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19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Guest on 23.05.13 14:31

@littlepixie wrote:When you become a Grandparent your loyalties change overnight. You would still "die for your kids" if they were attacked, BUT you would also "wring your kids necks" (so to speak), if THEY hurt your Grandchild. The goalposts move dramatically.
Any normal parent would NOT cover up for their children if the death of their Grandchild had occurred.
***

I've just checked with my local expert - my 94-year-old Maman is back with me in France - who told me in no uncertain words that she would slap me & never want to see me anymore. And that, if she would have suspicions on the basis of my inconsistent sayings, she would report such suspicions to the police [ and cry her eyes out].

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Guest on 23.05.13 15:00

candyfloss wrote:The reports in the early days were interesting, JT saw abductor on her way to the tapas, and also on her way back from doing a check....




A friend
of Madeleine's parents saw girl being carried away Timesonline




David Brown in Praia da
Luz

May 27, 2007

A family friend of
Gerry and Kate McCann has told police she saw a blonde-haired girl being
carried away from an Algarve holiday apartment [b]wrapped in a
blanket at the time Madeleine is believed to have been snatched from
her room.


The key witness, who
is wracked with guilt, was on her way to dinner with Gerry and
Kate McCann when she saw the man close to the open window of the bedroom where
four-year-old Madeleine had been sleeping. The girl he was carrying was wearing
pink pyjamas, the same as Madeleine's


Article removed, wonder why?????

I saw man carrying Maddie Daily Mirror (online article now removed)

McCann friend's guilt at 'not noticing' abduction

Vanessa Allen In Praia Da Luz
28/05/2007
Yesterday it was claimed child porn was found on the computer of the only
suspect in the case, Briton Robert Murat, 33. The witness was on her way to join
Gerry and Kate McCann for dinner near their apartment in Praia da Luz at about
9.30pm on
May 3 when she saw the suspect.


[url=http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html[/quote[/url]]

Thanks candyfloss, there's a lot to digest there.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Khalgregar on 23.05.13 15:27

Cherry Blossom wrote:
candyfloss wrote:The reports in the early days were interesting, JT saw abductor on her way to the tapas, and also on her way back from doing a check....




A friend
of Madeleine's parents saw girl being carried away Timesonline




David Brown in Praia da
Luz

May 27, 2007

A family friend of
Gerry and Kate McCann has told police she saw a blonde-haired girl being
carried away from an Algarve holiday apartment [b]wrapped in a
blanket at the time Madeleine is believed to have been snatched from
her room.


The key witness, who
is wracked with guilt, was on her way to dinner with Gerry and
Kate McCann when she saw the man close to the open window of the bedroom where
four-year-old Madeleine had been sleeping. The girl he was carrying was wearing
pink pyjamas, the same as Madeleine's


Article removed, wonder why?????

I saw man carrying Maddie Daily Mirror (online article now removed)

McCann friend's guilt at 'not noticing' abduction

Vanessa Allen In Praia Da Luz
28/05/2007
Yesterday it was claimed child porn was found on the computer of the only
suspect in the case, Briton Robert Murat, 33. The witness was on her way to join
Gerry and Kate McCann for dinner near their apartment in Praia da Luz at about
9.30pm on
May 3 when she saw the suspect.


[url=http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html[/quote[/url]]

Thanks candyfloss, there's a lot to digest there.

You have to remember that journalists regularly misinterpret what they've been told by their sources, and also fill in the blanks with errors. Also, once an error is published by one outlet, the same error gets reprinted by other news sources.

I wouldn't think for a second that what appears in a newspaper article is a 100% accurate representation of what their sources have told them.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by ShuBob on 23.05.13 15:43

It's a given fact that the McCanns lied to journalists in those early days at least in their eagerness to put out their own narrative. Kate herself acknowledges this in her book.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Khalgregar on 23.05.13 15:54

@ShuBob wrote:It's a given fact that the McCanns lied to journalists in those early days at least in their eagerness to put out their own narrative. Kate herself acknowledges this in her book.

So? It's a stretch to go from that, to assuming that these particular reports are lies put out by the McCanns.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by ShuBob on 23.05.13 19:34

@Khalgregar wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:It's a given fact that the McCanns lied to journalists in those early days at least in their eagerness to put out their own narrative. Kate herself acknowledges this in her book.

So? It's a stretch to go from that, to assuming that these particular reports are lies put out by the McCanns.

Your opinion.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Casey5 on 23.05.13 19:52

Châtelaine wrote:
@littlepixie wrote:When you become a Grandparent your loyalties change overnight. You would still "die for your kids" if they were attacked, BUT you would also "wring your kids necks" (so to speak), if THEY hurt your Grandchild. The goalposts move dramatically.
Any normal parent would NOT cover up for their children if the death of their Grandchild had occurred.
***

I've just checked with my local expert - my 94-year-old Maman is back with me in France - who told me in no uncertain words that she would slap me & never want to see me anymore. And that, if she would have suspicions on the basis of my inconsistent sayings, she would report such suspicions to the police [ and cry her eyes out].

Châtelaine, I would totally agree with your Maman, I think, if you are close to your grandchildren, then you become even more protective of them than you were with your own kids - probably because you are older and more aware of the dangers.
It must be an awful dilemma but adult children can fight their own battles and I would have to side with the most vulnerable i.e the young grandchildren.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by suziuk on 23.05.13 20:02

Hope no one minds me popping in with a question,,I don't post much but read it all,

Ive believed they were guilty from the start

The question - Not sure if this has already been mentioned,,was just watching J Tanner interview, when asked to describe the man she saw,,she said he wore quite a lot of clothing which she found odd,,as Brit tourist's usually wear Cropped pants,,,How would she know it was a british tourist?

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Khalgregar on 23.05.13 20:03

@ShuBob wrote:
@Khalgregar wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:It's a given fact that the McCanns lied to journalists in those early days at least in their eagerness to put out their own narrative. Kate herself acknowledges this in her book.

So? It's a stretch to go from that, to assuming that these particular reports are lies put out by the McCanns.

Your opinion.

No, it's not an opinion. You have stated a fact, but it does not make it a fact that these reports were fabricated by the McCanns. So, in the absence of evidence, we don't know if the McCanns made this story up, or whether the newspapers put 2 and 2 together and got 5.

Look at in logical terms. Here are three statements, A, B and C.

A - The McCanns have put out stories for the newspaper that are false (as admitted by Kate in her book)
B - Newspapers regularly publish stories which have details that are deliberately or accidentally false
C - The reports regarding Jane Tanner seeing the abductor when going to the Tapas for a meal are false

A does not imply C, as B does not imply C. Because it could be either. Or another unknown option.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Guest on 23.05.13 20:08

@Casey5 wrote:
quote Châtelaine:
I've just checked with my local expert - my 94-year-old Maman is back with me in France - who told me in no uncertain words that she would slap me & never want to see me anymore. And that, if she would have suspicions on the basis of my inconsistent sayings, she would report such suspicions to the police [ and cry her eyes out].unquote Châtelaine

Châtelaine, I would totally agree with your Maman, I think, if you are close to your grandchildren, then you become even more protective of them than you were with your own kids - probably because you are older and more aware of the dangers.
It must be an awful dilemma but adult children can fight their own battles and I would have to side with the most vulnerable i.e the young grandchildren.
***
Casey, I may not have clear enough. It is NOT just that Maman would be more protective of her grandchildren [she even has greatgrandchildren ] than her own children, but that she would never ever accept that her OWN children would be involved in criminal acts. She would weep and cryand suffer, but denounce them, to have justice done ...

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Khalgregar on 23.05.13 20:11

Châtelaine wrote:
@Casey5 wrote:
I've just checked with my local expert - my 94-year-old Maman is back with me in France - who told me in no uncertain words that she would slap me & never want to see me anymore. And that, if she would have suspicions on the basis of my inconsistent sayings, she would report such suspicions to the police [ and cry her eyes out].

Châtelaine, I would totally agree with your Maman, I think, if you are close to your grandchildren, then you become even more protective of them than you were with your own kids - probably because you are older and more aware of the dangers.
It must be an awful dilemma but adult children can fight their own battles and I would have to side with the most vulnerable i.e the young grandchildren.
***
Casey, I may not have clear enough. It is NOT just that Maman would be more protective of her grandchildren [she even has greatgrandchildren ] than her own children, but that she would never ever accept that her OWN children would be involved in criminal acts. She would weep and cryand suffer, but denounce them, to have justice done ...

This just underlines how different people are, but that's just fine isn't it, we all accept that don't we? big grin

Just perhaps, the grandparents were acting in their surviving grandchildren's interests. Perhaps they felt that it would destroy their lives if their parents were taken away from them, and found to be responsible for their sister's death (if that were the case!).

Issues of morality are vary rarely something that can be discussed in absolutes.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Spaniel on 23.05.13 20:11

I assume the cleaners, if true, are being sought in case they cleaned 5A.
As for soothing? A dummy soothes, we comfort a crying child.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by ShuBob on 23.05.13 20:12

@Khalgregar wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:
@Khalgregar wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:It's a given fact that the McCanns lied to journalists in those early days at least in their eagerness to put out their own narrative. Kate herself acknowledges this in her book.

So? It's a stretch to go from that, to assuming that these particular reports are lies put out by the McCanns.

Your opinion.

No, it's not an opinion. You have stated a fact, but it does not make it a fact that these reports were fabricated by the McCanns. So, in the absence of evidence, we don't know if the McCanns made this story up, or whether the newspapers put 2 and 2 together and got 5.

Look at in logical terms. Here are three statements, A, B and C.

A - The McCanns have put out stories for the newspaper that are false (as admitted by Kate in her book)
B - Newspapers regularly publish stories which have details that are deliberately or accidentally false
C - The reports regarding Jane Tanner seeing the abductor when going to the Tapas for a meal are false

A does not imply C, as B does not imply C. Because it could be either. Or another unknown option.

Like I wrote before, your opinion. I never said it was a fact they put out those particular stories but I'm inclined to believe they did.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Khalgregar on 23.05.13 20:20

@ShuBob wrote:
@Khalgregar wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:
@Khalgregar wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:It's a given fact that the McCanns lied to journalists in those early days at least in their eagerness to put out their own narrative. Kate herself acknowledges this in her book.

So? It's a stretch to go from that, to assuming that these particular reports are lies put out by the McCanns.

Your opinion.

No, it's not an opinion. You have stated a fact, but it does not make it a fact that these reports were fabricated by the McCanns. So, in the absence of evidence, we don't know if the McCanns made this story up, or whether the newspapers put 2 and 2 together and got 5.

Look at in logical terms. Here are three statements, A, B and C.

A - The McCanns have put out stories for the newspaper that are false (as admitted by Kate in her book)
B - Newspapers regularly publish stories which have details that are deliberately or accidentally false
C - The reports regarding Jane Tanner seeing the abductor when going to the Tapas for a meal are false

A does not imply C, as B does not imply C. Because it could be either. Or another unknown option.

Like I wrote before, your opinion. I never said it was a fact they put out those particular stories but I'm inclined to believe they did.

We could reply to every post in every one of these threads with 'your opinion', it doesn't really advance the discussion at all.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Guest on 23.05.13 20:20

@Khalgregar wrote:
Châtelaine wrote: [...] I may not have clear enough. It is NOT just that Maman would be more protective of her grandchildren [she even has greatgrandchildren ] than her own children, but that she would never ever accept that her OWN children would be involved in criminal acts. She would weep and cryand suffer, but denounce them, to have justice done ...

This just underlines how different people are, but that's just fine isn't it, we all accept that don't we?

Just perhaps, the grandparents were acting in their surviving grandchildren's interests. Perhaps they felt that it would destroy their lives if their parents were taken away from them, and found to be responsible for their sister's death (if that were the case!).

Issues of morality are vary rarely something that can be discussed in absolutes.
***
If I may: IF they were found responsible for their sister's death, that would be ONE reason MORE to denounce them and get the twins into safety, don't you think?

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Khalgregar on 23.05.13 20:25

Châtelaine wrote:If I may: IF they were found responsible for their sister's death, that would be ONE reason MORE to denounce them and get the twins into safety, don't you think?

We don't know the facts. We don't know what K and G told their relatives that night. I'm not going to make a moral judgment against someone without having the facts.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Praiaaa on 23.05.13 20:28

Precisely - if one grand-child has been harmed, and others are at risk, surely you need to protect those surviving grand-children?

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by ShuBob on 23.05.13 20:33

@Khalgregar wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:If I may: IF they were found responsible for their sister's death, that would be ONE reason MORE to denounce them and get the twins into safety, don't you think?

We don't know the facts. We don't know what K and G told their relatives that night. I'm not going to make a moral judgment against someone without having the facts.

We know some of what they told them- at least, what the relatives said they were told- and they were mainly lies.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Khalgregar on 23.05.13 20:35

Okay, I get what you're all saying. The McCann parents must be evil then, thoroughly bad people. Is that what you're all trying to say?

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Guest on 23.05.13 20:37

Yes indeed Shubob - jemmied shutters for starters!

I would like to know why nobody in the extended family raised a query about the coloboma being given such massive coverage when in fact it was barely noticeable.

In my opinion, the whole lot need to be rounded up for questioning.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Guest on 23.05.13 20:40

@Khalgregar wrote:Okay, I get what you're all saying. The McCann parents must be evil then, thoroughly bad people. Is that what you're all trying to say?
***
What "we" are saying is that a lot doesn't count up, that that is/must be obvious to family and friends too and that might/would be a reason to "worry" ...

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Khalgregar on 23.05.13 20:49

Châtelaine wrote:
@Khalgregar wrote:Okay, I get what you're all saying. The McCann parents must be evil then, thoroughly bad people. Is that what you're all trying to say?
***
What "we" are saying is that a lot doesn't count up, that that is/must be obvious to family and friends too and that might/would be a reason to "worry" ...

But the implication is that by not doing something about this "worry" that they are bad people. All I have been saying is that is not necessarily the case. We have no idea what's been going on in the family circle. Perhaps we will find out one day smilie

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hello suziuk

Post by worriedmum on 23.05.13 21:20

suziuk Today at 8:02 pm

quote''Hope no one minds me popping in with a question,,I don't post much but read it all,

Ive believed they were guilty from the start

The
question - Not sure if this has already been mentioned,,was just
watching J Tanner interview, when asked to describe the man she saw,,she
said he wore quite a lot of clothing which she found odd,,as Brit
tourist's usually wear Cropped pants,,,How would she know it was a
british tourist?''
unquote

I don't remember this ,suziuk,can you post the link? That is interesting!

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.

Post by aniandr on 23.05.13 21:55

'He was wearing quite a lot of clothes and that's one thing in hindsight again I think was quite odd because tourists when they're abroad, Brits abroad would always have cropped trousers or shorts or something, and he had a sort of a big heavy jacket and trousers on' (19 November 2007)

I think she just compares a general tourist with not tourists? Like "if he were for example brit..."

But her statements are so lame imo.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by pennylane on 23.05.13 21:57

@aniandr wrote:'He was wearing quite a lot of clothes and that's one thing in hindsight again I think was quite odd because tourists when they're abroad, Brits abroad would always have cropped trousers or shorts or something, and he had a sort of a big heavy jacket and trousers on' (19 November 2007)

I think she just compares a general tourist with not tourists? Like "if he were for example brit..."

But her statements are so lame imo.

Kate also stated on Oprah that Jane said she thought the man at the top of the road looked a bit odd, because he wore a heavy jacket, and the toddler had bare arms and bare feet...

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