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Why no body after all this time?

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Why no body after all this time?

Post by Ayniia on Tue May 28, 2013 11:54 am

There's topics about where's the body but my point is not where it is is WHY haven't it been found ?
Even not believing the Mccanns were so religious before the "abduction" as they tried to look, Kate always seemed to me to take some comfort on religion.That made me wonder on how she would surely like to have her daughter properly buried. From the scenic forensics we know the body was moved. IMO the original plan was for it to be found at some point. Something made them change their minds. I don't think that sedatives would just be the cause of that. Of course the sedation could have come from the "abductor". Some injury like the one Jon Benet Ramsey had in her skull, could also be pinned on the "abductor". The only thing that comes to my mind that could not be explained like that,was the hypothesis of a tracheotomy.
The body would also mean the end of the "fund" but as much as I see the Mccanns as ... opportunists , I still believe they'd (or at least Kate) prefer the solace of knowing publicly what happened and where Madeleine is. Anyway I'm curious to know what will happen to the fund as next year is the 7th year. "In most common law jurisdictions a missing person can be declared dead in absentia (or "legally dead") after seven years." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_person
What are your thoughts on this? Why no body,no bones?

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Peneda Geres on Tue May 28, 2013 12:03 pm

@Ayniia wrote:There's topics about where's the body but my point is not where it is is WHY haven't it been found ?
Even not believing the Mccanns were so religious before the "abduction" as they tried to look, Kate always seemed to me to take some comfort on religion.That made me wonder on how she would surely like to have her daughter properly buried. From the scenic forensics we know the body was moved. IMO the original plan was for it to be found at some point. Something made them change their minds. I don't think that sedatives would just be the cause of that. Of course the sedation could have come from the "abductor". Some injury like the one Jon Benet Ramsey had in her skull, could also be pinned on the "abductor". The only thing that comes to my mind that could not be explained like that,was the hypothesis of a tracheotomy.
The body would also mean the end of the "fund" but as much as I see the Mccanns as ... opportunists , I still believe they'd (or at least Kate) prefer the solace of knowing publicly what happened and where Madeleine is. Anyway I'm curious to know what will happen to the fund as next year is the 7th year. "In most common law jurisdictions a missing person can be declared dead in absentia (or "legally dead") after seven years." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_person
What are your thoughts on this? Why no body,no bones?

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Get'emGonçalo on Wed May 29, 2013 1:27 am

@Peneda Geres wrote:I still believe they'd (or at least Kate) prefer the solace of knowing publicly what happened and where Madeleine is.

With eau de cadavar on Kate's work/holiday pants don't you think she already knows what happened to Madeleine?

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Ayniia on Wed May 29, 2013 1:40 am

Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:
@Peneda Geres wrote:I still believe they'd (or at least Kate) prefer the solace of knowing publicly what happened and where Madeleine is.

With eau de cadavar on Kate's work/holiday pants don't you think she already knows what happened to Madeleine?

"Eau de cadavar" big grin
Yes of course she knows, I meant publicly. Having the "comfort " of public knowledge. But again, that would mean the end of the fund.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Get'emGonçalo on Wed May 29, 2013 1:49 am

@Ayniia wrote:
Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:
@Peneda Geres wrote:I still believe they'd (or at least Kate) prefer the solace of knowing publicly what happened and where Madeleine is.

With eau de cadavar on Kate's work/holiday pants don't you think she already knows what happened to Madeleine?

"Eau de cadavar" big grin
Yes of course she knows, I meant publicly. Having the "comfort " of public knowledge. But again, that would mean the end of the fund.

And that would never do winkwink

Nice avatar by the way...

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Woofer on Wed May 29, 2013 1:50 am

@Ayniia wrote:There's topics about where's the body but my point is not where it is is WHY haven't it been found ?
Even not believing the Mccanns were so religious before the "abduction" as they tried to look, Kate always seemed to me to take some comfort on religion.That made me wonder on how she would surely like to have her daughter properly buried. From the scenic forensics we know the body was moved. IMO the original plan was for it to be found at some point. Something made them change their minds. I don't think that sedatives would just be the cause of that. Of course the sedation could have come from the "abductor". Some injury like the one Jon Benet Ramsey had in her skull, could also be pinned on the "abductor". The only thing that comes to my mind that could not be explained like that,was the hypothesis of a tracheotomy.
The body would also mean the end of the "fund" but as much as I see the Mccanns as ... opportunists , I still believe they'd (or at least Kate) prefer the solace of knowing publicly what happened and where Madeleine is. Anyway I'm curious to know what will happen to the fund as next year is the 7th year. "In most common law jurisdictions a missing person can be declared dead in absentia (or "legally dead") after seven years." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_person
What are your thoughts on this? Why no body,no bones?

Good point, yes I suppose most violations could be pinned on `the abductor did it`, except some sort of medical intervention that only a medic would know how to do. But then there is the hair which would have shown any history of drugs being administered.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by plebgate on Wed May 29, 2013 1:56 am

I wonder what the legal position would be if after 7 years Maddie was "declared dead" with regards to her having been left alone in the apartment?

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by PeterMac on Wed May 29, 2013 2:02 am

@plebgate wrote:I wonder what the legal position would be if after 7 years Maddie was "declared dead" with regards to her having been left alone in the apartment?
I believe a relative has to apply for this.


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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by jd on Wed May 29, 2013 2:05 am

Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:
@Peneda Geres wrote:I still believe they'd (or at least Kate) prefer the solace of knowing publicly what happened and where Madeleine is.

With eau de cadavar on Kate's work/holiday pants don't you think she already knows what happened to Madeleine?

Makes you wonder why the SY "elite" team are focusing on a man from Switzerland who was living in Spain.....when the parents were reeking in death cadaver doesn't it!!!

Places and Items where the EVRD and CSI Dogs Signaled

The first alert was given with the dogs head in the air without a positive area
being identified.

Rear bedroom of the apartment in the immediate right hand corner by
the door.

In the cupboard

Living room, behind sofa.

Veranda outside parent's bedroom.

Garden area directly under veranda.

Cuddle Cat

Clothing belonging to Kate McCann x 2 - Trousers and a Top

Red Children’s T-Shirt

Hired Car – Renault Scenic
When passing a vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family,
the dog's behaviour changed substantially. This then produced an alert
indication at the lower part of the driver’s door where the dog was biting and
barking. I recognise this behaviour as the dog indicating scent emitting from
the inside of the vehicle through the seal around the door.

Hired Car – Key Fob

Five apartments were searched using the EVRD.

Ten vehicles were screened in an underground multi storey car park at
Portimao.

The cadaver dogs only alerted to property and items associated with the McCann family.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Ayniia on Wed May 29, 2013 2:07 am

Thank you very much Get 'em, that picture seemed brilliant to me.
Woofer thank you too and yes the hair may show drugs but any drug could be blamed on the abductor especially sedation would be "right up the Mccs alley "IMO.
From Wikipedia: "A person may be missing due to their own decision, accident, crime, death in a location where they cannot be found (such as at sea), or many other reasons. In some countries, missing persons' photographs are posted on bulletin boards, milk cartons, postcards, and websites, to publicize their description."

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by nomendelta on Wed May 29, 2013 3:40 am

I've always felt daddy-bear's comment of "Find the body, prove we killed her" to be very telling. It sounds more like the challenge of someone who knows they won't lose rather than a concerned parent - but that's just my conjecture and opinion.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by PeterMac on Wed May 29, 2013 4:15 am

And there was that very strange trip with the inflatable sign from Scotland to Portugal and back again !

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Ayniia on Wed May 29, 2013 4:25 am

@nomendelta wrote:I've always felt daddy-bear's comment of "Find the body, prove we killed her" to be very telling. It sounds more like the challenge of someone who knows they won't lose rather than a concerned parent - but that's just my conjecture and opinion.

That comment is very telling and was what made me think of other hypothesis rather than it being dump in the sea because even with weight there would always be the chance of a bag ripping or something. Telling also that Mr didn't said: we didn't do it / there's no proof she came to any harm.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Newintown on Wed May 29, 2013 5:41 am

@PeterMac wrote:And there was that very strange trip with the inflatable sign from Scotland to Portugal and back again !

It would be VERY interesting to know as to whether the lorry and sign were searched when entering the UK or if the cargo was just passed through because it was part of the SAINTED MCANNS media extravanza? Have SY checked that? I doubt it very much. They can't put the blame on the PJ for that c*ck up now, can they, if the UK port passed it through with no proper checks?

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by PeterMac on Wed May 29, 2013 6:18 am

There are very few checks actually made these days. Customs are 'intelligence led', and rather than doing random searches of stuff they prefer to target drugs, alcohol and tobacco.
I took a white van back to the UK many years ago, and was simply waved through. Not even a question about what I might have been carrying.
In a car a couple of years ago the door handles and steering wheel were merely swabbed for explosives, even though the back seats were folded down and it was full to the roof with a friend's effects.
A small blue tennis bag would go unnoticed.
What date was the return trip?
What date was the "Find the body and prove . . ."

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by nomendelta on Wed May 29, 2013 6:29 am

Right so think about this for the sake of argument. Your kid has been abducted...you have no clue by who or why. Since such cases often end tragically there's every chance that her body could be out there...so would you, in these circumstances, actually say "Find the body and prove we killed her" when those very words could come back to haunt you? If you were truly innocent and had no idea of what happened to your child would you say "Find the body" in such a defiant, challenging manner?

My own opinion, and it is just opinion, is that these kinds of words are more likely from someone that knows exactly what happened and that the chances of finding a body are nil.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Peneda Geres on Wed May 29, 2013 6:49 am

@nomendelta wrote:Right so think about this for the sake of argument. Your kid has been abducted...you have no clue by who or why. Since such cases often end tragically there's every chance that her body could be out there...so would you, in these circumstances, actually say "Find the body and prove we killed her" when those very words could come back to haunt you? If you were truly innocent and had no idea of what happened to your child would you say "Find the body" in such a defiant, challenging manner?

My own opinion, and it is just opinion, is that these kinds of words are more likely from someone that knows exactly what happened and that the chances of finding a body are nil.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Ayniia on Wed May 29, 2013 6:51 am

@nomendelta wrote:Right so think about this for the sake of argument. Your kid has been abducted...you have no clue by who or why. Since such cases often end tragically there's every chance that her body could be out there...so would you, in these circumstances, actually say "Find the body and prove we killed her" when those very words could come back to haunt you? If you were truly innocent and had no idea of what happened to your child would you say "Find the body" in such a defiant, challenging manner?

My own opinion, and it is just opinion, is that these kinds of words are more likely from someone that knows exactly what happened and that the chances of finding a body are nil.

If my kid was missing I'D GO OUT AND SEARCH.
Sorry for going OT but one night when my dog ran away at about 9pm me and hubbie were out looking for her until 3am when I reminded myself that I'd left the stove on. We went home, turned it off and resumed the search until the morning when we had to go to work. We were virtually without sleep / food for a week until we found her.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by PeterMac on Wed May 29, 2013 7:02 am

@PeterMac wrote:
A small blue tennis bag would go unnoticed.
What date was the return trip?
What date was the "Find the body and prove . . ."
Have answered my own question.
Trip with the inflatable sign was late May, lasted 13 days, 3 days of travel each way and a week on site.
"Find the Body . . . " was 13th September.
By which time it must have been clear . . .

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by sami on Wed May 29, 2013 7:13 am

@PeterMac wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
A small blue tennis bag would go unnoticed.
What date was the return trip?
What date was the "Find the body and prove . . ."
Have answered my own question.
Trip with the inflatable sign was late May, lasted 13 days, 3 days of travel each way and a week on site.
"Find the Body . . . " was 13th September.
By which time it must have been clear . . .


They would therefore have "played no active part" in her disappearance. I have always wondered why Gerry chose to use the word "active" at that time. It was so out of place and context.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Peneda Geres on Wed May 29, 2013 7:20 am

@sami wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
A small blue tennis bag would go unnoticed.
What date was the return trip?
What date was the "Find the body and prove . . ."
Have answered my own question.
Trip with the inflatable sign was late May, lasted 13 days, 3 days of travel each way and a week on site.
"Find the Body . . . " was 13th September.
By which time it must have been clear . . .


They would therefore have "played no active part" in her disappearance. I have always wondered why Gerry chose to use the word "active" at that time. It was so out of place and context.

sami, could you please post a link for this statement. Thanks in advance.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Monty Heck on Wed May 29, 2013 7:21 am

nomendelta Today at 6:29 pm

Right so think about this for the sake of argument. Your kid has been abducted...you have no clue by who or why. Since such cases often end tragically there's every chance that her body could be out there...so would you, in these circumstances, actually say "Find the body and prove we killed her" when those very words could come back to haunt you? If you were truly innocent and had no idea of what happened to your child would you say "Find the body" in such a defiant, challenging manner?

My own opinion, and it is just opinion, is that these kinds of words are more likely from someone that knows exactly what happened and that the chances of finding a body are nil.

Yes, people in circumstances where there is a high likelihood that such a body would be found at some point would not wish to tempt fate, so to speak with a declaration such as "find the body and prove we killed her". It is curious that the McCs never seem to have shown interest in finding a body, which despite the tragedy of such a discovery would at least provide some kind of closure.

Instead they have dismissed all and any indication that a death may have occurred. Indeed did not KMcC inform us in her book how she "began to RELAX" when shown the blood and cadaver dog footage. A child missing for the past 4 months or so and the mother being questioned for many hours in the presence of her lawyer and shown video of canine alerts indicating the likely death of her child is neither shocked nor fearful her child could possibly be dead? The only possible reason for feeling relaxed in such circumstances would be a) you already know the child has died and you also know there is no possiblilty of forensic confirmation or b) you know for a certainty that your child is alive. Thinking there is evidence that your child MIGHT be dead would send most of us into utter despair but not in this case. Only complete confidence she is alive and findable, with not a shred of evidence in 6 years to support that stance.

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Ayniia on Wed May 29, 2013 7:25 am

@sami wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
A small blue tennis bag would go unnoticed.
What date was the return trip?
What date was the "Find the body and prove . . ."
Have answered my own question.
Trip with the inflatable sign was late May, lasted 13 days, 3 days of travel each way and a week on site.
"Find the Body . . . " was 13th September.
By which time it must have been clear . . .


They would therefore have "played no active part" in her disappearance. I have always wondered why Gerry chose to use the word "active" at that time. It was so out of place and context.

Because IMO they really had no active part in it... not in the "abduction "

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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by aiyoyo on Wed May 29, 2013 7:31 am

@PeterMac wrote:There are very few checks actually made these days. Customs are 'intelligence led', and rather than doing random searches of stuff they prefer to target drugs, alcohol and tobacco.
I took a white van back to the UK many years ago, and was simply waved through. Not even a question about what I might have been carrying.
In a car a couple of years ago the door handles and steering wheel were merely swabbed for explosives, even though the back seats were folded down and it was full to the roof with a friend's effects.
A small blue tennis bag would go unnoticed.
What date was the return trip?
What date was the "Find the body and prove . . ."

You are right, customs are not too concerned with random checks unless they have been tipped off.
We took a van jammed full of all sorts back from France to UK just a few years ago and weren't even stopped even though we'd two young children squashed in the front seats with us.
Yet when we carried bottles of Marmite in the hand luggage, budget carrier you see, (trying to smuggle them to France) the customs confiscated them.
Just goes to show land vehicles do not go through same stringent checks at customs as airports.

I am guessing the inflatable helps to deflect attention as one would image customs on seeing that will be full of compassion to their plight little realising the implications or that it was a charade.

Incidentally late May coincides with rented Renault hired on 25 May (if I am not wrong).
That might explain the eau-de-Mccadaver in the Renault, used to deliver the 'product' to the van for cross country journey
Who drove the van for the round trip? anyone?


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Re: Why no body after all this time?

Post by Casey5 on Wed May 29, 2013 7:34 am

Ayniia Today at 6:51 pm


If my kid was missing I'D GO OUT AND SEARCH. Sorry
for going OT but one night when my dog ran away at about 9pm me and
hubbie were out looking for her until 3am when I reminded myself that
I'd left the stove on. We went home, turned it off and resumed the
search until the morning when we had to go to work. We were virtually
without sleep / food for a week until we found her.

But Ayniia, the McCanns' have searched ceaselessly for 6 years leaving no stone unturned. They have said so, the media have said so - repeatedly.
Well, ok not physically searched but have worked very hard at least after the first two days when, as Gerry said, they were barely functioning. Just playing with the twins, showering, eating meals cooked by relatives and sleeping well by day five, not to mention running and playing tennis.
How many runs or games of tennis did you and your husband manage Ayniia when you were looking for your dog, glad you found him/her by the way?

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