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Why no body after all this time?

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by notlongnow on 17.01.14 9:59

Sorry but i'd be out every day all day driving and looking as i guess many others would do the same.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Woofer on 17.01.14 12:46

@Nina wrote:A long time to go without a car when so many family members were visiting. How did they get from the airport, were we ever told? I know much was made of picking up visitors or returning them to the airport once they had the car, so what happened before for such journeys.

Good point.

Unless Mark Warner provided transport ?  But there were rather a lot of friends and family arriving weren`t there.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Guest on 17.01.14 13:01

@Woofer wrote:
@Nina wrote:A long time to go without a car when so many family members were visiting. How did they get from the airport, were we ever told? I know much was made of picking up visitors or returning them to the airport once they had the car, so what happened before for such journeys.

Good point.

Unless Mark Warner provided transport ?  But there were rather a lot of friends and family arriving weren`t there.
***
I haven't seen anything about that [yet], but it wouldn't surprise me if MW indeed freely provided accommodation [as well as creche facilities - food & drink?] ánd transportation, but after nearly 4 weeks subtly started suggesting that maybe TM should organise themselves independently ...

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by HelenMeg on 17.01.14 13:41

I know what you mean Void, but it may depend on circumstances.  If my child went missing from home then I'd get out there looking
in the nearby vicinity, with mobile phone, while someone remained at home just in case.
If, like in the abduction 'scenario' the child went missing in the evening,  from her bed, in a foreign country I woul dmake sure one of
us was out there searching around the complex etc whilst perhaps one stayed at the apartment to co-ordinate activities. Certainly I cant imagine
a situation where both parents felt comfortable to stay at the apartment if they believed their child was missing.

I think, IMO, the Mc Canns felt they must remain together due to the VITAL distinguishing factor of their situation - neither trusted each other - they weren't free to
tell the truth and act naturally - everything was a lie from this point onwards. They were lying to the police, public, TV , friends, relatives  - and it isn't easy to
maintain a lie like that - they needed mutual support in case either inadvertently let the 'cat out of the bag'.    Can you imagine - going from leading a relatively carefree
existence where you be honest and natural - to suddenly having the biggest secret in the world  - you can not afford to slip up at all from that day onwards. Would you want your wife
out in the open, liable to breakdown and spill secrets? No, it was safer for them to remain inside together.... well, that's my opinion... besides
they knew she wasn't around because they knew she hadn't wandered off or been abducted...
These are only my opinions - may not be fact - !!!! Felt I had to say that big grin

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Bishop Brennan on 17.01.14 14:35

@HelenMeg wrote:
I think, IMO, the Mc Canns felt they must remain together due to the VITAL distinguishing factor of their situation - neither trusted each other - they weren't free to
tell the truth and act naturally - everything was a lie from this point onwards.

That makes perfect sense. If the whole abduction was made up, then it would take 2 people constantly on guard to make sure no errors were made. Splitting up even for a few minutes could have been disaster. Hence, neither went out on their own at any time - even to jog! The stories had to gel at all times. Each had to hear what the other said. And it's probably kept them together ever since, although by now the story is well-rehearsed - with even the initial 'tells' that screamed out from the early videos removed.

As to the main thread - why has her body never been found? Well, nobody knows where to look. If she was abducted, she could be anywhere. If she died in the flat, then discovery is more likely, but even then where would you even start to look...?

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Hobs on 17.01.14 17:41

Huelva is important to the mccanns and may be where Maddie is currently placed.

Why i hear you ask?

Think about it for a moment.

Their daughter goes missing , you know the story by heart by now.

What however is missing?

They drove to Huelva in their hire car to hand out posters, be seen and get their message out.

They went on a bank holiday ( trust me they knew, they planned it deliberately imo)
It was all over the news, headlines etc.

What is missing?

Give up?

Where are all the visitis to other towns surroung PDL and en route to Spain etc?

If they drove all the way to Huelva on a bank holiday to get posters etc out there why were they not doing in surrounding towns?

We know they were driving frequently to and from the airport, why not make a minor detail and hand out flyers etc in towns they passed through?

They didn't because imo they never had a need to, adfter all they knew where she was.

Imo,they had to move Maddie's remains from wherever they were as dogs etc were being brought in hence their trip to Huelva, allegedly so they could be seen to be doing something other than jogging.

This is the only time they were seen doing something useful to the case and it was in a town plenty of miles away, on a bank holiday, with no press and  a few missing hours.

This was a break from their usual pattern of behavior and thus must be noted.

Whatever they did that day was for a specific reason , not the reason they said imo.

Something was done that day for a specific reason, that did not need doing any other time, it was a one off.

It's a shame the PJ didn't seize the car on their return and have forensics go over it, especially the underside as much could be told from materials caught up oin the tire and dirt in relation to where they actually went as opposed to where they  claim they went.

All the other times they went out of the country it was to glad hand celebs and locals and be feted.

F Huelva i feel is the key to the case.

Opinions please :)

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Guest on 17.01.14 18:42

I agree, Hobs. The timing of the trip indicates they were forced into a move by the presence of the dogs. I've already stated earlier on the thread that IMO the bogs and marshes around that part of the Portuguese and Spanish coast towards Huelva are one of the only ways a body could be completely disposed of. I didn't know about the acid beds then, they're also a possibility.

Incidentally, do we know if the McCanns had prior warning that Eddie and Keelas' visit was imminent? I know Gerry was seen driving past when the dogs were in the apartment,  so they must have known the dogs had arrived, but how long had they known? I.e., how much time did they have to plan a move? Just theorizing, again.

ETA, wasn't there some discrepancy regarding the timelines of 'the trip to Huelva'? Didn't either the outward or homebound journey take longer than it should have done, based on sightings of them in Huelva and calculations based on the milage and average speeds possible on the road there?

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Guest on 17.01.14 21:13

Whole thread about the trip to Huelva here

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3326-trip-to-huelva?highlight=huelva

I believe it contains much info about timings, mileages etc

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Guest on 17.01.14 23:09

BlackCatBoogie wrote:Whole thread about the trip to Huelva here

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3326-trip-to-huelva?highlight=huelva

I believe it contains much info about timings, mileages etc

Thank you, BlackCat. Off to recap!

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by void on 18.01.14 1:04

Everybody who took the time to read and reply to my post, thanks, but let me clarify my viewpoint.

I am not saying that if my own child were to go missing I would sit at home and sob. That is absolutely untrue. But it does very much depend on the circumstances as one of the previous posters said.

At home, in the UK, where I live, if my child disappeared sometime within the last 30 minutes or few hours I would most certainly be out searching frantically and asking anybody and everybody for any help they could possibly provide. That is of course a given.

But realistically, in a foreign country, where you don't speak the language, drunk, tired, at 10:00pm and with two younger twins I find it unlikely that the parents would have seen it an option to go out searching in any case. They were really at the mercy of the emergency services on that night. REMEMBER, however, that I am only speaking hypothetically, and arguing that we should consider both viewpoints. Of course the McCanns are guilty of a whole host of crimes, and there is a possibility that they are also involved with the disappearance and concealment of the death of their daughter as evidence would indicate, and I very much agree with this. But it is somewhat unprofessional to scrutinise the behaviour of the McCanns right down to the fact of whether they searched for their daughter at all.

In actual fact, they did look, but not on the night she disappeared and not for a vastly extensive period of time. You have to really ask yourself the question - what really IS realistic behaviour. As much as we can gossip, and effectively it is just gossip, it isn't right to judge the couple based on actions which are otherwise reasonably explainable. That is where we make a mistake — imagine that the two of them are truly innocent. An objective point of view is vital when reviewing this case. There is a possibility that they are innocent; they have NOT been proven guilty by a court of law, and that is how we define 'guilty' in 2014 society.

There are indeed two possibilities with regards to this objective point of view,
- the McCanns did indeed partake in the concealment of the body of Madeleine McCann, or;
- Kate and Gerry McC are 'cold' people, who are emotionally superior to the majority of other human beings, and can retain a semi-rational frame of mind even when faced with one of the most distressing situations that could occur for any parent.

The first sounds much likelier, but we cannot say for certain that 'oh yes they are guilty/it indicates further guilt because they didn't search that night'. We have to review the factual information in order to make a personal judgement or assumption here. Goncalo Amaral is NOT being sued because he wrote a book about how the McCanns failed to search for their daughter that night — but because he wrote about the PJ's THEORIES (which, YES, WERE VERY STRONG) that the parents had some sort of involvement. There was indicative evidence to suggest that they may have had some partaking in the disappearance of their daughter, but failing to search on the night of the disappearance was certainly not one of those pieces of evidence.

I know that as humans we like to judge and make assumptions, but let's be honest here. The couple have suffered a great deal of real pain. If they know that their daughter is dead and were involved in the concealment of her body, they are undoubtably living in endless grief, guilt, shame and fear. Not to mention their sentence to hell on judgement day. BUT, if by a 1 in a gazamatazalarazayamaha-trillion chance, they are innocent, or semi-innocent in some respect, then they are suffering simply in the fact that we as fellow human beings have the audacity to judge the case of their missing daughter on non-evidence. It isn't right.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by tigger on 18.01.14 5:49

void wrote:
In actual fact, they did look, but not on the night she disappeared and not for a vastly extensive period of time. You have to really ask yourself the question - what really IS realistic behaviour. As much as we can gossip, and effectively it is just gossip, it isn't right to judge the couple based on actions which are otherwise reasonably explainable. That is where we make a mistake — imagine that the two of them are truly innocent. An objective point of view is vital when reviewing this case. There is a possibility that they are innocent; they have NOT been proven guilty by a court of law, and that is how we define 'guilty' in 2014 society.
Unquote


In actual fact they - or rather Kate - SAID they searched for an hour when it got light. This iirc is the FIRST time we hear of their search, FOUR years after the event when quite a lot had been written on the internet about their unusual behaviour.

Your reasoning is faulty imo, Of course they've not been proven guilty in a court of law for the simple reason they've not been charged and tried in a court of law. That goes for a lot of people.
The definition of 'guilty' then doesn't apply to someone who confesses to a crime voluntarily? Or is that only for 2014.  nah 

But their own lawyer stated in court last year that there was no evidence of abduction.

That might be helpful.  pray2 

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Guest on 18.01.14 7:14

Void wrote:
quote
"But realistically, in a foreign country, where you don't speak the language, drunk, tired, at 10:00pm and with two younger twins I find it unlikely that the parents would have seen it an option to go out searching in any case."

Can I ask if you have children Void?

Because, lets not forget that there was a three year old little girl who didn't speak the language, possibly drugged, tired, at 10:00pm....
Who (if alive) would have also been cold, terrified, and looking for her mummy and daddy.

I am sorry, but how anyone could try to sleep knowing that their child was in those circumstances deserves the closest scrutiny.

Because that is not demonstrating "emotional superiority" as you describe it. It is the action of parents with absolutely no emapthy for their 3 year old child.
You say we should have empathy for The McCanns?

I am afraid my empathy lies with Madeleine.





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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by suep on 18.01.14 7:39

dantezebu wrote:Void wrote:
quote
"But realistically, in a foreign country, where you don't speak the language, drunk, tired, at 10:00pm and with two younger twins I find it unlikely that the parents would have seen it an option to go out searching in any case."

Can I ask if you have children Void?

Because, lets not forget that there was a three year old little girl who didn't speak the language, possibly drugged, tired, at 10:00pm....
Who (if alive) would have also been cold, terrified, and looking for her mummy and daddy.

I am sorry, but how anyone could try to sleep knowing that their child was in those circumstances deserves the closest scrutiny.

Because that is not demonstrating "emotional superiority" as you describe it. It is the action of parents with absolutely no emapthy for their 3 year old child.
You say we should have empathy for The McCanns?

I am afraid my empathy lies with Madeleine.

Mine too, dantezebu. It wouldn't matter where I was in the world the only image in my head would be my terrified child. I wouldn't be capable of being so convinced of abduction - even with clear evidence of it, which Kate didn't have - I would HAVE to go out looking for her.
It isn't emotionally superior to scream, bang on walls etc, be obnoxious to an elderly lady who offers help or, as Gerry is reported to have done, lie on the floor having what sounds like a tantrum.

All that sounds like anger to me, not frantic worry.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Miraflores on 18.01.14 8:16

Nor would most of us go straight to the Press, or change our stories to the Police......

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Research_Reader on 18.01.14 8:44

@Hobs wrote:
Something was done that day for a specific reason, that did not need doing any other time, it was a one off.


Very good points. I wonder if the hire vehicle had a GPS unit on-board? It might have retained a record of the vehicle's exact movements.

I do also think that the reservoir 'Barragem do Arade' is worth another look as wasn't that one of the police search areas early on? And wouldn't a nearby reservoir be a good place to dispose of a body?

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by sami on 18.01.14 9:19

@void wrote:But realistically, in a foreign country, where you don't speak the language, drunk, tired, at 10:00pm and with two younger twins I find it unlikely that the parents would have seen it an option to go out searching in any case. They were really at the mercy of the emergency services on that night. REMEMBER, however, that I am only speaking hypothetically, and arguing that we should consider both viewpoints.

I know that as humans we like to judge and make assumptions, but let's be honest here. The couple have suffered a great deal of real pain. If they know that their daughter is dead and were involved in the concealment of her body, they are undoubtably living in endless grief, guilt, shame and fear. Not to mention their sentence to hell on judgement day. BUT, if by a 1 in a gazamatazalarazayamaha-trillion chance, they are innocent, or semi-innocent in some respect, then they are suffering simply in the fact that we as fellow human beings have the audacity to judge the case of their missing daughter on non-evidence. It isn't right.


This "foreign country" was Portugal and a tourist town.  Not lawless hills of outer Mongolia. They were able to brave the language barrier whilst ordering Tapas and playing tennis.  Madeleine and her siblings were left alone, in the dark, in a foreign country, where they didn't speak the language.  Indeed, IF Madeleine did wake and wander out, the elements you describe are exactly what she would have had to brave, all alone and tiny.

I have never known someone to be "semi-innocent", of any crime.  I dont understand what that means. However if they are innocent of either causing her death or concealing her body following an accident, they sure as eggs are eggs are guilty of not telling the whole truth about what happened that week.  So, if looking for sympathy votes, they would do well to start telling the truth.  They have had many years to overcome the fear and panic,  and are certainly in a good enough financial situation to pay for any necessary treatment.

If you want to see real pain, I suggest watching the footage of the Assistant Chief Constable in Scotland on Sky this morning, making the announcement of having found the little missing boy.  That man is clearly heartbroken, it is upsetting to watch him.  He has shown more emotion in a 30 second clip that either of the McCanns have in all these years.

If we as human beings were not judging this case, as you say, consider where it would most likely be now.  Nowhere.  That is where.  Madeleine's parents would be doing their world tour, whilst the limited company works away in the background raking in the funds for their retirement, whilst Kate prays and forgives the abductor, happy in the knowledge wherever Madeleine is she is giving her tuppence worth to the paedophile gang.  Alls well that ends well in the world of the McCanns.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by truthfultiger on 18.01.14 11:51

I don't in any way condone what the McCann's may have done but I can understand why, given the situation they found themselves in, they may have done it. If they drugged the kids and an accident happened, as doctors they would be struck off and their other children likely removed from their care. If their friends supplied drugs or were involved in some way they have motive to help in a cover up. In my opinion, and I know people may disagree, I believe that Gerry may be =
V controlling and that Kate it's the weaker character and dances to his tune. I believe that she would have confessed long ago to any wrong doing had he not been on the scene. I don't empathise but I can understand it. But most people wouldn't have got themselves into the situation in the first place. The fund cannot be excused tho.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by suep on 18.01.14 12:19

@sami wrote:
@void wrote:But realistically, in a foreign country, where you don't speak the language, drunk, tired, at 10:00pm and with two younger twins I find it unlikely that the parents would have seen it an option to go out searching in any case. They were really at the mercy of the emergency services on that night. REMEMBER, however, that I am only speaking hypothetically, and arguing that we should consider both viewpoints.

I know that as humans we like to judge and make assumptions, but let's be honest here. The couple have suffered a great deal of real pain. If they know that their daughter is dead and were involved in the concealment of her body, they are undoubtably living in endless grief, guilt, shame and fear. Not to mention their sentence to hell on judgement day. BUT, if by a 1 in a gazamatazalarazayamaha-trillion chance, they are innocent, or semi-innocent in some respect, then they are suffering simply in the fact that we as fellow human beings have the audacity to judge the case of their missing daughter on non-evidence. It isn't right.


This "foreign country" was Portugal and a tourist town.  Not lawless hills of outer Mongolia. They were able to brave the language barrier whilst ordering Tapas and playing tennis.  Madeleine and her siblings were left alone, in the dark, in a foreign country, where they didn't speak the language.  Indeed, IF Madeleine did wake and wander out, the elements you describe are exactly what she would have had to brave, all alone and tiny.

I have never known someone to be "semi-innocent", of any crime.  I dont understand what that means. However if they are innocent of either causing her death or concealing her body following an accident, they sure as eggs are eggs are guilty of not telling the whole truth about what happened that week.  So, if looking for sympathy votes, they would do well to start telling the truth.  They have had many years to overcome the fear and panic,  and are certainly in a good enough financial situation to pay for any necessary treatment.

If you want to see real pain, I suggest watching the footage of the Assistant Chief Constable in Scotland on Sky this morning, making the announcement of having found the little missing boy.  That man is clearly heartbroken, it is upsetting to watch him.  He has shown more emotion in a 30 second clip that either of the McCanns have in all these years.

If we as human beings were not judging this case, as you say, consider where it would most likely be now.  Nowhere.  That is where.  Madeleine's parents would be doing their world tour, whilst the limited company works away in the background raking in the funds for their retirement, whilst Kate prays and forgives the abductor, happy in the knowledge wherever Madeleine is she is giving her tuppence worth to the paedophile gang.  Alls well that ends well in the world of the McCanns.

You're so right about this. Its the first time in a long time I've seen a police officer of ACPO rank behave so authentically. And he's been out there on the front line supporting his officers, not sitting behind a desk. How I wish he was in charge of the McCann case.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Mirage on 18.01.14 12:38

@suep wrote:
@sami wrote:
@void wrote:But realistically, in a foreign country, where you don't speak the language, drunk, tired, at 10:00pm and with two younger twins I find it unlikely that the parents would have seen it an option to go out searching in any case. They were really at the mercy of the emergency services on that night. REMEMBER, however, that I am only speaking hypothetically, and arguing that we should consider both viewpoints.

I know that as humans we like to judge and make assumptions, but let's be honest here. The couple have suffered a great deal of real pain. If they know that their daughter is dead and were involved in the concealment of her body, they are undoubtably living in endless grief, guilt, shame and fear. Not to mention their sentence to hell on judgement day. BUT, if by a 1 in a gazamatazalarazayamaha-trillion chance, they are innocent, or semi-innocent in some respect, then they are suffering simply in the fact that we as fellow human beings have the audacity to judge the case of their missing daughter on non-evidence. It isn't right.


This "foreign country" was Portugal and a tourist town.  Not lawless hills of outer Mongolia. They were able to brave the language barrier whilst ordering Tapas and playing tennis.  Madeleine and her siblings were left alone, in the dark, in a foreign country, where they didn't speak the language.  Indeed, IF Madeleine did wake and wander out, the elements you describe are exactly what she would have had to brave, all alone and tiny.

I have never known someone to be "semi-innocent", of any crime.  I dont understand what that means. However if they are innocent of either causing her death or concealing her body following an accident, they sure as eggs are eggs are guilty of not telling the whole truth about what happened that week.  So, if looking for sympathy votes, they would do well to start telling the truth.  They have had many years to overcome the fear and panic,  and are certainly in a good enough financial situation to pay for any necessary treatment.

If you want to see real pain, I suggest watching the footage of the Assistant Chief Constable in Scotland on Sky this morning, making the announcement of having found the little missing boy.  That man is clearly heartbroken, it is upsetting to watch him.  He has shown more emotion in a 30 second clip that either of the McCanns have in all these years.

If we as human beings were not judging this case, as you say, consider where it would most likely be now.  Nowhere.  That is where.  Madeleine's parents would be doing their world tour, whilst the limited company works away in the background raking in the funds for their retirement, whilst Kate prays and forgives the abductor, happy in the knowledge wherever Madeleine is she is giving her tuppence worth to the paedophile gang.  Alls well that ends well in the world of the McCanns.

You're so right about this. Its the first time in a long time I've seen a police officer of ACPO rank behave so authentically. And he's been out there on the front line supporting his officers, not sitting behind a desk. How I wish he was in charge of the McCann case.

Or ACC Cotterill , a common sense officer who uses his eyes and experience of a range of human reactions. Following the press conference with Mick and Mairead Philpott, ACC Cotterill said:

"What was lacking, I think for me, was perhaps some heartfelt appeal in relation to finding the killer of his six children and proper displays of emotion, and maybe anger as well."





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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by tigger on 18.01.14 13:21

Sami wrote:

If you want to see real pain, I suggest watching the footage of the Assistant Chief Constable in Scotland on Sky this morning, making the announcement of having found the little missing boy. That man is clearly heartbroken, it is upsetting to watch him. He has shown more emotion in a 30 second clip that either of the McCanns have in all these years.

Unquote

I agree, I only saw a photograph of this police officer. Nothing fake or politically correct ( unlike the pink ribbon festooned force in Wales). He grieves for the child.

Eta: what if Maddie had 'disappeared' in Scotland - would we be here?

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by sami on 18.01.14 13:46

@tigger wrote:

I agree, I only saw a photograph of this police officer. Nothing fake or politically correct ( unlike the pink ribbon festooned force in Wales). He grieves for the child.

Eta: what if Maddie had 'disappeared' in Scotland - would we be here?


I don't know if we would be here Tigger, but I do think a lot has been learned from the McCann case both by us members of the public and police, although there are days I worry Mr Redwood was off sick fom school the day that particular lesson was being taught.

However that should not take away from what those men and women have achieved in Scotland in recent days and the way in which they have conducted themselves and the search.  It goes a long way to restoring my faith in policing which I must confess has been disappearing slowly but surely every day Mr Redwood stays silent.

That gentleman I saw on Sky appeared to be not only a fine policeman but a decent human being.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by ultimaThule on 18.01.14 13:50

@tigger wrote:Sami wrote:

If you want to see real pain, I suggest watching the footage of the Assistant Chief Constable in Scotland on Sky this morning, making the announcement of having found the little missing boy.  That man is clearly heartbroken, it is upsetting to watch him.  He has shown more emotion in a 30 second clip that either of the McCanns have in all these years.

Unquote

I agree, I only saw a photograph of this police officer. Nothing fake or politically correct ( unlike the pink ribbon festooned force in Wales). He grieves for the child.

Eta: what if Maddie had 'disappeared' in Scotland - would we be here?

IMO had this crime occurred anywhere in the UK there would be no need for this forum as the McCanns would have been charged and tried long ago and one, or both, of them could be due for release on licence sometime before this century is out of its teens.  

Given that the wee ginger laddie makes up for his intellectual inadequacies by using cunning and guile to achieve his ends, this raises the question of whether he cynically chose for his eldest daughter to 'disappear' in Portugal because he knew the odds of getting away with it would be improved in a country where the police would be disadvantaged by dealing with suspects with whom they did not share a common language and where he, and his spouse, could rely on the xenophobia of the UK's msm to further muddy the waters?

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by aquila on 18.01.14 14:18

@ultimaThule wrote:
@tigger wrote:Sami wrote:

If you want to see real pain, I suggest watching the footage of the Assistant Chief Constable in Scotland on Sky this morning, making the announcement of having found the little missing boy.  That man is clearly heartbroken, it is upsetting to watch him.  He has shown more emotion in a 30 second clip that either of the McCanns have in all these years.

Unquote

I agree, I only saw a photograph of this police officer. Nothing fake or politically correct ( unlike the pink ribbon festooned force in Wales). He grieves for the child.

Eta: what if Maddie had 'disappeared' in Scotland - would we be here?

IMO had this crime occurred anywhere in the UK there would be no need for this forum as the McCanns would have been charged and tried long ago and one, or both, of them could be due for release on licence sometime before this century is out of its teens.  

Given that the wee ginger laddie makes up for his intellectual inadequacies by using cunning and guile to achieve his ends, this raises the question of whether he cynically chose for his eldest daughter to 'disappear' in Portugal because he knew the odds of getting away with it would be improved in a country where the police would be disadvantaged by dealing with suspects with whom they did not share a common language and where he, and his spouse, could rely on the xenophobia of the UK's msm to further muddy the waters?
Hello ultimaThule,

I see you're using the 'wee ginger laddie' description. I thought that GM being ginger was a myth. I'm fascinated as to why being ginger makes a difference to a person's life and why GM would want to dye his hair to be more acceptable (I'm assuming that's what you mean).

Do you think it a good idea if a new topic were opened on this.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by aiyoyo on 18.01.14 14:34

Châtelaine wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
@Nina wrote:A long time to go without a car when so many family members were visiting. How did they get from the airport, were we ever told? I know much was made of picking up visitors or returning them to the airport once they had the car, so what happened before for such journeys.

Good point.

Unless Mark Warner provided transport ?  But there were rather a lot of friends and family arriving weren`t there.
***
I haven't seen anything about that [yet], but it wouldn't surprise me if MW indeed freely provided accommodation [as well as creche facilities  - food & drink?]  ánd transportation, but  after nearly 4 weeks subtly started suggesting that maybe TM should organise themselves independently ...

They had friends - remember Priest Hubbard and Kate's best mate Susan Hubbard ?

Susan Hubbard seems besotted with Kate that she followed Kate everywhere, even travelling to Rothley to babysit the twins.

Talking about SH, can anyone remember whether she was on of the witnesses at the Libel trial ?

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by tigger on 18.01.14 14:45

@aiyoyo wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
@Nina wrote:A long time to go without a car when so many family members were visiting. How did they get from the airport, were we ever told? I know much was made of picking up visitors or returning them to the airport once they had the car, so what happened before for such journeys.

Good point.

Unless Mark Warner provided transport ?  But there were rather a lot of friends and family arriving weren`t there.
***
I haven't seen anything about that [yet], but it wouldn't surprise me if MW indeed freely provided accommodation [as well as creche facilities  - food & drink?]  ánd transportation, but  after nearly 4 weeks subtly started suggesting that maybe TM should organise themselves independently ...

They had friends - remember Priest Hubbard and Kate's best mate Susan Hubbard ?

Susan Hubbard seems besotted with Kate that she followed Kate everywhere, even travelling to Rothley to babysit the twins.

Talking about SH, can anyone remember whether she was on of the witnesses at the Libel trial ?

The Camerons had friends who lent them a car. The Paynes had friends who got them new phones.
Geraghty organised the key to the church for them, they were up to their necks in lawyers and PR.

Yes, poor babes in the woods....

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