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Kate is 'thrown'

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Kate is 'thrown'

Post by worriedmum on 20.06.13 19:30

[color:aa8b=000000]''Fredrik Skavlan: You... you said you've written the book for the twins, how much do they know?

Kate McCann: Probably as much as we do to be honest now, errm...

Gerry McCann: Virtually, yeah!

Kate McCann: We did take advice from a child psychologist and he said to be as honest and as open with them but let them take the lead so if they ask you a question you respond as... as fully as you can and that's exactly what we've done. So we've got to the point now where they understand that a man has taken Madeleine. They... they view it like burgalry [sic]; she's been stolen and you shouldn't take something that doesn't belong to you but they understand, you know, there's lots of people helping us. They understand why we are in Sweden today, the purpose of that is to ask for more help really, errm...

Fredrik Skavlan: Can... can they really remember?

Kate McCann: Well obviously they were very young, but they have re-counted things that happened prior to May 2007, which has kind of thrown me a little bit.''

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id411.html

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Re: Kate is 'thrown'

Post by tigger on 20.06.13 19:36

Ah yes, the miracle of memory improving over time resulting in total recall  of all connected with the McCanns, including the Tapas 7, the nannies...

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Re: Kate is 'thrown'

Post by jd on 20.06.13 19:39

The 'to be honest', 'you know', 'errm','obviously' all in full swing

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Re: Kate is 'thrown'

Post by worriedmum on 20.06.13 19:41

but why does she say it has 'thrown ' her?

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Re: Kate is 'thrown'

Post by PeterMac on 20.06.13 19:44

@worriedmum wrote:but why does she say it has 'thrown ' her?
Because they said "we remember when you took Madeleine out and . . . ." ? ? ?
Possibly

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Re: Kate is 'thrown'

Post by Guest on 20.06.13 19:57

Oh how interesting it could have been if the twins had been interviewed (obviously by someone trained to do so) the day after Madeleine was reported missing.

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Re: Kate is 'thrown'

Post by plebgate on 20.06.13 21:11

Any interview with Mr. & Mrs. I take with a pinch of salt.

So many contradictions about things I really do question what they say in every interview I see or read.

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Re: Kate is 'thrown'

Post by Guest on 21.06.13 19:52

@PeterMac wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:but why does she say it has 'thrown ' her?
Because they said "we remember when you took Madeleine out and  . . . ." ? ? ?
Possibly
***
They may have remembered all kinds of things.
It's been on here before, how much one/ we remember from early childhood.
Particularly [IMO] Sean may have remembered the/a crying episode ...

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Re: Kate is 'thrown'

Post by PeterMac on 21.06.13 21:09

They were heavily sedated.
The McCanns say so, so this is not libellous , Kevin.
So heavily sedated that they were at point 6 on the Ramsay scale, slept though all the commotion and then through the night, waking the next morning with no apparent side effects.
Why ?
And how ?
despite  a window and shutters having been open for an hour on a cold night, 
despite  the door slamming shut, 
despite  curtains blowing into the room, 
despite  their mother frantically opening and closing wardrobes and cupboards 
despite  their mother rushing out screaming for help, 
despite  the entire Tapas 7 group searching throughout the apartment, 
despite  Kate and the Tapas group shouting Madeleine’s name outside, 
despite  Gerry McCann’s closing and opening the shutters multiple times
despite  Mrs Webster’s similarly attempting to open the shutters but failing, 
despite  the Police investigating the scene, 
despite  Gerry’s “roaring like a lion” and then prostrating himself on the floor,
despite  both parents repeating this action and wailing 
despite  Kate’s checking the twins for vital signs, 
despite  the twins being lifted from their cots by people not their parents, and 
despite  their being carried out into the cold night air, and to another apartment.

Despite all of this    . . .   the twins did not wake

Kate McCann stated in 2011 that she had suspected sedation from the very first. Given the above perhaps this is understandable.  
In her book, “madeleine’, which she described as “A Version of the Truth”, she says this explicitly. 

3 May 2007  
p.  75  “Had Madeleine been given some kind of sedative to keep her quiet ?  Had the twins, too ?”  

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Re: Kate is 'thrown'

Post by jd on 21.06.13 21:47

I've always been curious why the mccanns were asking Leicestershire police just 2 days later, if any drugs had been used but then waited 3 months to ask for the twins to be checked and after having their haircut

On May 5th 2007, Jim McGarvey of the Leicestershire police force says (in his RI of April 2008) that "Gerry and Kate also questioned whether there was any suggestion that pointed to the used of drugs to facilitate Madeleine's abduction"
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JIM_McGARVEY.htm

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Re: Kate is 'thrown'

Post by PeterMac on 21.06.13 22:31

It gets even more weird, when you look at how they changed the "official stance" over time.
This is part of the genesis of the story.  It repeats some of what was seen earlier.

Initial recognition and acceptance
3 May 2007   (NOTE:  this information was not released until May 2011)
p.  75  “Had Madeleine been given some kind of sedative to keep her quiet ?  Had the twins, too ?”   

5 May 2007       (NOTE:  statement dated 25 April 2008)
“They also wanted to know whether the PJ had any evidence that would suggest that the person who took Madeleine had used any substance to facilitate the abduction.”   

3 August 2007   (NOTE:  this information was not released until June 2008)
“due to which she now presumes that they were under the effect of some sedative drug that a presumed abductor had administered to the three children in order to be able to abduct Madeleine, a situation which Kate refers to being possible . .” 

August 2007
Q: Do you think the children were sedated?
A: There is no doubt.  (Here he told an anecdote: that Kate called a colleague of Gonçalo Amaral's in the PJ, in August, to ask them to check the twins for traces of sedation. Apparently Kate was alone when she called, and a bit upset. That same afternoon, Gerry called and cancelled the request.)  

First denials that the parents had used sedation
August 2007
See previous entry. “That same afternoon, Gerry called and cancelled the request.
10 August 2007  ( or thereabouts)
Gerry:  “you know we’re not gonna comment, on anything but you know there is absolutely no way we use any sedative drugs or anything like that an’ you know we we have co-operated with the police we’ll answer any queries ermm … any tests that they want to do. . . “ 

Implied acceptance of possibility
24 September 2007
Forensic scientist from Control Risks take hair samples from Kate and the twins at the McCanns’ own request   

2 October 2007
Madeleine was drugged by her abductor”, says her grandmother  

Resumed denials
20 October 2007
Scientific tests now support the denials by Gerry and Kate McCann that they ever sedated their children, it emerged yesterday.     

25 Oct. 2007
The McCanns, of Rothley, Leics, were asked if reports that they sedated their children were true.    Cardiologist Gerry replied: "It is ludicrous. These sort of questions are nonsense and we shouldn't be giving them the time of day.   There is absolutely no suggestion that Madeleine, or the children, were drugged. It's outrageous."     

Oct 2007
Oprah Winfrey "And then, there were the... the hurtful rumours that you drugged Madeleine or that you gave her sedatives; that you accidentally caused her... her death..."
KM: (After a long pause) "I mean we know it's all lies."
GM: "It's just nonsense you know, there's no... that people can have theories and that's all it is, there's no evidence to suggest any of that and it's absolute ludicrous, you know, and it's..."  

Second acceptance of possibility
19 Nov. 2007
Gerry McCann:  The twins were still sleeping in the their cots so . . .   we tried to leave it as undisturbed as possible, and they slept very soundly until we moved them out  their cots into another apartment . .    which does make you wonder if there was [sic] any substances used to keep them asleep.”           

Independent Witnesses
25 April 2008    (referring to early May 2007)
They also wanted to know whether the PJ had any evidence that would suggest that the person who took Madeleine had used any substance to facilitate the abduction.   

5 Nov. 2007
Diane Webster - Fiona Payne’s mother:  “Err the twins were still asleep in the cot and I, with all the noise going on I don’t know how they slept through it which makes me think there was, they must have been err drugged with something.” . . . 
“So how would you imagine that they may have been drugged?”
“Err by the abductor. I think Madeleine would have been drugged as well.”  [3.14]

10 April 2008
Fiona Payne:  “But they were okay, I mean, they were fine, they didn’t, they were asleep, but at the time it did seem weird . . .  they didn’t wake up and, again, that was quite strange, even in the transfer and, and being handled by people that weren’t their parents, they didn’t, they didn’t wake up.”  

NOTA BENE:     July 2008
Documents in the case including witness statements were released to the public.  At this point Diane Webster’s and Fiona Payne’s statements (above) became public knowledge, and may have been seen by the McCanns for the first time.

Public statements that it MUST have happened
11 Oct. 2009
Former police detectives David Edgar and Arthur Cowley . . . are convinced the abductor went to the family’s apartment on May 3 2007 fully prepared with sufficient drugs, probably chloroform, to knock out all three children.   The fact that Sean and Amelie, then just 18 months old, failed to wake when the alarm was raised, nor even as they were taken to another apartment in the cold night air, has persuaded the detectives that they, too, must have been drugged.  

13 May 2011
Kate McCann:  I believe kidnapper drugged my twins on the night Madeleine was taken.  Kate McCann said the kidnapper who seized Madeleine may also have drugged her other two children, as she launched a new appeal in the hunt for her missing girl today.
Mrs McCann said she had to check that twins Sean and Amelie were still breathing because they did not wake as they began a frantic search for the missing three-year-old.  

I suppose from this nonsense we can suppose that they both realise that the fact of the sedation is out in the open, and they cannot avoid it.

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Re: Kate is 'thrown'

Post by Guest on 21.06.13 22:46

IMO they've been given quite a lot of rope
and they used it ...

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Re: Kate is 'thrown'

Post by PeterMac on 21.06.13 22:52

and to put it very briefly
They accept that the children were sedated
It is impossible for an intruder - even if there were one - to sedate three children within the 1 minute and 20 seconds.  There is no known substance which would act within that time scale and in that manner.
Two qualified anaesthetists did not perform any of the necessary resuscitation procedures . . .

Therefore we can conclude  . . . they knew exactly what had been used, who administered it, when, how much, and why.
If you don't like that conclusion, Kevin, give the GMC a ring and have them both struck off.

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Re: Kate is 'thrown'

Post by Guest on 21.06.13 22:56

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Re: Kate is 'thrown'

Post by jd on 21.06.13 23:07

thumbup

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Re: Kate is 'thrown'

Post by Newintown on 22.06.13 19:36

@PeterMac wrote:and to put it very briefly
They accept that the children were sedated
It is impossible for an intruder - even if there were one - to sedate three children within the 1 minute and 20 seconds.  There is no known substance which would act within that time scale and in that manner.
Two qualified anaesthetists did not perform any of the necessary resuscitation procedures . . .

Therefore we can conclude  . . . they knew exactly what had been used, who administered it, when, how much, and why.
If you don't like that conclusion, Kevin, give the GMC a ring and have them both struck off.

I would think that chloroform is the only method of sedation that would work very quickly but it stinks too much.   I was out shopping yesterday and kept getting whiffs of TCP from a nearby shopper, it lingers for hours.

It's very telling that Kate McCann didn't wake the twins up, why not, after such a traumatic event had occurred.  I would have been worried sick that they had been injured or something done to them if my other daughter had been "abducted",   If they had been sedated no wonder she wouldn't wake them up as she knew they couldn't wake up.  Was her "testing their breathing" all for show to the PJ or was she worried they'd been given too much sedative?

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