The 'watchful abductor' and sedation

1 Were the twins sedated on the night of 3rd May 2007?
The question of sedation of the three McCann children is one which has caused
problems since the very beginning.
Reported facts.
Around 10 pm 3rd May 2007 Kate McCann entered the apartment in the holiday
resort and reported Madeleine missing. The younger twins were still in their travel
cots in the same room, and were asleep.
What followed is a matter of public record. The apartment was searched, several
times, by many people, the surrounding area was searched by large numbers of
police and ex-pats and villagers, and huge amount of activity was directed to
discovering Madeleine’s whereabouts. All were in vain.
BUT . . . during all of this commotion -
despite a window and shutters having been open for an hour on a cold night,
despite the door slamming shut,
despite curtains blowing into the room,
despite their mother frantically opening and closing wardrobes and cupboards
despite their mother rushing out screaming for help,
despite the entire Tapas 7 group searching throughout the apartment,
despite Kate and the Tapas group shouting Madeleine’s name outside,
despite Gerry McCann’s closing and opening the shutters multiple times
despite Mrs Webster’s similarly attempting to open the shutters but failing,
despite the Police investigating the scene,
despite Gerry’s “roaring like a lion” and then prostrating himself on the floor,
despite both parents repeating this action and wailing
despite Kate’s checking the twins for vital signs,
despite the twins being lifted from their cots by people not their parents, and
despite their being carried out into the cold night air, and to another apartment.
[1.1]
Despite all of this . . . the twins did not wake
Kate McCann stated in 2011 that she had suspected sedation from the very first.
Given the above perhaps this is understandable. [1.2]
In her book, Madeleine, which she described as “A Version of the Truth”, she says
this explicitly.
3 May 2007 (NOTE: this information was not released until May 2011)
p. 75 “Had Madeleine been given some kind of sedative to keep her quiet ? Had
the twins, too ?” [1.3]
She also reported this to the Officer in the case
3 August 2007 (NOTE: this information was not released until June 2008)
“due to which she now presumes that they were under the effect of some sedative
drug that a presumed abductor had administered to the three children in order to
be able to abduct Madeleine, a situation which Kate refers to being possible . .”
[1.4]
The McCanns then organised their own drug tests
24 September 2007
Forensic scientist from Control Risks take hair samples from Kate and the twins at
the McCanns’ own request [1.5]
A family member was ‘allowed’ to release this to the press.
02 October 2007
“Madeleine was drugged by her abductor”, says her grandmother [1.6]
Gerry McCann reconfirms their suspicions
19 Nov. 2007
“Gerry McCann: The twins were still sleeping in the their cots so . . . we tried to
leave it as undisturbed as possible, and they slept very soundly until we moved
them out their cots into another apartment . . which does make you wonder if
there was [sic] any substances used to keep them asleep.” [1.7]
Independent witnesses report and confirm the McCanns’ suspicions
25 April 2008 (referring to early May 2007)
They also wanted to know whether the PJ had any evidence that would suggest that
the person who took Madeleine had used any substance to facilitate the abduction.
[1.8]
5 Nov. 2007
Diane Webster - Fiona Payne’s mother: “Err the twins were still asleep in the cot
and I, with all the noise going on I don’t know how they slept through it which makes
me think there was, they must have been err drugged with something.” . . .
“So how would you imagine that they may have been drugged?”
“Err by the abductor. I think Madeleine would have been drugged as well.” [1.9]
10 April 2008
Fiona Payne: “But they were okay, I mean, they were fine, they didn’t, they were
asleep, but at the time it did seem weird . . . they didn’t wake up and, again, that
was quite strange, even in the transfer and, and being handled by people that
weren’t their parents, they didn’t, they didn’t wake up.” [1.10]
Their own private detectives make a statement
11 Oct. 2009
Former police detectives David Edgar and Arthur Cowley . . . are convinced the
abductor went to the family’s apartment on May 3 2007 fully prepared with sufficient
drugs, probably chloroform, to knock out all three children. The fact that Sean and
Amelie, then just 18 months old, failed to wake when the alarm was raised, nor
even as they were taken to another apartment in the cold night air, has persuaded
the detectives that they, too, must have been drugged. [1.11]
And just before the release of her book ‘Madeleine’, Kate says she believes they were drugged.
13 May 2011
Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins on the night Madeleine was
taken. Kate McCann said the kidnapper who seized Madeleine may also have
drugged her other two children, as she launched a new appeal in the hunt for her
missing girl today.
Mrs McCann said she had to check that twins Sean and Amelie were still breathing
because they did not wake as they began a frantic search for the missing threeyear-
old. [1.12]

Those then are the facts relating to the McCanns’ belief in sedation of the twins.
NOTE:
Levels of sedation are assessed according to the The Ramsay
Sedation Scale. RSS. This was the first scale to be defined for sedated
patients and was designed as a test of rousability. The RSS scores
sedation at six different levels, according to how rousable the patient is.
It is an intuitively obvious scale and therefore lends itself to universal
use, not only in the ICU, but wherever sedative drugs or narcotics are
given. It can be added to the pain score and be considered the sixth vital
sign.
Ramsay Sedation Scale
1 Patient is anxious and agitated or restless, or both
2 Patient is cooperative, oriented and tranquil
3 Patient responds to commands only
4 Patient exhibits brisk response to light glabellar (forehead) tap or
loud auditory stimulus
5 Patient exhibits a sluggish response to light glabellar tap or loud
auditory stimulus
6 Patient exhibits no response [1.13]
The twins are clearly in point 6 on the scale. They are failing to respond to
external stimuli, cold, light, noise - including screaming, the inevitable jolting of the
cots placed so close together in a small room during the search and window /
shutter procedures, human touch, being picked up by person other than their own
parents, and so on. [1.14]

We should remember that Kate McCann and Fiona Payne are both qualified
anaesthetists. Even a non qualified parent should recognise the difference
between a child which was merely asleep, and one that was sedated. or
unconscious. We return to this aspect in the third question.

So to restate the original question - were the twins sedated ?

The reply must surely be, that having regard to all the available evidence, we can
confirm the parents’ and witnesses original and subsequent thoughts and say that
on the balance of probabilities -
the twins Amelie and Sean McCann were sedated

tigger wrote:You might like to read this topic: http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3748-sofa-accident-death-really

I think it proves the impossibility of an accident having happened that night.

Curioser wrote:

tigger wrote:You might like to read this topic: http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3748-sofa-accident-death-really

I think it proves the impossibility of an accident having happened that night.

Hi Tigger, thank you for that. I have been ill the last couple of weeks and have fallen down the rabbit hole but I can see that I am outclassed here and a complete newbie. I'll read all 27 pages after tea.

That said, and seeing as you seem to be online at the moment have people discussed the extra phones? and the class ramifications for the McCann's?