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Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by Newintown on 06.05.13 16:37

@ShuBob wrote:
@Newintown wrote:Could it be that Jenny Murat has been approached by the Express to serialise her book, which is due for publication shortly, and this article from from Robert Murat is part of the book? Are the Express testing the waters before they go about serialising the book and opening a can of worms?

Only my thoughts of course, I could be way off the mark.

I don't think so as the writer mentions Murat running his fingers through his thick dark hair and rubbing his tanned chin

Having said that, I do hope you are right about the serialisation of Jenny Murat's book and the Express testing the waters

Yes, well they could have still interviewed him having been in receipt of part of the book and followed what had actually been written with a few things added in, i.e. his hair. But then of course they may never have interviewed him and just made it up from the article they'd been sent by the "soon to be" publishers.

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by ShuBob on 06.05.13 16:40

It's all plausible Newintown. I'd like to read Jenny Murat's book and I hope if it's going to be serialised in the UK it's by one of Desmond's newspapers

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by suzyjohnson on 06.05.13 16:52

Well done, Finn, thanks.

One excuse after another regarding the reconstruction. Either these people have astonishing disregard for the wellbeing of a young child, or they know with certainty that they cannot help her by going back to Portugal. Each comment is just about as bad as the last, but how about this from Doctor Fiona Payne,

'...And I still don't see, erm, I think, emotionally, it would be hideous to go back and have to do an re-enactment, I really do, and I don't see how, erm, emotions couldn't affect the way it was done, because it would just be horrific, I mean, imagine, you know, Jane having to relive that, Kate having relive that .......' What about Madeleine? What the Tapas group would have to go through during a reconstruction doesn't even compare to what Madeleine might have to go through, assuming she were still alive, and as GM says 'there is no evidence to say that she is dead'.

ShoBob, I think the reconstruction is different to a Crimewatch film to appeal for new information. It's more concerned with each person playing the role they played on the day to highlight inconsistances in their evidence. That's the reason none of them want to go back.

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by Newintown on 06.05.13 16:53

@ShuBob wrote:It's all plausible Newintown. I'd like to read Jenny Murat's book and I hope if it's going to be serialised in the UK it's by one of Desmond's newspapers

Wouldn't that put the cat amongst the pigeons. I think a lot of people will be queuing up to order it, no doubt the McCanns will be at the top of the pre-order list.

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by loopzdaloop on 06.05.13 16:53

@stillsloppingout wrote:I was sitting outside Preston Nick waiting for Nigel Evans MP to leave ,[ my pic of him in the car leaving ] and was having a chat to my old mate who was a snapper over at the time in PDL who i have mentioned before . The first thing i asked him was " Do you have any news old or new re the Mccann case? . He confirmed in his opinion that the payouts were a major stumbling block . But that that HIS involvement with Hacked off HAS hacked off the top brass in the media [ how can you support a guy in the press on one hand ,who is trying to destroy you [ the Press ] on the other ? ]

The same story is repeated today in the Daily Star. It should open up some lively debate , I have stated on other forums ONLY Murat can get this thing moving again , this is a subtle and deliberate act .

[ PS They are always in the same edition's as when i get a byline in ] today being no exception !!

A while back you said
***LATEST NEWS AND UPDATES FROM THE TRIAL HERE*** SEE PAGE 40 FOR NEWS OF THE DATE AND TIME OF THE JUDGMENT
Gutted for Tony .

I always hoped somebody close would speak out , regarding this case but, i have my reason as to why they are being protected but thats for another time .

Are you ready to share your reasons as to what they're protected?

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by ShuBob on 06.05.13 17:00

@suzyjohnson wrote:[Snip]

ShoBob, I think the reconstruction is different to a Crimewatch film to appeal for new information. It's more concerned with each person playing the role they played on the day to highlight inconsistances in their evidence. That's the reason none of them want to go back.

I know that

My point is the tapas group know that their lies will be exposed and so wouldn't willingly take part in a reconstruction. By forcing them, they may deliberately scupper the whole thing. I am of the belief they would rather go to jail with their mouths shut than submit to a reconstruction where their lies would be laid bare. They could of course confess and a reconstruction may then not be necessary.

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by ShuBob on 06.05.13 17:03

@Newintown wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:It's all plausible Newintown. I'd like to read Jenny Murat's book and I hope if it's going to be serialised in the UK it's by one of Desmond's newspapers

Wouldn't that put the cat amongst the pigeons. I think a lot of people will be queuing up to order it, no doubt the McCanns will be at the top of the pre-order list.

They're probably seeking advance copies for Carter-Ruck to go through with a fine toothed comb to find anything they can use to stop publication in the UK.

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by Newintown on 06.05.13 17:07

@ShuBob wrote:
@suzyjohnson wrote:[Snip]

ShoBob, I think the reconstruction is different to a Crimewatch film to appeal for new information. It's more concerned with each person playing the role they played on the day to highlight inconsistances in their evidence. That's the reason none of them want to go back.

I know that

My point is the tapas group know that their lies will be exposed and so wouldn't willingly take part in a reconstruction. By forcing them, they may deliberately scupper the whole thing. I am of the belief they would rather go to jail with their mouths shut than submit to a reconstruction where their lies would be laid bare. They could of course confess and a reconstruction may then not be necessary.

Following on from that, I have said in the past as so many other people have said on this forum that no doubt the PJ have done their own reconstruction themselves many years ago and know that none of it adds up. That's why the McCanns and their "friends" will not go back to co-operate, unless they're forced to by law, which I truly hope they are in the very near future.

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by Newintown on 06.05.13 17:12

@ShuBob wrote:
@Newintown wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:It's all plausible Newintown. I'd like to read Jenny Murat's book and I hope if it's going to be serialised in the UK it's by one of Desmond's newspapers

Wouldn't that put the cat amongst the pigeons. I think a lot of people will be queuing up to order it, no doubt the McCanns will be at the top of the pre-order list.

They're probably seeking advance copies for Carter-Ruck to go through with a fine toothed comb to find anything they can use to stop publication in the UK.

There's no doubt about that, but then who will be footing the bill, that's an interesting question. Is that another £20,000 (at a guess) from the Find Madeleine Fund/Support Madeleine's Wider Family Fund that is going down the plughole, but obviously not been used to actually find Madeleine.

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by Ayniia on 06.05.13 17:15

About the reconstruction,I think it was as simple as:

"So Gerry and Jez were talking here...
- No maybe we were the other side of the road.
-No you said you were here so stay put.
-Now Jane passes by you two...none of you see her... Shocked"
The end

[img][/img]

From GA documentary and from Mcs documentary(being this last one as Jane "saw it" across the street)

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by pennylane on 06.05.13 17:20

The more you analyze the impact, and adverse effect on TM, of the Sunday Express interview with Robert Murat, the more you appreciate the mastermind and sheer genius behind it.

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by PeterMac on 06.05.13 17:27

It is a brilliant way of the Express expressly saying they do not believe the official story, but avoiding threats and intimidation from you know who.

There is no chance at all of a reconstruction using the original people.
Not a chance.
Firstly it involves only a 15 minute time slot. between GM getting up from the table and JT's sighting. The rest is officially irrelevant.
There are few other dubious events which could not be cheerfully ignored as mistake or misunderstanding.
(KMs alleged return from the run, for example, to find the children having tea, and simultaneously signing MBM out of the creche can be brushed aside as just one of those things you can so easily forget when that same daughter has just gone missing and you are writing about it 4 years later)
Secondly it puts all the participants back into the jurisdiction, with the PJ waiting to pounce as it becomes obvious that their respective stories do not hold water, and cannot stand together.
The PJ are not going to let them slip away a second time.
Remember the mockmentary directed by GM, when the walk-through fell apart, even though it was not even in real time, and JT broke down in tears as her version was trashed on camera. She is not going to do that again.
She has refused to admit she might have been mistaken, as has GM, and there is no way of resolving that, either on camera or not.
One or other is mistaken, or lying.
Or possibly both, but not - Neither.
You cannot in logic have A and notA at the same time. That is not a matter of libel, it is logic.

Also remember that the PJ have no coercive power to "force " them to return, other than with a EAW, and that once they step back on Portuguese soil they can insist on being "arguido" again, potentially all of them, thus preserving their rights to remain silent. And a decent defence lawyer would immediately advise them not to take part and not to say anything.
It ain't going to happen.

ETA Pennylane - Just seen your post. Spot on. It is brilliant, and now all other papers can comment on what the Express have said.

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by ShuBob on 06.05.13 17:28

@Pennylane,

And you can understand why Clarence Mitchell refused to comment

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by Newintown on 06.05.13 17:36

@PeterMac wrote:It is a brilliant way of the Express expressly saying they do not believe the official story, but avoiding threats and intimidation from you know who.

There is no chance at all of a reconstruction using the original people.
Not a chance.
Firstly it involves only a 15 minute time slot. between GM getting up from the table and JT's sighting. The rest is officially irrelevant.
There are few other dubious events which could not be cheerfully ignored as mistake or misunderstanding.
(KMs alleged return from the run, for example, to find the children having tea, and simultaneously signing MBM out of the creche can be brushed aside as just one of those things you can so easily forget when that same daughter has just gone missing and you are writing about it 4 years later)
Secondly it puts all the participants back into the jurisdiction, with the PJ waiting to pounce as it becomes obvious that their respective stories do not hold water, and cannot stand together.
The PJ are not going to let them slip away a second time.
Remember the mockmentary directed by GM, when the walk-through fell apart, even though it was not even in real time, and JT broke down in tears as her version was trashed on camera. She is not going to do that again.
She has refused to admit she might have been mistaken, as has GM, and there is no way of resolving that, either on camera or not.
One or other is mistaken, or lying.
Or possibly both, but not - Neither.
You cannot in logic have A and notA at the same time. That is not a matter of libel, it is logic.

Also remember that the PJ have no coercive power to "force " them to return, other than with a EAW, and that once they step back on Portuguese soil they can insist on being "arguido" again, potentially all of them, thus preserving their rights to remain silent. And a decent defence lawyer would immediately advise them not to take part and not to say anything.
It ain't going to happen.

ETA Pennylane - Just seen your post. Spot on. It is brilliant, and now all other papers can comment on what the Express have said.

Surely there must be something in law, either Portugese or the UK that can make them or force them to go back to PDL to do a reconstruction. I can't believe that two countries can say "oh well, none of them will go back to do a reconstruction, there's nothing we can do about it". If the authorities think there is something to be found out from the reconstruction and they refuse, isn't that "perverting the cause of justice"?

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by ShuBob on 06.05.13 17:40

Newintown, I think in law they are allowed not to incriminate themselves. It will be hugely damaging to the McCanns if SY suggest they take part in a reconstruction and they refuse. I think even Lorraine Kelly will not be able to ignore the significance of such a refusal.

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by pennylane on 06.05.13 17:41

@ShuBob wrote:@Pennylane,

And you can understand why Clarence Mitchell refused to comment

Yes I most certainly do! ....and I'm loving it!

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by Guest on 06.05.13 17:47

@ShuBob wrote:Newintown, I think in law they are allowed not to incriminate themselves. It will be hugely damaging to the McCanns if SY suggest they take part in a reconstruction and they refuse. I think even Lorraine Kelly will not be able to ignore the significance of such a refusal.

SY will not suggest it

At least, they will not be seen to suggest it.

Theresa May may, if she'd true grit.

Or public outcry may, Hey, Des?

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by suzyjohnson on 06.05.13 17:50

ShuBob, if they scupper a reconstruction then they will have more explaining to do. And as you've just said it won't look good at all.

Hopefully there will be enough in the British press to make people question why SY have closed the review (if they do so without questioning the Tapas group)


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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by PeterMac on 06.05.13 17:53

@Newintown wrote:Surely there must be something in law, either Portugese or the UK that can make them or force them to go back to PDL to do a reconstruction. I can't believe that two countries can say "oh well, none of them will go back to do a reconstruction, there's nothing we can do about it". If the authorities think there is something to be found out from the reconstruction and they refuse, isn't that "perverting the cause of justice"?
I very much doubt it.
Reconstructions using the real witnesses and the real suspects are not part of normal English procedure. (I don't know about Portugal)
They offend against the right not to incriminate oneself, and so it is unlikely that in any modern civilised jurisdiction you could force someone to do it. Quite apart from the physical impossibility of forcing compliance.
And the right to remain silent probably deprives the prosecution of the power to make significant adverse comment on the refusal.
It is not perverting the course of justice to lie in your own defence to another charge, but it is a matter which is considered during sentencing.

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by Newintown on 06.05.13 17:56

@Portia wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:Newintown, I think in law they are allowed not to incriminate themselves. It will be hugely damaging to the McCanns if SY suggest they take part in a reconstruction and they refuse. I think even Lorraine Kelly will not be able to ignore the significance of such a refusal.

SY will not suggest it

At least, they will not be seen to suggest it.

Theresa May may, if she'd true grit.

Or public outcry may, Hey, Des?

What about the PJ, will they be told to shut up and keep quiet after all the £thousands or £millions that have been spent by the Country on finding out what happened to Madeleine?

What about GA, we still have to find out what will come out in that trial, too much, hopefully. That could be the end of the McCanns, with any luck.

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by Pershing36 on 06.05.13 18:04

@suzyjohnson wrote:ShuBob, if they scupper a reconstruction then they will have more explaining to do. And as you've just said it won't look good at all.

Hopefully there will be enough in the British press to make people question why SY have closed the review (if they do so without questioning the Tapas group)


It should also be investigated why a Government employed PR person was appointed so early on. I can only believe that came from the Government itself, not he thought he was getting a better deal. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Government was underwriting a lot of legal fee's, hence why they can be reduced by a 1/3 million.

They did and still do in my opinion have protection from the top. The answer to this could be why?

Maybe we should be looking at things that happened before, maybe something in the COMARE days.

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by PeterMac on 06.05.13 18:04


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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by ShuBob on 06.05.13 18:07

@PeterMac wrote:
@Newintown wrote:Surely there must be something in law, either Portugese or the UK that can make them or force them to go back to PDL to do a reconstruction. I can't believe that two countries can say "oh well, none of them will go back to do a reconstruction, there's nothing we can do about it". If the authorities think there is something to be found out from the reconstruction and they refuse, isn't that "perverting the cause of justice"?
I very much doubt it.
Reconstructions using the real witnesses and the real suspects are not part of normal English procedure. (I don't know about Portugal)
They offend against the right not to incriminate oneself, and so it is unlikely that in any modern civilised jurisdiction you could force someone to do it. Quite apart from the physical impossibility of forcing compliance.
And the right to remain silent probably deprives the prosecution of the power to make significant adverse comment on the refusal.
It is not perverting the course of justice to lie in your own defence to another charge, but it is a matter which is considered during sentencing.

In the recent Huhne/Vicky Pryce case, the prosecution mentioned the fact Pryce had answered "no comment" during police questioning and suggested this was in conflict with her defence. We know the prosecution case was successful.

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by tiny on 06.05.13 18:11

If the mccanns and tapas did the reconstruction they are done for and if they are asked and refuse then I hope the express do a big spread asking the mccanns and tapas why they refused.

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Re: Sunday Express tomorrow BRING THEM ALL BACK TO PORTUGAL

Post by ShuBob on 06.05.13 18:16

To put the bluntly, the tapas lot are stuck between a rock and a hard place as far as a reconstruction is concerned. They are damned if they do it and damned if they don't. It's entirely of their own making.

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