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Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

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Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by PeterMac on 05.04.13 8:12

Has the infamous Antonella had a sudden rush of blood to the head ?
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/4872543/MONSTERS-SHAMELESS-CROCODILE-TEARS.html

After the Philpotts’ shameless crocodile tears, here are other monsters caught crying their lies out

Sham ... Matthews
Published: 04th April 2013
9

THEY are the guilty who are caught in the spotlight – partners or relatives of crime victims who weep crocodile tears at police press conferences while all the time THEY are the ones the cops are hunting.

Killer ... Philpott
That was the case with Mick and Mairead Philpott, who cried for the cameras even though they had killed their six children themselves.
Here ANTONELLA LAZZERI profiles other tearful fakers who turned out to be hiding the darkest of secrets.

Karen Matthews
WHEN nine-year-old Shannon Matthews vanished on her way home from a swimming pool on February 19, 2008, her mum Karen made a plaintive appeal.
Wiping away tears, she said: “Shannon, we love you so, so much. Please come home.”
Relatives and friends mounted a huge campaign to find the missing girl but police were suspicious from the start. They kept close tabs on Matthews, above, who spent most of her time away from the cameras partying with friends.
The difference in her behaviour on and off camera even made one of her best friends suspicious and she eventually confronted Matthews in a police car, saying she believed she knew where her daughter was.
Matthews broke down and admitted the kidnap was a sham, aimed at securing a £50,000 reward for the girl’s return. On March 14 she was found hidden in the base of a bed at the nearby home of Paul Donovan, uncle of Matthews’s boyfriend, in Dewsbury, West Yorks.
In November 2008 both were tried and convicted of kidnapping, false imprisonment and perverting the course of justice. Both were jailed for eight years.

Gordon Wardell
Gang claim ... Wardell and wife Carol
CATERS NEWS AGENCY / NEWSTEAM
GORDON WARDELL pleaded for help in finding the killers of his wife Carol, a building society manager murdered in September 1994.
Wardell, of Meriden, West Mids, claimed a gang had captured her. A month later he was arrested and in December 1995 he was jailed for life, with a minimum of 18 years.

John Tanner
Ice-cool calm ... John Tanner and Rachel McLean
JOHN TANNER told reporters of his desperation when his girlfriend, Oxford student Rachel McLean, 19, vanished in April 1991.
But cops were amazed at his ice-cool calm and found her body under floorboards at her home, where he had hidden it.
At his 1991 trial Tanner, 22, admitted murder and was jailed for life.

Iftikhar and Farzana Ahmed
Honour killing ... dad Iftikhar and Shafilea
AFTER 17-year-old Shafilea Ahmed vanished from her home in Warrington, Cheshire, on September 11, 2003 her parents Iftikhar and Farzana gave an emotional TV interview.
The body of Shafilea was found in a Cumbrian river in February 2004.
In May 2012 her parents were jailed for life for her “honour killing”.

Paul Dyson
Scheming ... Dyson and victim Joanne
ROSS PARRY / ENTERPRISE NEWS AND PICTURES
TEARFUL Paul Dyson went on TV to plead for help in finding his 22-year-old girlfriend Joanne Nelson, who had gone missing on Valentine’s Day 2005.
But scheming 31-year-old Dyson, of Hull, had strangled her. He later confessed to a friend, who told his mother, who told cops.
In November 2005 Dyson was jailed for life.

Darren Vickers
TV plea ... Vickers and murdered Jamie
BUS driver Darren Vickers was the last man to see eight-year-old Jamie Lavis on May 5, 1997.
After the boy vanished he befriended his distraught family in Openshaw, Manchester, making a tearful TV plea on their behalf.
But in April 1999, at Preston Crown Court, Vickers was jailed for life for Jamie’s murder.

Tracie Andrews
'Road rage' ... Tracie Andrews and fiancé Lee Harvey
HER left eye bruised, ex-model Tracie Andrews shook as she told a press conference of the “fat man with staring eyes” who had stabbed to death her 25-year-old fiancé Lee Harvey in a road rage attack in Alvechurch, Worcs, in December 1996.
But in July 1997 at Birmingham Crown Court she was convicted of murder and jailed for life.

Quy and wife Lynsey
WHEN his wife Lynsey disappeared over Christmas 1998, Mitchell Quy threw himself into a round of TV appeals.
He even let a documentary crew follow him around as he “searched” for her.
But lying Quy, of Southport, had killed Lynsey and chopped up her body before disposing of it.
He got life after finally confessing.

Miles Evans
Act ... Evans and Zoe Hamilton
HUGGING girlfriend Paula Hamilton as she broke down in tears while pleading for news of her missing daughter Zoe, Miles Evans acted the worried stepdad.
Zoe, nine, had vanished from her home in Warminster, Wilts, in January 1997. But after her naked body was found, former soldier Evans was jailed for life for her murder.

By JOHN O’CONNOR, former Scotland Yard commander
FOR some years the police have provided facilities for crime victims to hold press conferences. It is useful in bringing the grief and tragedy of serious crime to the public’s attention.
Very often witnesses and vital evidence is flushed out and can lead to the conviction of the perpetrator.
Occasionally the conference is used by offenders in an attempt to hoodwink the police and public, as was the case with the Philpotts. Mick Philpott’s performance was excruciating and left even his most ardent supporters in no doubt of his guilt.
Only the most stupid and arrogant of people will attempt to pull this off and Philpott more than proved this. It is significant that he demanded to have a conference. He walked straight into an elephant trap.
Genuine victims have nothing to fear and the police are grateful for their courage and determination. But police may use a press conference as a technique with suspects to see how they might slip up.
What they say and how they behave will be closely monitored and analysed.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Guest on 05.04.13 9:42

This has I think just been rehashed from the Crocodile Tears documentary of a few years ago.

Perhaps a light will suddenly come on above Antonella's head and she'll wonder if another infamous case might one day be added to the list.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by plebgate on 05.04.13 10:53

No time for this worman whether she has changed her tune or not.

Jog on woman, waste of space imo.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by The End Is Nigh on 05.04.13 12:00

I'm not a great believer in psychobabble, but surely there must be a "syndrome" to describe the self-contradictory nature of the personal beliefs of folk like Lazzeri? If they are her personal beliefs, of course ...............

ie There are so many apparently common features in all the instances she refers to in the quoted piece that she applies reason and logic to draw them together to make her point: And yet she dismisses Healy & McCann despite the parallels, somehow making them an exception or "special case".

Once the latter are made fully to account for themselves, I shall be most interested to see how the tune might change to provide retrospective reasoning for her apparent aberration.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Cristobell on 05.04.13 15:10

It is a strange phenomenon and a case where the Mccanns will become the most infamous of them all - so many interviews, so much written. I do indeed wonder how many interviews the Mccs did - it must be some kind of record? In the early days their schedule must have matched the Windsors - like the Queen, they too had an annual Christmas gig, actually they were one up, they had a May one as well. How fortunate that the brilliant Hideho has captured so many of those startling moments - have been re-watching McMinutes on Youtube, and wondering why they have always been so compelled to make headlines this past 6 years. It has always been within their power to step out of the limelight and retire with a nice little nest egg to fund legitimate private detectives for the rest of their lives.

Some could say that they need to fight back against all the negative information on the internet, but in the face of the world wide web, it is something that is beyond their, or for that matter, anyone's, control. Anyone knows that if you respond to a troll you perpetuate the cycle, it allows the discourse to continue. Even if they manage to stop one blogger on the net, others will appear in legions. Injunctions aren't working, they want a change in the legislation. Why are they so aggressively trying to change the Law of the Land?

As for the crocodile tears, I can't help but wonder what drives these evil people to seek out publicity, dare I say infamy, as though they are relishing the cat and mouse game. They are in it for the long haul, have been from the start. World sympathy was accompanied by lots of cash. Wouldn't it be nice to be on the receiving end of 'just put the cash in an envelope addressed to Kate and Gerry in Rothly'? What a shame K&G have no capacity to stop their need for attention (and cash) from overriding all common sense.


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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by plebgate on 06.04.13 0:06

Regarding the interviews and discrepancies being noted - it does seem to me that their supporters use the excuse of mistranslation of the interviews from Portugese into English.

IIRC a senior British detective reportedly said along the lines of take a look at the discrepancies in the father's statement.

Are we being asked to believe that this detective based his comment on a mistranslated interview?

Also Mr. and Mrs., we are told, paid a very considerable amount of money having the files translated into English. A simple statement in one of their many tv appearances would quickly clear up any mistranslation issues surely.

Edited to add - has whoever translated the original files into English been sued for misrepresentation or something along those lines?

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 07.04.13 9:32

@plebgate wrote:Regarding the interviews and discrepancies being noted - it does seem to me that their supporters use the excuse of mistranslation of the interviews from Portugese into English.

IIRC a senior British detective reportedly said along the lines of take a look at the discrepancies in the father's statement.

Are we being asked to believe that this detective based his comment on a mistranslated interview?

Also Mr. and Mrs., we are told, paid a very considerable amount of money having the files translated into English. A simple statement in one of their many tv appearances would quickly clear up any mistranslation issues surely.

Edited to add - has whoever translated the original files into English been sued for misrepresentation or something along those lines?
Shamefully, plebgate, that IS used an excuse. I wonder what all the erm, ah, tut, you know, hmmm's should have been translated as? big grin
Mistranslated statements, useless cued dogs, tut whatever next?

There is no logic to it either. One or two mistranslations could be POSSIBLE but as Amaral says, there a hundreds of clues pointing to a certain event!..... Also, you make a good point. I don't think even Katey has claimed mistranslation in the bewk has she? Knows damn well there wasn't any. Every statement ends with reads, ratifies and signs. So. All those statements saying they saw 'odd people hanging around' stands to reason they were probably mistranslated as well winkwink
Hope my reasoning makes sense, not been awake long laughat

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by PeterMac on 07.04.13 10:20

@rainbow-fairy wrote:Also, you make a good point. I don't think even Katey has claimed mistranslation in the bewk has she? Knows damn well there wasn't any. Every statement ends with reads, ratifies and signs. So. All those statements saying they saw 'odd people hanging around' stands to reason they were probably mistranslated as well winkwink
Hope my reasoning makes sense, not been awake long laughat
It certainly does.
She might have to admit that JT's sighting was mistranslated, and the words 'did not see' were somehow not included.

And to be serious again, in the two versions of GM's statement it is made absolutely clear, by his inclusion of extraneous and unnecessary detail, that what is written was what he meant.
By over-egging the pudding he has made it impossible or anyone to claim that it was a misunderstanding or a loss of meaning in translation.

1 Thus, at 9.05 pm, the deponent entered the club, using his key, the door being locked,
2 Despite what he said in his previous statements, he states now and with certainty, that he left with KATE through the back door which he consequently closed but did not lock, given that that is only possible from the inside.

Once again, if he had been more vague he might have got away with it, but those two contradictory and mutually exclusive statements nail his feet to the floor. And the inclusion in the second statement of the phrase Despite what he said in his previous statements does not allow for the interpretation "someone obviously mistranslated it".
He is admitting that he lied in the first statement. Or possibly in the second. We shall never know.

And for the record Carter-Ruck, in one or other, or possibly in both, he LIED. To the Police, who were there to try to find his daughter. Right from the start.
It is not defamatory to state that. It is a matter of record. Your client LIED. Has he told you the truth ? And how do you know ? Your Mrs Mattorell backed away from saying she believed your clients, which might have been a very wise move !

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Monty Heck on 07.04.13 11:01

PeterMac Today at 10:20 am
Is anyone aware of any explanation ever put forward as to why the McCs made statements on 4 May that they exited the apartment on the night of 3 May via the front door, which they locked, which GMcC then contradicted on 10 May when he stated it was the via the rear patio door, which they left unlocked?
Presumably the contradiction became necessary when the claim of a break in was dismissed by the investigation, but how did the McCs justify such a startling contradiction to their initial statement (if indeed they ever did)? These first 7 days or so was such a crucial period for the investigation into finding out what had become of their child so it would have been essential to ensure that the information provided to the investigation was correct, yet in this case the parents admitted to lying about which exit they used and that they had left it secured. The question of why they lied about this doesn't seem to have been raised in any of their media interviews nor did it seem to have been asked during the 6 Sept arguido interviews, yet it's one of the earliest and most fundamental inconsistencies and it appears not to have been followed up.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by PeterMac on 07.04.13 11:27

@Monty Heck wrote:PeterMac Today at 10:20 am
Is anyone aware of any explanation ever put forward as to why the McCs made statements on 4 May that they exited the apartment on the night of 3 May via the front door, which they locked, which GMcC then contradicted on 10 May when he stated it was the via the rear patio door, which they left unlocked?
Presumably the contradiction became necessary when the claim of a break in was dismissed by the investigation, but how did the McCs justify such a startling contradiction to their initial statement (if indeed they ever did)? These first 7 days or so was such a crucial period for the investigation into finding out what had become of their child so it would have been essential to ensure that the information provided to the investigation was correct, yet in this case the parents admitted to lying about which exit they used and that they had left it secured. The question of why they lied about this doesn't seem to have been raised in any of their media interviews nor did it seem to have been asked during the 6 Sept arguido interviews, yet it's one of the earliest and most fundamental inconsistencies and it appears not to have been followed up.

Kate HAD to say she entered via the patio, or she would have walked past the jemmied open shutters on her way to the front door.
So that bit at least makes sense.
As does the relative proximity of the patio door, one minute away, when the front door is double that.
So the probability is that they did use the patio door, which had to be left unlocked because it apparently only locks from the inside ( ? ? ? )
(As also, probably did the other ground floor people, JT included, which was the conclusion of several PJ officers )
But that leaves the strange lie about using the front door "using his key".
And also the odd fact that GM takes a week to correct this lie in a statement. Not the next morning when it should have been obvious to him that KM and MO had said in their statements that they used the patio door, but a week later.

It must have been clear to the PJ officers right from the start that they were being lied to, and automatically therefore the focus of attention would be on the lies, rather than on the missing child. As indeed it is to this day.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Guest on 07.04.13 11:32

@Monty Heck wrote:PeterMac Today at 10:20 am
Is anyone aware of any explanation ever put forward as to why the McCs made statements on 4 May that they exited the apartment on the night of 3 May via the front door, which they locked, which GMcC then contradicted on 10 May when he stated it was the via the rear patio door, which they left unlocked?
Presumably the contradiction became necessary when the claim of a break in was dismissed by the investigation, but how did the McCs justify such a startling contradiction to their initial statement (if indeed they ever did)? These first 7 days or so was such a crucial period for the investigation into finding out what had become of their child so it would have been essential to ensure that the information provided to the investigation was correct, yet in this case the parents admitted to lying about which exit they used and that they had left it secured. The question of why they lied about this doesn't seem to have been raised in any of their media interviews nor did it seem to have been asked during the 6 Sept arguido interviews, yet it's one of the earliest and most fundamental inconsistencies and it appears not to have been followed up.

That's an easy one, Monty:

In order to create the abduction scheme, JT had to see an abductor where she allegedly saw him/her;
In order for the abductor-cum-child to be seen removing himself from the appartment, he had to move from left to right as he did;
In order for him to be able to move as he allegedly did, he had to start from behind the building, from the left (as 'seen' by JT);
In order for him to be able to start from behind the building, he had to have exited through either the shutters or the front door;
As the McCs opted for the jemmied shutters scenario, they had to purpor the front door was unavailable for exit -> locked;

So the locking of the front door with a key -by none other than Gerry himself- was vectored in at first.

This 'version of the truth' capsized immediately upon the PJ finding the key to the front door inside the appartment, where Gerry had apparently left it laying about. Dr Amaral calls this discovery the turning moment in the enquiry.

Kapish?

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Monty Heck on 07.04.13 11:40

PeterMac Today at 11:27 am


Kate HAD to say she entered via the patio, or she would have walked past the jemmied open shutters on her way to the front door.
So that bit at least makes sense.
As does the relative proximity of the patio door, one minute away, when the front door is double that.
So the probability is that they did use the patio door, which had to be left unlocked because it apparently only locks from the inside ( ? ? ? )
(As also, probably did the other ground floor people, JT included, which was the conclusion of several PJ officers )
But that leaves the strange lie about using the front door "using his key".
And also the odd fact that GM takes a week to correct this lie in a statement. Not the next morning when it should have been obvious to him that KM and MO had said in their statements that they used the patio door, but a week later.

It must have been clear to the PJ officers right from the start that they were being lied to, and automatically therefore the focus of attention would be on the lies, rather than on the missing child. As indeed it is to this day.

Thanks PM, understand how they would have needed to lie, but as you say, leaving that information uncorrected for a week, at that critical juncture......! Interesting point that the focus of attention would be on the lies, rather than on the missing child. Interesting also that they seem never to have addressed this change of story, not even in The Book. It could have been quite rationally explained by something like, "G was worried that if he admitted we'd left the patio door open, we would have been in trouble and maybe lost the twins, but then we got the advice that our parenting had been reasonable, G decided to make a clean breast o it to make sure the investigation had all the salient facts" which would be fairly acceptable, but instead there's a quite peculiar silence.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Monty Heck on 07.04.13 11:42

Thanks Portia, kapish indeed!
Got to go now.
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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by PeterMac on 07.04.13 12:28

@Portia wrote:
In order to create the abduction scheme, JT had to see an abductor where she allegedly saw him/her;
In order for the abductor-cum-child to be seen removing himself from the appartment, he had to move from left to right as he did;
In order for him to be able to move as he allegedly did, he had to start from behind the building, from the left (as 'seen' by JT);
In order for him to be able to start from behind the building, he had to have exited through either the shutters or the front door;
As the McCs opted for the jemmied shutters scenario, they had to purpor the front door was unavailable for exit -> locked;

So the locking of the front door with a key -by none other than Gerry himself- was vectored in at first.

This 'version of the truth' capsized immediately upon the PJ finding the key to the front door inside the appartment, where Gerry had apparently left it laying about. Dr Amaral calls this discovery the turning moment in the enquiry.
Interesting one Portia.
I can't find the bit about the key in the book. He mentions 'key' three times in chapter 3, but talks about copies in the safe for the cleaners.
Was this in the book, or an interview. Can you remember ?

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by plebgate on 07.04.13 12:57

@Monty Heck wrote: PeterMac Today at 11:27 am


Kate HAD to say she entered via the patio, or she would have walked past the jemmied open shutters on her way to the front door.
So that bit at least makes sense.
As does the relative proximity of the patio door, one minute away, when the front door is double that.
So the probability is that they did use the patio door, which had to be left unlocked because it apparently only locks from the inside ( ? ? ? )
(As also, probably did the other ground floor people, JT included, which was the conclusion of several PJ officers )
But that leaves the strange lie about using the front door "using his key".
And also the odd fact that GM takes a week to correct this lie in a statement. Not the next morning when it should have been obvious to him that KM and MO had said in their statements that they used the patio door, but a week later.

It must have been clear to the PJ officers right from the start that they were being lied to, and automatically therefore the focus of attention would be on the lies, rather than on the missing child. As indeed it is to this day.

Thanks PM, understand how they would have needed to lie, but as you say, leaving that information uncorrected for a week, at that critical juncture......! Interesting point that the focus of attention would be on the lies, rather than on the missing child. Interesting also that they seem never to have addressed this change of story, not even in The Book. It could have been quite rationally explained by something like, "G was worried that if he admitted we'd left the patio door open, we would have been in trouble and maybe lost the twins, but then we got the advice that our parenting had been reasonable, G decided to make a clean breast o it to make sure the investigation had all the salient facts" which would be fairly acceptable, but instead there's a quite peculiar silence.

Do we know that they were definitely advised that their parenting was reasonable and even if they were told that we do not know what that advice was based on. As others have pointed out - at that early stage the "authorities" were being told that it was like dining in the back garden.

No lie, not even if the parent thought they would be in trouble, is acceptable when a child goes missing imo.


Thanks for reply RF - yes it made sense to me.


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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by footballfan333 on 07.04.13 12:59

hi all, just thought I would play devils advocate here!

Is it not possible to look at the possibility that when Gerry made his initial statement re exiting through the front door that he was remembering a previous day/occasion? certainly he would have been under a lot of stress and pressure either way in the situation. What with being in a foreign place, late at night,and had a few drinks, etc is it not possible that he was confused? And when statement time came round he just COULDN`T remember EXACTLY how he had left the apartment Im sure we have all argued a point and then realised that we made a mistake where we once thought we were 100% right to start with, sometimes days later. Maybe he just realised he`d got his 1st statement wrong when his second statement was made (Kate assured him maybe that he had in fact got it wrong beforehand?). It seems to me like there would have been to much thought to realise that his initial statement wouldnt add up and so we had better start changing things around to vector in all these other possibilities re the alleged sighting by JT, and then hope that it wouldnt be questioned.



When we are at home and we enter and exit by the same doors everyday, our memory would hardly be needed to recall an everyday occurance, IE left for work by the front door, as usual, came home from work and entered through the front door as usual. Needed my key, as usual. But when on holiday, somedays you leave by the patio doors, because its closet to the pool and you dont bother to lock the door, but if of to the beach, you lock the back doors and leave through the front door, for security purposes. When on holiday, somedays you go to the beach and some to the pool, sometimes more than once a day!! If this had happened on the 1st or 2nd day then I would not allow much of a margin for error, but as this happened later in the holiday,is it not possible that he was in fact confused? IMO, I think there has to be an allowance for a larger margin of memory error here. And yes I realise that this was at the Most critical moment of their lives, which could possibly only add to the pressure and make perfect memory recall even harder. Sometimes the harder you try at something the worse you are at it !!

I kinda think that if you are going to lie, tell your lie then STICK TO IT, no matter what!!

Surely they must have heard of the phrase "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Guest on 07.04.13 13:10

@PeterMac wrote:
@Portia wrote:
In order to create the abduction scheme, JT had to see an abductor where she allegedly saw him/her;
In order for the abductor-cum-child to be seen removing himself from the appartment, he had to move from left to right as he did;
In order for him to be able to move as he allegedly did, he had to start from behind the building, from the left (as 'seen' by JT);
In order for him to be able to start from behind the building, he had to have exited through either the shutters or the front door;
As the McCs opted for the jemmied shutters scenario, they had to purpor the front door was unavailable for exit -> locked;

So the locking of the front door with a key -by none other than Gerry himself- was vectored in at first.

This 'version of the truth' capsized immediately upon the PJ finding the key to the front door inside the appartment, where Gerry had apparently left it laying about. Dr Amaral calls this discovery the turning moment in the enquiry.
Interesting one Portia.
I can't find the bit about the key in the book. He mentions 'key' three times in chapter 3, but talks about copies in the safe for the cleaners.
Was this in the book, or an interview. Can you remember ?



Hi PeterMac, Control Risks mention it in the files. Here are Goncalo Amaral's words from interview, which is very interesting and well worth a read.......



GA....There is a report from Control Risks6, the first private detective agency which was brought to the case [by the McCanns] in the very first days, where they state, after speaking with Gerald McCann and other witnesses in that group [Tapas 9], that the key that Mr. Gerald McCann alleges to have used had in fact been left in the kitchen, in the kitchen’s counter. Right away, the lies started. Moreover, in order to have an abductor he would have had to enter through here [sliding doors]. Apart from the fact that there are no traces of a break-in, there aren't any fingerprints, he could have used gloves for example, in any case the entry would have to be done through here. There are no signs of a forced entry anywhere; not in the door nor in the window

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/03/maddie-case-goncalo-amaral-returns-to.html

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by plebgate on 07.04.13 13:19

@footballfan

I don't think it would have taken me a week to realise I had made a mistake, if I had done of course.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Guest on 07.04.13 13:24

@footballfan333, why would you go the long way round and not use the patio door which was left specifically for this purpose. Also see my earlier post re the keys on kitchen table.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by footballfan333 on 07.04.13 13:43

@plebgate,

Yes it may not have taken YOU a week, but we are all different!

Dont get me wrong here, im not purporting their innocence, i honestly think that something is afoot solely on the fact of KM 48 unanswered questions. But i do think that honest mistakes can happen under certain extreme circumstances. I find it hard to swallow that they would be lying in bed at night discussing how they had better change this part and that of their story because it didnt fit with key (pardon the pun) parts of the evidence. If the phillpots could figure out that their room was bugged, then surely thay would have had suspicions of something like this happening to them as well no?

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Guest on 07.04.13 13:58

@PeterMac wrote:
@Portia wrote:
In order to create the abduction scheme, JT had to see an abductor where she allegedly saw him/her;
In order for the abductor-cum-child to be seen removing himself from the appartment, he had to move from left to right as he did;
In order for him to be able to move as he allegedly did, he had to start from behind the building, from the left (as 'seen' by JT);
In order for him to be able to start from behind the building, he had to have exited through either the shutters or the front door;
As the McCs opted for the jemmied shutters scenario, they had to purpor the front door was unavailable for exit -> locked;

So the locking of the front door with a key -by none other than Gerry himself- was vectored in at first.

This 'version of the truth' capsized immediately upon the PJ finding the key to the front door inside the appartment, where Gerry had apparently left it laying about. Dr Amaral calls this discovery the turning moment in the enquiry.
Interesting one Portia.
I can't find the bit about the key in the book. He mentions 'key' three times in chapter 3, but talks about copies in the safe for the cleaners.
Was this in the book, or an interview. Can you remember ?

An interview, one I read around 3-6 mnths ago. Could have been an older one though.
Dr Amaral finished by remarking: 'so the lying commenced right form the start', or words to that effect.
IIRC the key was found in the kitchen.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Guest on 07.04.13 14:02

@footballfan333 wrote:hi all, just thought I would play devils advocate here!

Is it not possible to look at the possibility that when Gerry made his initial statement re exiting through the front door that he was remembering a previous day/occasion? certainly he would have been under a lot of stress and pressure either way in the situation. What with being in a foreign place, late at night,and had a few drinks, etc is it not possible that he was confused? And when statement time came round he just COULDN`T remember EXACTLY how he had left the apartment Im sure we have all argued a point and then realised that we made a mistake where we once thought we were 100% right to start with, sometimes days later. Maybe he just realised he`d got his 1st statement wrong when his second statement was made (Kate assured him maybe that he had in fact got it wrong beforehand?). It seems to me like there would have been to much thought to realise that his initial statement wouldnt add up and so we had better start changing things around to vector in all these other possibilities re the alleged sighting by JT, and then hope that it wouldnt be questioned.



When we are at home and we enter and exit by the same doors everyday, our memory would hardly be needed to recall an everyday occurance, IE left for work by the front door, as usual, came home from work and entered through the front door as usual. Needed my key, as usual. But when on holiday, somedays you leave by the patio doors, because its closet to the pool and you dont bother to lock the door, but if of to the beach, you lock the back doors and leave through the front door, for security purposes. When on holiday, somedays you go to the beach and some to the pool, sometimes more than once a day!! If this had happened on the 1st or 2nd day then I would not allow much of a margin for error, but as this happened later in the holiday,is it not possible that he was in fact confused? IMO, I think there has to be an allowance for a larger margin of memory error here. And yes I realise that this was at the Most critical moment of their lives, which could possibly only add to the pressure and make perfect memory recall even harder. Sometimes the harder you try at something the worse you are at it !!

I kinda think that if you are going to lie, tell your lie then STICK TO IT, no matter what!!

Surely they must have heard of the phrase "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"

Don't think so. They are not very litterate people, are they?

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Guest on 07.04.13 14:04

@footballfan333 wrote:@plebgate,

Yes it may not have taken YOU a week, but we are all different!

Dont get me wrong here, im not purporting their innocence, i honestly think that something is afoot solely on the fact of KM 48 unanswered questions. But i do think that honest mistakes can happen under certain extreme circumstances. I find it hard to swallow that they would be lying in bed at night discussing how they had better change this part and that of their story because it didnt fit with key (pardon the pun) parts of the evidence. If the phillpots could figure out that their room was bugged, then surely thay would have had suspicions of something like this happening to them as well no?

'Course.

Maybe that's why they took up jogging together?

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by Guest on 07.04.13 14:12

@Portia wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@Portia wrote:
In order to create the abduction scheme, JT had to see an abductor where she allegedly saw him/her;
In order for the abductor-cum-child to be seen removing himself from the appartment, he had to move from left to right as he did;
In order for him to be able to move as he allegedly did, he had to start from behind the building, from the left (as 'seen' by JT);
In order for him to be able to start from behind the building, he had to have exited through either the shutters or the front door;
As the McCs opted for the jemmied shutters scenario, they had to purpor the front door was unavailable for exit -> locked;

So the locking of the front door with a key -by none other than Gerry himself- was vectored in at first.

This 'version of the truth' capsized immediately upon the PJ finding the key to the front door inside the appartment, where Gerry had apparently left it laying about. Dr Amaral calls this discovery the turning moment in the enquiry.
Interesting one Portia.
I can't find the bit about the key in the book. He mentions 'key' three times in chapter 3, but talks about copies in the safe for the cleaners.
Was this in the book, or an interview. Can you remember ?

An interview, one I read around 3-6 mnths ago. Could have been an older one though.
Dr Amaral finished by remarking: 'so the lying commenced right form the start', or words to that effect.
IIRC the key was found in the kitchen.

Portia see my post on previous page re key and Control Risk Group, at 1.10 pm.

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Re: Antonella Lazzeri changes her tune ?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 07.04.13 14:51

@footballfan333 wrote:@plebgate,

Yes it may not have taken YOU a week, but we are all different!

Dont get me wrong here, im not purporting their innocence, i honestly think that something is afoot solely on the fact of KM 48 unanswered questions. But i do think that honest mistakes can happen under certain extreme circumstances. I find it hard to swallow that they would be lying in bed at night discussing how they had better change this part and that of their story because it didnt fit with key (pardon the pun) parts of the evidence. If the phillpots could figure out that their room was bugged, then surely thay would have had suspicions of something like this happening to them as well no?
Erm footballfan333 are you very new to this or just being a wind-up? The McCanns DID mention 'bugging' (why the innocent would worry about that is beyond me, but.....) Please don't forget, why would they lay in bed talking about it when they had keys to a church, running time, tennis time - in fact if they did anything but sleep in the time they were in the apartment I'd be amazed.
Plus, 'confusion' doesn't wash with me when they were so certain of other things..... winkwink

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

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