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Opinions please

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Re: Opinions please

Post by Angelique on 05.03.13 1:04

@saltnpepper wrote:Quick google & many books,i also thought it was a song only

Thank you for enlightening me - it looks lovely smilie

PS

This is the description though:


Book Description
Publication Date: 6 Mar 2003
If you're happy and you know you can clap your hands...but you can also wag your tail, snap your teeth, beat your chest, jump and boing!

This wonderfully exuberant animal romp explores different ways of expressing happiness. Young children will enjoy joining in with the animal actions in this vibrant picture book, making for very happy reading!

BLJan Ormerod is an internationally renowned author and illustrator - this is her first book to be illustrated by another artist

BLLindsey Gardiner is a rising star in the picture book world; she is best known for her charming characters Poppy and Max

This still sounds like an activity type of book?

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Re: Opinions please

Post by aiyoyo on 05.03.13 1:53

@Inspectorfrost wrote:
@averageperson wrote:I haven't seen those vids nor would want to if they are sad.

But if the accident theory is correct then K & G are prepared to let them think their granddaughter has been abducted. If they told the truth to them then how could the Grandparents stand by and watch the world look for her, the fund be set up and Amarals life be ruined. It just doesn't seem plausible.

I know, it's a case of square pegs in round holes alot of the time. What makes better sense is that K and G hid the facts from everyone, because they had no other choice. Self preservation and control. I don't think the answer to this case is very convoluted at all.

Ask yourself what would you do in that situation if your son or daughter had told you about their crime and at the same time you realised they'd mounted a tiger and they cannot get off ?
Do you ask them to get off the tiger themselves and let all hell breaks loose dragging you down?
Or do you expose them for their lies, incur the wrath of other family members and the world, still be ruined, and wont come up smelling of roses?
Or do you remain silence and wait for what will be will be.

The moment they decide to lie from the get go, it's already too late to u-turn without repercussions. Especially since they'd involved so many innocent people in their lies, if they confess now all those who helped them either unwittingly or knowingly will be dragged down. Is that a good prospect to go into?

Imagine having agreed with your holiday friends that no one will tell the truth, and having asked them at the same time to leave the process of media and investigation control to you, only for you to buckle under the pressure and tell all - wouldn't that be treason to your friends who'd helped you. And wouldn't that be a worst crime than the deed you're trying to hide?

It's too late to u-turn and they know it. They're playing reverse psychology tapping into this logic that decent and upright people would start to doubt someone involved would be able to keep up the lies for so long so therefore they must be telling the truth. What people are thinking is exactly this quality of people they are banking on, that is, messing with the psychological of decent people who because of their decent moral traits refuse to believe anyone could live a lie so publicly for so long, especially when this couple is a pair of doctors, more so people expect them to have decent values like them. They rather have faith in the human decency than believe that even doctors can be evil.

And, yes I consider the Mccanns to be evil.
Had they only lie and fleece people of their money it is felony, but when they sue innocent people, vowing to destroy them completely and wanting them to feel fear, that is pure evil. I have no doubt Kate is pure evil because she expressed her evilness in her bewk for the whole world to read.




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Re: Opinions please

Post by aiyoyo on 05.03.13 1:57

@averageperson wrote:I haven't seen those vids nor would want to if they are sad.

But if the accident theory is correct then K & G are prepared to let them think their granddaughter has been abducted. If they told the truth to them then how could the Grandparents stand by and watch the world look for her, the fund be set up and Amarals life be ruined. It just doesn't seem plausible.

I suspect they would not have told their family they were suing Amaral or TB. More so they wouldn't have told family members any detail of the suit or the mess they find themselves in now that they boat has set sail stranded in the middle of the ocean and about to sink to the bottom of the ocean.

Their relationship with their family must be estranged because of what they did, then the last thing they would do is to tell their family members they were going to sue so and so and whose life they avowed to ruin. Lawyers and a very selected few implicated with them may be the only ones they told and consulted when they sue individuals. Dont be surprised family members found out about their litigations second hand through the press.


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Re: Opinions please

Post by tigger on 05.03.13 6:56

Re the discussion on jogging/running soon after the disappearance - it can only be seen in the context of how often they were running normally.
I.e. at home - what was the routine?

I can't recall any mention in the book of the McCanns having regular runs in the UK - yet here they are, with the eyes of the world on them, journalists snapping their every move and taking pictures that could go into the celebrity section of the Mail no trouble.

Comparative data are useful. I would have been more impressed if they'd used this energy to take long walks around PdL, trying to 'feel' where Maddie was last. Especially since both abductors were seen on foot. I'd have been round every inch of the place, hoping to find something.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by aiyoyo on 05.03.13 8:34

@tigger wrote:Re the discussion on jogging/running soon after the disappearance - it can only be seen in the context of how often they were running normally.
I.e. at home - what was the routine?

I can't recall any mention in the book of the McCanns having regular runs in the UK - yet here they are, with the eyes of the world on them, journalists snapping their every move and taking pictures that could go into the celebrity section of the Mail no trouble.

Comparative data are useful. I would have been more impressed if they'd used this energy to take long walks around PdL, trying to 'feel' where Maddie was last. Especially since both abductors were seen on foot. I'd have been round every inch of the place, hoping to find something.

Yeap, the last thing on my mind would be jogging when I can spend every second trying looking to see what clues have been left behind by the abductor.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by rainbow-fairy on 05.03.13 8:45

@averageperson wrote:Ref the dogs... I do not understand some of the findings. Call me thick but I just don't. if they were clear then surely the McCans would be in prison now. From what I can make out, please correct if I am wrong, they were inconclusive.
SY have said that they believe Maddie could still be alive and living with an abductor. So they either are going down that road anyway or are deliberately putting false info out there to the MC's or they are no closer to the truth either. I would just hate for this to go on and on for years and years and years. We all want to know what has happened to this little girl and I can't bear the thought she is in some pedo ring, still now as I type.
Hi averageperson (you shouldn't put yourself down by the way! Wink), I won't get into the dogs as I'm only on p2 (or is it 3) as someone may have put forward links, I'll just say I believe them 100%, samples were taken and Eddie was never wrong in 200 cases.

Just to refer to your last line. I have done extensive research into paedophilia for both personal reasons and this case. Maddie was not yet four. It would be almost unheard of for a child that age to be kept in a paedophile 'ring'.
Gypsies don't steal children to order for paedophiles, children in the gypsy world are kept as pure as, it would be a total anathema to them
Opportunist stranger paedo or not, she would have been dead within hours or days.

Also, you ask how people could keep up a lie for 5,6 years. Savile and the BBC did for 60.

Re Philomena's legendary slip, I don't think her brain, before she opened mouth, was referring to a 'live' child sadly...

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Re: Opinions please

Post by averageperson on 05.03.13 10:00

Thank you for your responses to my post.

I said at the very beginning on here that I only started researching a few weeks ago. I didn't know the half of it. That is why I question things more than anything. I also stated that I DO believe the MC's have something very big to hide and had that thought from almost the beginning that to be so.
I WANTED it to be a fairy story ending though simply because a child is involved and the thought of her in any terror makes me ill. The crying alone disturbs me to the point of tears. I like many have trouble sleeping thinking of horrifying stories and that's why after a while I give in to just pushing it to the back of my mind. I don't want to do this. I am appalled in myself that I wasn't aware of the trauma GA has been through and disgusted that we are banned from reading his book. I had no idea we were being deprived of info on someone else's say so. I find this abhorrent!!!

I had some queries and they have been answered.
My queries ref the dogs at the start of joining was more tech related I suppose. I have now been fulfilled in those queries so thank you. I now am without any doubt that the little girl sadly is dead and that she died in or around apartment 5A.
My happy ending is over but naturally it has been replaced with the next best scenario for MM. That she fell and was knocked unconscious and then died. That is only because I can not bear for her to have suffered. Thats the thing with me and everyone else I have ever known. We don't like sad tales. It's natural to want to make ugly thoughts go away.

Without doubt the MC's have committed many crimes since that day and before should it be that the children were sedated. Was there not a recent case of a child dying due to over use of long term calpol?
The twins were checked for sedation but 8 months after the fact, is that correct? Surely it would not show up at this point?

I just so hope more than anything that AG does not settle out of court and that we may finally get to hear about what happened to MM. An innocent little baba who went on holiday, to be left alone every night and then to die.

Ref the fam and friends being in on the cover up. I still wouldn't involve myself or be ableto keep quiet, watching the whole world look for her, give money to the fund etc etc. Yes and hear of them suing people left right and centre. I would crack, regardless of pressure and repercussions. Thats me however.
Maybe only a select few know and they are able to withhold feelings of care for anyone else.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by plebgate on 05.03.13 10:17

@amandaw
Please read my posts again. I do not think I said that your empathy with the running was odd.
I said we are all different and that I certainly am.

I will say again about" scrutinising" posts. I try and read posts as thoroughly as I can as you do obviously because you have come back with comments and asking questions. Therefore you are scrutinising posts.

I remember when the official files first came out. Like many I read them and started posting my own views. Never once did I ask what somebody else thought about a particular matter. I post and people are free to either reply or not. If someone posts something then they must allow others to question (as you do) what the poster means - without, I might add, launching abuse at the other poster for daring to ask that question.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by plebgate on 05.03.13 10:35

I have not read The Book but I have read from numerous sources that Mrs. said she wanted Mr. A. to feel fear. I must say I was completely shocked to read such a thing. IMO that is definitely not a nice thing to admit to.

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Jogging

Post by Trainer on 05.03.13 11:22

when people talk about the jogging sessions has anyone discussed the route taken?

Jogging would keep most of the "paps" at a distance and allow the joggers to cover a lot of ground or even keep a check on just a very important bit of ground!
No one questions the fact that runners do the same route time and time again, was it so they could check their times? As I'm sure Gerry put in his blog "knocked a few seconds of my time"
Or was it a daily check on something more sinister?

It could of course be a release of pent up anger and frustration......

What do you guys think?

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Re: Opinions please

Post by amandaw on 05.03.13 11:37

I seem to remember it was the same route. It would be crazy for them surely, to be checking up on something 'sinister'. This would have only drawn more attention. If it weren't for the bizarre behaviour and appearance, I could understand the jogging. But I just never really see these people upset. Quite the opposite. And during this time, when all was raw, the lipstick was never amiss.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by averageperson on 05.03.13 13:15

I don't see the harm in asking opinions, surely that is what can eventually help to learning the truth!
I am not one to force my opinion on people and I do like to learn others opinions, merely to see how they came to it, so that I can maybe see things differently, thus alter mine.

Everyone has their own opinion for their own reasons don't they. Maybe it's an alternate way to see things and being open to opinions is always a good thing in my book!

Anyhoo ref jogging I can't see any purpose to it. Maybe to play up to the media. You can't have your pic in the paper if you hide indoors. However who has the right to tell you how to grieve I suppose. Everything is scrutinised and TBH it is their own fault. It is the laughing and the happiness that I struggle with. Maybe they were at that time remembering something funny MM done at a particular time. I don't know what they found funny nor why there were so clumsy with their emotions. I can only assume they have none as none were really shown.

As for them being told not to show grief. Surely the whole point of an appeal is to show emotions in the hope that the perpetrator or someone who may know the perpetrator comes forward. Is that not the whole point of them.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by sallypelt on 05.03.13 13:20

In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, they went jogging so they could talk. With so much at stake, and plans needed to be made, they must have been fearful that the apartment or rooms they were staying in, were bugged.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by Guest on 05.03.13 14:43

sallypelt I agree
Running gave them the opportunity to communicate in private.
Which they needed anyhow in the 'situation they found themselves in'.

Disregarding what thát was, actually.
Thát ...could have been the 'abduction'
... could have been a fatal accident earlier
the same week
... might have been a far greater hoax in which they were only playing their parts.

All the same, good reasons to run.

I do acknowledge the positive effects of moving, running re persons struggling with depression.
It works, especially with females.

And last but not least:
Physical exercise is the best way to get rid of any traces of drug use the fastest possible way.
Awe drugs? Err no but no but yes.. .Even a lay person like me noticed the absurd wide pupils of Gerry McCann in some pics.
Yes I am Dutch and proud of it:-)

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Re: Opinions please

Post by averageperson on 05.03.13 15:33

I do wonder what MC meant when he states that the whole conspiracy started in London.
Just been reading the sliding quotes at the top of this page.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by averageperson on 05.03.13 15:45

and the quote that the British Priest staged everything.
Can anyone point me in the direction to read more about these please. Thanks

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Re: Opinions please

Post by Miraflores on 05.03.13 15:59

@averageperson wrote:I do wonder what MC meant when he states that the whole conspiracy started in London.
Just been reading the sliding quotes at the top of this page.

My gut feeling is that the children were sedated, and something went wrong, causing Madeleine's demise. The first few weeks the McCanns were winging it a bit - hence Kate's admission that she hadn't searched but had been working very hard. Later, back in London, they realised that this didn't look good and that they had better sort out their stories.

When I first heard of the 'abduction' my first thought was that they should have asked the twins what if anything they had seen. Even something like, 'big scary man came and took Maddie' might have been a help, but to my knowledge no one ever did ask the twins anything. (And that wasn't because they couldn't talk, as I think may have been claimed, because I am pretty sure they are on record as being able to talk by then.)

Perhaps I am just too cynical....

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Re: Opinions please

Post by plebgate on 05.03.13 16:11

Having read Miraflores post and the bit about having to change their stories reminded me of the statement changes.
Last night I was watching a re-run of Law and Order Uk. Long story short - woman in dock because she was alleged to have killed a policeman.
The police had interviewed her husband and he had given a statement but then after a few weeks had changed the statement. Of course when he was questioned in court the prosecutor inevitably asked in which statement was he lying and how could anybody believe a word he said.
Which of course is what would happen in a real life court.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by Casey5 on 05.03.13 16:25

Hi averageperson, the problem is that the average person in the UK knows only what the media have allowed them to know about the McCann case which is very little that is detrimental to them.

Given that the vast majority aren't interested in the case, we all have family members who raise their eyes in a weary fashion if the name McCann is mentioned , and those who are either feel the McCanns don't behave like parents of an abducted child but don't know many details of the case or believe the McCanns have been treated disgracefully by everyone from the police, the media and especially the Portuguese Judiciary and particularly the "hate-filled loonies" who inhabit forum like this one.

The night Madeleine "disappeared" none of them really searched like normal people would. They drew up time-lines which they hadn't been asked to do, instead of following the route of Jane Tanner's sighting, they all went to bed at 2.30a.m -including the McCanns, Gerry actually fell asleep but not Kate!!! As you would if your child was missing.

Since then the whole of PDL could have been searched by teams of family members using their holidays and free time to to look for Madeleine but not one of them has ever done so. I find that totally disturbing and that implies knowledge that Madeleine isn't findable.

And then the way that lawyers and a barrister were drafted in during the very early days to protect their backs, make Madeleine a Ward of Court and the comparison between their hugely experienced and hugely expensive legal teams both in the UK and Portugal working as defence lawyers for the McCanns' and the pathetic- although costly - private investigators, not one single team with any experience of finding missing children, that they have used to find their daughter tells a story all of it's own.
And then the dogs, oh how they would love us all to forget about those damned dogs.
And Goncalo Amaral, if only he had crumbled and fell by the wayside- if only.
I think the McCanns have always had luck on their side but maybe it's beginning to run out. We wait in hope.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by saltnpepper on 05.03.13 17:33

@sallypelt wrote:In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, they went jogging so they could talk. With so much at stake, and plans needed to be made, they must have been fearful that the apartment or rooms they were staying in, were bugged.

My thoughts too...Also the church seemed a good place to talk away from prying ears...who knows what route they took but if the Renault scenic boot is used as an indicator then a jog away to keep an eye on the the 'fridge/freezer'

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Re: Opinions please

Post by amandaw on 05.03.13 19:51

Opinions please.
Mr Benett has his booklet as his background pic for his Twitter profile. Vulnerable?

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Re: Opinions please

Post by bobbin on 05.03.13 19:59

@amandaw wrote:Opinions please.
Mr Benett has his booklet as his background pic for his Twitter profile. Vulnerable?
What's your opinion amandaw? I would be as interested in hearing your opinions as you would be to hear everyone else's.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by amandaw on 05.03.13 20:01

Vulnerable. As I have already said. And yours?

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Re: Opinions please

Post by bobbin on 05.03.13 20:04

@amandaw wrote:Vulnerable. As I have already said. And yours?
vulnerable to what?

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Re: Opinions please

Post by pennylane on 05.03.13 20:10

@bobbin wrote:
@amandaw wrote:Vulnerable. As I have already said. And yours?
vulnerable to what?

I'm puzzled too bobbin

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