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The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by justagrannynow 1 on 26.03.10 9:38

vaguely I admire your concern about the misuse of information, and the risk of vigilantes, ( I mean that, not being sarcastic) but a child is missing and every scrap of information should be thoroughly investigated. The parents have asked on many occasions for the assistance of the public, so maybe that is why we feel we have a right to have some input into this investigation, and why people like myself are left bewildered by their inconsistent/picky attitude towards the information provided.
Also, and I don't like bringing this up, but the McCanns showed no concern for the family of Raymond Hewlett. Yes, he is a despicable paedophile, but did his wife and children deserve to be plastered all over the media? When it suits them, Kate and Gerry McCann can appeal for the concerns of others to be put aside in their search for Madeleine. They feel sorry for the people of PDL who have lost their jobs because of this, but those people should accept that these things cannot be helped etc etc. Well, in my book, allegations, made to the police about their behaviour and that of David Payne come into the same category.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by vaguely1 on 26.03.10 9:41

@ufercoffy wrote:

@vaguely1 wrote:Labelling a man as a paedophile, as has been done time and time and time again on the Madeleine forums repulses me.


 


Goncalo Amaral has also stated that there is evidence of a child molester in that group of friends and is curious about David Payne's activities regarding bathing the McCann children. Can a child molester be assumed to be a paedophile? If so, does Amaral's statement repulse you?



He bases his statement on the Gaspar statement does he not? Or does he have evidence in the true sense?

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by vaguely1 on 26.03.10 9:45

@justagrannynow 1 wrote:vaguely I admire your concern about the misuse of information, and the risk of vigilantes, ( I mean that, not being sarcastic) but a child is missing and every scrap of information should be thoroughly investigated. The parents have asked on many occasions for the assistance of the public, so maybe that is why we feel we have a right to have some input into this investigation, and why people like myself are left bewildered by their inconsistent/picky attitude towards the information provided.
Also, and I don't like bringing this up, but the McCanns showed no concern for the family of Raymond Hewlett. Yes, he is a despicable paedophile, but did his wife and children deserve to be plastered all over the media? When it suits them, Kate and Gerry McCann can appeal for the concerns of others to be put aside in their search for Madeleine. They feel sorry for the people of PDL who have lost their jobs because of this, but those people should accept that these things cannot be helped etc etc. Well, in my book, allegations, made to the police about their behaviour and that of David Payne come into the same category.

I indeed have concern for Hewletts children, in more ways than one.

It isn't an either or. I don't support any of it Gran. But in the case of an unfounded allegation versus previous convictions I can see there's a difference.

The whole thing is ugly.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by kathyBelle on 26.03.10 9:50

Well said justagrannynow1, the McCanns have never shown any concern, until recently, or any of the children who have had their faces plastered across newspapers, when they were supposed to be Madeleine look a likes. The media have even found out where these children live and have identified them.

The media have put so much effort into delving into the lives of these innocent children, on the McCanns behalf. I wonder why they didn't put the same effort into going to the area where Dave Edgar and the McCanns, believe Madeleine is now living, which is in a poor community around 10 miles away from Praia da Luz. I'm sure if they had waved a cheque book, in front of these poor people, someone would have spoken out.

I have to say, I wonder why Dave Edgar and the McCanns haven't visited this community. They should have gone to the community, before they announced to the media where they believed Madeleine was now living.

Unless they were hoping the media would do their job for them, that way, they wouldn't have had to use any money from their tacky fund.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by ufercoffy on 26.03.10 9:54

@vaguely1 wrote:
@ufercoffy wrote:

@vaguely1 wrote:Labelling a man as a paedophile, as has been done time and time and time again on the Madeleine forums repulses me.


 


Goncalo Amaral has also stated that there is evidence of a child molester in that group of friends and is curious about David Payne's activities regarding bathing the McCann children. Can a child molester be assumed to be a paedophile? If so, does Amaral's statement repulse you?



He bases his statement on the Gaspar statement does he not? Or does he have evidence in the true sense?

So, if someone witnessed a friend making suggestions about your small daughter and then went on to bathe her you wouldn't think of that friend as a child molester or a paedophile and you wouldn't feel repulsed? You would question the police officer?

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by vaguely1 on 26.03.10 9:58

@ufercoffy wrote:
@vaguely1 wrote:
@ufercoffy wrote:

@vaguely1 wrote:Labelling a man as a paedophile, as has been done time and time and time again on the Madeleine forums repulses me.


 


Goncalo Amaral has also stated that there is evidence of a child molester in that group of friends and is curious about David Payne's activities regarding bathing the McCann children. Can a child molester be assumed to be a paedophile? If so, does Amaral's statement repulse you?



He bases his statement on the Gaspar statement does he not? Or does he have evidence in the true sense?

So, if someone witnessed a friend making suggestions about your small daughter and then went on to bathe her you wouldn't think of that friend as a child molester or a paedophile and you wouldn't feel repulsed? You would question the police officer?

No, I was asking you whether his statement of having evidence of a child molester was based on the Gaspar statement, or whether he had evidence of there being a child molester in the group.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by ufercoffy on 26.03.10 10:06

@vaguely1 wrote:
@ufercoffy wrote:
@vaguely1 wrote:
@ufercoffy wrote:

@vaguely1 wrote:Labelling a man as a paedophile, as has been done time and time and time again on the Madeleine forums repulses me.


 


Goncalo Amaral has also stated that there is evidence of a child molester in that group of friends and is curious about David Payne's activities regarding bathing the McCann children. Can a child molester be assumed to be a paedophile? If so, does Amaral's statement repulse you?



He bases his statement on the Gaspar statement does he not? Or does he have evidence in the true sense?

So, if someone witnessed a friend making suggestions about your small daughter and then went on to bathe her you wouldn't think of that friend as a child molester or a paedophile and you wouldn't feel repulsed? You would question the police officer?

No, I was asking you whether his statement of having evidence of a child molester was based on the Gaspar statement, or whether he had evidence of there being a child molester in the group.

He said there is evidence of a child molester. What more do you need? Why on earth would you question that? Why on earth would anyone allow the case into their own missing child be shelved under those circumstances and not demand that this was thoroughly checked out?

Only the McCanns know why they let that happen.

And why you try to argue the Gaspar statements is beyond me, unless your Fiona Payne.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by vaguely1 on 26.03.10 10:08

never mind

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by kathyBelle on 26.03.10 10:09

Obviously Mr Amaral would have to base his evidence on what Katherine Gaspar told the police, because Mr Amaral, was not there when David Payne had supposedly made his paedophilia gestures about Madeleine, to Gerry McCann.

Mr Amaral will no doubt wonder, why the McCanns not only stayed silent, over this serious allegation, but let David Payne bathe their children.

I don't understand, why David Payne would bathe the McCanns children, it isn't as though the McCanns weren't able to bathe their children themselves.

More to the point, I don't understand why David Payne would even want to bathe the McCanns children. Just as I don't understand why Gerry McCann, sent David Payne to their apartment, to check on his wife and children, instead of going himself.

David Payne and Kate McCann, both gave conflicting statements, about how long David Payne was in their apartment.

So many lies have been told in this sad case and all to save the McCanns own skins.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by sue xx on 26.03.10 10:49

@kathyBelle wrote:Obviously Mr Amaral would have to base his evidence on what Katherine Gaspar told the police, because Mr Amaral, was not there when David Payne had supposedly made his paedophilia gestures about Madeleine, to Gerry McCann.

Mr Amaral will no doubt wonder, why the McCanns not only stayed silent, over this serious allegation, but let David Payne bathe their children.

I don't understand, why David Payne would bathe the McCanns children, it isn't as though the McCanns weren't able to bathe their children themselves.

More to the point, I don't understand why David Payne would even want to bathe the McCanns children. Just as I don't understand why Gerry McCann, sent David Payne to their apartment, to check on his wife and children, instead of going himself.

David Payne and Kate McCann, both gave conflicting statements, about how long David Payne was in their apartment.

So many lies have been told in this sad case and all to save the McCanns own skins.





Morning kath and well said . I to have wonderd why gerry sent payne to check on his wife ,strange one that .also why was he bathing the McCanns kiddies . You dont let men bath your kids unless it`s their father ,,Yuk That is perverted in my book ...

I wonder how many woman would let their next door neighbour come in and bath their kids Mmmmm.
.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by vaguely1 on 26.03.10 10:56

@sue xx wrote:
@kathyBelle wrote:Obviously Mr Amaral would have to base his evidence on what Katherine Gaspar told the police, because Mr Amaral, was not there when David Payne had supposedly made his paedophilia gestures about Madeleine, to Gerry McCann.

Mr Amaral will no doubt wonder, why the McCanns not only stayed silent, over this serious allegation, but let David Payne bathe their children.

I don't understand, why David Payne would bathe the McCanns children, it isn't as though the McCanns weren't able to bathe their children themselves.

More to the point, I don't understand why David Payne would even want to bathe the McCanns children. Just as I don't understand why Gerry McCann, sent David Payne to their apartment, to check on his wife and children, instead of going himself.

David Payne and Kate McCann, both gave conflicting statements, about how long David Payne was in their apartment.

So many lies have been told in this sad case and all to save the McCanns own skins.





Morning kath and well said . I to have wonderd why gerry sent payne to check on his wife ,strange one that .also why was he bathing the McCanns kiddies . You dont let men bath your kids unless it`s their father ,,Yuk That is perverted in my book ...

I wonder how many woman would let their next door neighbour come in and bath their kids Mmmmm.
.


He was a family friend, not a neighbour. I don't imagine many people would let their neighbours bathe their children, but I'm guessing that people have bathed other people's children in that sort of situation.

Who knows, maybe it makes a difference. Sounds like all the kids were bundled in together - rather than DP specifically being tasked with bathing only Madeleine...which would of course be odd.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by sue xx on 26.03.10 11:01

@vaguely1 wrote:
@sue xx wrote:
@kathyBelle wrote:Obviously Mr Amaral would have to base his evidence on what Katherine Gaspar told the police, because Mr Amaral, was not there when David Payne had supposedly made his paedophilia gestures about Madeleine, to Gerry McCann.

Mr Amaral will no doubt wonder, why the McCanns not only stayed silent, over this serious allegation, but let David Payne bathe their children.

I don't understand, why David Payne would bathe the McCanns children, it isn't as though the McCanns weren't able to bathe their children themselves.

More to the point, I don't understand why David Payne would even want to bathe the McCanns children. Just as I don't understand why Gerry McCann, sent David Payne to their apartment, to check on his wife and children, instead of going himself.

David Payne and Kate McCann, both gave conflicting statements, about how long David Payne was in their apartment.

So many lies have been told in this sad case and all to save the McCanns own skins.





Morning kath and well said . I to have wonderd why gerry sent payne to check on his wife ,strange one that .also why was he bathing the McCanns kiddies . You dont let men bath your kids unless it`s their father ,,Yuk That is perverted in my book ...

I wonder how many woman would let their next door neighbour come in and bath their kids Mmmmm.
.


He was a family friend, not a neighbour. I don't imagine many people would let their neighbours bathe their children, but I'm guessing that people have bathed other people's children in that sort of situation.

Who knows, maybe it makes a difference. Sounds like all the kids were bundled in together - rather than DP specifically being tasked with bathing only Madeleine...which would of course be odd.




Family friend or no family friend what kind of woman would let another man bath her kids .why did kate not bath them herself what was she up to at the time ... also Why has david Payne never sued anyone over the pedo aligations ... They are quick to sue over other things so why no this . ?

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by kathyBelle on 26.03.10 11:01

Morning Sue, I hope you're ok. Alarm bells would have rung, if a male friend, had asked if he could bathe my children, when they were small. In fact my children would have kicked up a fuss, if anyone other than my husband or myself bathed them.

My husband only bathed them, if I was out for the evening, and they were only bathed by their grannies, if they were being babysat.

I shudder to think what happened in that apartment, on the night Madeleine disappeared, when David Payne paid Kate McCann a visit.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by vaguely1 on 26.03.10 11:04

Did he actively ask to bathe them?!?

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by littlepixie on 26.03.10 11:32

When the subject of un-related males bathing other peoples children was brought up on other forums I can remember being attacked for stating that in my opinion it was not right. There were many posters who said that those who thought it "not right" were the ones with dirty minds.

People who look after children on an official basis are trained never to put themselves in a compromising postion with a child. Things such as never closing the door whilst bathing little ones - not changing incontinence pads in a childs room but moving the child to a "neutral" area are taught. You are even told never to lie on a childs bed even when comforting them. If they are ill you lie on the floor next to the bed, not on it.
The authorities are not perverted for training people in this way it is common sense.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by vaguely1 on 26.03.10 11:41

Of course it's common sense.

But he wasn't being employed to give children a bath, and we don't know whether he closed the door, or whether he asked to bath the children.

I don't understand why people keep adding little bits in to the scenario.

Not aimed at LittlePixie, just something I don't understand.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by ufercoffy on 26.03.10 11:56

I can't understand why you try to find excuses for a male friend bathing Madeleine, who Jane Tanner said they didn't really know.

There is no excuse for an activity with a small child that has led the investigating policer officer to say there is evidence of a child molester in that group of friends.

No excuse.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by justagrannynow 1 on 26.03.10 12:02

I had no daughters, just sons, so this is a genuine question.

Much discussion has taken place about the adults involved in this bathing of children, but how would an almost 4 year old girl respond to a male friend of her parents bathing her?
My only similar experience is a vague recollection of being taken to hospital at 4 years of age and having a right old fight with the nurses when they tried to undress me.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by vaguely1 on 26.03.10 12:04

@ufercoffy wrote:I can't understand why you try to find excuses for a male friend bathing Madeleine, who Jane Tanner said they didn't really know.

There is no excuse for an activity with a small child that has led the investigating policer officer to say there is evidence of a child molester in that group of friends.

No excuse.


I don't think I have been. What excuses do you think I've been trying to find?

I did ask whether Amaral is basing his evidence on the Gaspar statement, and whether Payne actively asked to bathe the children, and whether he closed the door......and that a family friend is different to your next door neighbour.

And, in line with the OP, asked whether the word vivacious is actually sexual innuendo.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by vaguely1 on 26.03.10 12:06

@justagrannynow 1 wrote:I had no daughters, just sons, so this is a genuine question.

Much discussion has taken place about the adults involved in this bathing of children, but how would an almost 4 year old girl respond to a male friend of her parents bathing her?
My only similar experience is a vague recollection of being taken to hospital at 4 years of age and having a right old fight with the nurses when they tried to undress me.

I don't imagine there's a generic answer to how children react to that sort of thing Gran. Children, as adults, all have differing behaviour in relation to their bodies.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by ufercoffy on 26.03.10 12:13

The thing is, vaguely, none of us were there so can't answer if Payne actively asked to bathe the children or if the door was closed. So your questions are daft and gives me reason to think you are trying to find excuses for what happened.

Amaral, however, was investigating and came to the conclusion to be able to state publicly that there was evidence of a child molester in the group of friends and went on to say "what time did Payne bathe the children and for how long".

That is enough for me to think that Payne was a dirty trollop, especially as the McCanns allowed the case to be shelved with that hanging in the air and no sign of them, or David Payne, denying it or trying to sue Amaral about it - or the Gaspars for that matter. No, they'd rather sue Amaral for the book than try to clear Payne of paedophile allegations.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by vaguely1 on 26.03.10 12:46

@ufercoffy wrote:The thing is, vaguely, none of us were there so can't answer if Payne actively asked to bathe the children or if the door was closed. So your questions are daft and gives me reason to think you are trying to find excuses for what happened.

Amaral, however, was investigating and came to the conclusion to be able to state publicly that there was evidence of a child molester in the group of friends and went on to say "what time did Payne bathe the children and for how long".

That is enough for me to think that Payne was a dirty trollop, especially as the McCanns allowed the case to be shelved with that hanging in the air and no sign of them, or David Payne, denying it or trying to sue Amaral about it - or the Gaspars for that matter. No, they'd rather sue Amaral for the book than try to clear Payne of paedophile allegations.


Whoa, hold on, my questions are only daft because I'm questioning comments made on this thread....... It's not me talking about him asking to bathe children, or keeping doors closed.

People make these comments......if they're factual then I think we can both agree that it makes a difference.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by Kololi on 26.03.10 13:03

Hi
In response to the "how many mothers would" questions.

How many mothers and fathers would agree to a family friend sexually abusing their child?

Seriously, I cannot imagine that the McCanns agreed to go on this holiday with this sort of response, "yes we would love to come and we will bring Maddie too, nudge nudge, wink wink".

I am guessing that if Mr Amaral has evidence of one of the party being a child molester that at least one of the following occured:

1. All the children were examined and proof of sexual abuse was found.
2. The child molester within the party has confessed to being a child molester.
3. The appropriate British authorities confirmed to Mr Amaral that this child molester within the party is known to them as a child molester.
4. Mr Amaral hung a lot on Mrs Gaspar's statement.

If Madeleine was a sexually abused child surely people like her Granny or nursery teachers would have had suspicions or concerns long before the holiday ever happened.

Take care

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by kangdang on 26.03.10 13:21

@vaguely1 wrote:
@sue xx wrote:
@kathyBelle wrote:Obviously Mr Amaral would have to base his evidence on what Katherine Gaspar told the police, because Mr Amaral, was not there when David Payne had supposedly made his paedophilia gestures about Madeleine, to Gerry McCann.

Mr Amaral will no doubt wonder, why the McCanns not only stayed silent, over this serious allegation, but let David Payne bathe their children.

I don't understand, why David Payne would bathe the McCanns children, it isn't as though the McCanns weren't able to bathe their children themselves.

More to the point, I don't understand why David Payne would even want to bathe the McCanns children. Just as I don't understand why Gerry McCann, sent David Payne to their apartment, to check on his wife and children, instead of going himself.

David Payne and Kate McCann, both gave conflicting statements, about how long David Payne was in their apartment.

So many lies have been told in this sad case and all to save the McCanns own skins.





Morning kath and well said . I to have wonderd why gerry sent payne to check on his wife ,strange one that .also why was he bathing the McCanns kiddies . You dont let men bath your kids unless it`s their father ,,Yuk That is perverted in my book ...

I wonder how many woman would let their next door neighbour come in and bath their kids Mmmmm.
.


He was a family friend, not a neighbour. I don't imagine many people would let their neighbours bathe their children, but I'm guessing that people have bathed other people's children in that sort of situation.

Who knows, maybe it makes a difference. Sounds like all the kids were bundled in together - rather than DP specifically being tasked with bathing only Madeleine...which would of course be odd.

Maybe it's because i'm old fashioned, still stuck in the traditional gender discourse, but i find it unusual for any man (other than the childs father) to be tasked with bathing children - be that Singularly or grouped.

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Re: The sexual innuendos of Jane Tanner

Post by vaguely1 on 26.03.10 13:23

If Madeleine was a sexually abused child surely people like her Granny or nursery teachers would have had suspicions or concerns long before the holiday ever happened.

Not necessarily so, but it would be highly likely. People who sexually abuse their children don't usually allow them the freedom of kids clubs and nurseries etc. They tend not to take the risk of being found out that way. Obviously nothing applies 100% for 100% of cases.

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