relationship than what has been said, too many coincidences in this whole charade.

Don't forget that the McCanns made friends with the nannies, probably friends with a few other people who'd be useful. They were world famous within days, it's often the case that such status is infectious. Everybody wants a part of it. Those who didn't know the McCanns went to Portugal on literally 'stunts' to share in the publicity (psychics, pseudo SAS soldiers etc) others threw themselves into fund raising with publicity the main aim.
So if BO wanted to be 'part of it' she'd happily testify to Kate's sainthood and comparing the Diary and the book - keeping in mind that Kate isn't the most articulate of speakers, I'd say it's very likely that someone like O'Donnell would help. It would serve two purposes, the writing and keeping JW and BO 'onside'.
That's how these things are done imo
.

Yes, of course, I never thought about that. You're very astute.  yes

And JW was also involved with "Crimewatch" (producer?), couldl that be why GM wanted a "Crimewatch" reconstruction done on TV so he could manipulate JW into doing a version of K & G McCann's idea of events on 3rd May.

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by tigger on 23.07.13 19:05

Phew! blushing here, thank you.roses I do think the factors I mentioned are important to keep in mind. Not so much conspiracy as getting on the bandwagon.

Here's another pearl I just dug up: re JW
Re: Could Something Have Happened to Madeleine Earlier in the Week?
jd wrote:
During the evening of Wednesday 31 October 2007, Jeremy and Bridget were visited at heir home address by DC 1756 and DC 4356 from the Leicestershire OP Task team:
LEICESTERSHIRE CONSTABULARY
OFFICER’S REPORT

Date: 05/11/07

He did not meet up with Gerry or any of the group again until Tues 1 May 07.
This was again during a tennis session and it was at this time he met some of the group and realized that the people he met on the Plane were indeed part of the group.

Jeremy explained that he used the crèche facility provided by the resort. This was a child care facility which allowed parents to leave their children, aged between 3 – 5 yrs old, with trained staff at various times of the day. He recalled walking to the crèche with Gerry who had left Madeleine with the staff. This was about 1230 hrs on Tues 1 May. He then went on to explain that the children could be left with the staff during the evening and that most would be picked up before 10pm. It was not an unusual sight to see people walking through the site at night with a child in their arms asleep. The crèche would also provide a blanket to cover the child if required. He had taken up this facility hence his knowledge of the procedure.

Jeremy and Bridget became aware that although the McCanns had taken up the use of the crèche facility during the day, they had not done so for the evening hours and had left the children in the apartment but were checking on them regularly and that other members of the group appeared to be doing the same.
They expressed surprise over this as the McCanns apartment was set in a location that appeared vulnerable. They were aware that the apartment was a corner building and with easy access from the road. The apartments were not very secure and entry could easily be gained.

Several weeks later, Jeremy received calls from Gerry in relation to gaining permission from him to use his name in a portfolio of evidence being compiled by an organization employed by the McCanns. They were very persistent and made several attempts to contact him both at work and at home. They had no objection to being included but were concerned as to the method being used.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY_BRIGET.htm



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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell

Post by Monty Heck on 23.07.13 19:45

@tigger wrote:Phew! blushing here, thank you.roses I do think the factors I mentioned are important to keep in mind. Not so much conspiracy as getting on the bandwagon.

Here's another pearl I just dug up: re JW
Re: Could Something Have Happened to Madeleine Earlier in the Week?
jd wrote:
During the evening of Wednesday 31 October 2007, Jeremy and Bridget were visited at heir home address by DC 1756 and DC 4356 from the Leicestershire OP Task team:
LEICESTERSHIRE CONSTABULARY
OFFICER’S REPORT

Date: 05/11/07

He did not meet up with Gerry or any of the group again until Tues 1 May 07.
This was again during a tennis session and it was at this time he met some of the group and realized that the people he met on the Plane were indeed part of the group.

Jeremy explained that he used the crèche facility provided by the resort. This was a child care facility which allowed parents to leave their children, aged between 3 – 5 yrs old, with trained staff at various times of the day. He recalled walking to the crèche with Gerry who had left Madeleine with the staff. This was about 1230 hrs on Tues 1 May. He then went on to explain that the children could be left with the staff during the evening and that most would be picked up before 10pm. It was not an unusual sight to see people walking through the site at night with a child in their arms asleep. The crèche would also provide a blanket to cover the child if required. He had taken up this facility hence his knowledge of the procedure.

Jeremy and Bridget became aware that although the McCanns had taken up the use of the crèche facility during the day, they had not done so for the evening hours and had left the children in the apartment but were checking on them regularly and that other members of the group appeared to be doing the same.
They expressed surprise over this as the McCanns apartment was set in a location that appeared vulnerable. They were aware that the apartment was a corner building and with easy access from the road. The apartments were not very secure and entry could easily be gained.

Several weeks later, Jeremy received calls from Gerry in relation to gaining permission from him to use his name in a portfolio of evidence being compiled by an organization employed by the McCanns. They were very persistent and made several attempts to contact him both at work and at home. They had no objection to being included but were concerned as to the method being used.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY_BRIGET.htm


Re comments highlighted in bold red

  • completely with you regarding folks leaping on the bandwagon for all sorts of reasons, rather than a conspiracy 
  • interesting to know just when JW and BOD discussed the vulnerability and ease of access to the McCs apartment.  Quite odd that the McCs appear never to have had any qualms whatsoever regarding JW, despite his being in the vicinity of 5A around "abduction time" and their awareness that he knew their routine was (apparently) to leave their children alone of an evening. 

For all they knew he could have been abetting an abductor by keeping GMcC chatting while M was being spirited away so it would have been the most natural thing in the world if they had, initially at least, demanded he be thoroughly checked out personally and also questioned closely about anything/anyone at all he may have seen in the vicinity.  Instead he was briefly visited by one of the T9 in the early hours of 4 May and informed MM was missing  but his assistance was not needed, no questions asked, nothing.  

In those early moments especially, everyone, ANYONE would come under suspicion but not in this case.  The entire group and even a casual acquaintance such as JW were above suspicion from the get go.  It would be interesting to know on what grounds.......

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by Lance De Boils on 23.07.13 21:11

Of course JT seeing bundleman serves not only to give Gerry an alibi, but JW as well. Maybe the latter was more important than the former?

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by russiandoll on 24.07.13 9:19

@tigger wrote:Perhaps she gave Kate a helping hand with her book? Especially as a book was announced as early as 2008 (april I believe). Originally it was going to be titled  'Our year of Hell'.

The similarity of style - interesting!

That remark about the uncomfortable policeman and Kate calling them Tweedledee and Tweedledum. Too similar to be coincidence?

That piece of fiction O'Donnell wrote was in December 07 I believe. The  damage control in full flow.


   You mean this from BOD which I highlighted, Tigger ?



   "He was breathless, perhaps a little excited... He reminded me of a boy in my class who was bullied "

 compared to this from Kate :

" To me they seemed bewildered and out of their depth, and I couldn't shake the images of Tweedledum and Tweedledee out of my head."
 
  Just read he sentences out loud and note the almost identical rhythm you get.

  I already compared " Kate's back and shoulders, her hands, her mouth had reshaped themselves into the angular-manifestation of a silent scream," from BOD to a passage from Kate's book . There is also this from Kate :

 " My limbs writhed and jerked continually, as if I were compelled to keep moving them to shake off the agony that held me in its grip"

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by tasprin on 24.07.13 11:27

Extracts from My Months with Madeleine

Excitedly, we were shown to our apartments. Ours was on the fourth floor, overlooking a family and toddler pool, opposite a restaurant and bar called the Tapas. I worried about the height of the balcony. Should we ask for one on the ground floor? Was I a paranoid parent? Should I make a fuss, or just enjoy the view?

The balcony at the back of  apartment 5A is well above ground level and a small child falling from it could easily have resulted in serious injury or a fatality.

One morning, I saw Gerry and his wife Kate on their balcony, chatting to their friends on the path below. Privately I was glad we didn't get their apartment. It was on a corner by the road and people could see in. They were exposed

O’Donnell describes how exposed to the road and footpath apartment 5A was - not really like dining in your back garden after all. I don’t know anyone with a tapas bar (with plastic covers restricting the view) and a swimming pool in their back garden which are only accessible from the main road via security gates. Who lives in a house like that?

He [GM] told us they were leaving theirs sleeping in the apartments. While they chatted on, I ruminated on the pros and cons of this. I admired them, in a way, for not being paranoid parents, but I decided that our apartment was too far off even to contemplate it. Our baby was too young and I would worry about them waking up.

Although she was worried about the dangers of the balcony in her own apartment, O’Donnell was glad she didn’t get apartment 5A as she regarded it as more dangerous because it was exposed to the road and people could see in…yet she still admired the McCanns for not being paranoid about leaving three very young children in such a precarious situation night after night, and she didn’t appear to see anything remotely odd about the McCanns broadcasting their alarming childcare arrangements to complete strangers. And this woman worked on Crimewatch?

"Gerry's daughter's been abducted," he said. "She ..." I jumped up and went to check our children. They were there. We sat down. We got up again. Weirdly, I did the washing-up. We wondered what to do. Jes had asked if they needed help searching and was told there was nothing he could do; she had been missing for three hours. Jes felt he should go anyway, but I wanted him to stay with us. I was a coward, afraid to be alone with the children - and afraid to be alone with my thoughts.

‘My months with Madeleine’ is an ironic title for the article considering O’Donnell barely mentions Madeleine or what horrors she might have endured had she been abducted. She and Wilkins did nothing to help the search, in fact she didn’t even want Jes to search for the missing toddler on the night she vanished because she was too afraid to be alone with her thoughts apparently - what an extraordinary statement - most women would have encouraged their partners to help if they knew a three year old child was missing. A few months later O’Donnell managed to find the time to exploit Madeleine for self-publicity with this cloying Mills and Boon drivel which focussed on the parents, discrediting the police and implicating Robert Murat -she generously donated the proceeds to the parents fund at a time when they were both police suspects in the child’s disappearance. Somehow O’Donnell just knew that the parents, who were strangers to her and who had lied and refused to cooperate throughout, were innocent - but she had no such qualms about condemning Robert Murat to further ridicule and suspicion, simply because of his appearance and an eye defect caused by a medical condition.

I once worked as a producer in the BBC crime unit. I directed many reconstructions and spent my second pregnancy producing new investigations for Crimewatch. Detectives would call me daily, detailing their cases, and some stories stay with me still, such as the ones about a girl being snatched from her bath, or her bike, or her garden and then held in the passenger seat, or stuffed in the boot. There was always a vehicle, and the first few hours were crucial to the outcome. Afterwards, they would be dumped naked in an alley, or at a petrol station with a £10 note to "get a cab back to Mummy". They would be found within an hour or two. Sometimes.

Even O’Donnell’s professional knowledge of such shocking assaults on young children didn’t move her enough to send Jes out there to join the search. Instead they stayed in ‘wondering what to do’ and watched others search by torchlight. Doing something practical to find the missing girl in the crucial hours after her disappearance, seemed beyond the Crimewatch producer. If all those people out searching that week had had the same attitude as O’Donnell, no one would have searched at all.

The next morning, we made our way to breakfast and met one of the Doctors, the one who had come round in the night. His young daughter looked up at us from her pushchair. There was no news. They had called Sky television - they didn't know what else to do. We didn't see any police.

What about joining the locals and holiday makers who WERE searching for the little girl, rather than calling Sky News? What use was Sky News? If anything, the sensationalist 24/7 media would have endangered the missing girl. O’Donnell says they didn’t see any police. Didn’t she watch Sky News? The police were all over the place.

Later, there was a knock on our apartment door and we let the two men in. One was a uniformed Portuguese policeman, the other his translator. The translator had a squint and sweated slightly. He was breathless, perhaps a little excited. We later found out he was Robert Murat. He reminded me of a boy in my class at school who was bullied.

With a few strokes of  her keyboard, O’Donnell neatly depicted Robert Murat as the stereotypical local paedo/weirdo, conveniently reinforcing the Tapas 7 accusations and the insidious comments from Clarence Mitchell, and his friend Lori Campbell who months earlier had labelled Murat as Ian Huntley mark 2. I wonder if in the process of writing this McCann PR piece any pressure was exerted on O’Donnell & Wilkins from certain quarters.

Through Murat we answered a few questions and gave our details, which the policeman wrote down on the back of a bit of paper. No notebook. Then he pointed to the photocopied picture of Madeleine on the table. "Is this your daughter?" he asked. "Er, no," we said. "That's the girl you are meant to be searching for." My heart sank for the McCanns.

O’Donnell’s heart obviously didn’t sink far enough for her or her partner Jes Wikins to actually do something helpful and, correct me if I‘m wrong, IIRC Jes Wilkins also refused to return for the reconstruction. Crocodile tears and another swipe at the police from a woman who didn’t want her partner (for her own selfish reasons) to search for the child on the night she vanished. As with so many of those closely connected to this case, she was all talk and no action from day one.

The British police came round shortly after our return. Jes was pleased to give them a statement. The Portuguese police had never asked.

Why is O’Donnell being deliberately dishonest here? Wilkins spoke to the PJ on Friday 4 May. She and Wilkins left the resort on Saturday 5 May and arrived back at their UK home on Sunday 6 May. The British police visited O’Donnell & Wilkins the day after their return home, Monday 7 May, as result of Goncalo Amaral faxing the British police as a matter of urgency, requesting collaboration. It‘s certain that before interviewing Wilkins, the British police would have been obliged to inform him of the official  PJ request but O’Donnell omits to mention this fact. Instead she gives the reader the impression that the British police turned up to interview Wilkins of their own volition because the PJ 'had never asked'. Perhaps she never envisaged the release of the PJ files:


FAX
CONFIDENTIAL/URGENT
To: Detective Chief Superintendent Robert Hall
From: Goncalo Amaral - C.I.C. no D.I.C. de PortimAo

Date: 07-05-2007 No pages : 03
N / ref: Inq. 201107.0 GALGS
Subject: Request for Collaboration

In furtherance of your operation TASK and international police cooperation please see the following points:

1. Could you consider making enquiries to question JEREMY MICHAEL WILKINS (UK Passport No. XXXXXX, DOB XXXXXX). Wilkins was staying at the Ocean Club resort at the time of Madeleine's disappearance and may have vital information. Wilkins lives at the following address, XXXXXX. Wilkins is contactable on the following telephone numbers XXXXXX and XXXXXX. We would like the following points covered if possible;

- Did Wilkins travel with anyone else?
- If he has children and what age are they?
- If he knows the group of people which MADELEINE MCCANN was part of and the apartment block where the guests were staying;
- If he knows MADELEINE'S parents and in particular her father GERALD MCCANN;
- When did he met GERALD MCCANN and in what circumstances;
- Did he play tennis with GERALD McCANN? Did he meet with him apart from playing tennis?
- Did he come to know the routine of GERALD McCANN and his family (his wife and children); If he did, when GERALD was having dinner with his wife and friends where were the children and how were they looked after?
- When was the last time he was with GERALD McCANN, when not playing tennis, before the disappearance of MADELEINE;
- On the day of the disappearance, was JEREMY out with his children in the evening? Did he meet GERALD and at what time? Where was GERALD coming from at this time?
- Exactly where was this meeting with GERALD (please obtain confirmation of the exact location on the attached map)? What was the distance of this meeting from GERALD'S apartment? Can Jeremy provide a sketch map of the location? What did they talk about at this time and for how long?
- When he was talking with GERALD, did any of Gerald's group pass by? If so, who?
- When he was talking with GERALD did he see whether anyone passed by carrying a child in the road near the apartment block?
2. In the spirit of police to police cooperation we request the presence of a British criminal analyst who may be able to assist the enquiry;
Also the collaboration of the UK's "Child Exploitation on Line Protection" may be useful if they wish to send one of their officers to provide assistance to the investigation;

3. We would like further information (by telephonic analysis if thought necessary) relevant to the investigation about the following subjects:
- GERALD McCANN and KATE HEALY contactable on telephone numbers XXXXXX, XXXXXX and XXXXXX.
- MATTHEW DAVID OLDFIELD and RACHAEL MAMPILLY, contactable on telephone numbers XXXXXX, XXXXXX and XXXXXX.
- RUSSEL JAMES O'BRIEN and JANE MICHELLE TANNER, contactable on telephone numbers XXXXXX and XXXXXX.
- DAVID ANTHONY PAYNE, contactable on telephone number XXXXXX, FIONA ELAINE PAYNE, contactable on telephone number XXXXXX and DIANNE WEBSTER, contactable on telephone number XXXXXX.
Namely if there is any indication of motive for anyone in the UK to kidnap the daughter of GERALD McCann.
Regards
P/O Coordinator of Criminal Investigation
(Goncalo Amaral)
Thanks to http://www.mccannfiles.com/id327.html

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by tigger on 24.07.13 11:42

bravo  Thank you so much for that post!

I can't imagine that in such a small community she hadn't either heard about or met Murat. He was into estate agency too and so was O'Donnell (see links in my other posts)
In fact she'd just started with a local estate agency. PdL had about 1000 inhabitants at the time, the rest of the population would be expats and holiday makers.

JW imo had nothing to do with the whole affair, but the media world is a tough one and no doubt they made the most of the McCann affair.
But JW  refused to change his statement or pick a  time and/or meeting place more suited to GM. He also complained about a form of harassment - being called at home and at work by TM. He certainly wouldn't have done that if he'd been involved in any way imo.

If he refused to take part in a reconstruction (haven't seen that anywhere) it might be because by that time O'Donnell had written her piece and perhaps some goodies were being dangled in front of their noses. Such as documentaries and ghost writing? All supposition of course.

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by PeterMac on 24.07.13 11:51

"Perhaps she never envisaged the release of the PJ files:"


Spot on.
I think a lot of people were totally exposed when the files were released and their blatant lies and attempts at retro-fitting would be seen by everyone, not merely by the PJ.
They thought they had got away with it. McCanns, Tanner, Mitchell and a lot of others.
But they haven't.

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by jozi on 24.07.13 12:01

@Lance De Boils wrote:Of course JT seeing bundleman serves not only to give Gerry an alibi, but JW as well. Maybe the latter was more important than the former?

Its all very strange everybody is connected in some way ? The fund was set up very quickly and all the Logos in place ? All the documents gone over with a fine tooth comb to make sure NO other missing child could use this fund ? SY messing about and not getting to the basics and fawning over the Mcs each and every time ? The Mcs shoved down our throats all the time ? So many lies told by the Mcs and friends that anyone with an IQ higher than a snail would spot ?

Whats going on here ???

Did anyone on THAT holiday actually SEE Maddie ???

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by Guest on 24.07.13 12:05

I think that the question needs to be phrased "Did anyone see Madeleine on that holiday who knew her before then?"

That excludes the McCanns and their friends of course; the answer has to be no.

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by sallypelt on 24.07.13 12:40

This is taken from J Wilkins first statement he gave to the PJ on 4 May 2007:


 I left about 8:15 to 8:30 pm. I was pushing the pram around the complex and went to the toilet near the bar. I find this a bit strange. What time was this? What did he do with the baby when he was using the toilet?

"I could not see inside the restaurant. As I got the baby to sleep, I was on my way back to the apartment. I came out at the top road.  I met him near the stairs of a ground floor. There was a gate leading up to some stairs. I was pretty certain that he had left the apartment. We spoke for a few minutes. He said you're on walking duty. I said I was staying in and pros and cons and what to do with the children".

He said that as he was staying two weeks XXXXX he was staying one night' (unreadable)
I don't remember anyone else walking around with a child. The conversation lasted for about three (3) to five (5) minutes".


Now let's look what he said in 8.4.2008 statement:

Q. Relative to the time I met Gerry McCann on the Thursday night of May 3, 2007;
As stated in my original deposition, I believe that I left the apartment around 20h30. I calculate that I met Gerry on the road between 20h45 and 21h15. 
In this statement, he says he left at around 20:30hrs and met Jerry McCann between 20:45 - 21:15 hrs. My question is, if JW left his apartment at 20:30hrs and met GM between 20:45 - 21-15hrs, I find this timeline questionable. Let's work on the 20:30hrs leaving the apartment and 20:45 when he says he could have met GM. That leaves 15 minutes for JW to leave the apartment, walk to the Tapas club, GO TO THE TOILET. (he'd just left his apartment. Why didn't he go before he left?) and then bump into GM at 20:45

Further down on his 8.4.2008 statement Jeremy Wilkins states:

 I saw a man that was coming from the road and was headed to the reception. I believe that he was with a woman but I cannot be precise of any detail about her. It was a tall Caucasian man, with blonde hair in 'rasta style' tied with a band instead of free flowing. When I arrived, I headed to the WC near the pool area. He also was in the WC but appeared to be a taking a long time 

 So, by JWs own admission, he was in the WC a long time.

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by tasprin on 24.07.13 13:04

@tigger wrote:bravo  Thank you so much for that post!

I can't imagine that in such a small community she hadn't either heard about or met Murat. He was into estate agency too and so was O'Donnell (see links in my other posts)
In fact she'd just started with a local estate agency. PdL had about 1000 inhabitants at the time, the rest of the population would be expats and holiday makers.

JW imo had nothing to do with the whole affair, but the media world is a tough one and no doubt they made the most of the McCann affair.
But JW  refused to change his statement or pick a  time and/or meeting place more suited to GM. He also complained about a form of harassment - being called at home and at work by TM. He certainly wouldn't have done that if he'd been involved in any way imo.

If he refused to take part in a reconstruction (haven't seen that anywhere) it might be because by that time O'Donnell had written her piece and perhaps some goodies were being dangled in front of their noses. Such as documentaries and ghost writing? All supposition of course.

Thanks Tigger. No, I can’t imagine that O’Donnell hadn’t met or heard of Murat either, which is curious considering her quite obvious attempt at character assassination. Seven months after Murat was made a suspect - by which time O’Donnell must have read everything there was to read on him - and when most people no longer believed he was involved - O’Donnell waded in with her venomous description clearly intending to reinforce the creepy paedo image fabricated by TM and the media. At the same time she put absolute faith in the parents innocence, though, from their own words and actions, there was far more reason to doubt them than there was Murat.

I don’t believe Wilkins was involved in any way but given he complained about the pressure exerted on him by Team McCann, the article is oddly sycophantic, one-sided and dishonest and that’s why I wondered if pressure had been applied in the writing of it, and yes, perhaps you’re right, goodies may have been dangled to entice. I’ve often wondered, for instance, why the double glazing man, Brian Kennedy, went to see Murat - that’s another curious one. I don’t believe Murat was involved either but he probably knew more than most about the strange goings-on that week - things they would not want to be made public - maybe the purpose of Kennedy’s visit was also enticement or pressure.

I’m sure I read somewhere that Wilkins refused to attend the reconstruction but I may be wrong - I’ll see if I can find anything on it.


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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by Miraflores on 24.07.13 13:15


I’m sure I read somewhere that Wilkins refused to attend the reconstruction but I may be wrong - I’ll see if I can find anything on it.

I am sure that I read that too, but that it was after the Tapas7/McCanns had all refused to return to do the reconstruction. In which case, it would appear a bit pointless.

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by tasprin on 24.07.13 13:30

I think you're right Miraflores, I found this on the 'FromMyBigDesk' site. It only needed a few of them to refuse for the reconstruction to be cancelled - I suppose they knew that all along.

Sunday, 10 August 2008

McCann case: the failed reconstruction

In April 2008, Paulo Rebelo gave a detailed response to the McCanns' friends about their arguments and doubts on the subject of the reconstruction of the events of May3rd. He stated that one of the conditions put forward by the group, that of first of all withdrawing Kate and Gerry's arguidos status - was impossible to accomplish, because only the Prosecutor held the legal power to do it, not the PJ.

On the subject of the reconstruction, the main problem for the McCanns' group of friends was clear: if the PJ believed their statements, then the reconstruction wasn't necessary, or the PJ were trying to obtain something strange with this activity.

They wanted to know what the PJ's true intentions were. After several exchanges of emails, going first through Stuart Prior, the Tapas 7 group were not convinced of the usefulness of such a reconstruction.

In the replies that followed, Kate and Gerry's friends placed as a condition, not only the lifting of the McCann couple's arguido status, but also the announcement of a press release by the PJ dispelling the lies published by the Portuguese media, emphasising that there was no suspicion about the seven friends.

As it was impossible to accept or accomplish these conditions, Paulo Rebelo, in an email addressed to Stuart Prior on April 29th, requested that a final decision was taken. Jane and Russel O'Brien were the first to respond, saying yes, but waiting for further advice from their lawyers. Rachel and Matthew sent a similar response, but stressing that they couldn't be in Portugal between May 15th and May 17th.

Diana, Fiona and David Payne also accepted, while waiting for advice from their lawyers. After the PJ's detailed explanations, Jeremy Wilkins was willing to participate, on conditon that the other witnesses were also in Portugal.

The criminal court took the decision to set a new date: 29th and 30th of May 2008. Then Gerald McCann requested a change to this new date, because his lawyer had another meeting planned before the Lisbon court, for May 29th. His request was refused because it was impossible to make a further revision of the date, due to the numbers of people involved. On May 10th, Rachel and Matthew Oldfield sent an email to Stuart Prior, communicating their final decision to him: they would not be in Portugal to participate in the reconstruction. Russel O'Brien, also on May 10th, told the Superintendent that as he had learned that Jeremy Wilkins, the Oldfields and the Payne family had now decided not to go to Portugal, there was now no need for their presence, because the Prosecutor had said that the reconstruction could not take place unless all the witnesses were present.

On May 23rd, all seven of the McCanns' friends sent a formal reply to the Prosecutor's request for a reconstruction, saying that they would not be attending, after advice from their lawyers. The reconstruction was therefroe cancelled by the Judge for the Court of Criminal Investigation, on May 26th 2008.

Paulo Reis and Duarte Levy
http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/mccann-case-failed-reconstruction.html

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by Guest on 24.07.13 15:03

@Miraflores wrote:

I’m sure I read somewhere that Wilkins refused to attend the reconstruction but I may be wrong - I’ll see if I can find anything on it.

I am sure that I read that too, but that it was after the Tapas7/McCanns had all refused to return to do the reconstruction. In which case, it would appear a bit pointless.

 The email to Jez Wilkins re reconstruction, and his reply (his reluctance to agree to it) is here (about half way down the page)....

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id279.html

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by tigger on 24.07.13 17:16

Here is a link:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2511940/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-consider-Crimewatch-reconstruction.html

Madeleine McCann's parents consider Crimewatch reconstruction
Kate and Gerry McCann are in talks with Crimewatch about staging a reconstruction of the night Madeleine disappeared after being given access to the police files.
By Caroline Gammell in Portimao 8:44PM BST 06 Aug 2008

Portuguese police wanted to hold a re-run of events earlier this year, but the little girl's parents were reluctant to take part while they were still suspects in the case.
Now the official investigation has been shelved and their arguido status lifted, the McCanns are looking into the possibility of setting up their own reconstruction, filmed by the BBC.
The couple's spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "We have had low level contact with Crimewatch ever since they wanted to do something with us last year. We are talking to them again.
"Kate and Gerry may well take part - it is certainly something that they would consider. Given that we have a lot of new information, it may be something that we revisit, but nothing is confirmed."
The McCanns and the seven friends dining with them on the night three-year-old Madeleine vanished from the family's apartment would all need to fly to the Algarve to take part.

According to the public prosecutors in the case - Jose de Magalhaes and Joao Melchior Gomes – the failure to hold a re-enactment had worked against the parents.

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by Lance De Boils on 24.07.13 17:21

[color:9003=000000]Email to Stuart Prior from Jeremy Wilkins

16th April 2008

Table of Contents: Vol XVI Page 4229

From : Jes Wilkins ()
Sent : 16th April 2008
To : Prior Stuart
Subject : Re : Re-enactment questions

Thanks Stuart,

As discussed with your colleagues last week I still feel reluctant to agree to this for a number of reasons including family and work commitments, the likelyhood of media intrusion and a lack of information about anything tangible or constructive that is likely to be achieved by doing this.

I am happy to discuss furthe if necessary.

Jes


There is also this, from his rog interview:

I spoke with the police for a long time regarding this topic. I had some reservation about the press' intrusion onto my personal life and the hurt that resulted. I actually think that I would prefer not to take part. I have helped the investigation and am particularly interested in the investigative team gave me a solid base with would justify the reconstitution.


When read in conjunction with this, from O'Donnell [Guardian article] it sounds even more absurd that he didn't want to take part:


I once worked as a producer in the BBC crime unit. I directed many reconstructions and spent my second pregnancy producing new investigations for Crimewatch.

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by Guest on 24.07.13 17:43

I find the reluctance of these people to go back and participate in an exercise that may help locate a missing child one of the most shocking and saddening aspects of this case.  How anyone can use work commitments as an excuse, when there is a child missing is beyond me.  I am to this day gobsmacked when I read those letters re the reconstruction. (There is a link in my last post)  Surely to God, if the police are asking you to participate, then it must be important, and I for one would certainly not refuse to help in a police investigation.  Them saying they fail to see how it could help is not the issue, it is for the police to decide what helps, not them.   Grrrr. tearhairout angry


ETA link....
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id279.html

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by PeterMac on 24.07.13 18:55

I take the opposite view.
They knew, (they knew,) that a reconstruction which showed even the hint of a possibility of a tiny window of opportunity for an abduction was absolutely impossible to achieve.
For a reconstruction there would have to be someone taking the part of the abductor, or abductors.
And that part requires a form of script, which has to fit in with what everyone else has said.
And it is simply not possible.
Only three people are relevant anyway, GM, JW, and JT. The rest do not matter. They played no part in the official version.

The danger they all faced was being allowed to thrash around playing at the reconstruction until it became obvious to them, all, that no one believed them, and they couldn't make it work.
Or worse, that one of them broke ranks whilst they were on Portuguese soil.

It comes as no surprise that their lawyers forbade it. They would have not only incriminated themselves but destroyed any possible defence at the same time.

How many lawyers were at the Rothley secret meeting before the Rogatories. Do we know ?

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by Guest on 24.07.13 19:03

@PeterMac wrote: [...]
How many lawyers were at the Rothley secret meeting before the Rogatories. Do we know ?
***
I cannot recall ever having heard about that. But, I think you're right: there may have been some.

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell

Post by Monty Heck on 24.07.13 23:08

tasprin Today at 11:27 am


Extracts from My Months with Madeleine

He [GM] told us they were leaving theirs sleeping in the apartments. While they chatted on, I ruminated on the pros and cons of this. I admired them, in a way, for not being paranoid parents, but I decided that our apartment was too far off even to contemplate it. Our baby was too young and I would worry about them waking up.

Although she was worried about the dangers of the balcony in her own apartment, O’Donnell was glad she didn’t get apartment 5A as she regarded it as more dangerous because it was exposed to the road and people could see in…yet she still admired the McCanns for not being paranoid about leaving three very young children in such a precarious situation night after night, and she didn’t appear to see anything remotely odd about the McCanns broadcasting their alarming childcare arrangements to complete strangers. And this woman worked on Crimewatch?

So JW/BOD were apparently capable of assessing the scenario of leaving children asleep unattended in various apartments as too risky to contemplate, unlike the T9 who, on the contrary felt it was "all so very safe" enough to carry it out night after night.  Instead of saying, "wow, don't you think that could be a bit risky "While they chatted on" s/he merely ruminated the pros and cons, and having weighed these up (and here BOD is clear that for her the cons decidedly outweighed the pros) concluded that there was something admirable in the McCs not being paranoid parents.  Also, without questioning before 3/5/2007 or indeed since, why the T9 would confide their high risk child care plans on such slight acquaintance, oblivious to adding to the dangers inherent in leaving children alone.  In an exposed apartment, which any fool who took a moment to weigh up the risks would decide against.   There seems to be a freakishly high number of people without even average judgement capabilities connected to this story.  Hardly surprising the matter is unresolved over 6 years later if this is the calibre of person on whom the fate of this poor child depended, IMO.

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by suzyjohnson on 26.07.13 10:11

Yes, Monty Heck, good post.

PeterMac, I don't agree that the only three people relevant to the reconstruction were GM, JT and JW, although I can see the sense in which you meant it. Certainly, GM and JT have narrowed down the time and of course this needs to be fully investigated and explained

For the initial  purpose of a reconstruction though, I think the police have to allow for the possibility that JT was mistaken in that she saw the abductor, and investigate the possibility that something else occurred between 9.15 and 10pm. The police also need to discover precisely what happened throughout the entire day of the 3rd. 

Therefore all the Tapas group are relevant and all should have attended.

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Re: Tanner, O'Brien, Wilkins, O'Donnell.

Post by tasprin on 26.07.13 10:41

@PeterMac wrote:I take the opposite view.
They knew, (they knew,) that a reconstruction which showed even the hint of a possibility of a tiny window of opportunity for an abduction was absolutely impossible to achieve.
For a reconstruction there would have to be someone taking the part of the abductor, or abductors.
And that part requires a form of script, which has to fit in with what everyone else has said.
And it is simply not possible.
Only three people are relevant anyway, GM, JW, and JT. The rest do not matter. They played no part in the official version.

The danger they all faced was being allowed to thrash around playing at the reconstruction until it became obvious to them, all, that no one believed them, and they couldn't make it work.
Or worse, that one of them broke ranks whilst they were on Portuguese soil.

It comes as no surprise that their lawyers forbade it.  They would have not only incriminated themselves but destroyed any possible defence at the same time.

How many lawyers were at the Rothley secret meeting before the Rogatories. Do we know ?

I agree Peter, they all KNEW a reconstruction would show up the impossibility of an abduction. Gerry McCann would probably have had a furious argument with Jes Wilkins and Jane Tanner (reminiscent of his reaction outside the Lisbon court in 2010). He'd have disputed their statements and insisted he was on the other side, not outside the gate as they both maintained. A reconstruction would've put an end to the ludicrous abduction story and they knew it.

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