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Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by Guest on 21.05.13 8:47

Jozi - yes, the comment was to the effect that she and her husband did not allow paedos in their circle of friends.

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by tiny on 21.05.13 8:59

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@tiny wrote:Have there been any comments from the mccanns via Clarence Mitchell to this latest news, if not why not
This story both confirms kate's words about someone coming in the night before but simultaneously wrecks their version of checking. I can't see how they can respond to this - snookered springs to mind.
Yes I can see that,but if it confirms kate words why don't they just admit they never checked at all or would that throw a bigger spanner in the works.

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by russiandoll on 21.05.13 9:00

if in wrong place, please move :

ANORAK : THE COUPLE WHO HEARD A CHILD CRYING AT NIGHT AND WENT TO HELP.

In “WHO SOOTHED WEEPING MADDIE?" the Daily Express leads
with a Madeleine McCann “exclusive”. It adds: “Police seek couple who
entered McCann apartment when Madeleine was crying.”

This becomes:

Mystery couple seen going into McCanns’ flat on night before sobbing Madeleine disappeared

The
night before? A couple of strangers walked into the McCanns’ apartment
where a child was crying the night before that child vanished? How does
the Express know it was Madeleine who was crying? Three children were in
the McCanns’ apartment.

SCOTLAND YARD detectives are trying to
find a middle-aged couple said to have entered Madeleine McCann’s
holiday apartment to comfort her because she was crying, we can reveal
today.

This looks like new news. James Murray adds:

It is
believed they entered the bedroom on May 2, 2007, the evening before
Madeleine disappeared from the Ocean Club at Praia da Luz on Portugal’s
Algarve.

Believed? By whom? Who did they tell?

The tip-off was given by two key witnesses who were reinterviewed as part of the Yard’s two-year, £4.5million investigation.

It
is already known that Pamela Fenn, who lived directly above apartment
5a, heard a child, believed to be Madeleine, crying for about an hour on
the evening of May 2.

She was so concerned she rang a friend in the village to ask what to do and considered ringing Portugal’s Policia Judiciaria.

At the time, Madeleine’s mother Kate and father Gerry were dining with friends at a tapas bar some 50 yards from the apartment.

Had she only have rang the police things may well have been different for Madeleine.

An unnamed source tells the Express that a couple also heard the crying and went to help.

Pamela Fenn has since died. In 2007, The Daily Mail reported:

Pamela
Fenn, 81, lives above the apartment where Madeleine disappeared and is
reported to have told police she heard Madeleine screaming below. But
yesterday she broke her silence to say it was “absolute rubbish” she had
made any such claims to police. Mrs Fenn said: “I didn’t even know that
family was in there.”

So. What Murray says is “already known” is “rubbish”.

Murray
then does have some news. He says a couple, presumably the aforesaid
“key witnesses” who had been staying in the same block as the McCanns,
gave police a statement back in February. British police had previously
spoken with them. Murray reproduces extracts from that statement. He
also says the couple were never formally interviewed by Portuguese
detectives. The statement tells us:

“I stood on the balcony at about 9.15 with a whisky.

“I
saw people eating at the tapas bar and children in the play area. We
went to bed at 10pm-ish. We were woken up by our bell ringing at
11.30pm. It was a friend of the McCanns, saying that a little girl had
been abducted. The friend asked if we had a computer so they could get
the media involved in the search.

“Two police were on the corner
of our block, one lady said that off-duty police had come and were
searching. We did see single men on mobiles while we were out who could
have been police…

“We walked back up towards our apartment, a
group had gathered on the corner. The McCanns were in bits, he was
crying on the shoulder of a friend. She was screaming: ‘The f*****g
bastards have taken her’. Finally, at around 4am, we said: ‘Is it OK if
we go to bed?’ We directed this comment towards a man in a white shirt
and jeans, who seemed to be authoritative.”

The couple had not seen anything suspicious:

“We
have one of the best views of the whole block. We are sure of the
timings. If we had seen anyone we would have remembered. We will
continue to answer the Yard’s questions. We have given our fingerprints
and DNA. We were happy to assist. They should be left to get on with
their inquiries.”

Such are the facts…

____________________



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contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by russiandoll on 21.05.13 9:04

@tiny wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@tiny wrote:Have there been any comments from the mccanns via Clarence Mitchell to this latest news, if not why not
This story both confirms kate's words about someone coming in the night before but simultaneously wrecks their version of checking. I can't see how they can respond to this - snookered springs to mind.
Yes I can see that,but if it confirms kate words why don't they just admit they never checked at all or would that throw a bigger spanner in the works.


By admitting to fewer or even no checks, it widens the abduction window, conveniently. It also inconveniently demonstrates that by concealing this fact of fewer or no checks, they hindered the investigation and led police deliberately down a path limited to a tiny timeframe on 3. 5 07. Now with a beloved child gone, why on earth would they do that?
They can't spin their way out of this one.
q: do you believe it is the truth or a piece of journalistic mischief with a "wider agenda "?

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by tiny on 21.05.13 9:09

@russiandoll wrote:
@tiny wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@tiny wrote:Have there been any comments from the mccanns via Clarence Mitchell to this latest news, if not why not
This story both confirms kate's words about someone coming in the night before but simultaneously wrecks their version of checking. I can't see how they can respond to this - snookered springs to mind.
Yes I can see that,but if it confirms kate words why don't they just admit they never checked at all or would that throw a bigger spanner in the works.


By admitting to fewer or even no checks, it widens the abduction window, conveniently. It also inconveniently demonstrates that by concealing this fact of fewer or no checks, they hindered the investigation and led police deliberately down a path limited to a tiny timeframe on 3. 5 07. Now with a beloved child gone, why on earth would they do that?
They can't spin their way out of this one.
q: do you believe it is the truth or a piece of journalistic mischief with a "wider agenda "?
I believe it to be a load of bull,i think what they wanted to print was ,look out tapas and kate and Gerry your time is coming to an end.

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by jozi on 21.05.13 9:21

@Praiaaa wrote:They did seem untouchable, but after Jimmy Savile, I think the 'untouchablility' is breaking down - and particularly now that there have been recent high profile cases of child deaths caused by parents (Philpot) and parents' friends (Tia Sharpe) the public will be less surprised if TM turn out to be implicated.

IMO the public knows something is wrong with this case but can't quite put a finger on it ? Everybody is sick to death of the McCanns and their mouth piece Clarry and have faith the Police will do something if there is anything dodgy (we all do ) .....Its only the ones who have followed this case closely that think WTF ?

They don't have as many supporters as they want us to believe, they have ? Thats Clarrys job though , to try and change public opinion and tell us the public " that is why in every newspaper the McCanns are pushed down our throats " there is nothing wrong here,everyone loves us and feels sorry !!!

When in reality the public are sick to death of seeing and hearing them !!!

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by russiandoll on 21.05.13 9:22

It was written for a reason as was the tweet from M Brunt. He still has not briefly stated why he had to delete and re-post using "disappearance ", a quite understandable error using " murder" when there had been numerous tweets re 2 ongoing murder trials, children as victims. I believe that was done with an agenda as was the Express piece.

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by Angelique on 21.05.13 9:42

@russiandoll wrote:
@tiny wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@tiny wrote:Have there been any comments from the mccanns via Clarence Mitchell to this latest news, if not why not
This story both confirms kate's words about someone coming in the night before but simultaneously wrecks their version of checking. I can't see how they can respond to this - snookered springs to mind.
Yes I can see that,but if it confirms kate words why don't they just admit they never checked at all or would that throw a bigger spanner in the works.


By admitting to fewer or even no checks, it widens the abduction window, conveniently. It also inconveniently demonstrates that by concealing this fact of fewer or no checks, they hindered the investigation and led police deliberately down a path limited to a tiny timeframe on 3. 5 07. Now with a beloved child gone, why on earth would they do that?
They can't spin their way out of this one.
q: do you believe it is the truth or a piece of journalistic mischief with a "wider agenda "?

I think you are right about the "spin" but I think its self inflicted - but it does widen the window for abduction which is one of the reasons why I think its occurred.

I think it also proves that the T9 are involved and TM is a cover up machine. Their PR machine may think its time to use any of the various options they have, or maybe they are paid so it brings in income. They gain some publicity, further encourage their supporters into ever more furious support or ultimately suggest more "suspects". But I doubt we will we see a proper investigation into what really happened. Is it possibly that if they are exposed - they will expose all of those surrounding this case.

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by russiandoll on 21.05.13 10:08

I understand what you are saying Angelique, it certainly feeds "the intruders casing the joint the previous evening and returnng to take Maddie" scenario

It simultaneously blows the McCann and tapas accounts out of the water though.....no rational person can believe all of the following :

couple heard crying as they were closer than parents [ plausible due to closed doors, windows, distance from tapas bar]
so distressed and worried they entered 5a rather than quickly alert reception , one person doing this while other ran to tapas to check if parents were there
managed, as 2 unkowns, to calm rather than further distress the child, to the extent that she was sound asleep in time for next check
everything looked as it did at time of last check, couple gone with not a sign that they had been there
Maddie next morning did not mention this visit to her parents.

However you look at this, the McCanns and friends have lied during an investigation, that is what you have to read from the Express article if you believe it is fact.
If not fact, why fabricated? Taken at other than face value, it does not help the McCanns one bit.
Rachel did not hear any crying. She was close by.

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by Angelique on 21.05.13 10:21

@russiandoll wrote:I understand what you are saying Angelique, it certainly feeds "the intruders casing the joint the previous evening and returnng to take Maddie" scenario

It simultaneously blows the McCann and tapas accounts out of the water though.....no rational person can believe all of the following :

couple heard crying as they were closer than parents [ plausible due to closed doors, windows, distance from tapas bar]
so distressed and worried they entered 5a rather than quickly alert reception , one person doing this while other ran to tapas to check if parents were there
managed, as 2 unkowns, to calm rather than further distress the child, to the extent that she was sound asleep in time for next check
everything looked as it did at time of last check, couple gone with not a sign that they had been there
Maddie next morning did not mention this visit to her parents.

However you look at this, the McCanns and friends have lied during an investigation, that is what you have to read from the Express article if you believe it is fact.
If not fact, why fabricated? Taken at other than face value, it does not help the McCanns one bit.
Rachel did not hear any crying. She was close by.

Yes agreed - it makes a mess of all their supposed statements - maybe they have reached the point where the only concern is to keep the machine pushing forward. A sort of "throw anything on the fire - just keep it going" attitude. But indeed, it does expose the soft fleshy behind of their defence via the Express - who wait.

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by plebgate on 21.05.13 10:25

@russiandoll wrote:if in wrong place, please move :

ANORAK : THE COUPLE WHO HEARD A CHILD CRYING AT NIGHT AND WENT TO HELP.

In “WHO SOOTHED WEEPING MADDIE?" the Daily Express leads
with a Madeleine McCann “exclusive”. It adds: “Police seek couple who
entered McCann apartment when Madeleine was crying.”

This becomes:

Mystery couple seen going into McCanns’ flat on night before sobbing Madeleine disappeared

The
night before? A couple of strangers walked into the McCanns’ apartment
where a child was crying the night before that child vanished? How does
the Express know it was Madeleine who was crying? Three children were in
the McCanns’ apartment.

SCOTLAND YARD detectives are trying to
find a middle-aged couple said to have entered Madeleine McCann’s
holiday apartment to comfort her because she was crying, we can reveal
today.

This looks like new news. James Murray adds:

It is
believed they entered the bedroom on May 2, 2007, the evening before
Madeleine disappeared from the Ocean Club at Praia da Luz on Portugal’s
Algarve.

Believed? By whom? Who did they tell?

The tip-off was given by two key witnesses who were reinterviewed as part of the Yard’s two-year, £4.5million investigation.

It
is already known that Pamela Fenn, who lived directly above apartment
5a, heard a child, believed to be Madeleine, crying for about an hour on
the evening of May 2.

She was so concerned she rang a friend in the village to ask what to do and considered ringing Portugal’s Policia Judiciaria.

At the time, Madeleine’s mother Kate and father Gerry were dining with friends at a tapas bar some 50 yards from the apartment.

Had she only have rang the police things may well have been different for Madeleine.

An unnamed source tells the Express that a couple also heard the crying and went to help.

Pamela Fenn has since died. In 2007, The Daily Mail reported:

Pamela
Fenn, 81, lives above the apartment where Madeleine disappeared and is
reported to have told police she heard Madeleine screaming below. But
yesterday she broke her silence to say it was “absolute rubbish” she had
made any such claims to police. Mrs Fenn said: “I didn’t even know that
family was in there.”

So. What Murray says is “already known” is “rubbish”.


Murray
then does have some news. He says a couple, presumably the aforesaid
“key witnesses” who had been staying in the same block as the McCanns,
gave police a statement back in February. British police had previously
spoken with them. Murray reproduces extracts from that statement. He
also says the couple were never formally interviewed by Portuguese
detectives. The statement tells us:

“I stood on the balcony at about 9.15 with a whisky.

“I
saw people eating at the tapas bar and children in the play area. We
went to bed at 10pm-ish. We were woken up by our bell ringing at
11.30pm. It was a friend of the McCanns, saying that a little girl had
been abducted. The friend asked if we had a computer so they could get
the media involved in the search.

“Two police were on the corner
of our block, one lady said that off-duty police had come and were
searching. We did see single men on mobiles while we were out who could
have been police…

“We walked back up towards our apartment, a
group had gathered on the corner. The McCanns were in bits, he was
crying on the shoulder of a friend. She was screaming: ‘The f*****g
bastards have taken her’. Finally, at around 4am, we said: ‘Is it OK if
we go to bed?’ We directed this comment towards a man in a white shirt
and jeans, who seemed to be authoritative.”

The couple had not seen anything suspicious:

“We
have one of the best views of the whole block. We are sure of the
timings. If we had seen anyone we would have remembered. We will
continue to answer the Yard’s questions. We have given our fingerprints
and DNA. We were happy to assist. They should be left to get on with
their inquiries.”

Such are the facts…


I know my head is done in with all of this, but I thought there is a statement on file from Mrs. Fenn?

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by Angelique on 21.05.13 10:33

I know exactly how you feel - here

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by russiandoll on 21.05.13 10:40

I think it very interesting that McCanns spokesman has not said anything about the Express piece....after saying earlier that the couple were very pleased with the review so far. Why has he not come out and said it is rubbish?What could he possibly say about a couple of strangers entering 5a, so concerned that they did not even bother going to report it at nearby reception, but went right in after being so upset by the prolonged crying? He can't say it is garbage because Kate has promoted the someone in there the previous evening scenario, on the face of it, it helps them

Whatever he says will not add up to damage limitation. As much as it promotes easy to enter and exit, without being seen [next step logically...easy to abduct] it says so much more about the goings-on during that holiday and what has been withheld by the people closest to the victim. The amount of checking and how far away they were.

It also tells us that Maddie cried 2 nights running, but magically, not on 3rd. How strange she even went to sleep having been scared by those strangers. Yet she and her twins slept very soundly, Maddie so soundly that she did not wake up even as she was lifted from her bed and carried away.

They have, without a doubt, lied. Now WHY under the circumstances would they do that?

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contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by Kepharel on 21.05.13 11:13

If I and my wife were strolling by an apartment from which we could here crying/sobbing my initial reaction would be that the parents were at home and having a hard time with their kids. It would have to be a considerable time interval before, walking past again and still hearing the crying/sobbing, that I might decide to maybe just have a quick look into the apartment, and seeing it in darkness decide that something was amiss. Whether I would try the doors and go in, knock on the door AND THEN pop down to reception and alert the staff, or alert the few diners in the tapas I could not say; Probably the last option, with the first being the least likely. So what would you do?

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by Guest on 21.05.13 11:23

[quote="Angelique"]I know exactly how you feel - here

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm[/quote]

Snipped from file

She said that after the mothers shouts, she had seen many people in the streets looking for the girl. She also refers to an episode when Gerry was speaking to a policeman and he refused to recognised the police force, saying that more agents of authority were needed to carry out the search

Why would GM not recognise the police force? What did he mean by more agents of authority?

I too I'm suprised the spoksman hasn't given a press release on the Express piece, no interviews or TV appearences, seems strange when in the early days he was always there denying or spinning what had appeared in print.

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by plebgate on 21.05.13 11:28

Yes, early doors could not get spokesperson off the screen, but other than being pleased with SY review, nothing.

Why no denial that according to Express headlines Maddie was sobbing, that does not look good for them imo and I would certainly not be happy with headlines like that if I were them.

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by littlepixie on 21.05.13 12:46

You wouldn't go into someones apartment if you heard a child crying - you simply wouldn't. Unless the child was visible/ stood in the window and maybe injured.

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by Guest on 21.05.13 12:49

The only situation I can think of where someone brave enough would go in is if the place was on fire - having called the emergency services before doing so.

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THE 'SOOTHING' COUPLE quiz

Post by worriedmum on 21.05.13 13:11

How can anyone 'know' that this couple were 'soothing' a crying Madeleine?

a)Because the person/s that 'know' this were present in the apartment?
b)Because the couple told someone that's what they were doing?
c)Because the crying stopped after the couple entered the apartment?
d)Because the only child in the apartment was Madeleine?

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by PeterMac on 21.05.13 13:51

e) Because they were told to say so ?

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by jozi on 21.05.13 14:11

@PeterMac wrote:e) Because they were told to say so ?

Exactly.....who is the person leaking this BS and how do they know of this ........all ties in nicely with the nice childless couple who abducted Maddie and are treating her like a princess though !!!

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by ShuBob on 21.05.13 14:21

@Kepharel wrote:If I and my wife were strolling by an apartment from which we could here crying/sobbing my initial reaction would be that the parents were at home and having a hard time with their kids. It would have to be a considerable time interval before, walking past again and still hearing the crying/sobbing, that I might decide to maybe just have a quick look into the apartment, and seeing it in darkness decide that something was amiss. Whether I would try the doors and go in, knock on the door AND THEN pop down to reception and alert the staff, or alert the few diners in the tapas I could not say; Probably the last option, with the first being the least likely. So what would you do?

I suspect entering a stranger's apartment in such circumstances would be the absolute last resort. For all you know, there could have been an intruder with a weapon in the premises or even someone who was a legal occupant of the property may have gone berserk. It happens.

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by tiny on 21.05.13 14:48

@PeterMac wrote:e) Because they were told to say so ?
You could be right here as is reinforces the neglect issue, and that is what the mccanns want us all to believe.shame it aint gonna happen

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by Nina on 21.05.13 15:43

If I was trying to quieten a very upset child then I would not call it soothe. The word for me is related to pain, not being upset.

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Re: Madeleine Suspects 'Not Fully Investigated'

Post by russiandoll on 21.05.13 15:54

It is an ambiguous word all right. Maybe the child was crying because she was in pain.

However, I believe that this story comes straight from Team McCann and is a tactic with an agenda, as always.

reinforce neglect, even if it makes you look like f*****g bastards.
anything to promote ABDUCTION.

because they would rather have people think badly of them for that than for what really happened.

back to the good old days of 2007.

I even heard a discussion about the case on tv, demanding to know why were the cops only now visiting bars and restaurants 6 years later, when they should have done this at the time [ believing tabloid nonsense that they didn't, rather than research the police files for facts]
Portugal needs to forget abot saving face, forget national pride and arrogance and invite SY over to help them do their job properly!

Great innit ?!

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unrealistic.
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