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Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by aiyoyo on 31.03.13 11:05

Better to read his prepared scripts, in case his tongue gets twisted from having to lie.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 31.03.13 11:33

@aquila wrote:Hi Kahlgragar,

I am always a little concerned about opening links. Would it be possible for you to post your images onto the forum?

Sorry aquila. It's Khalgregar by the way :)



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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 31.03.13 11:43

@aiyoyo wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:If you look at the very first video available, you'll see that [IMO] she doesn't look grieving or shocked. She looks afraid, frightened & defensive ... You'll also see that [IMO] there's no love lost between the two of them. I still cringe when I see GM put his arm around her shoulder - as if it's a cue on the paper he's reading from - and withdrawing it straight away again. The same goes when KM is - also reading from a paper - doing a televised "appeal" on television. He pinches her shoulder when she's "losing" her text and at the end of that [IMO] cringeworthy performance, the way he lays his head against her shoulder .... [where's the emoticon for "shudder" ?]

I agree with you.
Kate & Gerry relationship seems far from rosy pre the incident. Post incident it could only have gotten worst if anything, but they'd to appear to stick together for the sake of their lie. Their body language tells a story.

The picture of them at their first conference tells the true story - their faces reflect raw and pure FEAR, not shocked or devastation or even grief, but true unadulterated FEAR not for Maddie, but for themselves. In that pic they looked momentarily vulnerable and frightened to death of what's to come for them, as in pure fear of being found out for their deed. The terror as displayed on their face is not that of an unconscious fear of unknown factors, but that of conscious fear of the known factors they held in their innermost chambers.


I'm not sure how we can differentiate between unconscious fear of unknown factors and conscious fear of known factors, but on the whole I agree with you. There are lots of indications throughout the holiday that the relationship was not going well, perhaps nearly at an end. There are also indications that Maddie was not sleeping well. In my opinion, the combination of these two factors led to a tragedy that I still think happened on 3rd May, but could just as easily have happened on the missing 2nd May.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by russiandoll on 31.03.13 16:24

Did the couple arrive in PdL with suntans? I know there does not need to be hot sunny weather for skin to tan, but looking at that May photo and esp Gerry, that is quite a tan for a week when the weather was mostly dull and not very warm.

Just thinking aloud..... message to Kahlgregar, thanks for posting the creche records in the way you did..very helpful.
The anomalies in the creche records started morning 29th, so something happened before 2nd imo. What do you make of G signing in the Naylor girl and not signing his own name, but forging her father's name?

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Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by suzyjohnson on 31.03.13 19:11

Chatelaine, Aiyoyo and Peter Mac, yes the McCann's do look very frightened in that photo.

'............, There are lots of indications throughout the holiday that the relationship was not going well, perhaps nearly at an end. There are also indications that Maddie was not sleeping well. In my opinion, the combination of these two factors led to a tragedy that I still think happened on 3rd May, but could just as easily have happened on the missing 2nd May ............' (Quoted from Kahlgregar)

Yes, Kahlgregar I agree with you. GM strikes me as the type of father who, although he might be fond of his children, doesn't actually want to spend any time with them. As well as sending them to kids club everyday and leaving them in the apartment while they went out every night, it was considered too far to take them all to the Millenium for their meals, and didn't they go on a shopping trip one afternoon that was described as a bit of a nightmare, even though the children were just being children? And there was a trip down to the beach one day which lasted only a short time I think. And that happy face on the pre-holiday video.

I'm not certain though, whether GM is guilty of everything he is accused of, or whether he just appears guilty because of these traits (there plenty of fathers, and mothers for that matter, who are not particularly interested in their children) I don't think it's the same with Kate though, perhaps she wanted children much more than Gerry did?


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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Guest on 31.03.13 20:50

I think you have to also factor in the alcohol. Drinks about an hour before the tapas, probably the best part of a bottle and on an empty stomach and a lot of alcohol consumed during their nights. If Kate's tale about the spare room is right then it has to be a direct result of the wine she had consumed.

But my money is on that very first night, I think perhaps that's the only night the children were alone in their various apartments.



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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Monty Heck on 01.04.13 11:49

Finn Yesterday at 8:50 pm

I think you have to also factor in the alcohol. Drinks about an hour before the tapas, probably the best part of a bottle and on an empty stomach and a lot of alcohol consumed during their nights. If Kate's tale about the spare room is right then it has to be a direct result of the wine she had consumed.


What is intriguing is the idea of parents of 3 small children having the luxury of an hour's leisure to drink and relax prior to their evening out. My own experience of such families is that the hour prior to leaving for a night out tends to be rather more chaotic, with parents rushing to dress at the last minute because offspring have a tendency at such times to be less than co-operative, to put it mildly. Frankly, this beditime tale of bath, biscuits, milk, stories and bed like a well oiled machine with 3 youngsters of that age, followed by around an hour's parental relaxation is very hard indeed to accept as being a true account. Children tired by "the intense activities of the day" are more often than not at their naughtiest, not meek and pliant. Throw in the scenario that one parent decided to shower while in sole charge of 3 very much awake, albeit excessively tired small children when there was clearly ample time to do so once her partner had returned and credibility is strained beyond breaking point. There is clearly far more to the story of this crucial last few hours and what has been left out is possbily most important of all. It is frustrating that Grange after all this time seems unwilling to question the testimony of the group to get to the truth of what happened but it seems that hope is as distant now as it was when the McCs fled after being made arguido. This aspect of the investigation is surely deserving of the most intense scrutiny but the review instead appears to be looking in every conceivable direction but this one.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by PeterMac on 01.04.13 12:22

And was not the order of events bath, toilet, then teeth cleaning, and THEN milk and biscuits in bed ?
Quite apart from the idea of giving a young child milk and biscuits last thing, containing lots of short sugars to get it hyper again, why would you not clean teeth afterwards ? As you say, it is all too 'Disney' perfect, perfect family, perfect children, perfect behaviour, lots of little 'friends', saccharine sweet and extremely unlikely, and the bubble burst by other members of the family "She was a screamer, that one", and tales of getting out of bed, and marching around in the early hours,

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by aquila on 01.04.13 14:17

Take a look at the findmadeleine.com website and click onto 'please watch and share our video' and give your opinions. I'm gobsmacked.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by PeterMac on 01.04.13 14:38

(Mercifully it didn't work within the website but did open in Youtube.)
Disney drivel.
But some of the comments are good
"We will NEVER give up." Quite so Kate and Gerry. We will NEVER give up until the truth is known, however long that takes, or however many old aged pensioners are sent to prison, or however many millions of pounds are sucked out of the "Fund".

"8 months ago
We will never give up on Madeleine, never. I know that she'll be home soon, safe and sound." RONG !
"7 months ago
I will always believe, Madeleine. YOu will be reunited with your family soon!" RONG !

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by aquila on 01.04.13 15:05

@PeterMac wrote:(Mercifully it didn't work within the website but did open in Youtube.)
Disney drivel.
But some of the comments are good
"We will NEVER give up." Quite so Kate and Gerry. We will NEVER give up until the truth is known, however long that takes, or however many old aged pensioners are sent to prison, or however many millions of pounds are sucked out of the "Fund".

"8 months ago
We will never give up on Madeleine, never. I know that she'll be home soon, safe and sound." RONG !
"7 months ago
I will always believe, Madeleine. YOu will be reunited with your family soon!" RONG !

PeterMac, when I open the link within the findmadeleine.com website it is a youtube video but doesn't direct me to youtube.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by aquila on 01.04.13 16:25

This is a youtube find Maddie vignette.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWeNKACwQtI

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by aiyoyo on 01.04.13 16:55

"We will NEVER give up."

Strange that they did not specific what it is that they will never give up.
Likely they will NEVER give up making money on Maddie, and they believe only they have exclusive right to that.

I read they alienated themselves with UK Justice Forum (a forum with facebook followers) when they set CR on the forum owner asking him to remove from their site the link to the serialisation of 'madeleine', citing copyright infringement issue. Once again proving money is priority over spreading the words. The forum owner got pissed off and dumped the Mccanns.

Imagine asking a pro site to pull the link - is that how they will NEVER give up on Madeleine? Nay.


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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by PeterMac on 01.04.13 17:04

@aquila wrote:
PeterMac, when I open the link within the findmadeleine.com website it is a youtube video but doesn't direct me to youtube.
If you right click you get an option to copy the url, then paste that direct into a new window and it opens in youtube.
Or it does for me.
Some interesting comments there too. Edited by a real pro.

If you can bear it, it is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hJptw2f50-0

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by aquila on 01.04.13 17:10

A 37k website, a 1 minute video with a few pics of Madeleine and a couple of pics of Kate in running gear with a Robbie Williams song.

eta. this is what I get when I click onto the findmadeleine.com site without right clicking for more info on youtube.
I'm gobsmacked. No other updates. Nothing about Madeleine. Nothing since December last year. Jeez, this website has cobwebs.

buy our bewk that's what jumps at ya!

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by aquila on 01.04.13 17:31

When Madeleine's mother runs in the London Marathon will she have a photograph of Madeleine as she might look in the age progression photos (paid for by other people)?. Will Madeleine's mother have her own website (paid for by other people) on her running vest? or will Madeleine's mother choose to run in a vest with Madeleine aged 3 and write updates on the website (paid for by other people) about how happy she is to be supported and how much it means to give to charity?

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by PeterMac on 01.04.13 17:36

Since Madeleine will be 10, she might even be running herself. Perhaps that is part of the search.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Monty Heck on 01.04.13 18:23

Peter Mac, the being put to bed on 3 May story is indeed Disney-esque but despite this no-one in authority seems currently to have any inclination to investigate further. Instead of starting at the very beginning and examining the T9's testimony with somewhat more rigour than has previously been the case, millions are being spent by Grange to translate and review the joint Portuguese and English investigation itself, in order to establish whether anything "has been missed". By looking here, there and everywhere but at the core group of witnesses, Grange is giving the impression that it's purpose is nothing other than to report (if it ever does) that there were flaws in that investigation. It's to be hoped that there are not also flaws in this review however that does appear increasingly unlikely.

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Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by suzyjohnson on 01.04.13 19:32

My view of the SY investigation is that they will look at all the evidence available but I suspect they won't say that they suspect the McCanns (if they do) unless they can actually prove anything for the obvious reason that if they announced that they were suspects then the couple could be at serious risk of being attacked, and it would cost a lot of money to give them police protection.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Guest on 01.04.13 19:43

What about putting them behind bars?

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Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Monty Heck on 01.04.13 19:55

suzyjohnson Today at 7:32 pm




My view of the SY investigation is that they will look at all the evidence available but I suspect they won't say that they suspect the McCanns (if they do) unless they can actually prove anything for the obvious reason that if they announced that they were suspects then the couple could be at serious risk of being attacked, and it would cost a lot of money to give them police protection.

Thank you, that does appear increasingly likely and of course no report could say that the McCs may be responsible - if there were evidence of that, charges would have to be made without doubt. However, my concern is that Grange, for all the time and cash being expended is a worthless, paper exercise if it does not include within its scope an examination of the threadbare and at times scarecely credible accounts given by the core witness group. Not only are the stories full of holes, there is a dearth of explanation for some incredibly bad "group decisions". Starting by asking how so many people could be so confident that they could leave their childen alone for hours on end without waking up might be a very good place to begin!

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Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by suzyjohnson on 01.04.13 20:10

Parapono - SY couldn't keep the McCann's in custody unless they were going to arrest and charge them (and even then they probably would grant bail) and they wouldn't bring charges unless they thought they could prove the case in court.

MontyHeck - Hopefully, a lot of the money spent by SY would be on investigating child trafficking etc across Europe. It's possible this may not benefit Madeleine, but could potentially yield a lot of information which would benefit other children in the future, and may even shed some light on other missing child cases, hope so anyway.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Hobs on 01.04.13 20:26

A quick request please.



Can any of you remember/find when the gruesome twosome first said they would never give up looking/never give up on Madeleine please and thanks in advance

Hugs and happy Easter

Hobs xx

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by PeterMac on 01.04.13 22:41

Always remember that SY only have powers for offences committed within England.
So you are left with the "Fund", but not a lot else.
Except that now it includes potential "Perjury by proxy, false imprisonment by proxy, malicious prosecution by proxy" and lots of other totally invented offences, which don't exist, but probably should.
Don't youy agree, C-R !

c.f. Al Capone !

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Peneda Geres on 01.04.13 22:50

[quote="PeterMac"]Always remember that SY only have powers for offences committed within England.
So you are left with the "Fund", but not a lot else.
Except that now it includes potential "Perjury by proxy, false imprisonment by proxy, malicious prosecution by proxy" and lots of other totally invented offences, which don't exist, but probably should.
Don't youy agree, C-R !

Peter, I may be wrong, but don't we have a crimes abroad policy here in the uk?

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