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April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by Newintown on 01.05.13 18:04

@PeterMac wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:. SNIPPED IN PLACES Evidence of traces of blood and bone fragment as reported would suggest a brutal disposal of the gruesome and bloodily messy kind that would leave blood traces everywhere on his person and in his home and possessions, that would require chemical to clean away. Any burning down of the ******* would take days and would stink out the whole village. At the hasty speed of his arrest, time was not on his side - at least not for the burning, nor for disposal of body parts outside of his premises without using vehicle. I stand corrected, but far as I know, no evidence was had from his vehicle, nothing reported anyway.
Not necessarily quite right.
1
Tiny set of individual bones in a wood burner stove - police reported the house was very hot when they went in, and smelled of cleaner / bleach.
I have a wood burner and with the flue and the ash box open it roars and shakes, and gets to almost white heat. Any nails left in the wood end up twisted. The ash remains are powder, not cinders. Clothing and cloths or kitchen paper would simply disappear. A crematorium does not smell (usually) and is quite quick, and that is for a whole adult.
2
He was seen coming back off the hills with a black bag.
Foxes, badgers, crows, ravens will take small pieces of food, and leave no trace.

I am not of course talking about any case in particular, just hypothesising in general. We need to be careful

He was also seen with a black bag near the river, which was probably why the police spent so long checking along the river and in the water, but maybe it had already been swept out to sea by then.

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by aiyoyo on 01.05.13 21:52

@PeterMac wrote:
I have a wood burner and with the flue and the ash box open it roars and shakes, and gets to almost white heat. Any nails left in the wood end up twisted. The ash remains are powder, not cinders. Clothing and cloths or kitchen paper would simply disappear. A crematorium does not smell (usually) and is quite quick, and that is for a whole adult.
2
He was seen coming back off the hills with a black bag.
Foxes, badgers, crows, ravens will take small pieces of food, and leave no trace.

I am not of course talking about any case in particular, just hypothesising in general. We need to be careful

OMG, why didn't I think of wood burner....I know of those kinds...(shudder...)
I am also aware purpose built crematorium does it within minutes and is smell proof.
Thanks for reminding me to be careful.

Generally speaking people who went to great length to make a body disappear into thin air without trace is evil beyond belief.
We know of another infamous case where the little body just vanished without trace, and the parents claimed they "knew" what happened with the mum claiming she was there when it happened, but they have not cooperated with Police nor will they ever fessed up.

Just goes to show it pays to be middle-class with connections and ability to amass money at quick speed. And look what money can buy (especially other people's money) - it can buy lawyers and PR who will sell their soul to the devil just for 30 pieces of silver.

I dont believe any lawyers would work pro-bono without monetary motive...pro-bono is just the bait...

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by Guest on 01.05.13 22:57

I don't want to be rude or shocking anyone.
And there's no proof that what I'm saying has any relation with the present case.
I just know that butchers can very quickly chop up an animal, especially a small one, say a lamb.
I also know, that if one puts fresh meat out in the open in a wild environment, it won't take more than a couple of hours to have been devoured completely. What with foxes, badgers, rats, and the likes.
Bones will also be devoured and bones will also burn in a hot fire, yet will leave small traces of the original material. DNA evidence may be difficult to extract from that.
Any blood a butcher may have spilt during his work may have been contaminated. And DNA analysis, if any, may be inconclusive.

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by PeterMac on 02.05.13 8:00

Châtelaine wrote:I don't want to be rude or shocking anyone.
And there's no proof that what I'm saying has any relation with the present case.
I just know that butchers can very quickly chop up an animal, especially a small one, say a lamb.
I also know, that if one puts fresh meat out in the open in a wild environment, it won't take more than a couple of hours to have been devoured completely. What with foxes, badgers, rats, and the likes.
Bones will also be devoured and bones will also burn in a hot fire, yet will leave small traces of the original material. DNA evidence may be difficult to extract from that.
Any blood a butcher may have spilt during his work may have been contaminated. And DNA analysis, if any, may be inconclusive.

Didn't he also have a dog ?

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by aiyoyo on 02.05.13 9:57

At one stage in another topic 'pig' was discussed.
I was shocked to learn that hungry pigs would devour just about anything, including things with embedded bones, and do a clean job of it leaving no trace.

Not sure whether dog can do as clean a job as pig. Generally I thought dog can't and won't grind down bone.

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by jozi on 02.05.13 11:13

Châtelaine wrote:I don't want to be rude or shocking anyone.
And there's no proof that what I'm saying has any relation with the present case.
I just know that butchers can very quickly chop up an animal, especially a small one, say a lamb.
I also know, that if one puts fresh meat out in the open in a wild environment, it won't take more than a couple of hours to have been devoured completely. What with foxes, badgers, rats, and the likes.
Bones will also be devoured and bones will also burn in a hot fire, yet will leave small traces of the original material. DNA evidence may be difficult to extract from that.
Any blood a butcher may have spilt during his work may have been contaminated. And DNA analysis, if any, may be inconclusive.

I do think he worked as a butcher at one time. sure I heard it mentioned or am I wrong ? Anyway he has admitted to seeing and being with her, I don't think he will come out smelling of roses now but wonder what his defense team has to say about the bones and blood found in his house.

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by Guest on 02.05.13 11:19

@aiyoyo wrote: [...] Not sure whether dog can do as clean a job as pig. Generally I thought dog can't and won't grind down bone.
***
Who told you that?

I could tell you stories about dogs and bones ...

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by PeterMac on 02.05.13 11:35

Châtelaine wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote: [...] Not sure whether dog can do as clean a job as pig. Generally I thought dog can't and won't grind down bone.
***
Who told you that? I could tell you stories about dogs and bones ...
My dogs will eat a complete ham bone a foot long and with a two inch head of femur in about half an hour. One each.

In any event the bone was discovered in the stove, and he had a boning knife which was also in the stove, half burned.
He worked at an abattoir.
Shocking to contemplate, but tells the jury what they need to know.
Under the circumstances it is hardly likely that he will make a full and frank confession.

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by aiyoyo on 02.05.13 18:48

Not looking good for him anyway; not after he'd admitted she's dead because his car ran over her, and that amnesia has suddenly seized up his memory that he couldn't remember anything after that.

Either he's to be medically examined for any underlying mental problem or there is no explanation for his bizzare story.

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by sammyc on 02.05.13 21:42

Looks like Bridger and his legal team will push for 'the diminished responsibilty' angle. Absolute tripe, he knew what he was doing and he knows what happened to April, IMO of course.

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by PeterMac on 03.05.13 9:21

Have just seen the photos of the inside of the house. The wood burner is a large one with glass front door and an 8 inch vertical flue.
exactly like mine. Pull the ash can out a fraction at the bottom and it roars and shakes, and becomes extremely frightening.
Nothing survives, except large nails, which as posted before, are bent out of shape.

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by Guest on 03.05.13 10:23

Inside Mark Bridger's cottage: Skull fragments in the stove, blood cleaned off the walls - jurors shown rooms where police forensic team discovered April's DNA



Even in the brilliant sunshine Mark Bridger's white washed cottage was a dark, depressing place to be. The blood had long since dried, and everything connected to that night was 60 miles away in evidence bags or captured on police photographs. The one thing everyone knew about Mount Pleasant Cottage was that this was where April Jones (pictured inset left) is said to have been taken when her innocent young life was snatched away. The jury were taken by coach to the home of Bridger (inset right) in Machynlleth, Mid-Wales, and led through the rooms where the five-year-old may have been murdered

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.htm

How convenient he should have a laps of memory, how many in history have tried this ploy and got away with it by being be sent to a Secure Mental Hospital? To me they are devious, cunning, and evil, they know what they have done and how they are going to deal with it

Listening and readiing about the trial is very disturbing and upsetting. How that child must have suffered before her death.

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by Guest on 03.05.13 10:30

It has been said that on the day Mark Bridger (allegedly) murdered 5-year-old April Jones, he had been watching a cartoon video of a girl being molested, attacked or raped by an adult.

That appears to be yet another illustration of the powerful effect on the human mind of what people watch.

Wasn't the same or similar the case with the man (Vincent Tabak) who murdered Joanna Yeates? - he had been watching a video of a brutal attack on a woman, I believe, in fact he had a collection, didn't he?

People commit mass shootings after watching videos and footage of the same sort of thing?

Watching child sexual abuse on the internet leads some watchers to go on to commit actual crimes

Is it not time to clamp down brutally on those who churn out this depraved material?

The Coalition government is going soft on Google and others who allow this filth to be seen; they refuse to take action against internet giants who circulate this utterly vile material

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by jozi on 03.05.13 10:33

@aiyoyo wrote:Not looking good for him anyway; not after he'd admitted she's dead because his car ran over her, and that amnesia has suddenly seized up his memory that he couldn't remember anything after that.

Either he's to be medically examined for any underlying mental problem or there is no explanation for his bizzare story.


Wonder why he admitted he ran over her ? She was seen getting into his car voluntarily by her friend and she had not been run over then. Did she at some point get out of his car and try to run away ?

I can't see any way he could have run over her accidentally ?

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by Guest on 03.05.13 10:37

@jozi wrote:Wonder why he admitted he ran over her?
He knew the police were on to him. This pathetic liar and monster tried to lie his way out of it. The claim that "I ran over her and then can't remember what happened" is right up there with other notable attempts at 'cover stories'

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by jozi on 03.05.13 11:14

MJC wrote:
@jozi wrote:Wonder why he admitted he ran over her?
He knew the police were on to him. This pathetic liar and monster tried to lie his way out of it. The claim that "I ran over her and then can't remember what happened" is right up there with other notable attempts at 'cover stories'

Yes to account for the blood in his house so he said he ran over her but I can't see that tale helping him out as she got into the car before she was injured ?

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by PeterMac on 03.05.13 11:38

And in any event the vehicle was examined and there no trace either outside of an accident, or inside of blood etc.

But perhaps the forensic scientists were "notoriously unreliable" !

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by Guest on 03.05.13 12:52

A little girl wishing to stop out and play for a few extra minutes as the days were drawing shorter.

I don't know where I would find the strength to face what this entire community of people do at this time. I'm truly at a loss to comprehend the barbaric nature of this act. Family, friends and children, police, court officials, jury members alike.

And special thoughts for the children today who are giving evidence by video link.


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Mother looked everywhere

Post by PeterMac on 03.05.13 16:19

http://news.sky.com/story/1086492/april-jones-frantic-mum-searched-in-bins
"I immediately went over and asked April's friend what she had seen. I was told that April had got into a car with a man and he had driven off."
Mrs Jones called the police straight away. She said: "I went out and searched around the estate, everywhere I could think of. I even looked in the bins."
In his statement, Paul Jones, 41, said: "We rang the police and Coral went out to search. I felt so helpless. I went to speak to April's friend who said something about a van.
That is what the mother of an abducted child does.

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by aiyoyo on 03.05.13 17:05

It seems the two girls who rejected MB's invite for sleepover had a lucky escape.
It goes to show statistics is not wrong that crimes against children are mostly committed by family members, family friends, or person/s known to the child.
I wonder why MB:s children were with him on the night of the April's fate because wasn't it reported he also attended teacher/parent meeting at April's school where his child also attends.

If proven guilty, he and those paedo**** celebrities and TV personalities should be shipped out to a primitive and isolated island, along with parents who admitted to having left their child alone in the dark in a foreign country, and they should be left on the island to devour one another because they all have one thing in common - crime against children. They would feel right at home in company with shared interest.
Porridge at taxpayers expense will be too good for them.

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by aiyoyo on 03.05.13 17:06

@PeterMac wrote:http://news.sky.com/story/1086492/april-jones-frantic-mum-searched-in-bins
"I immediately went over and asked April's friend what she had seen. I was told that April had got into a car with a man and he had driven off."
Mrs Jones called the police straight away. She said: "I went out and searched around the estate, everywhere I could think of. I even looked in the bins."
In his statement, Paul Jones, 41, said: "We rang the police and Coral went out to search. I felt so helpless. I went to speak to April's friend who said something about a van.
That is what the mother of an abducted child does.

Quite right, only if it is a genuine abduction, not faked one

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by Guest on 03.05.13 17:24

From the BBC. April Jones was FIVE years old.

The jury in the trial of a man
accused of murdering five-year-old April Jones has heard of her parents' last
moments with her before she disappeared.

A statement from April's mother Coral read out in Mold Crown Court said April
had wanted to go out to play but her parents had initially refused.


They gave in after she had a "little bit of a tantrum", said her mother.

Mark Bridger, 47, from Ceinws, Powys, denies abducting and murdering April
who disappeared on 1 October 2012.

April went missing while playing with friends near her home on the Bryn-Y-Gog
estate in Machynlleth.

"At about 7.20 I wanted April to come back home," said Mrs Jones.

"She had been out for about 20 minutes at that time and it was getting dark
and a little colder."




April Jones's mother said she was positive her daughter would
never have got in Mark Bridger's car

She sent April's brother to look for her and within a short time he "came
running home and he was in a hysterical state".

Her son told her a friend had seen April getting into a car with a man and
"had gone". Mrs Jones immediately called the police.

"I searched around the estate everywhere I could think of. I even looked in
the bins," she said.

Mrs Jones, who made her statement on 8 October, said April was "aware of strangers" and knew not to go off with anybody she did not know.

"I can't understand why she would go into someone's car that she doesn't
know," she added.

"I would describe her as a happy-go-lucky little girl, she does play up
sometimes like any child of her age."

The court heard how Mr Bridger and Mrs Jones crossed paths 17 years ago when
she played darts at a pub in Machynlleth.

They were not friends but she would acknowledge him if they passed, jurors
heard.

She remembers Mr Bridger helping her start her car several years ago and he
also used to be a friend of her husband Paul's.

The jury heard how Mr Bridger requested to be friends with one of April's
half-sisters on Facebook but Mrs Jones had advised her to refuse.

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by Guest on 08.05.13 13:30

April Jones case: Coral Jones breaks down over 999 call



8 May 2013 Last updated at 12:57



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22434502

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by Guest on 13.05.13 17:27

April Jones: Trail Of Blood In Suspect's Home


Heavy bloodstains matching the DNA of the schoolgirl are found at the home of her alleged killer, a jury hears.


A trail of blood matching the DNA of April Jones was found around the home of the man suspected of killing April Jones, a court has been told.

Giving evidence at Mold Crown Court, a forensic scientist said DNA discovered in blood at the home of alleged murderer Mark Bridger had a one in a billion chance of belonging to anyone other than the five-year-old.

http://news.sky.com/story/1090288/april-jones-trail-of-blood-in-suspects-home

I found it hard to listen to when I heard what had been said in court, although her parent's were probably told what may be said and shown, they must have found it deeply distressing to actually hear it in a courtroom.

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Re: April Jones. Search to end + Mark Bridger trial starts today 29/4/2013

Post by littlepixie on 13.05.13 20:08

I know what you mean. My O/H and I were only talking today about the details that were released in the Press regarding the Tia Sharp case.
He was horrified that certain information about what happened to that little girl had been made Public and felt that it shouldn't have been as it robbed her of dignity.
I remembered that it was years after the death of Lesley Anne Downey that any details of what had happened to her became Public. We all knew the Moors Murderers were guilty and we didnt have the details.

It must be so hard for those who are actually in the Courtroom. I have a relative who has dealt with horrific cases. I worry sometimes about the affect it can have on them. They are trained to keep what they see and hear to themselves so keep it all inside. It must be very hard for them.

I can't begin to think how it must be for the families having to listen to what has happened to their loved one in minute detail.

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