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SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by ShuBob on 04.07.13 15:13

sally66 wrote:Not really sure what to think

I can see that they wouldn't alert prime suspects and would say McCanns and Tapas crew aren't suspects if it was genuine investigation but its the stating M could be alive that makes me doubt if it is.  They dogs are usually believed in the UK.

IFit is a whitewash then it is of such a magnitude that IMO it can only be for the darkest of reasons connected to high profile people and all the more reason to fight on.

They said there is "no definitive proof" she's not alive. So technically, she could still be alive.

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by jeanmonroe on 04.07.13 15:13

BAHAMAS, TAHITI, MALDIVES, DISNEYLAND, HAWAII, MONACO and anywhere nice in the world..

Such a hard life Andy and the super cops are going to have to endure investigating 26 people of interest in these places!

And they gleaned all this new information with the help from the McS brilliant private defective teams, including convicted fraudster Halligen, on trial for fraud Metoado 3 and pretendy orange pickers Grabbit&Leggit!

So SY are now taking the word of convicted fraudsters as 'gospel'?

As Jay from the Inbetweeners would say

BRILLIANT!

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by sallypelt on 04.07.13 15:14

sally66 wrote:Not really sure what to think

I can see that they wouldn't alert prime suspects and would say McCanns and Tapas crew aren't suspects if it was genuine investigation but its the stating M could be alive that makes me doubt if it is.  They dogs are usually believed in the UK.

IFit is a whitewash then it is of such a magnitude that IMO it can only be for the darkest of reasons connected to high profile people and all the more reason to fight on.

I doesn't bother me. They are only saying she MAY be alive. That is like saying, she MAY be dead

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by jozi on 04.07.13 15:14

@ShuBob wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:I think too many are jumping to conclusions and calling it a "whitewash". I don't think for one moment it is. This is HUGE and is going to take a long time yet, before we know what is going on, but I STILL stand by "follow the money", and look at ALL who are involved.

I found this part of the statement, interesting:

Detectives are at an early stage of the new investigation, known as Operation Grange, and arrests are not expected in the immediate future.

I was just going to post similar.

Does it not strike some people as perculiar that a point is being made that the McCanns are not considered amongst the 38 "persons of interest"? Why make a song and dance about that given that the case hasn't been solved?

The case will have to be closed as a whitewash for me to actually conclude it is so. Until then, I remain optimistic.
e
ShuBob...I agree with you, until they charge anyone we have to wait and see ? Only then can we say its a whitewash !!! This case is huge and not only involves the Mcs and Tapas, what about the fund and all the people who helped them in Portugal ???

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by Cristobell on 04.07.13 15:15

Have just spent 10 mins with head in oven! lol.  Lets not lose heart.  38 people of interest, 12 British Nationals.  All this hoo ha, must result in a trial.  It would be a bit of a damp squib it none of this leads to any arrests.  This case is such a global phenomenon that it must have an ending.  Would a cover up or whitewash stand up to an intense court case?

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by guest. on 04.07.13 15:18

@ShuBob wrote:
sally66 wrote:Not really sure what to think

I can see that they wouldn't alert prime suspects and would say McCanns and Tapas crew aren't suspects if it was genuine investigation but its the stating M could be alive that makes me doubt if it is.  They dogs are usually believed in the UK.

IFit is a whitewash then it is of such a magnitude that IMO it can only be for the darkest of reasons connected to high profile people and all the more reason to fight on.

They  said there is "no definitive proof" she's not alive. So technically, she could still be alive.

True when I look at the wording properly


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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by lj on 04.07.13 15:19

sally66 wrote:Not really sure what to think

I can see that they wouldn't alert prime suspects and would say McCanns and Tapas crew aren't suspects if it was genuine investigation but its the stating M could be alive that makes me doubt if it is.  They dogs are usually believed in the UK.

IFit is a whitewash then it is of such a magnitude that IMO it can only be for the darkest of reasons connected to high profile people and all the more reason to fight on.

The darkest of reasons is very simple: "important" people don't wanna look stupid, that's worse than being caught with your pants down (whether or not with a minor).

It's over. Poor Brits, now you have to listen to this nincompoops for years to come.

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by DIBarlow on 04.07.13 15:20

So, what's the consensus of opinion as to the McCann take on this latest development?

On the assumption that they were indeed involved in some way, that the dogs were right, the forensic DNA evidence in the apartment was from a deceased Maddie.

Do you think they're feeling more relieved after today's announcement?

Or will the tenseness be notched up a little more?

I don't think they'll be too comfortable when all is said and done.

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by guest. on 04.07.13 15:20

@sallypelt wrote:
sally66 wrote:Not really sure what to think

I can see that they wouldn't alert prime suspects and would say McCanns and Tapas crew aren't suspects if it was genuine investigation but its the stating M could be alive that makes me doubt if it is.  They dogs are usually believed in the UK.

IFit is a whitewash then it is of such a magnitude that IMO it can only be for the darkest of reasons connected to high profile people and all the more reason to fight on.

I doesn't bother me. They are only saying she MAY be alive. That is like saying, she MAY be dead


Yes you're right but I think either way honest investigation or whitewash I think we are all here for a long time yet

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by bristow on 04.07.13 15:22

@DIBarlow wrote:So, what's the consensus of opinion as to the McCann take on this latest development?

On the assumption that they were indeed involved in some way, that the dogs were right, the forensic DNA evidence in the apartment was from a deceased Maddie.

Do you think they're feeling more relieved after today's announcement?

Or will the tenseness be notched up a little more?

I don't think they'll be too comfortable when all is said and done.

 Personally I think they are ecstatic, as it is a complete and utter whitewash.

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by cockerspaniel on 04.07.13 15:22

@Cristobell wrote:Have just spent 10 mins with head in oven! lol.  Lets not lose heart.  38 people of interest, 12 British Nationals.  All this hoo ha, must result in a trial.  It would be a bit of a damp squib it none of this leads to any arrests.  This case is such a global phenomenon that it must have an ending.  Would a cover up or whitewash stand up to an intense court case?

 I fear the ending may be a lot like the one in the tv series LOST. You were left with more questions than answers, and 4 years later its true meaning is only just starting to sink in for most people, and most of them are not satisfied!! Theres still alot of debate on the net about what it all meant even now.

Ps i hope that was an electric and not gas oven cristobell

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12 UK nationals?

Post by marconi on 04.07.13 15:23

12 UK nationals.  100 years ago, Moita Flores talked already about 12 people. That must be the conclusion of the PJ. 
Is this going to still take months?  After the resurection of my greatgrandmother?


a man to his boss:

-Sir, may I have a day off today?  My grandmother is dying.

-She is improving! Last month you got a day off for her funeral!

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by Guest on 04.07.13 15:24

Note this from the Daily Mail, the Portuguese obviously don't think SY have any new evidence........

The Portuguese authorities have refused to reopen their inquiry. Officials said they can only reopen the case if there is new evidence, and the new leads do not provide sufficient grounds.

But Met detectives strongly believe their leads could, if properly investigated, result in new evidence and perhaps the case being solved.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2355651/Scotland-Yard-launches-chance-investigation-disappearance-Madeleine-McCann-detectives-identify-38-suspects.html#ixzz2Y5R6Isy5


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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by bristow on 04.07.13 15:28

It's all such a joke, why on earth can't some journalist with balls ask about the dog evidence, what is going on??!!

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by bristow on 04.07.13 15:30

Suspects include Urs Hans von Aesch who abducted and killed five-year-old Ylenia Lenhard less than three months after Madeleine was taken 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2355651/Scotland-Yard-targets-12-British-suspects-new-investigation-disappearance-Madeleine-McCann-detectives-says-evidence-suggest-dead.html#ixzz2Y5Sx7zsT 

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by Guest on 04.07.13 15:34

July 2013 Last updated at 14:20



Madeleine McCann: New leads spark Met formal inquiry



Madeleine McCann Madeleine was almost four years old when she disappeared from her parents' holiday apartment


Scotland Yard says it has "new evidence and new theories" in the Madeleine McCann case as it opens a formal investigation into her disappearance.

The Met Police said it still believed there was a chance Madeleine was alive and was investigating 38 "persons of interest" after reviewing the evidence.

Madeleine's parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, said the shift from review to investigation was "a big step forward".

Madeleine was almost four when she disappeared in Portugal in 2007.

Portuguese authorities dropped their investigation in 2008.
New witnesses

Scotland Yard's review started in May 2011, after Prime Minister David Cameron responded to a plea from the McCanns, of Rothley, Leicestershire.

Det Ch Insp Andy Redwood, who is heading Operation Grange, said: "The review has given us new thinking, new theories, new evidence and new witnesses."
Continue reading the main story
Analysis
image of Danny Shaw Danny Shaw Home affairs correspondent, BBC News

A team of Scotland Yard's best detectives, assisted by police overseas, in an inquiry paid for by the Home Office, offers the best opportunity to find out what happened to Madeleine McCann. It may also be the last chance to do so.

Although the Yard can not put right mistakes made during the initial inquiry, when the Portuguese were accused of failing to seal off the area where Madeleine had been staying and gather all available forensic evidence, the new team has had access to all the files.

That has enabled detectives with no prior involvement to look at the case objectively and form fresh views about what may have happened to Madeleine. There is a real determination among officers to solve the mystery - and a quiet optimism that it may be possible.

His 37-strong police team is two-thirds of the way through examining 30,500 documents from files held by the Portuguese, private investigators and British police. Some fresh interviews have also taken place.

"We continue to believe that there is a possibility that Madeleine is alive," Det Ch Insp Redwood said.

"It is a positive step in our hunt for Madeleine that our understanding of the evidence has enabled us to shift from review to investigation."

Scotland Yard's decision to formally open its own investigation - which, like the review, will be funded by the Home Office - follows extensive discussions with UK prosecutors and the Portuguese.

BBC home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw said: "It's highly unusual - although not unprecedented - for a British police force to launch its own inquiry into an incident abroad."

In a statement, the McCanns said: "Kate and Gerry warmly welcome the shift in the Met's emphasis from review to investigation.

Cannot play media. You do not have the correct version of the flash player. Download the correct version

Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood: "There is no clear, definitive proof that Madeleine McCann is dead"

"It is clearly a big step forward in establishing what happened and, hopefully, towards bringing whoever is responsible for Madeleine's abduction to justice."
'Potential involvement'

The Met said its review of tens of thousands of documents had "generated in excess of 3,800 actions", which in turn had "generated new findings and new witness evidence".

The 38 "persons of interest," who include 12 British nationals, are from five European countries - Portugal, the UK and three unnamed others.

Detectives say they need to find out more information and collect evidence on them and are not anticipating any immediate arrests.

The 12 UK nationals, who are not all currently in the UK, are believed to have been in Portugal at the time of Madeleine's disappearance.

The Met said it was "at an advanced stage of dialogue" with the other countries involved, and enquiries would be continuing with their assistance in the months ahead "to establish more information about the individuals concerned and any potential involvement".

A foreign national resident abroad could not be prosecuted in the UK for any possible crime that may be linked to Madeleine's disappearance.

Detectives say Madeleine's parents, the friends the McCanns were with in Portugal and people known to the family before they went away are not suspects or people they need to investigate.

The investigation is currently closed in Portugal and as part of the country's criminal justice system it cannot be reopened unless judges are convinced there are solid grounds to do so.
Madeleine McCann when she disappeared and how she might have looked aged nine The Metropolitan Police issued a computer-generated image (r) of how Madeleine might have looked aged nine

British police have formally asked the Crown Prosecution Service to submit an International Letter of Request to Portuguese authorities for assistance in obtaining evidence relating to their inquiries.

The Met has asked for a small number of its officers to be present in Portugal for the inquiries there.

"Our working relationship with the Portuguese police is positive and now that we have moved to investigation we are requesting further specific assistance through normal judicial routes," Det Ch Insp Redwood said.

As part of the review, a computer-generated image of how Madeleine might look at the age of nine was created with the help of her family. They marked her 10th birthday on 12 May.

By May 2012 - one year into the review - the Home Office's costs had reached £1.9m. The Met Police said a more up-to-date figure for the cost of the review would be released in due course.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23179230

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by sallypelt on 04.07.13 15:38

Let’s look at what the MET has said, and just let the opinions of the media go over our heads. So, this is a breakdown of what the MET is alleged to have said, from the official statement

The "review has sought to prioritise the material, ensuring we are doing everything possible to understand what happened to Madeleine. In the absence of any clear evidence to the contrary we maintain our belief that Madeleine may still be alive".

So, I read into this, that the MET’s starting point is from the perspective of a living person, because as it stands, there is NO body.

“We are satisfied that our review has now progressed to a position where we have identified 38 persons of interest”

Again, that is saying to me that the 38 persons of interest AREN’T the McCann’s or the friends who were in Portugal with them. Nowhere have I read that the MET has said that the McCann’s AREN’T involved. This claim seems to be coming from the media

And as for this statement "We remain in close contact with Kate and Gerry McCann and they are updated on our current position”, we have to remember that they are parents of a missing child have not been accused BY SY of any involvement in their daughter’s disappearance.

So, let’s keep it logical, and only concentrate what is coming out OFFICIALLY, and I completely understand why this isn’t going to be much at this stage. However, all I want is the truth, and if that means that the McCann’s ARE innocent, then so be it. Truth, not revenge, is what I have wanted for the last 6 years,

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by bristow on 04.07.13 15:39

Madeleine McCann: How the British led investigation will operate overseas


Scotland Yard’s decision to launch a full-scale investigation into Madeleine McCann’s disappearance from Portugal throws up a number of potential legal hurdles for detectives to overcome.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/10159992/Madeleine-McCann-How-the-British-led-investigation-will-operate-overseas.html

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by Me on 04.07.13 15:41

So from this announcement today there are three possibilities as i see it:

1) Someone from these 38 "persons of interest" are charged with the abduction of Madeleine McCann
2) Someone from outside these 38 persons of interest are charged with the abduction of Madeleine Mccann
3) No one from these 38 persons or anyone else outside the Tapas 9 group are charged with the abduction of Madeleine McCann.

Now if the investigation results in either option 1 or option 2 then the police will have to bring evidence to a court to gain a conviction. We would all then be privy to that evidence and we can see exactly where it is dervied from.

If the police have found someone and have sufficient evidence to convict then given we are all only interested in justice for Madeleine then we should all celebrate that. If the evidence found is outside the released files and as a result of the Yard's investigation then so be it, we have been drawing our conlcusions from those files. If the evidence to convict someone is outside the files then we cannot legislate for that in the conclusions we have drawn.

We can then see the Yard's evidence and discuss its merits against the work the PJ did in their own incomplete investigation.

Ultimately though it will mean justice has been served for Maddie. We should all be happy with that result.

However if option 3 is the final outcome then we are then in a situation where all leads have been exhausted and then all roads lead back to the T9 crew, with all tales of abductors ruled out once and for all.


____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by guest. on 04.07.13 15:41

@lj wrote:
sally66 wrote:Not really sure what to think

I can see that they wouldn't alert prime suspects and would say McCanns and Tapas crew aren't suspects if it was genuine investigation but its the stating M could be alive that makes me doubt if it is.  They dogs are usually believed in the UK.

IFit is a whitewash then it is of such a magnitude that IMO it can only be for the darkest of reasons connected to high profile people and all the more reason to fight on.

The darkest of reasons is very simple: "important" people don't wanna look stupid, that's worse than being caught with your pants down (whether or not with a minor).

It's over. Poor Brits, now you have to listen to this nincompoops for years to come.

I think IF it is a whitewash it is for darker reasons than people looking stupid, nearly the whole nation was taken in by the McCanns the general public would probably not even remember that they had unprecedented help

Being taken in by Andy Coulson and Rebekah Brooks is a lot more stupid and that's come to light

Taking us to war for nothing is outrageous and that's come to light

So that leaves me thinking the unthinkable if it is a whitewash

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by sallypelt on 04.07.13 15:44

Some of the BS coming from the Daily Mail:

Investigators refused to discuss details of forensic evidence, but said they have no information to suggest the little girl has been murdered. Why not say "dead"? No one has said that she was MURDERED.


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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by jeanmonroe on 04.07.13 15:45

Well if there are ONLY 12 in the UK i expect they are all in different police stations right NOW being questioned!
Obviously the SY team KNOW who they are, because they were named in the files,so SY have TOLD us, and they would have all got the six o'clock knock this morning.
The Met assembled over a 1000 strong 'force' recently to carry out simultaneous 'raids' on druggies/bad boys so just 12 'people of interest' in the UK wouldn't be to hard to 'arrest' would they?
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/met-police-smash-gang-of-burglars-and-drug-dealers-in-biggestever-dawn-raid-8617041.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22537548

IF these TWELVE (12) 'people' are NOT in custody right NOW, then WHY NOT?

Or are SY going to give them lots more time to carry on their 'sorrid affairs' and possibly endanger children, TODAY, until they get around to questioning them?

Sniff, sniff,............... is it goat?
Sniff, sniff.............is it horse?
Oh i know,........... it's BULLSHIT!

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by sallypelt on 04.07.13 15:45

@Me wrote:So from this announcement today there are three possibilities as i see it:

1) Someone from these 38 "persons of interest" are charged with the abduction of Madeleine McCann
2) Someone from outside these 38 persons of interest are charged with the abduction of Madeleine Mccann
3) No one from these 38 persons or anyone else outside the Tapas 9 group are charged with the abduction of Madeleine McCann.

Now if the investigation results in either option 1 or option 2 then the police will have to bring evidence to a court to gain a conviction. We would all then be privy to that evidence and we can see exactly where it is dervied from.

If the police have found someone and have sufficient evidence to convict then given we are all only interested in justice for Madeleine then we should all celebrate that. If the evidence found is outside the released files and as a result of the Yard's investigation then so be it, we have been drawing our conlcusions from those files. If the evidence to convict someone is outside the files then we cannot legislate for that in the conclusions we have drawn.

We can then see the Yard's evidence and discuss its merits against the work the PJ did in their own incomplete investigation.

Ultimately though it will mean justice has been served for Maddie. We should all be happy with that result.

However if option 3 is the final outcome then we are then in a situation where all leads have been exhausted and then all roads lead back to the T9 crew, with all tales of abductors ruled out once and for all.


Nowhere have I read the MET mentioning the word "abduction". That's coming from Clarence and the media.

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by AndyB on 04.07.13 15:46

@SallyPelt
"Redwood said none of the individuals was connected to Madeleine's family or friends who were with her parents on holiday at the time."
It came from the Met not the media

http://m.guardian.co.uk/uk-news/2013/jul/04/madeleine-mccann-police-target-38-suspects

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Re: SY ANNOUNCEMENT 2pm 4/7/13

Post by Me on 04.07.13 15:49

@sallypelt wrote:
@Me wrote:So from this announcement today there are three possibilities as i see it:

1) Someone from these 38 "persons of interest" are charged with the abduction of Madeleine McCann
2) Someone from outside these 38 persons of interest are charged with the abduction of Madeleine Mccann
3) No one from these 38 persons or anyone else outside the Tapas 9 group are charged with the abduction of Madeleine McCann.

Now if the investigation results in either option 1 or option 2 then the police will have to bring evidence to a court to gain a conviction. We would all then be privy to that evidence and we can see exactly where it is dervied from.

If the police have found someone and have sufficient evidence to convict then given we are all only interested in justice for Madeleine then we should all celebrate that. If the evidence found is outside the released files and as a result of the Yard's investigation then so be it, we have been drawing our conlcusions from those files. If the evidence to convict someone is outside the files then we cannot legislate for that in the conclusions we have drawn.

We can then see the Yard's evidence and discuss its merits against the work the PJ did in their own incomplete investigation.

Ultimately though it will mean justice has been served for Maddie. We should all be happy with that result.

However if option 3 is the final outcome then we are then in a situation where all leads have been exhausted and then all roads lead back to the T9 crew, with all tales of abductors ruled out once and for all.


Nowhere have I read the MET mentioning the word "abduction". That's coming from Clarence and the media.

No you are right but if the Yard are looking at people other than the T9 then there must have been an abduction.

What i am saying is that if these 38 aren't the Tapas mob but they find evidence to convict someone then we should be pleased that justice has been done.


____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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