The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hello!

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

When posting please be mindful that this forum is primarily about the death of a three year old girl.

Regards,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Page 5 of 8 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Truthmustout on 29.03.13 18:12

@Newintown wrote:
@Khalgregar wrote:
@Newintown wrote:
@Khalgregar wrote:My name is Martin Bennett. I am 41 years old. I have two children, aged 13 and 10. I live in March, which is a small town near to Cambridge. I am a games programmer at a large software company.

You can find me on Facebook easily enough.

I am not a plant.

Why didn't you use your real name in the first instance then, sorry, I still don't believe you are who you say, there are just too many coincidences connected to the McCanns in their saga for the past 6 years. You're just one of many.

For a couple of every day doctors who have had a daughter supposedly "abducted" the coincidences just never stop.

Hey? Is newintown your real name? I've been brave enough to put my real name on here, I thought that would demonstrate my openness to you and we could move on.

Well if you weren't worried about us knowing your real name, why didn't you use it in the first place. As for Bennett being your last name, oh, come on, do you think we're that stupid??

You're taking this topic off topic again, Candyfloss's ruler is rearing it's ugly head, I can see it in the distance, so I won't continue.

come on, give the man a rest he is who he says he is. Tony bennett dont own his name and is not the only person in this world having bennett as his last name. I acually dont think he was the one disrupting this topic but made some valid points, like there is no such thing as a memory stick reader. Just a simple fact he points out , how does that make him a troll?
Lets get this topic back to what it was about, namely madeleine on top of the cover.

I would say , taking into consideration that Kate and atleast one of the other tapas9 girls complained about the cold, this apartments would been cold inside. And its not comfortable to lay on top of the cover. As someone mentioned unless she was having a fever or something and for that reason was really hot.
I do remember , im not sure if it is in the witness statements or in Kates book, that Madeleine was really tierede and less more energetich than usuall. Dont remember what night it was . Was she getting sick? Had somethin happened to her earlier that day making her sicker as time went by ? I know if you bump your head and get a concussion, falling a sleep can be dangerouse and sometimes cause death. But as doctors they should have known ? Unless she bumped her head without their knowledge, gave her sedatives, and then she died and they tought it was the sedatives. Who knows what really happened. All I know is that I can not even if I try really hard, believe the abduction theory. Its just to many things not adding up.

All this IMHO ofcourse..

____________________
The tide is turning - justice is coming ! Freedom of speech for all !

Truthmustout

Posts : 128
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-02-08

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Guest on 29.03.13 18:25

Moa-Vanilla wrote:



come on, give the man a rest he is who he says he is. Tony bennett dont own his name and is not the only person in this world having bennett as his last name. I acually dont think he was the one disrupting this topic but made some valid points, like there is no such thing as a memory stick reader. Just a simple fact he points out , how does that make him a troll?
Lets get this topic back to what it was about, namely madeleine on top of the cover.



Thank you Moa-Vanilla, I was about to say the same. Khalgregar has verified who they are. Just because someone doesn't agree wholeheartedly with some here doesn't make them a troll.... please let's get back to the topic.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by plebgate on 29.03.13 18:28

Just one question - verified on facebook, no posts and 2 followers.

plebgate

Posts : 5518
Reputation : 1255
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 29.03.13 18:32

@plebgate wrote:Just one question - verified on facebook, no posts and 2 followers.

No, that's twitter. I set it up a year or so ago and never used it - and forgot about it until admin found it. I'm a facebook person :)

Khalgregar

Posts : 129
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-03-26
Location : Cambridge

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Guest on 29.03.13 18:33

@plebgate wrote:Just one question - verified on facebook, no posts and 2 followers.

He verified his name, address and phone number etc by private message.

Now please let it rest everyone and get back on topic. As it is I'll have to tidy this thread up.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by plebgate on 29.03.13 18:42

@admin wrote:
@plebgate wrote:Just one question - verified on facebook, no posts and 2 followers.

He verified his name, address and phone number etc by private message.

Now please let it rest everyone and get back on topic. As it is I'll have to tidy this thread up.



Marvellous. Welcome Kahlgregar.

plebgate

Posts : 5518
Reputation : 1255
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 30.03.13 0:52

I started this thread because one of the most important questions to ask in an investigation is 'Who saw the victim last'? Can we establish whether the accounts of the witnesses who make this claim are truthful? If there is evidence of deception from these witnesses, then surely further criminal investigation must focus on them.

- GM claims to be the last person to witness MBM alive
- MO manages to not be the last witness, perhaps a trifle conveniently
- KH is not sure of the last moment when she saw MBM

So, to the last sighting:

GM's statement of 4/5/2007:

'Thus, at 9.05 pm, the deponent entered the club, using his key, the door being locked, and went to the children's bedroom and noted that the twins and Madeleine were in perfect condition. He then went to the toilet, where he remained for a few instants, left the apartment,'

GM's statement of 10/5/2007:

'He walked the normal route up to the back door, which being open he only had to slide, and while he was entering the living room, he noticed that the children's bedroom door was not ajar as he had left it but half-way open, which he thought was strange, having then thought that possibly MADELEINE had got up to go to sleep in his bedroom, so as to avoid the noise produced by her siblings. Therefore, he entered the children's bedroom and established visual contact with each of them, checking and he is certain of this, that the three were deeply asleep. He left the children's bedroom returning to place the door how he had already previously described, then went to the bathroom. Everything else was normal, the shutters, curtains and windows closed, very dark, there only being the light that came from the living room.

He adds that he did not enter any other part of the residence, where he was for only two or three minutes, leaving yet again through the back door, that he closed but did not lock. He clarifies that he returned without checking any other couple’s children, even because he had not been asked to do so.'

GM's statement of 7/9/2007:

'When asked at what time he went to check on the children the night Madeleine disappeared, he recalls that this was around 21:04 according to his watch. He remembers that once inside the apartment he was surprised that the door to the children's room was slightly more open than how he had left it when he and Kate left for dinner. However, it could have been Madeleine who had opened the door after waking and getting up, eventually to go to her parents’ room. On this occasion, the three children were lying in their beds asleep, he is sure of this. Moreover, he says that with respect to Madeleine she was in the same position in which he had left her at the beginning of the night. Madeleine was lying down on her left side, completely uncovered, i.e. lying on top of the covers, with the soft toy and blanket, both pink, next to her head; he does not know if they were in the position that can be seen in the photograph attached to the files'

Some points to consider (and when I refer to abduction, I am talking about the alleged abduction):

More and more details are given as time progresses. You have to ask yourself, is this the behaviour of an innocent victim? The level of detail that GM gives seems to be proportional to the trouble that he is facing. If the details of the 10th May and 7th September are true, these were withheld from the police in the 24 hours following the abduction, the time when the information mattered most.

GM thought that the door being half-open was strange. I can understand him thinking it was strange after the abduction took place, but I don't see why he should be surprised at the time, in the slightest. It would be easily explained, GM giving that explanation in both statements - Maddy probably got up. GM is drawing the police's attention to the door, but going too far. He has 'over-egged' this detail. For example, if I go to the toilet and return five minutes later to find that my cup has been magically washed and put back in the cupboard, I don't think 'how strange and surprising' - my mind immediately fills in the blanks and tells me that another person in the house is responsible. If no other person was in the house, then it would be strange and surprising. And back to the evening of 3rd May, if the door is half-open then your mind would surely fill in the blanks and tell you immediately how that happened. GM wants us to form a picture in our heads of him standing there, looking at the door quizzically, rubbing his chin for a second, and then going 'Ah, must have been Maddie, not strange or surprising at all!'.

Maddy was lying exactly how he left her, but only in the last statement. This must surely be the natural pairing to the 'half-open door' detail. GM wants the police to 'put 2 and 2 together', and does not supply the '4' himself. But maybe this is another detail that is a 'detail too far'. If GM was surprised by the half-open door, then why wasn't he surprised that Maddy had gotten herself back into the same position that he had left her? This 2 and 2 don't really add up. Maddy being in exactly the same position should have made him worry more about the half-open door. It would be easy to say 'I found the half-open door strange and surprising, because Maddy was still in the position that I left her; foolishly I ignored it.' But that is not what he says. He doesn't make any attempt to connect the two. It sounds as if he is giving this detail to cement the idea that there must have been an abductor, and for no other reason. It would have been of great importance on the 4th May, but it is not mentioned at all at that time.

Maddy was totally uncovered. This is the detail that breaks the suspension of disbelief. It was a cold night, it was cold in the apartment (as confirmed by Kate). You just don't leave your child uncovered, unless it is very warm, or they have a strong fever. But Gerry would have us believe that he did. And the only reason for this can be, that the bed was unruffled when the police arrived, except for the sheet being pulled very slightly back. This was a detail he had to give, because anything else would have contradicted known evidence. So he must have crossed his fingers, and hoped nobody noticed. This must also be the reason that he didn't provide this detail in the previous two statements, not until he was forced to. Because it stretches credibility beyond its limits.

Of course, Gerry could also have been telling the truth in all three (contradictory) statements.

Khalgregar

Posts : 129
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-03-26
Location : Cambridge

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 30.03.13 2:13

@pennylane wrote:I mentioned earlier in this thread that perhaps Maddie was put in her parents bed to prevent disruption, since she was a notoriously poor sleeper. This could explain the reason Maddie's bed was not slept in. After the crying episode, she may have been lightly sedated, but she still woke and wondered into the living room and climbed on the back of the chair to look out the window for her parents.... and met with a fatal fall....

I'm starting to find it quite unlikely that Maddie slept in any bed in 5A on 3rd May. The unruffled bed-sheets of the bed she was supposed to have slept in indicate that it's very unlikely she slept there. So maybe she slept in the parents' bed, even if just for a while. In that case - and the McCanns must surely have given some thought to forensic evidence - why didn't they just say that she slept there instead? If that was the truth, why not just give the truth, and instead supply a story that was contradicted by the physical evidence? An abductor could just have easily taken Maddie from the parents' room. If I was to make up a story, I would ensure that I didn't fabricate any more than I needed to, because lying is harder than telling the truth, especially when multiple parties are involved.

Khalgregar

Posts : 129
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-03-26
Location : Cambridge

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Snifferdog on 30.03.13 3:56

Hi Khalgregar smilie yes I also do not believe Maddie slept in Apt 5a on the 3rd May either else her DNA would have definitely been found on the bedding.

____________________
“‘Conspiracy stuff’ is now shorthand for unspeakable truth.”
– Gore Vidal

Snifferdog

Posts : 1008
Reputation : 16
Join date : 2012-05-11
Location : here

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by PeterMac on 30.03.13 7:40

And for clarity, here is the bed.

Bed under the window scragged up, allegedly from the previous night - not pulled straight by Kate when she got up.
Bed on the wall by the door immaculately made, and turned down in hotel fashion.
And incidentally TWO little pink things.

Red blanket on the bed and a pink thing higher up, and a pink thing on the chest of drawers.

____________________


PeterMac
Researcher

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 149
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by PeterMac on 30.03.13 7:44

And whilst we are back on the subject, IF madeleine had been in the recovery position on top of the covers, why, within 1 minute and 40 seconds, would the sheets have been turned down like that .

____________________


PeterMac
Researcher

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 149
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by pennylane on 30.03.13 8:33

@Khalgregar wrote:
@pennylane wrote:I mentioned earlier in this thread that perhaps Maddie was put in her parents bed to prevent disruption, since she was a notoriously poor sleeper. This could explain the reason Maddie's bed was not slept in. After the crying episode, she may have been lightly sedated, but she still woke and wondered into the living room and climbed on the back of the chair to look out the window for her parents.... and met with a fatal fall....

I'm starting to find it quite unlikely that Maddie slept in any bed in 5A on 3rd May. The unruffled bed-sheets of the bed she was supposed to have slept in indicate that it's very unlikely she slept there. So maybe she slept in the parents' bed, even if just for a while. In that case - and the McCanns must surely have given some thought to forensic evidence - why didn't they just say that she slept there instead? If that was the truth, why not just give the truth, and instead supply a story that was contradicted by the physical evidence? An abductor could just have easily taken Maddie from the parents' room. If I was to make up a story, I would ensure that I didn't fabricate any more than I needed to, because lying is harder than telling the truth, especially when multiple parties are involved.

Morning Khalgregar

I agree the truth can be more prudent, and I'm sure they would change a lot of what they told the police if they could do it over, but they were hustling on the hoof, and may have felt it unwise to speak of isolating Maddie, thus opening up a can of worms re poor sleeping habits and sedation, etc. Of course that is precisely what came out in the end, much to their dismay. If the crying episode on the 1st was the beginning of the end of what was to be some very poor choices by the parents, they may have been trying desperately to steer the PJ away from a series of events. Obviously they regretted many things they said because they rewrote history on several parts of their story....

As you say though, there is a viable possibility that Maddie did not sleep in 5A at all.

pennylane

Posts : 2529
Reputation : 1190
Join date : 2009-12-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by suzyjohnson on 30.03.13 9:24

I doubt that Madeleine slept in the bed at all on 3rd May, and I am inclined to agree with Khalgregar that something happened earlier that evening. I think the two main probabilities would be -

Either that MM had an accident whilst KM was taking a shower. Or that she was given sedatives and then had an accident as they took effect prior to GM and KM going to the Tapas. Or both of the above. The following evidence / comments support this theory

1) Following the crying heard by Mrs Fenn on the Tues night they decided to give MM a sedative
2) Did they increase the dose as a result of MM's crying comment on the Thurs morning?
3) DP says he saw the children being put to bed at 6.30pm (rogatory interviews) How, from the patio door?
4) Also read somewhere (GM or Clarence quote) that they say they wouldn't have had enough time for a cover up
5) GM and KM had already decided not to go to the play area that evening, so why did GM send DP round to help KM?
6) Did KM contact GM at tennis (or send DP back with a message / or did GM send DP instead of going back to 5A himself) but did GM ignore any message until 7.20pm when he left the tennis court (not that KM necessarily told DP why she needed GM back)
7) Were the twins left to play in the bedroom whilst they dealt with a cover up, hence the messed up bed by the window?
8) MM's bed looks as though it hasn't been slept in and it also looks as though the curtains had never been drawn on 3rd May (PJ photos)
9) Does the accident theory explain why KM went for a bath when GM returned even though she had only just had a shower?
10) The evidence of the dogs (an accident before 8pm would be enough time needed for the dogs)
11) GM's comment that at some point MM was lying in the recovery position
12) Other evidence that MM did not sleep very well, that GM said he thought she might have gone through to their room, or that MM had a star chart for staying in bed




____________________


suzyjohnson

Posts : 1034
Reputation : 165
Join date : 2013-03-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 30.03.13 10:20

@PeterMac wrote:And whilst we are back on the subject, IF madeleine had been in the recovery position on top of the covers, why, within 1 minute and 40 seconds, would the sheets have been turned down like that .

Maybe it was the abductor having a bit of a laugh? ;-)

My guess, is that someone was responsible for messing the bed up to back their story, someone who did a really bad job of it. It looks to me like the person who 'messed' up the bed was a little OCD.

Khalgregar

Posts : 129
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-03-26
Location : Cambridge

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Nina on 30.03.13 10:32

We can see the pink items by the pillow, the blanket and the cuddle cat and how small the blanket looks for it to have been covering Madeleine. There is also mention of cellular blankets in the cots for the twins. Do hotels/apartments provide these or do you have to take them with you on the holiday? There is so little evidence of children in that apartment apart from a jacket that Amelia wore and some shoes. No toys, books, balls. I find that most strange. Yet in the parent's room it is quite cluttered. Surely it is normally the childrens areas that are cluttered and the parent's area tidier.
Not really important, just an observation.
And hello Khalgregar, and welcome. I am very interested in your take on things.

____________________
Not one more cent from me.

Nina

Posts : 2694
Reputation : 237
Join date : 2011-06-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by PeterMac on 30.03.13 10:34

@Khalgregar wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:And whilst we are back on the subject, IF madeleine had been in the recovery position on top of the covers, why, within 1 minute and 40 seconds, would the sheets have been turned down like that .
Maybe it was the abductor having a bit of a laugh? ;-)
My guess, is that someone was responsible for messing the bed up to back their story, someone who did a really bad job of it. It looks to me like the person who 'messed' up the bed was a little OCD.
And that was the bed on which one might have expected to find footprints. except that it is the right hand pane, as you look at it from inside the room, which opens, so you would have expected the right hand curtain to be pulled back and the wicker chair to have been trodden on or moved . . .

But only if you believe anything they said at the start. And remember that much later they realised that the story about the window and the shutters did not hold water, and admitted that it was a "red herring".
from the McCanns own website.
“Lisbon 14th January 2010
There are few points which have been raised in the last few days which I would like
to address specifically:
Abduction theory: For us, there is only the abduction theory possible because we
were not involved in Madeleine's disappearance and we know Madeleine did not
wander off by herself. It is obvious and right that the police should consider other
theories initially.
The window: I described to the police officers exactly what I found that night, as it
was and is highly relevant and I knew that every little detail could be helpful in
finding my daughter which is our only aim. The window which is a ground floor
window was completely open and is large enough for a person to easily climb
through it. Whether it had been opened for this purpose remains unknown. It could
of course have been opened by the perpetrator when inside the apartment as a
potential escape route or left open as a 'red herring'.


____________________


PeterMac
Researcher

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 149
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by pennylane on 30.03.13 10:41

@ suzy, re #2.

I don't believe Maddie's comments re the crying episode ever happened..... and certainly not 2 mornings later, on the ill-fated 3rd. Rather the disturbing occurrence as overheard by upstairs neighbour Mrs Fenn, was acutely threatening to their facade, hence the lame efforts to neutralise it, and change the date....

Personally I believe those terror stricken sounds of an infant crying on the night of 1st, set off a chain of dire events that eventually proved lethal!

pennylane

Posts : 2529
Reputation : 1190
Join date : 2009-12-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by aiyoyo on 30.03.13 10:43

@sharonl wrote:Extract from Kates statement 6 September 2007

They also kissed Madeleine, who was already lying down. She was under the covers, she thinks, because it was a bit cold. She normally clutched the soft toy and if she wasn’t holding it then it was next to her, on the left. She remained lying down on her left side, with the soft toy and a pink blanket, which she thinks was covering her. The twins were laid down on their backs, covered with open weave blankets. She says that she doesn’t know if the children were in the same positions when they left the apartment.

Extract from Gerry's statement 7 September 2007

Moreover, he says that with respect to Madeleine she was in the same position in which he had left her at the beginning of the night. Madeleine was lying down on her left side, completely uncovered, i.e. lying on top of the covers, with the soft toy and blanket, both pink, next to her head; he does not know if they were in the position that can be seen in the photograph attached to the files

It's appalling that a pair of well educated with above average IQ (obviously) parents and who are doctors at that cannot be coherent about their recount of their recollection of the last time they saw their missing daughter, whom they claimed they collectively put her to bed, read to her, kissed her goodnight and all that.
That said, Kate's recount concerning the twins is perfectly fine; showing in fact she can be very coherent. She remembers the twins were covered, she even remembers they were covered in weaved blankets. The stark contrast between her recollection for Maddie & the twins says something about their manipulation of the situation.

Her recollection for the twins was concise and precise, while her recollection pertaining to Maddie was all over the shops. It is simply not believable that a mum can forget such simple thing as whether she gave her daughter the cuddling toy to clutch or whether she left it next to her head on the night she went missing. That should have been something etched onto her memory, yet this mum recollection of it is sloppily vague. According to Gerry's recount, cuddle cat and the blanket were placed next to Maddie's head, how he expects people to believe an abductor managed to snatch and made off with Maddie in such haste in the dark without knocking things over or displacing the cuddle cat and blanket from its position on the pillow right next to Maddie is somewhat quite difficult to comprehend.

The likelihood of that vastly different recollection, I believe, is not down to selective amnesia, rather they did not put Maddie to bed on May3rd thus nothing from the memory to draw from. It was a blank slate and they'd to fabricate the story as they go along. For that not to happen it would mean Maddie was no longer alive on that night in question JMO.


aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 319
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by aiyoyo on 30.03.13 10:47

@PeterMac wrote:And whilst we are back on the subject, IF madeleine had been in the recovery position on top of the covers, why, within 1 minute and 40 seconds, would the sheets have been turned down like that .

And, how come cuddle cat was found by Kate on the pillow, when their family member had told the Press the abductor left CC on the ledge.

aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 319
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by PeterMac on 30.03.13 10:55

@aiyoyo wrote:The likelihood of that vastly different recollection, I believe, is not down to selective amnesia, rather they did not put Maddie to bed on May3rd thus nothing from the memory to draw from. It was a blank slate and they'd to fabricate the story as they go along. For that not to happen it would mean Maddie was no longer alive on that night in question JMO.
Very perceptive. They seem to be trying to think of things that "would have happened" but having not rehearsed them in sufficient detail between themselves, start to make mistakes. And then try to retro-fit, and add detail, which simply compounds the situation, - slamming doors, whooshing curtains and so on, without mentioning that the whole apartment must have been freezing cold, since the window and shutters would have been open for at least an hour, and everyone was complaining and collecting extra sweaters, and commenting specifically how cold and windy it was.

They are trapped.
Only the whole truth can help them.

____________________


PeterMac
Researcher

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 149
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Guest on 30.03.13 10:56

Also please take note that Kate says the twins were left on their backs.

When Fiona and Kate gave their statements about the 'fingers under their noses' and 'hand on their backs' execercise debated recently, they wanted to make believe both twins were flat on their tummies, legs drawn up, and heads stretched sideways. Simultaneously too.

I asked the question then, if any parent on the Forum had any experience of two small children moving into or maintaining that disturbing position at the same time. Disturbing as in: risk of cot death if not being able to turn from the pillow and smothering.

Now it seems they both managed to turn from a similar position -on their backs- to the similar position -on their tummies- in the time span between the exit of their parents to the Tapas (08.30) and Kates return (10.00)

Is that credible?

And isn't the next question: what did Proud Father Gerry observe at 09.00?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Nina on 30.03.13 10:59

@Portia wrote:Also please take note that Kate says the twins were left on their backs.

When Fiona and Kate gave their statements about the 'fingers under their noses' and 'hand on their backs' execercise debated recently, they wanted to make believe both twins were flat on their tummies, legs drawn up, and heads stretched sideways. Simultaneously too.

I asked the question then, if any parent on the Forum had any experience of two small children moving into or maintaining that disturbing position at the same time. Disturbing as in: risk of cot death if not being able to turn from the pillow and smothering.

Now it seems they both managed to turn from a similar position -on their backs- to the similar position -on their tummies- in the time span between the exit of their parents to the Tapas (08.30) and Kates return (10.00)

Is that credible?

And isn't the next question: what did Proud Father Gerry observe at 09.00?

Good point Portia, re the synchronized movements of the twins. In this position they are nearly reproducing their older sister's recovery position.

____________________
Not one more cent from me.

Nina

Posts : 2694
Reputation : 237
Join date : 2011-06-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Snifferdog on 30.03.13 11:02

[quote="Khalgregar"]
@PeterMac wrote:And whilst we are back on the subject, IF madeleine had been in the recovery position on top of the covers, why, within 1 minute and 40 seconds, would the sheets have been turned down like that .

Maybe it was the abductor having a bit of a laugh? ;-)
high5
My guess, is that someone was responsible for messing the bed up to back their story, someone who did a really bad job of it. It looks to me like the person who 'messed' up the bed high5 was a little OCD.[/quot high5 e]. Perhaps the wrong bed was messed up so KH said she slept in it to cover up?

____________________
“‘Conspiracy stuff’ is now shorthand for unspeakable truth.”
– Gore Vidal

Snifferdog

Posts : 1008
Reputation : 16
Join date : 2012-05-11
Location : here

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Guest on 30.03.13 11:05

@pennylane wrote:@ suzy, re #2.

I don't believe Maddie's comments re the crying episode ever happened..... and certainly not 2 mornings later, on the ill-fated 3rd. Rather the disturbing occurrence as overheard by upstairs neighbour Mrs Fenn, was acutely threatening to their facade, hence the lame efforts to neutralise it, and change the date....

Personally I believe those terror stricken sounds of an infant crying on the night of 1st, set off a chain of dire events that eventually proved lethal!

Agreed.

Where was good doctor David that evening?
Any witnesses to that?

Why did Kate stress that she was so well aware of her daughters fear of payne, sorry, pain?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Guest on 30.03.13 11:11

@Nina wrote:
@Portia wrote:Also please take note that Kate says the twins were left on their backs.

When Fiona and Kate gave their statements about the 'fingers under their noses' and 'hand on their backs' execercise debated recently, they wanted to make believe both twins were flat on their tummies, legs drawn up, and heads stretched sideways. Simultaneously too.

I asked the question then, if any parent on the Forum had any experience of two small children moving into or maintaining that disturbing position at the same time. Disturbing as in: risk of cot death if not being able to turn from the pillow and smothering.

Now it seems they both managed to turn from a similar position -on their backs- to the similar position -on their tummies- in the time span between the exit of their parents to the Tapas (08.30) and Kates return (10.00)

Is that credible?

And isn't the next question: what did Proud Father Gerry observe at 09.00?

Good point Portia, re the synchronized movements of the twins. In this position they are nearly reproducing their older sister's recovery position.

Hello Nina!

If you leave a child having 'calpolled' it, it might seem wiser to leave it on its tummy, as that might prevent it from choking if throwing up the drug.

If we have an anaesthesist in the house, maybe she/he could shed some light on the statistics of a child choking on its back, or smothering itself on its stomach.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Page 5 of 8 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum