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Why no body after all this time?

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Woofer on 15.01.14 22:45

I may be naive, but no matter how many lies the Mcs have told, I find it hard to believe anyone would treat their deceased child with that amount of disrespect - unless of course they`re cut from the same cloth as the Ciprianos.
 
I`d like to think they found a sacred resting place for her - either that, or someone else still has her on ice.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Woofer on 15.01.14 22:51

@HelenMeg wrote:Also, it is important to remember that these were GPs and used to certifying dead bodies in the morgue. They are not squeamish and
to them a body is just a carcass. I work with a loot of doctors and they enjoy earning extra dosh for just going to the morgue and signing off the certificates..

Surely its different when its your own child.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by HelenMeg on 15.01.14 22:58

Yes I imagine it is different when its your child -  but I am guessing that when your whole future is at stake (jail / long sentence/ other kids placed into care) then
you're not going to take any risks about a body being found. I imagine that maybe Gerry would have done the concealment so that Kate didn't have to play a part in it.
Maybe thats why they enlisted the help of Jon Corner, a 3rd party, who could handle the body.

Anyway, if you think so much of your child (which most of us do) you wouldn't consider hiding their death and denying them a proper funeral etc. I would rather go to jail than deny my child
a proper service or memorial etc  - so these are not ordinary people .

If my child died I would be so distraught and grief-stricken that jail would be no problem to me. Imo, These people were able to face their daughter's death and then make plans to stage an abduction and
conceal the body God knows where... they (or at least one of them) is not noprmal as we know it..

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Guest on 15.01.14 23:20

@canada12 wrote:Remember that very early on Gerry and Kate asked the minister of the church for the key to the church, citing the excuse that they wanted to go and pray privately there. He gave them the key. It's always been on my mind that they may have either temporarily or permanently laid Madeleine to rest in a crypt or grave either inside the church (if such a thing exists) or in the churchyard (if such a thing exists in the churchyard). A cadaver dog would never be able to sniff out M's remains there because of the existence of other dead people. It would be a perfect place to conceal a body.
This is very convincing.  I'll wager this was the temporary hiding place before permanent concealment could happen. Whoever thought of his in the heat of the moment was very clever, unless, of course, it wasn't thought of in the heat of the moment.

Again, pure guesswork and wild speculation.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Guest on 15.01.14 23:53

Just a gentle reminder, when posting please make sure you state what you post is only your opinion and not make it sound like fact.  I am having to add a few IMO  to posts, please make sure you state it is only your theory or your own opinion.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by marconi on 16.01.14 0:15

How to dig a hole in Algarve that has a very hard ground and not attracting the attention?  My therory is that the body is in Luz or Praia da Luz, perhaps even in the church.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by marconi on 16.01.14 0:18

@NickE wrote:Ribeira do Vascão or Huelva acid beds.

Very far away and traveling around with a decomposing body?

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Guest on 16.01.14 0:30

A theoretical question: If the body was still in the original hiding place local to the apartment, e.g., the church or graveyard, why would the car hired 21 days later test positive via Eddie's alerts to cadaverine? Theoretically, the body must've been moved in it.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by marconi on 16.01.14 1:54

Dee Coy wrote:A theoretical question: If the body was still in the original hiding place local to the apartment, e.g., the church or graveyard, why would the car hired 21 days later test positive via Eddie's alerts to cadaverine? Theoretically, the body must've been moved in it.

I think that the body was moved to a few different places before it definitely went to a safe grave.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by void on 16.01.14 2:33

How can you move the body of your own 4 year old daughter, rotting and decaying, lifeless and expelling such foul odour, and live with yourself? I just don't understand the entire facade, it's beginning to really disturb me. If the McCanns did have anything to do with the moving of their daughter or have any knowledge at all about it, I feel deeply saddened for them because only somebody who is sick could even handle this and then live with it for 7 years after. Poor poor child, my heart really goes out to the beautiful girl.

As much as I know that Kate and Gerry have seemed so distant and behaviourally inappropriate, which would suggest that may have something to do with or know something about the disappearance of Maddie, and should this be proven, I will be overjoyed to see them receive the justice they would deserve, I can only say that I hope and pray that the child is returned safely to her family, alive and truly well, out of love and fear for what could potentially have happened to her should an abduction actually had taken place.

The whole case is just so wound up in itself, I find it so hard to fathom why it wasn't dealt with professionally from the start.

Religious or not, the both of them are damned to hell and deeper should they even be keeping so much as a blip secret about the case. That is not right.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by canada12 on 16.01.14 2:45

I think the initial hiding place may have not been the church. I think the church was likely the second hiding place (after K & G asked for the key and made many visits to the church privately to "pray"). I think after a safe period of time M was moved from the church to a third location and possibly more (hence the cadaver odour and small traces of DNA in the trunk of the Scenic). As for a final resting place, I tend to think either a remote place like Huelva acid beds, where it would be impossible to locate and retrieve a body, or I think M's remains were cremated at some point and her ashes returned to the UK (you can courier anything these days). I doubt her ashes would be kept in the open, as tantalizing as it is to theorize that the jar on the mantlepiece contains them. But I think they may be in a secret location, or I think they could have just been scattered in a very private ceremony.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by marconi on 16.01.14 5:42

Canada, 12, where would the McCanns find a crematory to cremate their child? In 24, 36 hours whole Portugal and Spain would recognize them and besides it took them 25 days to rent a car. And they transported the body in it, a sign that the corpse was still in Luz when they rent the car.
The distance between Luz en Huelva is horrendly big when one is transporting a dead body. Imagine a car accident, Gerry used to drive on the left side of the road...
And do you believe that the PJ let them drive to Huelva or to any other place without being followed? I don't.
My theory is that somebody might have bought an apartment somewhere in or near Luz, a freezer, etc... perhaps payed by Brian Kennedy.
The McCanns rent the Scenic one day before they went to the Vatican, privete plane, and they took the whole media with them.
Luz and Praia da Luz were empty for some days, a great chance to
 moving the body to some other place. A cousin of them stayed in their house, in PdL.

Another suspicious thing was Gerry's appeal to the abductor, 24 hours after the disappearance, at 10 pm, in dark, holding a lamp on his text. Why not during the day?
Where were Tapas 7 and some relatives at that moment? Checking on the body? Searching for a better place to hid it?

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by NickE on 16.01.14 6:03

tning wrote:I think it was moved a few times and the last time with the car, and correct me if I'm wrong but is'nt something with Catholics, visit the grave and 3 months?arconi
@NickE wrote:Ribeira do Vascão or Huelva acid beds.

Very far away and traveling around with a decomposing body?

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by marconi on 16.01.14 7:18

I remember a comment of Amaral's when Kate went to the church Luz, around November the 2nd. He said that she wanted to be near Madeleine and I had the impression he was insinuating that the body was somewhere there.

As far as I know, Catholics don't go visiting graves every three months. What I observe is that Catholics chose for funerals instead of for cremations.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by canada12 on 16.01.14 8:03

@marconi wrote:Canada, 12, where would the McCanns find a crematory to cremate their child? In 24, 36 hours whole Portugal and Spain would recognize them and besides it took them 25 days to rent a car. And they transported the body in it, a sign that the corpse was still in Luz when they rent the car.
The distance between Luz en Huelva is horrendly big when one is transporting a dead body. Imagine a car accident, Gerry used to drive on the left side of the road...
And do you believe that the PJ let them drive to Huelva or to any other place without being followed? I don't.
My theory is that somebody might have bought an apartment somewhere in or near Luz, a freezer, etc... perhaps payed by Brian Kennedy.
The McCanns rent the Scenic one day before they went to the Vatican, privete plane, and they took the whole media with them.
Luz and Praia da Luz were empty for some days, a great chance to
 moving the body to some other place. A cousin of them stayed in their house, in PdL.

Another suspicious thing was Gerry's appeal to the abductor, 24 hours after the disappearance, at 10 pm, in dark, holding a lamp on his text. Why not during the day?
Where were Tapas 7 and some relatives at that moment? Checking on the body? Searching for a better place to hid it?

Yes I can see your arguments. They did travel to Huelva on August 3 though, after postponing it for one day, on a day when everything was closed. They were there to distribute posters and leaflets, however the trip made little sense as no one was around due to the holiday. You can read about it here:
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id168.html
The PJ investigated the trip after the fact - they were not aware of the trip at the time, it seems.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Guest on 16.01.14 9:31

Thinking of this question of why hasn't the body been found. If this situation appeared in print as a 'lateral thinking' puzzle, the total range of possible answers seem to be:

Possibilities

1    Because she was never there in the first place and died before the holiday and is therefore buried or was cremated somewhere other than in Portugal.

2    Because she's still alive, this being either known or not known by investigative sources.

3    Because the investigating authorities have elected not to or been discouraged from searching where it may have been found

4    Because they searched or were directed to search in the wrong locality/region/country

5    Because she is dead and if the body were to be found it would unearth something very unpalatable at a governmental /politically sensitive level/ scientific level which society is not deemed ready to hear.

6    It has been found and was recognisable as Madeleine but this fact was concealed

7    It has been found and was unrecognisable as Madeleine and has therefore not been linked to the case.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Seek truth on 16.01.14 9:34

Doesn't anybody think it is strange that they stay there all that time and didn't bother to rent a car, only 25 days later? 
They must have had a car. Nobody in the group?

If my daughter had gone missing the first thing I'd do was hire a car and go around searching, NOT SIT AT THE APPARTMENT quietly waiting for time to fly. They must have been very bored sitting there for 25 days!

Very strange.
Even poorer people rent cars for their holidays.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by NickE on 16.01.14 17:10

@Seek truth wrote:Doesn't anybody think it is strange that they stay there all that time and didn't bother to rent a car, only 25 days later? 
They must have had a car. Nobody in the group?

If my daughter had gone missing the first thing I'd do was hire a car and go around searching, NOT SIT AT THE APPARTMENT quietly waiting for time to fly. They must have been very bored sitting there for 25 days!

Very strange.
Even poorer people rent cars for their holidays.
It´s possible,David Payne seemed to have contacts down in Algarve.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by truthfultiger on 16.01.14 18:07

Didn't Robert Murat his car to a group of searchers? I just read his.police statement the other day and I'm sure it said that he rented a car because he lent his to a search party.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by NickE on 16.01.14 19:14

@truthfultiger wrote:Didn't Robert Murat his car to a group of searchers? I just read his.police statement the other day and I'm sure it said that he rented a car because he lent his to a search party.
Robert Murat's girlfriend Michaela Walczuch rented a car on May 5.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by roy rovers on 16.01.14 23:10

Could have been transported in a van via Spain to England IMO.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by marconi on 17.01.14 2:09

@canada12 wrote:
@marconi wrote:Canada, 12, where would the McCanns find a crematory to cremate their child? In 24, 36 hours whole Portugal and Spain would recognize them and besides it took them 25 days to rent a car. And they transported the body in it, a sign that the corpse was still in Luz when they rent the car.
The distance between Luz en Huelva is horrendly big when one is transporting a dead body. Imagine a car accident, Gerry used to drive on the left side of the road...
And do you believe that the PJ let them drive to Huelva or to any other place without being followed? I don't.
My theory is that somebody might have bought an apartment somewhere in or near Luz, a freezer, etc... perhaps payed by Brian Kennedy.
The McCanns rent the Scenic one day before they went to the Vatican, privete plane, and they took the whole media with them.
Luz and Praia da Luz were empty for some days, a great chance to
 moving the body to some other place. A cousin of them stayed in their house, in PdL.

Another suspicious thing was Gerry's appeal to the abductor, 24 hours after the disappearance, at 10 pm, in dark, holding a lamp on his text. Why not during the day?
Where were Tapas 7 and some relatives at that moment? Checking on the body? Searching for a better place to hid it?

Yes I can see your arguments. They did travel to Huelva on August 3 though, after postponing it for one day, on a day when everything was closed. They were there to distribute posters and leaflets, however the trip made little sense as no one was around due to the holiday. You can read about it here:
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id168.html
The PJ investigated the trip after the fact - they were not aware of the trip at the time, it seems.

Canada 12, the McCanns went to Huelva around the time that the dogs would point to them.  That trip was smoke and mirrors, to confuse the police, making everything messy and police and culprits have one thing in comon:
they all lie.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by void on 17.01.14 6:50

@Seek truth wrote:Doesn't anybody think it is strange that they stay there all that time and didn't bother to rent a car, only 25 days later? 
They must have had a car. Nobody in the group?

If my daughter had gone missing the first thing I'd do was hire a car and go around searching, NOT SIT AT THE APPARTMENT quietly waiting for time to fly. They must have been very bored sitting there for 25 days!

Very strange.
Even poorer people rent cars for their holidays.
Hmm... Many seem to have the same view as you, but perhaps there is an alternate view.

Just because your child has gone missing, renting a car and going out to search for them does not really increase the chances of finding them. If anything, you would be better off staying at the apartment with your family and other children and allow the investigative authorities to do their work. As they are professionals in the field, two extra doctors on holiday in a country they do not know are of no use to the search.

I do agree that they exhibited increasingly odd behaviour as time went by, but rather than being judgemental we have to look at the factual matters and I think that as much as it is easy to criticise every move that the McCanns have made, there are occasions where we have to thing about their manner from an objective point of view. If indeed their child HAD been abducted, I'm not suggesting that she had by any means, but in the event that she had, they would be better off emotionally to remain at the apartment rather than galavanting aimlessly and simply raising their anxiety even further about the situation. If the police force are having trouble finding her, what chance have unprofessionals in the area got? Next to no likelihood that they'd have been of any help.

Am I right in exploring this viewpoint or would you say it is likely that a parent would physically go out and search for their missing child?

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by suep on 17.01.14 7:29

Void, I have to disagree with you. Your argument is rational but if your child is missing its not possible IMO to think or act rationally. On the odd occasion that one of my children briefly went missing - usually by going into a friend's house and not telling me - I simply could not keep still or think straight. I HAD to do something, knocking on doors and walking round the local area until I found them. Thankfully I always did quite quickly. If they'd been missing for any length of time I can't imagine that feeling subsiding, I can't imagine even thinking of going to bed as K and G did because rest would have been impossible.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Nina on 17.01.14 9:40

A long time to go without a car when so many family members were visiting. How did they get from the airport, were we ever told? I know much was made of picking up visitors or returning them to the airport once they had the car, so what happened before for such journeys.

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