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Do they know the game's up ?

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Philthecynic on 08.05.13 14:56

I would like Lorraine Kelly to answer this question
There are so many media figures who have interviewed McCanns with sympathy and appear to have bought into the bull. These are not unintelligent people, they must be able to see the holes in the story. Some probably feel that the sympathetic treatment of the case will emphasise their 'Caring motherly' image. Some may just be looking to boost ratings. Some may even be looking forward to the time that the whole thing falls apart and they can bleat about the con artists who took in the poor tv presenter, how could they be such nasty people etc.
It will be interesting how these people deal with it come the moment of truth.

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by russiandoll on 08.05.13 14:59

from twitter :

http://t.co/xYsWrq1spT



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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by russiandoll on 08.05.13 15:19

@Philthecynic wrote:
I would like Lorraine Kelly to answer this question
There are so many media figures who have interviewed McCanns with sympathy and appear to have bought into the bull. These are not unintelligent people, they must be able to see the holes in the story. Some probably feel that the sympathetic treatment of the case will emphasise their 'Caring motherly' image. Some may just be looking to boost ratings. Some may even be looking forward to the time that the whole thing falls apart and they can bleat about the con artists who took in the poor tv presenter, how could they be such nasty people etc.
It will be interesting how these people deal with it come the moment of truth.


Some people are simply too kindhearted to question what is presented as truth and take things at face value, even those things which merit scrutiny.
It is sensible to have a healthy skepticism when presented with something which does not add up.

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contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by russiandoll on 08.05.13 15:26

@tiny wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:Brilliant question off the twitter site
To all Pro-McCanns, and those who hate people who ask questions, try this

"Had the McCanns taken one of your kids on holiday and lost it, would you accept the McCann version of events ?"


Touché, I think.

I would like Lorraine Kelly to answer this question


can I ask the audience or phone a friend?

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Cristobell on 08.05.13 15:50

I have been looking at similar cases from the US, Lisa Irwin, Isabel Celis and Hayley Dunne. In each of these cases the parents have courted the media and interviewers have treated them with kid gloves. In the case of Lisa Irwin, a cadaver dog alerted within the family home, yet the police have claimed to be looking for a live child.

Looking at the way these cases are handled by the media and the police in the US, it becomes apparent that the McCann case is being treated similarly here in the UK. The interviewers are simply doing their job, that is, they must accept the stories at face value, their programmes come under the umbrella of light entertainment - they are not interrogators. Although, I agree the gushing Lorraine goes a little OTT.

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by pennylane on 08.05.13 15:58

If the McCanns toxic facade is ever exposed, Lorraine Kelly will end up looking as grotesque as Esther Rantzen did in regards to Jimmy Saville.

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Guest on 08.05.13 16:03

@pennylane wrote:If the McCanns toxic facade is ever exposed, Lorraine Kelly will end up looking as grotesque as Esther Rantzen did in regards to Jimmy Saville.

When, dear, when..

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by pennylane on 08.05.13 16:30

@Portia wrote:
@pennylane wrote:If the McCanns toxic facade is ever exposed, Lorraine Kelly will end up looking as grotesque as Esther Rantzen did in regards to Jimmy Saville.

When, dear, when..

Soon, I hope, soon....

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Basics

Post by Woburn_exile on 02.06.13 18:10

Not sure if this is the best forum but here goes. The legal profession love to dance off into what I call the "nonsensesphere" points that can be debated, precedents suggested for or against, legal arguments, you name it they will milk it. In this case we have "witnesses" referring to the children being left crying, a suspicious man seen hanging around, an ID of a person living locally placed under suspicion because some journo remembered the Ian Huntley case, adults only evenings suggesting that the Tapas crew were swingers, text messages stolen wallets, misunderstandings threats by police etc etc. Very little of this would be relevant to a trial jury with the case as it stands.

Now lets look at what we do have:
It is a statistical fact that less than 1 in 10,000 children is abducted by a complete stranger.
Kate and Gerry McCann did leave their children unattended, 2 of them babies, 1 less than 4 years.
The announced disappearance was given by Kate McCann, who will by default be placed at the top of the suspect list to be eliminated from investigation in the same way as anyone who finds a dead body in a murder case is the first suspect.
Kate McCann lied repeatedly about finding an open window in the apartment.
Proven Cadaver dogs detected the presence of a cadaver having been in the apartment rented by the McCanns and also in a car hired by the couple 3 weeks after the alleged disappearance.
A proven human blood detector dog also alerted to the presence of residues of human blood in the same places and upon examination of the car a DNA sample was almost certainly Madeleine McCanns.

Sensible logic:
Even if the Cadaver dogs made a mistake on any avaerage basis of 500:1 the chances of both of them making the same mistake in the same incident are expotentially mutiplied or 500 x 2 x 500 x 2. Call it a round Million.
Then consider the fact that only 1 in 10.000 missing children is abducted by a stranger. You could say that makes it a 1 in 10 Billion coincidence.
The DNA sample, I'll take advice on that one
Kate McCann lied about the apartment open window. Proven lie. This makes her evidence non credible to a Jury.
One more concrete fact will surely crush them, if the analogy above under sensible logic is not enough to .

Not looking good for the McCanns is it?

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Peneda Geres on 02.06.13 18:20

@Portia wrote:
@pennylane wrote:If the McCanns toxic facade is ever exposed, Lorraine Kelly will end up looking as grotesque as Esther Rantzen did in regards to Jimmy Saville.

When, dear, when..

Or Jim Davidson on SoVile for that matter.

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by pennylane on 02.06.13 18:25

@Woburn_exile wrote:Not sure if this is the best forum but here goes. The legal profession love to dance off into what I call the "nonsensesphere" points that can be debated, precedents suggested for or against, legal arguments, you name it they will milk it. In this case we have "witnesses" referring to the children being left crying, a suspicious man seen hanging around, an ID of a person living locally placed under suspicion because some journo remembered the Ian Huntley case, adults only evenings suggesting that the Tapas crew were swingers, text messages stolen wallets, misunderstandings threats by police etc etc. Very little of this would be relevant to a trial jury with the case as it stands.

Now lets look at what we do have:
It is a statistical fact that less than 1 in 10,000 children is abducted by a complete stranger.
Kate and Gerry McCann did leave their children unattended, 2 of them babies, 1 less than 4 years.
The announced disappearance was given by Kate McCann, who will by default be placed at the top of the suspect list to be eliminated from investigation in the same way as anyone who finds a dead body in a murder case is the first suspect.
Kate McCann lied repeatedly about finding an open window in the apartment.
Proven Cadaver dogs detected the presence of a cadaver having been in the apartment rented by the McCanns and also in a car hired by the couple 3 weeks after the alleged disappearance.
A proven human blood detector dog also alerted to the presence of residues of human blood in the same places and upon examination of the car a DNA sample was almost certainly Madeleine McCanns.

Sensible logic:
Even if the Cadaver dogs made a mistake on any avaerage basis of 500:1 the chances of both of them making the same mistake in the same incident are expotentially mutiplied or 500 x 2 x 500 x 2. Call it a round Million.
Then consider the fact that only 1 in 10.000 missing children is abducted by a stranger. You could say that makes it a 1 in 10 Billion coincidence.
The DNA sample, I'll take advice on that one
Kate McCann lied about the apartment open window. Proven lie. This makes her evidence non credible to a Jury.
One more concrete fact will surely crush them, if the analogy above under sensible logic is not enough to .

Not looking good for the McCanns is it?

Spot on, and I agree absolutely!

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by tasprin on 02.06.13 22:27

@Woburn_exile wrote:Not sure if this is the best forum but here goes. The legal profession love to dance off into what I call the "nonsensesphere" points that can be debated, precedents suggested for or against, legal arguments, you name it they will milk it. In this case we have "witnesses" referring to the children being left crying, a suspicious man seen hanging around, an ID of a person living locally placed under suspicion because some journo remembered the Ian Huntley case, adults only evenings suggesting that the Tapas crew were swingers, text messages stolen wallets, misunderstandings threats by police etc etc. Very little of this would be relevant to a trial jury with the case as it stands.

Now lets look at what we do have:
It is a statistical fact that less than 1 in 10,000 children is abducted by a complete stranger.
Kate and Gerry McCann did leave their children unattended, 2 of them babies, 1 less than 4 years.
The announced disappearance was given by Kate McCann, who will by default be placed at the top of the suspect list to be eliminated from investigation in the same way as anyone who finds a dead body in a murder case is the first suspect.
Kate McCann lied repeatedly about finding an open window in the apartment.
Proven Cadaver dogs detected the presence of a cadaver having been in the apartment rented by the McCanns and also in a car hired by the couple 3 weeks after the alleged disappearance.
A proven human blood detector dog also alerted to the presence of residues of human blood in the same places and upon examination of the car a DNA sample was almost certainly Madeleine McCanns.

Sensible logic:
Even if the Cadaver dogs made a mistake on any avaerage basis of 500:1 the chances of both of them making the same mistake in the same incident are expotentially mutiplied or 500 x 2 x 500 x 2. Call it a round Million.
Then consider the fact that only 1 in 10.000 missing children is abducted by a stranger. You could say that makes it a 1 in 10 Billion coincidence.
The DNA sample, I'll take advice on that one
Kate McCann lied about the apartment open window. Proven lie. This makes her evidence non credible to a Jury.
One more concrete fact will surely crush them, if the analogy above under sensible logic is not enough to .

Not looking good for the McCanns is it?

Very good point re statistics. I've often wondered what the odds are of a highly trained cadaver dog and blood dog simultaneously making almost a dozen false alerts in the extremely rare case of an abducted child. If those dogs were so incredibly unreliable why were they subsequently used in high profile cases such Adrian Prout? Would law enforcement agencies around the world continue hiring Martin Grime for what is a crucial task in the full knowledge that his dogs are thoroughly useless? No.

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by marconi on 02.06.13 23:23

I'm sure that there were some new articles here, yesterday Sunday and I can not find them back. Please help me fiding them!

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by PeterMac on 03.06.13 9:28

@tasprin wrote:
Very good point re statistics. I've often wondered what the odds are of a highly trained cadaver dog and blood dog simultaneously making almost a dozen false alerts in the extremely rare case of an abducted child. If those dogs were so incredibly unreliable why were they subsequently used in high profile cases such Adrian Prout? Would law enforcement agencies around the world continue hiring Martin Grime for what is a crucial task in the full knowledge that his dogs are thoroughly useless? No.

Martin Grime is currently a Consultant to
FBI Evidence Response Team, Forensic Canine Program USA
November 2010 – Present (2 years 8 months) USA Washington DC, Virginia

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/martin-grime/8/4a7/972

Didn't the McCanns want the FBI to be involved ?
Oh bitter irony !

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Guest on 03.06.13 9:45

I think that the McCanns will have changed their minds about involving the FBI!

It's good to know that they didn't succeed in bringing Martin Grime's career to a grinding halt.

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 03.06.13 9:52

The application of Forensic Canine resources in the investigation of alleged child abduction

  • September 2010 to Present

Team Members: Martin Grime

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Copied from his Linkdin page under current projects! He also lists homicide and alleged child abduction as a specialism.

I don't think we've heard that last of him in relation to this case somehow. I am pretty certain he and Operation Grange will be having or have had some rather interesting little talks....

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by IAmNotMerylStreep on 03.06.13 10:01

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:It's good to know that they didn't succeed in bringing Martin Grime's career to a grinding halt.

I assume Martin Grime is aware of all the libelous remarks about him made by the McCann's and their viscous supporters on twitter and various other places.

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by PeterMac on 03.06.13 10:43

@IAmNotMerylStreep wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:It's good to know that they didn't succeed in bringing Martin Grime's career to a grinding halt.
I assume Martin Grime is aware of all the libelous remarks about him made by the McCann's and their viscous supporters on twitter and various other places.

Yes. But he is / was a Police officer, and they / we have to put up with all sorts of stuff, not only from suspects, but also from lawyers.
You have to face being called a liar in open court - so reportable in the papers - by Solicitors, junior barristers and even by Silks.
If they are Guilty they have two choices
Admit what they have done
or LIE
And the lies are often fairly easy to spot.

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Me on 03.06.13 12:22

And this is one of the mistakes i feel they made in their defence of themselves.

The way they compeltely dismissed the dogs findings don't correlate with the actions of parents who believe their child has been abducted.

Had they taken the line "we are shocked and horrified to discover blood and other fluids in the apartment and we can only hope and prey Maddie is ok" then they may have aroused less suspicion.

Their rabid insistence that the dogs were wrong, in so many places but only places in contact with them is highly suspicious and smacks of defending themselves at all cost even if they come across as flat earthers and destroys their credibility.

I always though that was a tactical mistake on their part.

On a seperate but related point i have often wonder if there is still some DNA evidence remaining which could be examined now.

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What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Woburn_exile on 03.06.13 13:59

@Me wrote:And this is one of the mistakes i feel they made in their defence of themselves.

The way they compeltely dismissed the dogs findings don't correlate with the actions of parents who believe their child has been abducted.

Had they taken the line "we are shocked and horrified to discover blood and other fluids in the apartment and we can only hope and prey Maddie is ok" then they may have aroused less suspicion.

Their rabid insistence that the dogs were wrong, in so many places but only places in contact with them is highly suspicious and smacks of defending themselves at all cost even if they come across as flat earthers and destroys their credibility.
.

They were interviewed by a portuguese presenter on this very subject. The Kate McCann response was practically a panic attempt to change the subject . Gerald McCann simply in a very smug tone said "ask the dogs Sandra". That is the reaction of someone who knows he's off the hook.

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Me on 03.06.13 14:10

@Woburn_exile wrote:
@Me wrote:And this is one of the mistakes i feel they made in their defence of themselves.

The way they compeltely dismissed the dogs findings don't correlate with the actions of parents who believe their child has been abducted.

Had they taken the line "we are shocked and horrified to discover blood and other fluids in the apartment and we can only hope and prey Maddie is ok" then they may have aroused less suspicion.

Their rabid insistence that the dogs were wrong, in so many places but only places in contact with them is highly suspicious and smacks of defending themselves at all cost even if they come across as flat earthers and destroys their credibility.
.

They were interviewed by a portuguese presenter on this very subject. The Kate McCann response was practically a panic attempt to change the subject . Gerald McCann simply in a very smug tone said "ask the dogs Sandra". That is the reaction of someone who knows he's off the hook.

Yes, i remember the interview with Sandra.

The point is less that it would have been aroused less suspicion about them if they had acknowledeged as a possibility that the dogs were correct but that they hoped they were wrong and that no harm had come to Maddie.

Their denials made them seem more guilty of something and less credible.

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What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Ayniia on 03.06.13 19:55

@russiandoll wrote:
@Philthecynic wrote:
I would like Lorraine Kelly to answer this question
There are so many media figures who have interviewed McCanns with sympathy and appear to have bought into the bull. These are not unintelligent people, they must be able to see the holes in the story. Some probably feel that the sympathetic treatment of the case will emphasise their 'Caring motherly' image. Some may just be looking to boost ratings. Some may even be looking forward to the time that the whole thing falls apart and they can bleat about the con artists who took in the poor tv presenter, how could they be such nasty people etc.
It will be interesting how these people deal with it come the moment of truth.


Some people are simply too kindhearted to question what is presented as truth and take things at face value, even those things which merit scrutiny.
It is sensible to have a healthy skepticism when presented with something which does not add up.
Sandra surely saw the holes in the story.
I didn't read the British press regarding this case before coming into the forum, now that I do I find it astonishing. No one even doubts or pose them hard questions and it seems like a war. A war against the evil Portuguese cops who let the "abductor" escape. Completely forgetting the "unreliable " dogs and anything to do with the police files. As I showed the other day about the "Scandinavian looking person " Mario now says he saw , the British press ignored his first testimony and even said he was "uneasy " with the Portuguese investigation. The Portuguese press said exactly the same adding that : in his first testimony he said he saw nothing suspicious " and added a link to the PJ file of his testimony. The Mccanns always make sure that no uneasy questions will be asked because they had that before and that gave us the: Ask the dogs Sandra...


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