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Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by lj on 31.01.14 13:48

@aiyoyo wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
Poe wrote:
@Hobs wrote:
Will she try and do a deal so she serves her time in the States?
Will she roll on sollecito in order to get a reduced sentence?
Unless he made a run for it overnight, Sollecito should be trapped. He has to hand over any documents that would allow him to travel out of the country.
In his position, looking at a 25 year jail sentence while his accomplice might avoid her 28 year sentence just by staying in her home country, I would sing like a canary.

He tried.
He was arrested close to the border with Slovenia earlier today - SKY NEWS

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/31/meredith-kercher-family-press-conference-knox-sollecito-live-updates
10.03am GMT
Raffaele Sollecito has been found and detained in a village just by the Austrian frontier and is currently in a police station, writes John Hooper.
His passport has been seized.

9.56am GMT
The Italian news agency Ansa has more on the apparent attempt by Sollecito to flee Italian.
It says he was picked up in Udine, in the north-east of Italy, by members of the Italian flying squad.

So, he didn't bother to disguise himself or escaped by car which would not have been subjected to rigorous check at borders, unlike airports.
If he is flight risk, he risks retention in custody, or he could be offered conditional bail, who knows.

If Knox extradition is refused, she will be in same situation, she is imprisoned in America.
With murder charge over her head and  being fugitive she's unemployable.

Don't forget that she is, very much like Kate again, a kind of national hero wronged by those spaghetti munchers. There are many (sadly I have to admit even my MIL) that believe she is innocent. Why I asked many. The answer most of the time is along lines: "you have seen her, how could this "girl next door" do anything so evil?" What's more : you know how those Italians are!!
I think she will get enough support around her to live a very comfortable life. That's why I hope her arrogance will trip her up. With these megalomaniacs you never know. One day she might feel she has the right to go to the audience with the pope. So Italians keep your eyes and ears open.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by aiyoyo on 31.01.14 15:01

@lj wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@lj wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
AMANDA KNOX'S FULL STATEMENT

First and foremost it must be recognized that there is no consolation for the Kercher family. Their grief over Meredith's terrible murder will follow them forever. They deserve respect and support.

I am frightened and saddened by this unjust verdict. Having been found innocent before, I expected better from the Italian justice system. The evidence and accusatory theory do not justify a verdict of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Rather, nothing has changed. There has always been a marked lack of evidence. My family and I have suffered greatly from this wrongful persecution.

This has gotten out of hand. Most troubling is that it was entirely preventable. I beseech those with the knowledge and authority to address and remediate the problems that worked to pervert the course of justice and waste the valuable resources of the system: overzealous and intransigent prosecution, prejudiced and narrow-minded investigation, unwillingness to admit mistake, reliance on unreliable testimony and evidence, character assassination, inconsistent and unfounded accusatory theory, and counterproductive and coercive interrogation techniques that produce false confessions and inaccurate statements.

Clearly a wrongful conviction is horrific for the wrongfully accused, but it is also terribly bad for the victim, their surviving family, and society.

Why didn't Knox's lawyer tell her to shut up?  Unless she's client who refuses to heed advice; leaving herself open to more pitfall.
Normally client leaves it to their lawyer to comment.
Reminds me of the other Mrs who's exactly the same - narcissistic.  

Indeed her shameless arrogance and lying equals that of Kate.

This has gotten out of hand. Most troubling is that it was entirely preventable. I beseech those with the knowledge and authority to address and remediate the problems that worked to pervert the course of justice and waste the valuable resources of the system:

Indeed!  Except she's a lot more eloquent than Kate who cant string a proper sentence.
Knox's as insolent as Kate if not more so - her "This has gotten out of hand" is so brazenly arrogant, akin to Kate's "People will riot if they were arrested".
Knox took it even further  - the next part of her statement literally is urging the law experts and US authorities to intervene in her extradition.



That's true, but it does not take much to be more eloquent than Kate.

Amande is a classic example of a narcissistic sociopath: unwarranted grandeur or better megalomania and an even unreal sense of entitlement. I doubt though that she will get much of empathy with these over the top statements.

That may be case and her odd behavior though inexplicable, but no one can be convicted solely based on odd unexplainable idiotic behavior.  
But that almost certainly precipitates attention on her because there were plenty circumstantial evidence plus forensics evidence against her.  

The circumstantial evidence against her were too many to list, but I will list just a few.
Her irregular call to her mum in the US at an odd time of 3+ am US time when Kercher laid dead in her room. Alarm was only raised next afternoon.
Knox's blood on the faucet, and bathroom floor mat, floormat found dragged to flatmate's burglared staged room. Objects thrown over floor had window broken glasses atop, not underneath them as it should have been if entry first before ransack. Flatmate's PC and other valuables in plain sight intact, not taken.
Said flatmate's table lamp had been moved and found next to Kercher's body.
Shop assistant attested to seeing Knox coming into the shop at about 7.00am.  She bought bleach etc.
Synchronised phones switch off at 9.00pm then switch back on at 6.00 am (first and only time) between RS and Knox.
She lied to flatmate about the times she sms Kercher, but mobile record forensic shows she lied.


When talking about Kercher, Knox said she was killed next to the cabinet, and that she died screaming her throat had been slit (the latter remark in response to friends/flatmates remark that Kercher must have died in pain).  Friends/flatmates reveal Knox's conversation in their Police statement.
In Knox's testimony she said she could not look properly into Kercher's room because they were shooed away by Police.
 All she saw from a quick glimpse was a foot sticking out.

Forensic examination revealed her body had been moved.
There was drag blood trail along the floor - she was killed next to the cupboard/cabinet, her body dragged to the middle of room and a blanket thrown over to cover  her body.  Only someone at the crime scene or involved in the killing could have known that detail, as that info was never released in the public domain, not prior to the trial anyway.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Newintown on 31.01.14 15:15

Replying to aiyoyo at 3.01 p.m. -

Not forgetting Patrick Lumumba, whose life was ruined by Knox’s statement –

http://news.sky.com/story/1203113/knox-says-heart-in-mouth-ahead-of-verdict

It comes as Patrick Lumumba, the barman Knox wrongly accused of killing Miss Kercher in 2007, urged Knox to come to court "'if she is as innocent as she claims".

Mr Lumumba was held in custody after Knox told police she had ''covered her ears as he killed'' Miss Kercher in the student house the girls shared.

However, he was cleared after two weeks when a university professor provided a watertight alibi, while Knox was charged with murder and sexual assault along with her former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito.

____________________
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"Never trust an eyewitness whose memory gets better over time"


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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Hobs on 31.01.14 15:19

Hi Loopzdaloop

A strong reliable denial will alsways be :
First person singular  I
Past tense  Did not or Didn't
Event specific in this case, Kill or Murder Meredith Kercher

Regardless of age, language, gender, education or anything else, an innocent person will make a strong reliable denial with no qualifier words or going beyons the boundries of the question.
We also need to be aware of reflective language by the subject.
If the subject is asked "Did you kill meredith Kercher?" and they reply" No i did not kill Meredith kercher" then it is an unreliable denial as they are reflecting the language of the interviewer.
This is why it is important to ask single questions rather than compound and to use only the language used by the subject, ie not introducing new words into the session.
questions are best left open ended so where the subject choose to start their reply shows what is important to them.

A good example of an unreliable denial ids by gerry mccann when asked if he killed his daughter





"Did you kill your daughter?" asks the lady journalist. Gerry answers:

"No. That's an emphatic 'no.' I mean the ludicrous thing is. Errm... what... I suppose... what's been purported from Portugal is that Madeleine died in the apartment by an accident and we hid her body. Well, when did she have the accident and died? Cos... the only time she was left unattended was when we were at dinner, so if she died then, how could we have disposed of... hidden her body when there was an immediate search. It's just nonsense. So. An' if she died when we were in the apartment or fell injured, why would we... why would we cover that up?"

KM (interjecting): "And it gets even more ludicrous, that we've obviously hidden her so incredibly well, where nobody's found her and we hid her (interviewer: 'incredibly well') so well that we then decided that we'd move her in the car which we hired weeks later and you know it's just ridiculous."



Straight away we can see it is an unreliable denial. He first answers no and then weakens it with the additional qualfiers  That's an emphatic 'no.'
 This is close,that is distancing so right away he is distancing himself from the answer No.
No is repeated twice making it sensitive.
Emphatic is a qualifier word which means when removed it doesn't affect the meaning of the sentence.
The more qualifiers the weaker the denial.


He then goes beyond the bounds of the question further weakenuing it and making the question sensitive.
He tells why she couldn't have died in the apartment.
he introduces them being at dinner which was when she was allegedly left unattended ( i don't buy the neglect story, no neglect meant no abduction and a lot of awkward questions)


He then slips up and says  "could we have disposed of" before self editting and stopping before changing it to hidden
 he then asks a question
So. An' if she died when we were in the apartment or fell injured, why would we... why would we cover that up?"
When the subject answers a question with a question is makes the question sensitive.
 What is interesting is the slip up  "if she died when we were in the apartment or fell injured"
Why does he say when we were in the apartment and not when we were out to dinner?
Note also it is embedded she died when we were in the apartment.


If this is the case one has to ask yes gerry why didn't you call 911?


this leads to the question then what was the cause of death that they could not allow her to go to hospital or an autopsy?


Anyhow, back to knox.


In her statement in regard to the guilty verdict , there is no strong reliable denial.

The verdict is wrong because i did not kill Meredith.
if she can't make the denial, i can't do it for her.


Regarding her confession, it was written using the process of free editing, in english  whilst she was i believe still being treated as a witness and not a suspect.
her own words which place her at the scene of crime and the details she goes into when showering with sollecito indicate  the motive was likely  sexual homicide.
note she writes in particular about him cleaning her ears, this would be relevant and telling given the amount of blood that was spilled, they would be sure to make sure all traces of blood on their persons was washed away ( i wonder why the pipes in their bathroom weren't checked for races of blood since blood would likely have come from Meredith and they would have a hell of a job explaining that away)


Peter Hyatt who is an amzing statement analyst did a revealing analysis of knox's statement

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by marconi on 31.01.14 15:46

It seams that the US don't extradit their citizens to any country, no matter the crime they have committed.
There is still the Italian Mafia that can do something about it, if they want to. It is a tremendous insult for the victim and her family and for the Italian Justice.
The Mafia can manage it, I believe.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by marconi on 31.01.14 15:46

It seams that the US don't extradit their citizens to any country, no matter the crime they have committed.
There is still the Italian Mafia that can do something about it, if they want to. It is a tremendous insult for the victim and her family and for the Italian Justice.
The Mafia can manage it, I believe.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by diatribe on 31.01.14 16:25

Why anyone would answer any questions whilst being interviewed by the police has always been beyond my comprehension. There's nothing to be gained with everything to be lost and in any event how can an accused possibly answer questions on any matter until they have seen all the evidence against them. The police are only obliged to disclose a skeletonised account of what they wish to question an accused in relation to. After all, if challenged to a duel at dawn, it would be foolish to turn up with sabre if one's opponent arrives armed with a Thompson machine gun.

One could be faced with the best inquisitor on the face of the planet, but he/she is immediately rendered toothless, or put collouqially, as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike if an  accused person chooses to ignore him/her. Its not rocket science and at the end of the day, why should an accused person contribute to building a case against themself. Even an uneducated oaf such as Clarence Mitchall understands this philosophy when he stated 'It is not for the McCanns to prove their innocence, it is for the police to prove their guilt' (This is a paraphrase of what he stated, but it is exactly what he meant)

Prior to the 1984 PACE Act, it didn't matter if one remained silent because the police wrote their own script which if signed by an officer of the rank of Inspector or above was admissable in court. The introduction of verbatim audio taped interviews of course rendered the police toothless, which is why Michael Howard basically removed the so called right to silence circa 1994, the first of many erosions of a defendant's rights. Now, a refusal to answer police questions is held against a defendant in a court of law with judges able to invite jurors to make adverse inferences from an accused person standing by their legal right to refrain from incriminating themself.

Because all IUC's (Interviews under Caution) in the UK are audio recorded there is no longer need to have a representative present as one cannot as in the past be 'verballed off', although its a good idea to have one in order to be able to state that you are willing to answer all questions and that there is a perfectly logical explanation to the matter in hand, but unfortunately you are unable to do so at this stage because your representative has advised you not to answer any questions due to the fact that this matter could become sub judice.

Who are we as lay persons to discard the advice of our appointed representatives and what would be the point of having representation if we simply choose to ignore it. Judges and prosecutors can still put the poison in, but if you're lucky enough to have a discerning jury, a very rare commodity I might add in the UK, the toxicity of the judge's summation is at least diminished to a degree. I mean, lets 'ave it right, what sane minded person keeps a dog and takes a course in learning how to bark. big grin

I have nothing but disdain for the McCanns, but the one sensible thing Kate McCann did and which should not be held against her was to refuse to answer any of the questions put to her whilst being a suspected person/arguido.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by tiny on 31.01.14 16:31

@diatribe wrote:Why anyone would answer any questions whilst being interviewed by the police has always been beyond my comprehension. There's nothing to be gained with everything to be lost and in any event how can an accused possibly answer questions on any matter until they have seen all the evidence against them. The police are only obliged to disclose a skeletonised account of what they wish to question an accused in relation to. After all, if challenged to a duel at dawn, it would be foolish to turn up with sabre if one's opponent arrives armed with a Thompson machine gun.

One could be faced with the best inquisitor on the face of the planet, but he/she is immediately rendered toothless, or put collouqially, as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike if an  accused person chooses to ignore him/her. Its not rocket science and at the end of the day, why should an accused person contribute to building a case against themself. Even an uneducated oaf such as Clarence Mitchall understands this philosophy when he stated 'It is not for the McCanns to prove their innocence, it is for the police to prove their guilt' (This is a paraphrase of what he stated, but it is exactly what he meant)

Prior to the 1984 PACE Act, it didn't matter if one remained silent because the police wrote their own script which if signed by an officer of the rank of Inspector or above was admissable in court. The introduction of verbatim audio taped interviews of course rendered the police toothless, which is why Michael Howard basically removed the so called right to silence circa 1994, the first of many erosions of a defendant's rights. Now, a refusal to answer police questions is held against a defendant in a court of law with judges able to invite jurors to make adverse inferences from an accused person standing by their legal right to refrain from incriminating themself.

Because all IUC's (Interviews under Caution) in the UK are audio recorded there is no longer need to have a representative present as one cannot as in the past be 'verballed off', although its a good idea to have one in order to be able to state that you are willing to answer all questions and that there is a perfectly logical explanation to the matter in hand, but unfortunately you are unable to do so at this stage because your representative has advised you not to answer any questions due to the fact that this matter could become sub judice.

Who are we as lay persons to discard the advice of our appointed representatives and what would be the point of having representation if we simply choose to ignore it. Judges and prosecutors can still put the poison in, but if you're lucky enough to have a discerning jury, a very rare commodity I might add in the UK, the toxicity of the judge's summation is at least diminished to a degree. I mean, lets 'ave it right, what sane minded person keeps a dog and takes a course in learning how to bark. big grin

I have nothing but disdain for the McCanns, but the one sensible thing Kate McCann did and which should not be held against her was to refuse to answer any of the questions put to her whilst being a suspected person/arguido.
your having a laugh,right,  her daughters missing and you think it ok for her  to dismiss any questions.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by diatribe on 31.01.14 16:36

@marconi wrote:It seams that the US don't extradit their citizens to any country, no matter the crime they have committed.
But they're very insistent on european countries complying with 'His Master's voice' when requesting extradition of persons to the 'Land of the free,' even if the warrant relates to a matter which may not even be an offence outside of the US jurisdiction.

This one way traffic is yet another reason to be thankful to the Nulabor gov. before they rode off into the sunset with their gold plated pensions after having bankrupted the country and deprived its subjects of just about every civil liberty their forbears had fought and died for.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by aiyoyo on 31.01.14 16:38

@ Hobs
Regarding her confession, it was written using the process of free editing, in english whilst she was i believe still being treated as a witness and not a suspect.
her own words which place her at the scene of crime and the details she goes into when showering with sollecito indicate the motive was likely sexual homicide.
note she writes in particular about him cleaning her ears, this would be relevant and telling given the amount of blood that was spilled, they would be sure to make sure all traces of blood on their persons was washed away ( i wonder why the pipes in their bathroom weren't checked for races of blood since blood would likely have come from Meredith and they would have a hell of a job explaining that away)

She does over-emphasize issue about her ears.
She mentioned in TV interviews that the speck of her blood found on the faucet could be from her pierced ears or menstruation.

@ loopzdaloop
While I understand what you're trying to say, I do believe her age, drug use and immaturity was optimized to excuse she doesn't know what she's doing or saying half the time. In other words she took advantage of her inexperience to excuse her behavior.
In general that may apply true to teens her age, but in her case I don't buy it.

She was not drugged up when she made her boss a patsy.
Did she drag him into it because she blamed him for canceling her duty that night - if not for that, she would not have been in the sticky situation ? Personally I think that is a possibility.

She could have retracted her statement about him but she didn't. Neither did she ever apologise to him. That must say something about her character.
She does not appear to be angry on National TV, in fact she appears very controlled, nerves of steel.
The only time she allows her mask to slip is with the Guardian interview in what looks to be in her home.

I grant she has right to defend herself but she's too self absorbing and moans too much about everyone.
She never once, not even in retrospect, admits regrets that her odd behavior was insensitive or expresses understanding why people find it offensive.
Instead she finds excuses for her behavior, not passionate kisses but comfort kisses....

Her change in tune lately, claiming Kercher was her mate that they got along fine. That Kercher talked to her about her dad and her sister are all PR exercise to influence Kercher's family view of her and for US public consumption. If true, it came too late. She never talk about Kercher before, neither did she show emotion for a lost dear friend.
All these hullabaloo and fault finding with the Italian system is not endearing.
She argues and protests too much IMO.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by diatribe on 31.01.14 16:48

@tiny wrote:
@diatribe wrote:

I have nothing but disdain my comprehension. There's nothing to be gained with everything to be lost and in any event how can an accused possibly answer questions on any matterfor the McCanns, but the one sensible thing Kate McCann did and which should not be held against her was to refuse to answer any of the questions put to her whilst being a suspected person/arguido.
your having a laugh,right,  her daughters missing and you think it ok for her  to dismiss any questions.
In her position, it was absolutely the right course of action to take. You're presuming her daughter was missing, she knew otherwise.(I suppose I'd better include the 'IMO' to save the moderators a bit of work and allow them to get back to their knitting.) big grin

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by aiyoyo on 31.01.14 16:51

@loopzdaloop wrote:
@Hobs wrote:Her statement  re: the verdict was telling. Instead of saying the verdict was wrong because she didn't do it ) i would look for a strong first person singular, past tense event specific denial) she doesn't make a strong reliable denial, instead she bad mouths everyone.

She even claims a false confession was coerced out of her. This is part of what she got charged with slander as she claimed the police had abused her when they hadn't. Even her own lawyer said they hadn't. Her parents who repeated the claims also face slander charges.

If it was a false confession it would have been revealed in her words in her freely written statement in english.

counterproductive and coercive interrogation techniques that produce false confessions and inaccurate statements.


This is telling in that she admits there were confessions, sher however claims they were coerced which they weren't.

She doesn't say the statements were false or untrue, only that they were inaccurate.

How were the statements inaccurate?

What was meant by counterproductive and coersive  interrogation techniques?

She was initially treated as a witness not a suspect.

Her story kept changing and when reading her statement she appears to be writing it as if she was high on a hallucinogeic such as LSD rather than having smoked a bit of dope.

Will she continue to fight?

Will she try and do a deal so she serves her time in the States?
Will she roll on sollecito in order to get a reduced sentence?

I think I've said before, I really enjoy your work and have always enjoyed any form of discourse analysis.
But, the way people use language differs individually, cross cultures and sub cultures and also across continents.
To be accurate with regard to 'strong' or 'weak' denials you would need a baseline to be taken of how she uses language normally, and within her interview video she is very flamboyant and american in her use of language. Once out of prison she started studying 'creative writing'. In this case, utilising the norms that you use for your interpretations are as off as they would be if you analysed the speech of Russell Brand. 

I would argue that her story kept changing because it was a false confession and because of the pressure that would have been put on her within that situation. Within the interview she says the way she was questioned made her question herself. She was young, immature and would not have been prepared for the type of interrogation that would have been utilised within that sort of environment. I'm aware that there is a special way of signing your name to indicate that it has been done under duress but I wonder how many people here can remember it off the top of their head.

I've just caught up with regard to aiyoyo and yes I have read the case and the evidence against her is flimsy. 
This is a political conviction aimed at restoring the public perception of a prosecution service within a country that is world renowned for its corruption.

Oh so you are saying Italy is corrupted hey?  Wow.
And I thought this is about looking at  facts and evidence of the case that two Courts came to the same conclusion.  
No point dragging politics into this, as that's a different agenda.
Politics is best left to lawyers and US authorities - they are the ones well capable of using politics to argue laws.

If I was sollicito I would definitely go on the run (despite it 'looking bad' in other countries if that occured)! I would use a world passport and go to a country that recognises it (http://www.worldservice.org/docpass.html. Yet he didn't go on the run he was at his girlfriends house who lives near the border. Which is indicative of... a corrupt police force trying to make him look bad!

So you advocate and encourage criminals to flee then ?
What about poor Dewani?  
Is the UK government wrong in extraditing him to SA to face trial, or is this also about corruption and politics?  


If you think about it, there are no inspection points on the french or spain side of the country so who would have known that he had gone!

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by aiyoyo on 31.01.14 17:02

@lj wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
Poe wrote:
@Hobs wrote:
Will she try and do a deal so she serves her time in the States?
Will she roll on sollecito in order to get a reduced sentence?
Unless he made a run for it overnight, Sollecito should be trapped. He has to hand over any documents that would allow him to travel out of the country.
In his position, looking at a 25 year jail sentence while his accomplice might avoid her 28 year sentence just by staying in her home country, I would sing like a canary.

He tried.
He was arrested close to the border with Slovenia earlier today - SKY NEWS

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/31/meredith-kercher-family-press-conference-knox-sollecito-live-updates
10.03am GMT
Raffaele Sollecito has been found and detained in a village just by the Austrian frontier and is currently in a police station, writes John Hooper.
His passport has been seized.

9.56am GMT
The Italian news agency Ansa has more on the apparent attempt by Sollecito to flee Italian.
It says he was picked up in Udine, in the north-east of Italy, by members of the Italian flying squad.

So, he didn't bother to disguise himself or escaped by car which would not have been subjected to rigorous check at borders, unlike airports.
If he is flight risk, he risks retention in custody, or he could be offered conditional bail, who knows.

If Knox extradition is refused, she will be in same situation, she is imprisoned in America.
With murder charge over her head and  being fugitive she's unemployable.

Don't forget that she is, very much like Kate again, a kind of national hero wronged by those spaghetti munchers. There are many (sadly I have to admit even my MIL) that believe she is innocent. Why I asked many. The answer most of the time is along lines: "you have seen her, how could this "girl next door" do anything so evil?" What's more : you know how those Italians are!!
I think she will get enough support around her to live a very comfortable life. That's why I hope her arrogance will trip her up. With these megalomaniacs you never know. One day she might feel she has the right to go to the audience with the pope. So Italians keep your eyes and ears open.

Sadly there are many people who think good looking middle class cannot commit horrific crimes.
Even Amanda and RS think they are vicitimsed because of their youthfulness good looks, that the prosecution of them is about scape goating them to creat sensationalism for the media and to boost newspapers circulation.  Nothing to do with their self incriminating statements, like for example, RS attributes the Kercher's blood at tip of the knife to Kercher having cut her finger while cooking in his apt, when it was proved Kercher was not his friend and had never been to his apartment.  It was later established there was no blood on the knife tip.  So you have to wonder why he fabricated such a self incriminating excuse.

This "I'm good looking, educated, middle class, not creature capable of committing crime"  mentality is often play as a card.
Kate infamously said had she been fat with laden big boobs people might not criticized her vanity.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by diatribe on 31.01.14 17:12

aiyoya wrote:
Kate infamously said had she been fat with laden big boobs people might not criticized her vanity.


I remember watching a video with her mother stating something on those lines. I thought it a tad strange at the time because what female would be envious of a flat chested woman!!!

If this was the general consensus of envy amongst the female sex, then surely, plastic surgeons wouldn't be making vast fortunes out of breast enhancement surgery.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by plebgate on 31.01.14 17:17

I think the comment was more along the lines of if she looked like Ena Sharples and her big boobs than Pammie Anderson and her big boobs. smilie

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by ultimaThule on 31.01.14 17:23

@diatribe wrote:
aiyoya wrote:
Kate infamously said had she been fat with laden big boobs people might not criticized her vanity.


I remember watching a video with her mother stating something on those lines. I thought it a tad strange at the time because what female would be envious of a flat chested woman!!!

If this was the general consensus of envy amongst the female sex, then surely, plastic surgeons wouldn't be making vast fortunes out of breast enhancement surgery.
I find it more than a tad strange you appear to believe that no female 'would be envious of a flat chested woman'.   Do you have access to any research which can support this peculiar assertion?

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by aiyoyo on 31.01.14 17:27

@diatribe wrote:
@marconi wrote:It seams that the US don't extradit their citizens to any country, no matter the crime they have committed.
But they're very insistent on european countries complying with 'His Master's voice' when requesting extradition of persons to the 'Land of the free,' even if the warrant relates to a matter which may not even be an offence outside of the US jurisdiction.

This one way traffic is yet another reason to be thankful to the Nulabor gov. before they rode off into the sunset with their gold plated pensions after having bankrupted the country and deprived its subjects of just about every civil liberty their forbears had fought and died for.

Apart from diplomatic relationship, I suppose factors such as amount of trade and commence between US and Italy, and historical records of extradition between the two countries will be used to weigh whether a refusal would affect future trade and extraditions. Using politics to defend laws is complex, something that even the legal experts are spilt in their opinions. Will US jeopardize diplomatic relation with Italy would depend which power be lobby for Knox's cause.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by aiyoyo on 31.01.14 17:35

@diatribe wrote:
aiyoya wrote:
Kate infamously said had she been fat with laden big boobs people might not criticized her vanity.


I remember watching a video with her mother stating something on those lines. I thought it a tad strange at the time because what female would be envious of a flat chested woman!!!

If this was the general consensus of envy amongst the female sex, then surely, plastic surgeons wouldn't be making vast fortunes out of breast enhancement surgery.

Well, you get the gist, she's not wanting Aunt Philo's 64 triple D size either.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by diatribe on 31.01.14 17:36

@plebgate wrote:I think the comment was more along the lines of if she looked like Ena Sharples and her big boobs than Pammie Anderson and her big boobs. smilie

In that case, maybe she'd have been better advised to have stuck Gerry's sister up as the custodian of Madeleine big grin

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by aiyoyo on 31.01.14 17:37

@ultimaThule wrote:
@diatribe wrote:
aiyoya wrote:
Kate infamously said had she been fat with laden big boobs people might not criticized her vanity.


I remember watching a video with her mother stating something on those lines. I thought it a tad strange at the time because what female would be envious of a flat chested woman!!!

If this was the general consensus of envy amongst the female sex, then surely, plastic surgeons wouldn't be making vast fortunes out of breast enhancement surgery.
I find it more than a tad strange you appear to believe that no female 'would be envious of a flat chested woman'.   Do you have access to any research which can support this peculiar assertion?

Depends whether you mean flatish, or flat flat as in airport runway? Anything is better than ancient style wooden washing board.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by plebgate on 31.01.14 17:43

@diatribe wrote:
@plebgate wrote:I think the comment was more along the lines of if she looked like Ena Sharples and her big boobs than Pammie Anderson and her big boobs. smilie

In that case, maybe she'd have been better advised to have stuck Gerry's sister up as the custodian of Madeleine big grin
Yes might have been, but hang on a minute,  custodian's would need a house and didn't I hear Gerry's Big sister say that they would be prepared to sell their homes to get enough money to look for Maddie?

Phew just as well the Fund was set up then, no need to sell any homes so maybe they could have given your idea a go.  titter

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by diatribe on 31.01.14 17:44

@ultimaThule wrote:

 I find it more than a tad strange you appear to believe that no female 'would be envious of a flat chested woman'.   Do you have access to any research which can support this peculiar assertion?
I suppose the ones aspiring to grow moustaches might. big grin

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by Guest on 31.01.14 17:47

ontopic  ie Amanda Knox please, this is not about KM.

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by diatribe on 31.01.14 17:55

@aiyoyo wrote:



Depends  whether you mean flatish, or flat flat as in airport runway?  Anything is better  than ancient style wooden washing board.

From a male point of view, the size of women's breasts has little to do with size and everything to do with shape. (Just in case I'm being lined up for a libel suit, I'll add IMO) big grin

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Re: Amanda Knox Retrial? * UPDATE* Trial to go ahead, acquittal overturned

Post by aiyoyo on 31.01.14 18:02

candyfloss wrote:ontopic   ie Amanda Knox please, this is not about KM.

You are absolutely right!

Knox has a decent size looking pair than Kate, that's for sure.

Also, Kate cannot compare in the Looks department pitched against Foxy Knox.

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