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19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Casey5 on 22.05.13 14:49

@margaret wrote:It didn't go into that much detail cherry blossom. I think it was just a general mention of events that night.
I remember words to the effect of: 'Jeremy Wilkins saw Gerry by the shutters'
After seeing Tinys post he may be correct, the word tampering may have been there?? At least from what l read l made that inference.

I remember reading that Jez saw Gerry fiddling with the shutters. This was very early on, may have been the Mirror forum which had a large following from the start until the plug was drastically plugged without warning. Clarence claimed it was his doing.
I always thought that Gerry might well have been trying to dislodge the shutter manually when Jez saw him and that may have been where the "jemmying" of the shutters originated if that had been his plan from the start.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by sweetex on 22.05.13 14:50

mariaccnr ‏@mariaccnr 3s
@mariaccnr middle aged couple the Priest Anglican and wife. Not the Hubbard. But David and Pam.

Not saying its true.... just something I never thought about.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by lj on 22.05.13 15:05

@sweetex wrote:mariaccnr ‏@mariaccnr 3s
@mariaccnr middle aged couple the Priest Anglican and wife. Not the Hubbard. But David and Pam.

Not saying its true.... just something I never thought about.

Is that the same that came the night of the "disapperance" when they could not reach a Catholic priest?

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Guest on 22.05.13 15:10

@Casey5 wrote: [...]
I always thought that Gerry might well have been trying to dislodge the shutter manually when Jez saw him and that may have been where the "jemmying" of the shutters originated if that had been his plan from the start.
***
I still find that very strange and it was one of the first things that alerted me at the time. I mean, it may have been the plan, BUT the shutters were NOT jemmied. Nevertheless, the family claims that Gerry phoned them that night and told them they were. WHY? When it was obvious that they weren't. Unless, he didn't have the chance to let them know that .... Just saying.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by jeanmonroe on 22.05.13 16:00

@PeterMac wrote:The point is - there is NO COMPLEX.
The pool and bar and tennis courts are enclosed by a wall, but all the apartments are in the village, leased to MW by the owners. They are outside any wall.
So walking round the complex is meaningless.
He was walking round the village, as far and wide as he wanted.
So a detailed report of where he went would be very interesting.
Or rather, would have been . . since it is extremely unlikely that after six years his recollection would be of much value.

'Or rather, would have been, ............unlikely his recollection would be of much value.'

I am pretty certain there are lots and lots of forum members that would be willing to help him "refresh" his recollections!

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Lance De Boils on 22.05.13 17:29

@lj wrote:
@sweetex wrote:mariaccnr ‏@mariaccnr 3s
@mariaccnr middle aged couple the Priest Anglican and wife. Not the Hubbard. But David and Pam.

Not saying its true.... just something I never thought about.

Is that the same that came the night of the "disapperance" when they could not reach a Catholic priest?

I wonder who's suggested them as the "mystery couple". I'm going to have to go and look up their details again now.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Lance De Boils on 22.05.13 17:39

Oh yes, I remember now - David Heal and his wife, Pam.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by sweetex on 22.05.13 17:49

@Lance De Boils wrote:Oh yes, I remember now - David Heal and his wife, Pam.

Maria (who the tweet is from) is from Portugal. Probably only guessing too.... I don't know if the couple knew the mccanns before the 3rd of May.


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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Cristobell on 22.05.13 17:57

@russiandoll wrote:Didn't Gerry McCann say around anniversary time, during an interview, that the police would be going public in a couple of weeks ?

And then HC comes out with his statement.
And then there is the story about people in 5a the evening before abduction.




I still cannot get over the desolation on their faces at the candle light vigil. They looked as though they had received devastating news.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Lance De Boils on 22.05.13 18:02

@Cristobell wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:Didn't Gerry McCann say around anniversary time, during an interview, that the police would be going public in a couple of weeks ?

And then HC comes out with his statement.
And then there is the story about people in 5a the evening before abduction.




I still cannot get over the desolation on their faces at the candle light vigil. They looked as though they had received devastating news.

Indeed. That's the only time either of them has looked genuinely upset other than "arguido day."

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Casey5 on 22.05.13 21:32

Châtelaine wrote:
@Casey5 wrote: [...]
I always thought that Gerry might well have been trying to dislodge the shutter manually when Jez saw him and that may have been where the "jemmying" of the shutters originated if that had been his plan from the start.
***
I still find that very strange and it was one of the first things that alerted me at the time. I mean, it may have been the plan, BUT the shutters were NOT jemmied. Nevertheless, the family claims that Gerry phoned them that night and told them they were. WHY? When it was obvious that they weren't. Unless, he didn't have the chance to let them know that .... Just saying.

It doesn't make sense unless Gerry and Kate had primed the relatives earlier before Gerry had fiddled with the shutters and then forgotten ( or been unable to change his story without it looking odd) to tell them that they had left the patio doors open for ease of access and the shutters hadn't been touched by the abductor.
But then very little of the sorry saga does make sense imo. I can't imagine my husband lying to save me if my actions had caused the death of one of our kids and I certainly wouldn't save his hide if he had done it. And no, in similar circumstances I wouldn't give a toss about jobs, status, money and would feel I was such a crap parent that other people would be better able to bring up my other kids so I would have confessed straight away. I couldn't live with the guilt.
And then there's the McCanns. !!!

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Guest on 22.05.13 22:32

[quote="Casey5"] [...] It doesn't make sense unless Gerry and Kate had primed the relatives earlier before Gerry had fiddled with the shutters [...]/quote]
***

Just saying ...
but: yes, exactly ...

ETA had tried to fiddle ...
ETA2 so what about family possibly being in the know ...?

Tin hat on and gone to the silken sheets. Good night, sleep tight

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Nina on 22.05.13 23:13

[quote="Châtelaine"]
@Casey5 wrote: [...] It doesn't make sense unless Gerry and Kate had primed the relatives earlier before Gerry had fiddled with the shutters [...]/quote]
***

Just saying ...
but: yes, exactly ...

ETA had tried to fiddle ...
ETA2 so what about family possibly being in the know ...?

Tin hat on and gone to the silken sheets. Good night, sleep tight

Good night and sleep tight yourself.
Maybe the family in their shock just went along with everything that Gerry and Kate McCann said. After all it was early days and that is all they had to go on. Whether they still believe it now is another matter. The parents of Kate, and the Mother of Gerry must be very concerned at the moment, and it is them, along with the innocent in all this twins, who I feel very sorry for.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by ShuBob on 22.05.13 23:20

I don't feel any sympathy towards family members who were clearly lied to and who have sat back for the best part of six years and watched the lives of innocent people wrecked by the actions of the couple. They could have stopped it long ago by going to the police.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Khalgregar on 23.05.13 0:05

@ShuBob wrote:I don't feel any sympathy towards family members who were clearly lied to and who have sat back for the best part of six years and watched the lives of innocent people wrecked by the actions of the couple. They could have stopped it long ago by going to the police.

And in going to the police they would wreck the lives of their loved ones, so I can understand why they haven't. Even if their loved ones deserve that their lives are wrecked there are others who don't deserve it, especially Sean and Amelie.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending them. I'm saying that I understand their motives, and like Nina, I sympathise with them.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by littlepixie on 23.05.13 0:32

When you become a Grandparent your loyalties change overnight. You would still "die for your kids" if they were attacked, BUT you would also "wring your kids necks" (so to speak), if THEY hurt your Grandchild. The goalposts move dramatically.
Any normal parent would NOT cover up for their children if the death of their Grandchild had occurred.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Khalgregar on 23.05.13 1:17

@littlepixie wrote:When you become a Grandparent your loyalties change overnight. You would still "die for your kids" if they were attacked, BUT you would also "wring your kids necks" (so to speak), if THEY hurt your Grandchild. The goalposts move dramatically.
Any normal parent would NOT cover up for their children if the death of their Grandchild had occurred.

Well, then I'm not normal according to you. I'm glad you're here to let us know what is normal and what isn't.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Guest on 23.05.13 5:27

[quote="Nina"]
Châtelaine wrote:
@Casey5 wrote: [...] It doesn't make sense unless Gerry and Kate had primed the relatives earlier before Gerry had fiddled with the shutters [...]/quote]
***

Just saying ...
but: yes, exactly ...

ETA had tried to fiddle ...
ETA2 so what about family possibly being in the know ...?

Tin hat on and gone to the silken sheets. Good night, sleep tight

Good night and sleep tight yourself.
Maybe the family in their shock just went along with everything that Gerry and Kate McCann said. After all it was early days and that is all they had to go on. Whether they still believe it now is another matter. The parents of Kate, and the Mother of Gerry must be very concerned at the moment, and it is them, along with the innocent in all this twins, who I feel very sorry for.
Good post nina
Seconded
parapono

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by jowie on 23.05.13 7:29

I am not sure what I would do in that situation - it's a difficult one. You have to be in it to decide what you will do. However, I started to read through some of the statements and stuff last night and I do find it quite strange that Kate's friend, Pat Perkins I think, said she was at Kate's parents' house at 11.30pm on the evening of Thursday 3rd at the very time when they received the phone call from Kate, and had nothing to add. Now I find that quite strange. Put myself in that situation - would I be at the home of the elderly parents of my friend at that time of night mid-week ? No, in fact, I never ever visited any of my friends' parents homes unless I was with my friends. This makes me feel that something did, in fact, happen to Madeleine earlier in the week and it was arranged for Pat Perkins ( who just happened to have a friend in Portugal ) to be there when the grandparents received the call.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Lance De Boils on 23.05.13 8:13

I'm not sure that Pat was Kate's friend as such. She's just been described as a "friend of the family". She appears closer in age to Kate's parents than to Kate. I would assume she was originally Susan Healy's friend. Though I could be wrong, of course.

However, I do think it was an amazingly convenient coincidence that Pat was at their house at the precise time the Healys got the phone call.

[ps - Personally, I wouldn't describe Kate's parents as "elderly". But that's just me!]

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Guest on 23.05.13 9:36

@margaret wrote:It didn't go into that much detail cherry blossom. I think it was just a general mention of events that night.

I remember words to the effect of: 'Jeremy Wilkins saw Gerry by the shutters'

After seeing Tinys post he may be correct, the word tampering may have been there?? At least from what l read l made that inference.

This is an iterview that Bridget ODonnell gave to the Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

LEICESTERSHIRE CONSTABULARY

OFFICER'S REPORT


To: Receiver
From: DC 1756 Mike Marshall
Incident: Op Task
No. of pages: 3
Date: 05/11/07

Jeremy WILKINS and Bridget O'DONNELL

At 1230hrs both Jeremy and Bridget went to pick up their children from the crèche. They did not have any interaction with the group again that afternoon. They decided to spend the evening in the apartment. Their son was unable to sleep so about 2015hrs, Jeremy took him, in the pushchair for a walk. He walked around the main area of the resort and eventually ended up in the Tapas bar where he used the toilet facility. He was unable to state what time this was. His son was still awake so he walked in the area of the ocean club gardens and walked along the alleyways in that general area. He eventually made his way along Rua Dr Francisco toward the direction of Rua Dr Agostinho. At this time he was walking on the right side of the road passing the Tapas bar area to his left. He noticed the bad street lighting and although it was not completely dark there was enough light to see clearly. As he approached the corner of the McCanns apartment, he saw Gerry appear from the area of the gate. He crossed the road and engaged in general conversation with Gerry. At this time they were stood with Gerry’s back to the building near to the gate and Jeremy facing him. Rua Dr Agostino was about 10 – 15 meters to his right and the pathway leading to the front of the apartment blocks about 5 meters to his left.

He was adamant that he did not see any one else in the area. When spoken to in reference to Jane Tanner walking by, he again stated that he saw no one. He also stated that he did not see or hear anyone to his right. He was aware of the recent picture in the papers re the person with a child wrapped in a blanket and in a males arms alledgedly walking across the junction to his right but again stated that he did not see any one.

The conversation with Gerry lasted for about three minutes during which Gerry was chatty and in his normal self. Jeremy then made his way back to his apartment.

At the bottom of this report is;

They had no further contact with the family apart from seeing them in passing whilst at the resort.

Several weeks later, Jeremy received calls from Gerry in relation to gaining permission from him to use his name in a portfolio of evidence being compiled by an organisation employed by the McCanns. They were very persistent and made several attempts to contact him both at work and at home. They had no objections to being included but were concerned as to the method being used. (my bold)

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id327.html

What!

From Jeremy Wilkins statement:

Q.
Relative to whether I know Jane Tanner;

Jeremy Wilkins:
'Now I know her name, description of the clothes and photos which I have seen in the press. At that time I knew of her as a member of the group but did not know her name. I do not remember having seen her when I spoke with Gerry, but I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group's apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple.

It's the first time I've read some of the above extracts, I find them more than intriguing. Perhaps some of the more experiance members can offer their thoughts.

I've never believed Jane Tanners explanation of events, imo she is being more than economical with the truth!

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by sweetex on 23.05.13 10:13

Cherry Blossom wrote:
@margaret wrote:It didn't go into that much detail cherry blossom. I think it was just a general mention of events that night.

I remember words to the effect of: 'Jeremy Wilkins saw Gerry by the shutters'

After seeing Tinys post he may be correct, the word tampering may have been there?? At least from what l read l made that inference.

This is an iterview that Bridget ODonnell gave to the Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

LEICESTERSHIRE CONSTABULARY

OFFICER'S REPORT


To: Receiver
From: DC 1756 Mike Marshall
Incident: Op Task
No. of pages: 3
Date: 05/11/07

Jeremy WILKINS and Bridget O'DONNELL

At 1230hrs both Jeremy and Bridget went to pick up their children from the crèche. They did not have any interaction with the group again that afternoon. They decided to spend the evening in the apartment. Their son was unable to sleep so about 2015hrs, Jeremy took him, in the pushchair for a walk. He walked around the main area of the resort and eventually ended up in the Tapas bar where he used the toilet facility. He was unable to state what time this was. His son was still awake so he walked in the area of the ocean club gardens and walked along the alleyways in that general area. He eventually made his way along Rua Dr Francisco toward the direction of Rua Dr Agostinho. At this time he was walking on the right side of the road passing the Tapas bar area to his left. He noticed the bad street lighting and although it was not completely dark there was enough light to see clearly. As he approached the corner of the McCanns apartment, he saw Gerry appear from the area of the gate. He crossed the road and engaged in general conversation with Gerry. At this time they were stood with Gerry’s back to the building near to the gate and Jeremy facing him. Rua Dr Agostino was about 10 – 15 meters to his right and the pathway leading to the front of the apartment blocks about 5 meters to his left.

He was adamant that he did not see any one else in the area. When spoken to in reference to Jane Tanner walking by, he again stated that he saw no one. He also stated that he did not see or hear anyone to his right. He was aware of the recent picture in the papers re the person with a child wrapped in a blanket and in a males arms alledgedly walking across the junction to his right but again stated that he did not see any one.

The conversation with Gerry lasted for about three minutes during which Gerry was chatty and in his normal self. Jeremy then made his way back to his apartment.

At the bottom of this report is;

They had no further contact with the family apart from seeing them in passing whilst at the resort.

Several weeks later, Jeremy received calls from Gerry in relation to gaining permission from him to use his name in a portfolio of evidence being compiled by an organisation employed by the McCanns. They were very persistent and made several attempts to contact him both at work and at home. They had no objections to being included but were concerned as to the method being used. (my bold)

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id327.html

What!

From Jeremy Wilkins statement:

Q.
Relative to whether I know Jane Tanner;

Jeremy Wilkins:
'Now I know her name, description of the clothes and photos which I have seen in the press. At that time I knew of her as a member of the group but did not know her name. I do not remember having seen her when I spoke with Gerry, but I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group's apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple.

It's the first time I've read some of the above extracts, I find them more than intriguing. Perhaps some of the more experiance members can offer their thoughts.

I've never believed Jane Tanners explanation of events, imo she is being more than economical with the truth!

First time I see that too.

This comes from her Regatory Interview with regards to time between 19:30 and 21:00

Erm, so, yeah, I think Russell came back, I think they were supposed to finish at half seven and it was around, I think they had a bit of, but it went on a bit longer, so they were probably back about, he was probably back about quarter to eight. And then put the, and they weren’t, Ella and Evie weren’t in bed at that point, erm, I think they, it was probably about quarter past eight by the time we actually put them, them in, them into bed. And then I went down to the restaurant just after half eight. There’s another, another thing that I was feeling bad about was, erm, we’d got this block booking for half past eight, but because Dave and Fi are so rubbish at getting anywhere, again they’re always late, it was edging back every night, so we were sort of getting to the place of sort of quarter to nine, nine o’clock, when everybody was getting there and, as I said earlier, a lot of people were going earlier, you know, earlier in the evening, so I was very conscious we were sort of keeping all the waiters there late, you know, not later, but later than they probably would, would normally be there, so.

ETA: Her statement from 10 May 2007 looks a bit different:

Around 19h00 each one went to their apartment with the children. She bathed her daughters, she read them a story, she put them to bed. E**e was sick and had difficulty with sleeping stayed with her father, who had arrived in the meantime, (on the previous night the deponent stayed later in the bedroom because her daughter had difficulty in sleeping; on this night it was her husband's turn). She left the apartment and went to the Tapas, for dinner, around 20h30.

When she arrived at the restaurant there were already some adult members of the group, namely the McCanns, without their children. They [the children] were supposedly sleeping.

Around 21h00 her husband arrived at the restaurant, E**e, meanwhile, having fallen asleep.

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Guest on 23.05.13 10:28

The reports in the early days were interesting, JT saw abductor on her way to the tapas, and also on her way back from doing a check....




A friend
of Madeleine's parents saw girl being carried away Timesonline




David Brown in Praia da
Luz

May 27, 2007

A family friend of
Gerry and Kate McCann has told police she saw a blonde-haired girl being
carried away from an Algarve holiday apartment wrapped in a
blanket
at the time Madeleine is believed to have been snatched from
her room.


The key witness, who
is wracked with guilt, was on her way to dinner with Gerry and
Kate McCann when she saw the man close to the open window of the bedroom where
four-year-old Madeleine had been sleeping. The girl he was carrying was wearing
pink pyjamas, the same as Madeleine's


Article removed, wonder why?????

I saw man carrying Maddie Daily Mirror (online article now removed)

McCann friend's guilt at 'not noticing' abduction

Vanessa Allen In Praia Da Luz
28/05/2007
Yesterday it was claimed child porn was found on the computer of the only
suspect in the case, Briton Robert Murat, 33. The witness was on her way to join
Gerry and Kate McCann for dinner near their apartment in Praia da Luz at about
9.30pm on
May 3 when she saw the suspect.


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Praiaaa on 23.05.13 11:22

I know in the scheme of things it may be a small point, but doesn't it say volumes about these people, that even tho' his daughter had been sick, they freely admit that as soon as the toddler fell asleep Tanners' husband went down to the bar! Anyone with kids (and isn't this man also a doctor???) would be worried about the child waking up sick again, choking on vomit etc.... Its a wonder any of them survived this shoddy 'parenting'

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Re: 19 May Mail on Sunday: 'MADDIE: UK CLEANERS ARE SUSPECTS' + WHO SOOTHED A WEEPING MADDIE the Express

Post by Woofer on 23.05.13 11:49

@Praiaaa wrote:I know in the scheme of things it may be a small point, but doesn't it say volumes about these people, that even tho' his daughter had been sick, they freely admit that as soon as the toddler fell asleep Tanners' husband went down to the bar! Anyone with kids (and isn't this man also a doctor???) would be worried about the child waking up sick again, choking on vomit etc.... Its a wonder any of them survived this shoddy 'parenting'

Too right.

I find it hard to believe that doctors actually left their children at all - would ANY doctor actually DO THAT?? I`ve always wondered if the children were all together with an adult in another apartment, except Madeleine who was on her own in 5A for some reason.

Woofer

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