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Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Guest on 07.04.13 14:55

Totally off topic, but heck, its Sunday, and it looks as if spring could be in the air:

Changed avatar not liking the red of Katherines post-Christmas state mantle.

Bjork = ok

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Guest on 07.04.13 14:59

candyfloss wrote:
@Portia wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@Portia wrote:
In order to create the abduction scheme, JT had to see an abductor where she allegedly saw him/her;
In order for the abductor-cum-child to be seen removing himself from the appartment, he had to move from left to right as he did;
In order for him to be able to move as he allegedly did, he had to start from behind the building, from the left (as 'seen' by JT);
In order for him to be able to start from behind the building, he had to have exited through either the shutters or the front door;
As the McCs opted for the jemmied shutters scenario, they had to purpor the front door was unavailable for exit -> locked;

So the locking of the front door with a key -by none other than Gerry himself- was vectored in at first.

This 'version of the truth' capsized immediately upon the PJ finding the key to the front door inside the appartment, where Gerry had apparently left it laying about. Dr Amaral calls this discovery the turning moment in the enquiry.
Interesting one Portia.
I can't find the bit about the key in the book. He mentions 'key' three times in chapter 3, but talks about copies in the safe for the cleaners.
Was this in the book, or an interview. Can you remember ?

An interview, one I read around 3-6 mnths ago. Could have been an older one though.
Dr Amaral finished by remarking: 'so the lying commenced right form the start', or words to that effect.
IIRC the key was found in the kitchen.

Portia see my post on previous page re key and Control Risk Group, at 1.10 pm.

Thank you!

My 70yr memory has holes in it HMS Hermes could have sailed through.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 07.04.13 15:01

@Portia wrote:Totally off topic, but heck, its Sunday, and it looks as if spring could be in the air:

Changed avatar not liking the red of Katherines post-Christmas state mantle.

Bjork = ok

Was just thinking that Spring obviously suits you Portia! thumbsup

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by PeterMac on 07.04.13 16:01

So control risks spotted within minutes that they were lying.
If they did, then Dr Amaral certainly did.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Guest on 07.04.13 16:53

@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@Portia wrote:Totally off topic, but heck, its Sunday, and it looks as if spring could be in the air:

Changed avatar not liking the red of Katherines post-Christmas state mantle.

Bjork = ok

Was just thinking that Spring obviously suits you Portia!

OT: Thanks!
I like Bjorks impish/pixyish nature.
And spring is sooh welcome after all this snow, sleet, mist, nebulae, cold, bedpans atd atd.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Guest on 07.04.13 17:08

I can't see your new avatar Portia, just a blank space??

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 07.04.13 17:27

@Portia wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@Portia wrote:Totally off topic, but heck, its Sunday, and it looks as if spring could be in the air:

Changed avatar not liking the red of Katherines post-Christmas state mantle.

Bjork = ok

Was just thinking that Spring obviously suits you Portia!

OT: Thanks!
I like Bjorks impish/pixyish nature.
And spring is sooh welcome after all this snow, sleet, mist, nebulae, cold, bedpans atd atd.
It sure is welcome - please no more snow! smilie

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by plebgate on 07.04.13 18:35

@footballfan

As RF has posted - confusion doesn't wash really when they were so SURE about other things.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Guest on 07.04.13 18:41

candyfloss wrote:I can't see your new avatar Portia, just a blank space??

Thats funny, I can see it myself. Singer Bjork from the official catalogue

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Guest on 07.04.13 18:50

I can't see it either Portia, but I also have the same problem with some other people's avatars and the majority of those on the site gallery have gone too.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Swizzlestick on 07.04.13 18:56

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I can't see it either Portia, but I also have the same problem with some other people's avatars and the majority of those on the site gallery have gone too.

I can see it if that helps any.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Guest on 07.04.13 19:36

I can see it too.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by wjk on 07.04.13 21:58

I can't.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Guest on 08.04.13 9:21

This is for anyone bereft by being unable to see Bjork.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htobTBlCvUU

Apologies to dear old Antonella for the disruption to her topic!

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by russiandoll on 08.04.13 15:04

here is a better one.

http://youtu.be/41iySHgV_iI



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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by littlepixie on 08.04.13 23:47

The last day you ever see your lost loved one is etched in your memory forever. You remember what you did in minute detail, what you ate, what paper you bought, who you saw, the exact minute you found them gone, the state of the room, everything.

I picked my sister up. I went to the Church and handed over my request for a "mention" at the Mass plus a tenner. I went in the Paper Shop next door and bought a Paper, crisps and a drink.


Three minutes past nine in the morning I lost my loved one 24 years ago.

I remember exactly the route I took into the Hospital.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by PeterMac on 09.04.13 7:59

@littlepixie wrote:The last day you ever see your lost loved one is etched in your memory forever. You remember what you did in minute detail, what you ate, what paper you bought, who you saw, the exact minute you found them gone, the state of the room, everything. . .
Exactly so. I was told of my brother's death, and could quote you almost the exact words the police officers - who were personal friends - used. One had tea and other coffee. and so on.

Is this why there is no mention of events of 2nd ? too painful and would take up too much of the book ?

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by plebgate on 09.04.13 10:29

@PeterMac wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:Also, you make a good point. I don't think even Katey has claimed mistranslation in the bewk has she? Knows damn well there wasn't any. Every statement ends with reads, ratifies and signs. So. All those statements saying they saw 'odd people hanging around' stands to reason they were probably mistranslated as well
Hope my reasoning makes sense, not been awake long
It certainly does.
She might have to admit that JT's sighting was mistranslated, and the words 'did not see' were somehow not included.

And to be serious again, in the two versions of GM's statement it is made absolutely clear, by his inclusion of extraneous and unnecessary detail, that what is written was what he meant.
By over-egging the pudding he has made it impossible or anyone to claim that it was a misunderstanding or a loss of meaning in translation.

1 Thus, at 9.05 pm, the deponent entered the club, using his key, the door being locked,
2 Despite what he said in his previous statements, he states now and with certainty, that he left with KATE through the back door which he consequently closed but did not lock, given that that is only possible from the inside.

Once again, if he had been more vague he might have got away with it, but those two contradictory and mutually exclusive statements nail his feet to the floor. And the inclusion in the second statement of the phrase Despite what he said in his previous statements does not allow for the interpretation "someone obviously mistranslated it".
He is admitting that he lied in the first statement. Or possibly in the second. We shall never know.

And for the record Carter-Ruck, in one or other, or possibly in both, he LIED. To the Police, who were there to try to find his daughter. Right from the start.
It is not defamatory to state that. It is a matter of record. Your client LIED. Has he told you the truth ? And how do you know ? Your Mrs Mattorell backed away from saying she believed your clients, which might have been a very wise move !

Also with the many dealings TB had with Carter Fruck (especially during his trial) was it ever said that TB had based his beliefs on mistranslated statements?

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by PeterMac on 09.04.13 10:47

@plebgate wrote:
Also with the many dealings TB had with Carter Fruck (especially during his trial) was it ever said that TB had based his beliefs on mistranslated statements?
That is a very good point.
Kate does not dwell on it in the book, though she raises it, but then fails to detail which bits in which statements are clearly wrong and clearly put the whole investigation in jeopardy. She missed the opportunity.
And the trial was the ideal chance to tell the world that everyone except the inner core were operating on badly translated statements.
But they didn't. They missed the opportunity.

Or perhaps they didn't because in fact the statements are as close as can be to the originals.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by plebgate on 10.04.13 8:01

@PeterMac wrote:
@plebgate wrote:
Also with the many dealings TB had with Carter Fruck (especially during his trial) was it ever said that TB had based his beliefs on mistranslated statements?
That is a very good point.
Kate does not dwell on it in the book, though she raises it, but then fails to detail which bits in which statements are clearly wrong and clearly put the whole investigation in jeopardy. She missed the opportunity.
And the trial was the ideal chance to tell the world that everyone except the inner core were operating on badly translated statements.
But they didn't. They missed the opportunity.

Or perhaps they didn't because in fact the statements are as close as can be to the originals.


Text in red speaks volumes to me.

Until I hear otherwise from them or their spokesperson and the details of which bits have been mistranslated I will continue to believe that the statements are as close to the originals as can be.

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