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Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by kitchen on 17.04.13 19:08

@Pollyanna wrote:I don't post much but am an avid reader/lurker:) However I've noticed an interesting piece on ITV This Morning's Facebook page. I'm not very good at posting links and help is required please because it's a news review regarding Mrs McCann's 'forgiving the person who snatched her daughter'. The comments are extremely interesting and worth a 'look see'.


I think this is it Pollyanna -2,600 plus comments worth a look - 7th post down


https://m.facebook.com/ThisMorning?refid=8&_ft_=qid.5867736692948621539%3Amf_story_key.-1792826333598948457

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by Peneda Geres on 17.04.13 19:15

@lj wrote:This nonsense about Kate forgiving who ever did this is another blatant example of her arrogant narcissism, or narcissistic arrogance, whatever you prefer.

Plus she could hook herself again on the frontpages, together with another big story. I really wonder why she has latched herself to the Boston drama.

Russiandoll, I have always believed that is was an accident, maybe under the influence of sedatives or not. I believe that after the crying incident they were warned that in Portugal it is punishable to leave your kids alone. I believe that the excuse for not just fessing up has always been: then the twins would not only have lost their sister, but will also loose their parents. I am convinced that that is the main reason for the "friends" to participate in the cover up. That and the fact they might all end up in jail, since they all left their kids alone, albeit without the lethal consequences.

It's not up to Kate to forgive. I wonder if she ever forgave herself for ignoring the heart wrenching "mommy, why didn't you come when we were crying?". But then I think she never felt any guilt about that, the woman is a true sociopath.

That, ladies and gentlemen of CR is my personal opinion. Thank God I am citizen of, and live in, a country where we have the freedom to have and to express personal opinions. You should try it one day, very liberating, redeeming almost.


I think you may be wrong saying it is punishable in Portugal to leave children alone, I may be wrong, but I'm sure I have read somewhere that it is only punishable if intent of harm is intended.
Like I said, I may be wrong. I would be grateful if anyone can clarify in order to put this neglect matter to bed, so to speak.
I do have one question to Peter Mac tho, am I right in thinking there is a crimes abroad policy in the UK?

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by Guest on 17.04.13 19:23

Repeating a mantra from here and other fora: "No neglect, no abduction".

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by lj on 17.04.13 21:51

Châtelaine wrote:Repeating a mantra from here and other fora: "No neglect, no abduction".

Yeah, I know, I just don't agree with that opinion.

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http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by lj on 17.04.13 22:03

@Peneda Geres wrote:
@lj wrote:This nonsense about Kate forgiving who ever did this is another blatant example of her arrogant narcissism, or narcissistic arrogance, whatever you prefer.

Plus she could hook herself again on the frontpages, together with another big story. I really wonder why she has latched herself to the Boston drama.

Russiandoll, I have always believed that is was an accident, maybe under the influence of sedatives or not. I believe that after the crying incident they were warned that in Portugal it is punishable to leave your kids alone. I believe that the excuse for not just fessing up has always been: then the twins would not only have lost their sister, but will also loose their parents. I am convinced that that is the main reason for the "friends" to participate in the cover up. That and the fact they might all end up in jail, since they all left their kids alone, albeit without the lethal consequences.

It's not up to Kate to forgive. I wonder if she ever forgave herself for ignoring the heart wrenching "mommy, why didn't you come when we were crying?". But then I think she never felt any guilt about that, the woman is a true sociopath.

That, ladies and gentlemen of CR is my personal opinion. Thank God I am citizen of, and live in, a country where we have the freedom to have and to express personal opinions. You should try it one day, very liberating, redeeming almost.


I think you may be wrong saying it is punishable in Portugal to leave children alone, I may be wrong, but I'm sure I have read somewhere that it is only punishable if intent of harm is intended.
Like I said, I may be wrong. I would be grateful if anyone can clarify in order to put this neglect matter to bed, so to speak.
I do have one question to Peter Mac tho, am I right in thinking there is a crimes abroad policy in the UK?

This is from PTLW78, someone who was very familiar with Portugese law, early on as you can see:


Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:32 am Post subject:
HI PTLW78

I HAVE ONE QUESTION REGARDING THE CRIME OF ABANDONMENT OR NEGLIGENCE.

WHY DO YOU THINK THE M'S WERE NOT CHARGED ACCORDING TO ARTICLE 138 OF OUR LEGAL CODE? DO YOU THINK IT WAS DUE TO THE MEDIATIC COVER ON THIS CASE OR DID THE PJ SUSPECT RIGHT AWAY THAT SOMETHING MORE SERIOUS HAD HAPPENED?

THANKS

Well, for all we know, the line of investigation and the PJ efforts may well be focusing on the crime of “abandonment” provided for in section 138 of the Penal Code. It is possible that the suspect were named “Arguidos” for the fact that they left 3 children unattended at home, which resulted in the death of one of them. This is a rather serious offense and is punished with up to 10 years in jail (up to 5 years if the abandonment does not result in death or serious physical offense).

In my opinion, three things may have happen:

- Simple management of the mediatic cover;

- Not focusing on the abandonment before being sure that the child is death;

- PJ is on the lookout for a more serious offense.

I don't see anything about intent there. IIRC that was the case in Britain. If someone has the portugese penal code and can read it I'll be happy to change my mind.

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"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by Guest on 17.04.13 22:11

Just for info, the Wright stuff on Radio 5 has a programme tomorrow on the article of this thread about forgiveness...........



The Wright Stuff‏@5WrightStuff7h

THURSDAY PREVIEW - CAN ANYTHING BE FORGIVEN? Are some people just too evil to forgive? Or is forgiveness more about moving on yourself?





@5WrightStuff



Official Twitter page of Channel 5's #wrightstuff. Dial 020 7173 5555 to call the show. For audience tickets call Anna on 020 7985 1927.

London · http://www.channel5.com/wrightstuff

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KM says she can forgive the person who took her daughter?

Post by suzyjohnson on 17.04.13 22:42

What does everyone make of today's news reports that Kate says she can forgive the person who took her daughter? This sounds very odd to me, I have never heard the mother of a missing child say anything like this. Perhaps if you had recovered your child, or you knew the reason someone had taken her then it might be possible to forgive, but when you don't know what had happened, or even know if your daughter was still alive, how could you possibly say that?

She also said that she was very angry with the person who had taken her but that she has got through that stage now. It sounds much more as though she knows the person, knows exactly what happened and has come to terms with it all to me. I think this is about the closest Kate has come to telling.

The other thing which I thought was interesting about this news is that, whatever did happen, for KM to feel anger and forgiveness, then that indicates that someone else was responsible and it wasn't her fault?

The only other explanation I can think is that, this statement is the next step on the McCann's road to recovery (knowing full well what has happened) an explanation of how they have been able to get over things and can now lead a normal life? I just can't believe that anyone could possibly forgive an abductor when they don't know what has happened.


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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by suzyjohnson on 17.04.13 22:48

I've just noticed the same topic under the news section

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by Guest on 17.04.13 22:52

@suzyjohnson wrote:I've just noticed the same topic under the news section



Have merged your topic suzy.

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The Wright Stuff's Facebook page

Post by Guest on 17.04.13 23:18

Interesting comments galore!

https://www.facebook.com/officialwrightstuff/posts/10152760861455422

No sign of Pam Gurney as far as I can see!

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by lj on 18.04.13 0:36

also from 2007:

Artigo 138.º

Exposição ou abandono

1 - Quem colocar em perigo a vida de outra pessoa:
a) Expondo-a em lugar que a sujeite a uma situação de que ela, só por si, não possa defender-se; ou
b) Abandonando-a sem defesa, em razão de idade, deficiência física ou doença, sempre que ao agente coubesse o dever de a guardar, vigiar ou assistir;
é punido com pena de prisão de 1 a 5 anos.

2 - Se o facto for praticado por ascendente ou descendente, adoptante ou adoptado da vítima, o agente á punido com pena de prisão de 2 a 5 anos.

3 - Se do facto resultar:
a) Ofensa à integridade física grave, o agente é punido com pena de prisão de 2 a 8 anos;
b) A morte, o agente é punido com pena de prisão de 3 a 10 anos.



Article 138

Exposure or Abandonment

1 - Whom endangers the life of another person:
a) By exposing her in a place where the person is subject to a situation which she cannot defend herself from on her own; or
b) By abandoning her in a defenseless state, for motive of age, physical defect or illness, when the agent had the duty to guard, watch or assist to the person;
is punished with a prison term of 1 to 5 years.

2 - If the fact is practised by an ascendant or descendant, adoptant or adoptee of the victim, the agent is punished with a prison term of 2 to 5 years.

3 - If the fact results in:
a) Serious offense to the physical integrity, the agent is punished with a prison term of 2 to 8 years;
b) Death, the agent is punished with a prison term of 3 to 10 years.



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"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by lj on 18.04.13 0:38

art 138 from the penal code.

I think that's a good answer on Gerry's question in my siggy.

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"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by tigger on 18.04.13 6:04

@lj wrote:art 138 from the penal code.

I think that's a good answer on Gerry's question in my siggy.

Interesting, should Maddie have been found, either dead or alive but abused, both or at least one of the parents would be looking at rather more than a two year sentence as Gerry stated in the Vanity Fair interview.
So no happy ending whatever 'happened'.

So glad to see you around! dance

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forgiveness questions..

Post by worriedmum on 18.04.13 8:54

Three things occur to me on this subject:

1 What is Kate forgiving, exactly?

2 Is Gerry forgiving too?

3 Is Kate likely to forgive Goncalo Amaral as well-before any court cases?

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by pennylane on 18.04.13 8:57

Mommie dearest was just on Lorraine!

Can be viewed again on ITV+1 at 09:30 if you have Sky

Damage limitations I reckon, as she isn't scheduled to be on there.....

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by Guest on 18.04.13 9:15

St Kate has certainly played it safe by talking to Lorraine - never fear, poor mortals who missed the sickfest and don't have Sky, you can watch it tomorrow on the ITV player.

Oh Lorraine, what a fool you're being taken for.

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by PeterMac on 18.04.13 9:21

@worriedmum wrote:Three things occur to me on this subject:
1 What is Kate forgiving, exactly?
2 Is Gerry forgiving too?
3 Is Kate likely to forgive Goncalo Amaral as well-before any court cases?

She cannot be forgiving the "abductor, because there wasn't one.
She cannot forgive Gonçalo Amaral, because he has done nothing to forgive.
She cannot forgive TB - ditto.
So we are left with . . . Forgiving Gerry for whatever he did, or organised,

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by pennylane on 18.04.13 9:33

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:St Kate has certainly played it safe by talking to Lorraine - never fear, poor mortals who missed the sickfest and don't have Sky, you can watch it tomorrow on the ITV player.

Oh Lorraine, what a fool you're being taken for.

She is indeed one hell of a fool! I think a quick phone call was made to get Kate on the show, to try and bail her out of her latest major gaffe

They mentioned Kate's new found ability to leave the twins in the car at the petrol station, conveniently omitting that she plonked them back in the creche aged just 2, in the vicinity of, and immediately following, the alleged abduction.

Not a dicky bird was mentioned this morning about Kate's forgiveness of the monster who allegedly took her child.

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by margaret on 18.04.13 10:18

@worriedmum wrote:Three things occur to me on this subject:

1 What is Kate forgiving, exactly?

2 Is Gerry forgiving too?

3 Is Kate likely to forgive Goncalo Amaral as well-before any court cases?

IMO we're being set up here.

They are going to pull out of the libel trial against Amaral and when it hits the papers they are going to say that if they can forgive the abductor they must forgive Amaral too and move forward.

If they then get charged with vexatious litigation they will be perfectly placed to become 'victims' of the Portuguese once more.

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by jeanmonroe on 18.04.13 10:28

Were tears running down her face when she was on the Lorraine show as she BEGGED/PLEADED directly to the 'abductor' to return her daughter?
Offering the 'abductor' absolutely ANYTHING in exchange for her childs safe return.

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by tiny on 18.04.13 10:39

@margaret wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:Three things occur to me on this subject:

1 What is Kate forgiving, exactly?

2 Is Gerry forgiving too?

3 Is Kate likely to forgive Goncalo Amaral as well-before any court cases?

IMO we're being set up here.

They are going to pull out of the libel trial against Amaral and when it hits the papers they are going to say that if they can forgive the abductor they must forgive Amaral too and move forward.

If they then get charged with vexatious litigation they will be perfectly placed to become 'victims' of the Portuguese once more.
I am thinking the same here,the mccanns are in the sh**

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by margaret on 18.04.13 10:53

@jeanmonroe wrote:Were tears running down her face when she was on the Lorraine show as she BEGGED/PLEADED directly to the 'abductor' to return her daughter?
Offering the 'abductor' absolutely ANYTHING in exchange for her childs safe return.

Nope. Same as the last 6 years.

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by tasprin on 18.04.13 10:59

Does anyone know from where this latest 'forgiveness' story originated? Was it the Express group or have they just followed up a story that was first published elsewhere?

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by Guest on 18.04.13 12:33

As I've mentioned before, it certainly isn't a new claim from the sainted one. I don't know whether or not it's in the book but it's been in newspaper articles before. If I can find a link to one, I'll add it later.

P.S. I might be thinking of St Kate's previous proclamation that she prays for the "abductor" rather than forgiving him / her / them.

Let's hope that she now moves on to spread her benevolence to real people.

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Re: Madeleine McCann missing: Kate McCann says she could forgive daughter's abductor

Post by tasprin on 18.04.13 13:28

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:As I've mentioned before, it certainly isn't a new claim from the sainted one. I don't know whether or not it's in the book but it's been in newspaper articles before. If I can find a link to one, I'll add it later.

Thanks No Fate. I do remember reading some years ago that KM forgave the abductor but I was wondering from which news group this latest round of 'forgiveness' stories actually originated because it does the McCanns no favours particularly as it comes at the same time a little boy was murdered in Boston and his mother and young sister suffered horrific life changing injuries. Unbelievably the Star shoved that family's ordeal to one side in favour of KM's ancient words of forgiveness. Judging from their never ending court cases and the fact they have CR on speed dial for the past six years, she's obviously very selective about who she forgives, although you'd think a paedophile abductor/murderer would be last on her list.

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