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Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by Guest on 08.05.13 10:26

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:It still seems very odd to me that, prior to the mass coverage since the women were found, there appear to be no archive reports on the Internet relating to them being missing. I found a bucket-load of Amanda Berrys but none of them the missing girl.

I will do my best to keep an open mind for now!
I think there are straightforward explanations for this.

First, by 2002, 2003 and 2004, the internet was still very much in the development phase and nothing like the advanced state it is in today. Back then, many newspapers, no doubt including the 'Cleveland Chronicle' or the 'Ohio Times' or whatever the local papers are called, did not even have an online facility.

Second, Chatelaine noted:

2002: Michele Knight disappeared in August, when she was 21. Authorities never registered her as missing, as they believed she went away of her own free will [after her child had been taken into custody?].

2003: Amanda Berry [17] goes missing

2004: Gina Dejesus [14] goes missing.

Sad though it is, the disappearance of teenagers or older adults is by no means always major news, unless there are compelling reasons for suspecting foul play.

One thing that is coming out from local people and the U.S. news media in this case is references to THE MASKS worn by these three vile brothers. In other words, the way they were able to pass themselves off as normal, everyday, kind, happy cheerful folk, whilst at the same time perpetrating horrific crimes that no-one really suspected.

Ariel Castro had been driving the school bus, for heaven's sake, for 20-odd years!

One neighbour described him as 'always cheerful, happy, smiling'.

We are talking, once again, of Dickens' Jekyll & Hyde here.

To carry off a Jekyll & Hyde performance, to wear such a convincing mask, requires a practised, highly developed act, a performance, so skilful that it becomes 'second nature'.

JUST A FEW EXAMPLES AMONG MANY:

Fred & Rosemary West

Dr Harold Shipman

Josef Fritzl (German bloke who hid women in dungeon)

Captors of Natascha Kapuschka and Jaycee Lee Dugard

Jimmy Saville

Stuart Hall

Almost all paedophiles...

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by Guest on 08.05.13 10:32

@russiandoll wrote:There are horrible details coming out now about police with sniffer dogs digging up parts of the garden, searching for buried babies born to these women.

If there is the slightest possibility despite the evidence, that Maddie has been or is continuing to be held captive by a person or persons with bad intent, [ I do not believe, having read statistics, that she is being card for by a loving family, sadly]....that is more awful than believing that she died in an accident on holiday.

There was an interesting discussion with a psychologist last night advising that people should not rush to judgment about why no escape was attempted previously. He could not emphasise enough the complexity of the relationship between the captors who abducted girls at a very emotionally sensitive age, and their captives : the abductor is both their security and their threat.

It is wonderful to read for a change on the front pages such a tale of survival under what seem more and more to be horrific circumstances. I hope that the young women are given the privacy and counselling they need to heal after such a terrible ordeal. The young child of one of them will need real kid glove treatment I would imagine.

This type of relation has a name: the Stockholm Syndrome.

It applies to any relationship where a victim stays with his or her captor and even sides with him/her against the outside world.

The name derives from a case in Stockholm, Sweden, where the captive employees fo a bank sided with a bunch of bankrobbers they were locked into one of the banks' vaults with. In the 60's I believe it was. And think of Patty Hearst. And think of ...

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The Cleveland Case And Missing Persons Investigations

Post by Olympicana_Reloaded on 08.05.13 10:35

Three women who disappeared almost a decade ago in Cleveland were found Monday night not far from where they had each been taken. They were discovered by a neighbor who heard screaming. Too often, cases like this unsolved indefinitely with no known crime scene, no witnesses, and no leads.

Guests

Rachel Dissell, reporter, The Plain Dealer
Robert Lowery, executive director, National Center for Missing and Exploited Children

http://www.npr.org/2013/05/07/181947269/the-cleveland-case-and-missing-persons-investigations

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by russiandoll on 08.05.13 14:24

S.S. was a rather good song by Muse.

And from the other side of the world a name has come for this:

An inverse of Stockholm syndrome called Lima syndrome has been proposed, in which abductors develop sympathy for their hostages. It was named after an abduction at the Japanese Embassy in Lima, Peru,
in 1996, when members of a militant movement took hostage hundreds of
people attending a party at the official residence of Japan’s
ambassador. Within a few hours, the abductors had set free most of the
hostages, including the most valuable ones, owing to sympathy.

Above is called Lima syndrome

Let us hope that if Maddie is with an abductor somewhere, that the above is to be her fate, because it turns my stomach to think of a child held captive and being abused in any way.

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by pennylane on 08.05.13 14:37

Hopefully those poor young ladies were able to support each other, in spite of all the horrors inflicted upon them. They will certainly have a challenging road ahead, but with patience and love, there is hope.... at last!

I'm certain those evil abductors will be handed several life sentences back to back, and if it turns out they murdered any women or newborn babies, as Cleveland has the death penalty, they will no doubt end up seeing out their days on death row!

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by russiandoll on 08.05.13 16:13

tweet from Prof David Wilson re- Ohio case :

Discovery of 3 Cleveland women confirms a number of criminological
theories - the older the child when abducted, greater chance of survival
[ and if the rabid pros are reading, of course I, like all sane people, want Maddie to be alive, the chances are that she is not, sadly].

I always keep his words in mind re- serious crimes.........who had access to the victim? Who had opportunity?

All roads lead back to the T9.

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~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by PeterMac on 08.05.13 16:58

MJC wrote:
We are talking, once again, of Dickens' Jekyll & Hyde here.
RL Stevenson, not Dickens
Sorry to be pedantic !

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by Guest on 08.05.13 18:25

Did the police fail these three women?

Cleveland rescue: The mystery of 2207 Seymour Avenue




Ohio abductions
Ariel Castro's house at 2207 Seymour
Avenue, Cleveland, Ohio, is yet to give up many of its secrets.

What lies inside the run-down clapboard house where Amanda Berry,
Gina DeJesus and Michelle Knight are said to have spent their
captivity?


The house appears to have been the scene of a double life - as Mr Castro's
home and as a kidnap den where he is alleged to have held three women captive
for almost a decade.

The two-storey building stands right in the middle of a tree-lined street in
Cleveland's West Side neighbourhood - a working class area home to a close-knit
community.

Few details have been confirmed about what it contains, but some facts are
known.

Mr Castro bought the house in 1992 for $12,000 (£7,750), according to the
Cuyahoga County Auditor's office
. In 2012, it was valued at $36,100
(£23,300).

The property currently faces foreclosure over the non-payment of taxes, with
Mr Castro owing some $2,501 (£1,615) in taxes for the period 2010-12.

The property has four bedrooms, a bathroom, a 760sq ft (71sq m) basement, two
porches and an attic. There is also a detached garage.


They [the women] had no ability to leave the home or
interact with anyone other than each other, the child and the
suspect” - End Quote US law enforcement official



The police investigation and any charges levelled at the
brothers are likely to hinge on what happened to the women while they were in
the house.

Ariel Castro's son, Anthony - who says he visited the house just two weeks
ago - told MailOnline that the doors to the basement, the attic and the garage were
always padlocked and family members were not allowed to go there.

Anthony Castro described his father as a violent and controlling man, who
beat him and nearly killed his mother in the early 1990s.

After years of abuse, his mother decided to move out of the house in 1996,
taking him and his three sisters with her, Mr Castro said.

"It's astonishing to even think... that I was so close to that. That I was
physically at the house two weeks ago while that was going on, it's a lot to
grasp," he said.






What did Ariel Castro's neighbours know?


Police are yet to release any pictures from the inside of the property, but
one one law enforcement official has described the conditions there as "abysmal
at best".

"They (the women) had no ability to leave the home or interact with anyone
other than each other, the child and the suspect," the official told
the New York Times
.

Media reports also suggest that the authorities have discovered chains and
tape inside the house allegedly used to restrain the women.

Police say officers were sent to the house twice, in 2000 and 2004.

In March 2000, Ariel Castro reported a fight on the street - but no arrests
were made. In January 2004 police went to the address after Mr Castro, then a
school bus driver, reportedly left a child on a bus. No-one appeared to be in
the house.

An investigation later found no criminal intent by Mr Castro, police told
local news site Cleveland.com.

'Didn't look right'

Views of Mr Castro himself are mixed. To some in the area he appeared to be
"a regular Joe", but some locals claim warning signs were always there.






Elsie Cintron spoke of a "naked lady crawling in the backyard"

Mike Kazimore, a local postman, said he visited Mr Castro's porch virtually
everyday for the last 12 years to deliver mail. "It looked like a normal house,"
he told the BBC.

Niki Greiner, another resident, said the property was usually "quiet",
although "sometimes you would hear music".

"But I would never see the man come out of there or hear any noises. It's
just like he was there but not there," Ms Greiner said.

James King says the house "did not look right" because it had boarded-up
windows. "You could not see through," he says.

Elsie Cintron, another resident, told the BBC she started to have concerns
after her granddaughter told her she had seen a "naked lady crawling in the
backyard of his house".

"That's when I got sick to my stomach. I told my grandchildren to stay away
from there.

"What else got me was a little girl up in the attic window. Where did she
come from? Who's her mother?"

It later turned out that the girl was Ms Berry's daughter, Jocelyn.

Mrs Cintron also says she alerted police at the time - but that authorities
did not seem to be interested.

Other residents claim they have made multiple calls to police regarding suspicious activity at the house.

They include sightings of women crying for help for help, the sound of pounding on the doors and of Mr Castro allegedly taking a small girl for early-morning walks.

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by Guest on 08.05.13 20:39

@PeterMac wrote:
MJC wrote:
We are talking, once again, of Dickens' Jekyll & Hyde here.
RL Stevenson, not Dickens
Sorry to be pedantic !
***
I didn't want to correct, because I didn't want to be pedantic either ...
No offense, MJC.

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by PeterMac on 08.05.13 21:26

That's why I put it in very small writing !
Just whispering.

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by Guest on 08.05.13 22:16

Oh ... I see ... thanks ...

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by aiyoyo on 08.05.13 22:33

Ah...I see too...about Dr. jekyll and Mr Hyde. In this specific case in discussion shouldn't it be Dr jekyll and Ms H

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by Guest on 08.05.13 22:41

Haha ...

if you allow me ...

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by Guest on 08.05.13 22:42

Ariel Castro faces rape and kidnap charges in Ohio case







The owner of the house in Ohio from where three women were rescued a decade after they went missing faces four counts of kidnapping and three counts of rape, say US prosecutors.



Amanda Berry, 27, Gina DeJesus, 23 and Michelle Knight, 32, were found in the Cleveland house on Monday.

Cleveland's police chief has said the women were bound with ropes and chains.

riel Castro, 52, will appear in court on Thursday, but his brothers Pedro, 54, and Onil, 50, are not charged

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22459435

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by Guest on 08.05.13 22:48

I see talk on internet about a 4th woman, missing same time, same place ± ...

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by aiyoyo on 09.05.13 2:28

The 4th woman is probably dead. Yet the abductor nonchalantly continued with his regular job of driving school children, at the same time carried out his evil activities as if normal, and no one suspected him. How bizarre!

I'm appalled the victims were not discovered earlier because the house they were incarcerated in is surrounded by property left right centre at close proximity. Their plight happened right under the nose of the neighbours yet the community including postman etc were completely unaware of it. Either the community is apathetic, or the Police must have let them down badly. When this is over, the police might be left red face, and possibly facing prosecution for failing their duty.

It's rather hard to believe that during incarceration period that the girls (women rather) have not tried to alert neighbours/passerby to their plight considering the guy went to work. To think that the little girl was also incarcerated in the same place, deprived of friends and community, and never been to school, and that he managed to keep the child quiet and away from prying eyes for so long, never having exposed her to public, community and health services is all very mind boggling.


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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by russiandoll on 09.05.13 16:18

Sky :

Castro's brothers Pedro and Onil Castro are to be freed after they
appeared at the same Cleveland Municipal Court hearing on misdemeanour
charges.






Castro's lawyer Kathleen DeMetz said she expects her client to be
placed on suicide watch and in a cell on his own when he returns to
jail.
It is reported that the brothers stated that they were unaware of what was going on all that time and that interviews with the abductees show no evidence that Pedro and Onil were involved.
It is so uplifting to read that these young women and the little girl can now get on with lives which have been so horribly interrupted. The people welcoming them home will have their own difficulties to deal with. I hope that the media leave them in peace but I don't see it happening.
A horror story with a happy ending, good to read after all the shocking tales of child sex abuse in the UK.

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by aiyoyo on 13.05.13 12:18

Donations are pouring into funds set up for the women. City Councilman Brian Cummins said $50,000 has been raised with the goal of creating a trust fund for each in hopes of making them financially independent.
The Cleveland Foundation's portion of the Cleveland Courage Fund had raised $20,000 as of Thursday with contributions from 34 states as well as Canada, Australia and France. Donations range in size from $3 to $1,000, according to Susan Christopher, a spokeswoman for the Cleveland Foundation.

Considering three victims here having gone through a hellish decade of traumatic ordeal in inhumane conditions, the donation pales by comparison to Mcstandards.
The Mccanns amassed Millions of pounds just into the first few weeks of having the Fund up, for a missing child allegedly abducted, whom no one knew at that stage that the Fund was going to be used for the search or that Maddie was going to remain missing for an indefinite time.

It leaves one wondering how donating public decide on deserving cause.



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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by tigger on 13.05.13 13:48

@aiyoyo wrote:
Donations are pouring into funds set up for the women. City Councilman Brian Cummins said $50,000 has been raised with the goal of creating a trust fund for each in hopes of making them financially independent.
The Cleveland Foundation's portion of the Cleveland Courage Fund had raised $20,000 as of Thursday with contributions from 34 states as well as Canada, Australia and France. Donations range in size from $3 to $1,000, according to Susan Christopher, a spokeswoman for the Cleveland Foundation.

Considering three victims here having gone through a hellish decade of traumatic ordeal in inhumane conditions, the donation pales by comparison to Mcstandards.
The Mccanns amassed Millions of pounds just into the first few weeks of having the Fund up, for a missing child allegedly abducted, whom no one knew at that stage that the Fund was going to be used for the search or that Maddie was going to remain missing for an indefinite time.

It leaves one wondering how donating public decide on deserving cause.



What is preferable? If I am a true Roman Catholic Christian, if Maddie is dead, she will be with God. Is that not preferable to 6 years of being raped?
I am am a true believer, then I know I will see her again when I die and I know that being an innocent, she will be with the angels meantime.


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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by aiyoyo on 13.05.13 16:17

You mean the Public had foresight that Madeleine was going to be raped for 6 long years and more when they made the generous donation? By comparison the trio who was raped for a decade then released got considerably less.

I mean how do the donating public determine which type of trape victim deserves more and which type of victim deserves less?
I am just perplexed that a Fund set up in UK was given generously to by the UK public as well as international public when the abduction claim was yet to be proven at that stage. They only had the parents words for it.

Yet a Fund set up in America for proven victims serially raped for a decade invoked considerably less from US donors and international donors.

One is left wondering what is it about the Mccanns case that invoke people to give so generously as opposed to those given to other victims.

Are the UK public suckers for a soap story by middle-class white doctors? I guess what I'm trying to figure out whether class makes a difference to donors when donating.

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by tigger on 13.05.13 16:53

No, I mean using every single instance of girls and women who have been kidnapped and raped for many years to prop up the myth that Maddie must be alive and 'can be saved'.
Whilst it is next to impossible for a child to be found alive after just a few days if she's been abducted by a paedophile.

Gerry said in response to the rescue of Natascha Kampusch, that it was an interesting concept in relation to Madeleine. Not the sort of remark I'd expect from a father - six years of abuse? bad

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by PeterMac on 13.05.13 18:16

But there is no evidence that she has come to any harm.
Being drugged, then abducted from the comfort and security (Oh, all right then, the relative comfort and security) of her own family, being locked up in a Hellish Lair of their own invention and repeatedly abused by a predatory Paed**** of their own invention over a period of six years does not, apparently in McSpeak, count as "Harm" ?

What planet are they from ?
And why do people not ask them what the hell they are talking about ?
They make it sound as if the search were not a matter of much urgency.
She's OK.
She can wait until after the big party for the 100 / 200 / 1000 days which we have been planning. Don't want to mess that up !

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by Monty Heck on 13.05.13 19:44

PeterMac Today at 6:16 pm

But there is no evidence that she has come to any harm.

Being drugged, then abducted from the comfort and security (Oh, all right then, the relative comfort and security) of her own family, being locked up in a Hellish Lair of their own invention and repeatedly abused by a predatory Paed**** of their own invention over a period of six years does not, apparently in McSpeak, count as "Harm" ?

What planet are they from ?
And why do people not ask them what the hell they are talking about ?
They make it sound as if the search were not a matter of much urgency.
She's OK.
She can wait until after the big party for the 100 / 200 / 1000 days which we have been planning. Don't want to mess that up !

Aligning the case of their child with this case of kidnap and sexual abuse of young women seems grossly inappropriate and it is hard to fathom why they want anyone to link M with a case of this type. While it is true that these young women came out of their ordeal alive, it is just not that simple. It is not a case of being simply alive or not alive. They may all be irreparably damaged by what they experienced and CM's bland statement which takes no account of what these women have suffered or what they may continue to suffer in the years ahead is rather offensive. The Team never give any indication that they have thought about how M might feel on hearing or reading a press release that her parents' hope is reaffirmed when some poor creature is unearthed after years of imprisonment and abuse.

M is now 10 years old and, if fortunate enough to have been kidnapped and well treated these past 6 years, how could any parent be confident that situation would continue as she grew older? Would not parents of a child in such a situation be frantic with worry concerning dangers which may increase with advancing years, but instead as we have recently heard they have "found a new normality". Six years on and they are happy with the ongoing painfully slow SY case review, although it has yet to suggest anyone is any nearer to finding their daughter. Their PR as ever fails to hit the mark but it seems it is of no consequence that they are identifying their child with the most horrendous cases, or that their remarks are inappropriate as long as it gets a headline. Seems the good marketing ploy is alive and well.

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by ShuBob on 13.05.13 20:07

Monty Heck, when Gerry name-checked the particularly horrendous case of Sabine Dardenne, I knew there where no depths he would plumb. How a parent can use that case in a supposedly positive light is something I cannot fathom . There are some things better left unsaid just like Kate didn't need to include the details contained on page 129 in her book.

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Re: Three women found in Ohio house after being missing for a decade

Post by Guest on 13.05.13 20:13

@ShuBob wrote:Monty Heck, when Gerry name-checked the particularly horrendous case of Sabine Dardenne, I knew there where no depths he would plumb. How a parent can use that case in a supposedly positive light is something I cannot fathom . There are some things better left unsaid just like Kate didn't need to include the details contained on page 129 in her book.
***
Hear, hear ...

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