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Having met Dan in the car

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Inspectorfrost on 22.02.13 19:55

@rolodog wrote:I am not saying anything was covered up---just that the little voices get dismissed as hearsay---and 20 years later--they were right.

We (the public) did not know Maddie was left for such long periods until Aug 2008.

DUMBFOUNDED knew-----July 2007

Vera knew---March 2008

How?
Because they were there

But Chaplins has not been confirmed in the files

And why wasMrs Fenn not interviewed till 20 August 2007? When all was done and dusted, with the dogs and everything, if Vera knew all this and went to police straight away

no worries will all come out in the wash some day soon hopefully

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 20:03

I am just baffled how those two posters revealed shocking details (children being left for LONG periods ---drinking much further afield) than the general public knew.

Then I look at the balcony---the white plastic chairs---and the long treacherous drop----and I think then "Well it's bloody obvious what happened"

I think she did'nt die until Thursday which neccessitated the frantic comings and goings that night.

Sorry Maddie. It feels horrible talking about you like this

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by bobbin on 22.02.13 20:05

@Nina wrote:
@bobbin wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
@bobbin wrote:
@rolodog wrote:when the crying stopped that Tuesday and Mrs Fenn heard the patio door---she thought that is when the parents came back.

I think that was actually Maddie LEAVING -- to go and find her parents. Made a ladder with the white plastic chair--not realising the treacherous drop on the other side.

Would the blind have been up though for her to open the door. The fact that Fiona and Rachel say the blind was down at the patio door on the night of the 3rd could mean either that they guessed and got it wrong, that it was down on the 3rd but that it was not necessarily down every night, 1st May being a possibility.
If Mrs. Fenn heard the patio door open at the time of the crying stopping, then the blind must have been up, and it could be that someone had been with Maddie, she had gone silent, and that person had left.
What does it mean though if Kate's phone pinged in the apartment at just before that time, if the phone records and analysis are correct.
I do recall again, Kate referring to pruning the plants/ bush and I thought that it could have been the bougainvillea by the wall beneath the patio, because traces of blood had been found on some of the spikes.
Information that was about but I can't find it anymore
. Does anyone else have any memories of this.

I have never read that bobbin, and I have been around since the early days. There is nothing in the PJ files to suggest blood was found beneath the patio, only Eddie alerting to a weak scent. I can't imagine anyone pruning when they were only in the apartment for a few days. Let's face it they were hardly in the apartment, what with the sports in the daytime, and out at night. There is something in the files about the villa they stayed in about someone (cleaner?) saying they thought there were more plants planted than they could remember, but IIRC the gardener said it looked the same to him. That is just from memory.
I'll have to go hunting but if anyone else has memories. I just remember it because I am a gardener but thought it odd that anyone on holiday would do that. But Kate did clean and wash and I felt it was an odd comment.
If it did exist it will probably be gone but I'll have a little look.

Hi Bobbin. i ccertainly remember about Kate pruning the plant and discussing it myself as I have many such plants and to 'prune' other than the very new and tender shoots would require the use of secateurs and also gloves, as these plants are covered in very nasty spines. I have the scars to prove. I think it was on MCF though where it was discussed. I will have a look around. But yes it was Kate, on the monday if I remember correctly and it was in the diary.
The other plantings were in the villa they moved to.

Edit to add the link. it was the Sunday and it is in her diary. http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/kate-mccanns-diary/

Thanks Nina, I've been bending my head round this. Sunday seems early for the problem, but the dates are either mixed around a bit, or events may have happened earlier than estimated. Below, diary then blog with comment re kate pruning, then FFS report that branches from below patio were analysed but no blood found. Was that because it had been pruned away already.

http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/kate-mccanns-diary/
Sun 29.04.07
Breakfast Millennium Restaurant
? pruning of hedge
Morning Kids Club
10:00 morning talking over coffee, I went along to tennis

Lunch sandwiches
F balcony and Dave
Kids Club afternoon
Seated in deck-chairs F A A

K and G run – Beach 16:00
High tea
Recreational area
Rest.: No Matt

Monday 30.04.07
Breakfast apartment? apartment cleaning

Kids clubs:
Tennis 09.15-10.15 K
G 10.15-11.15
*? washing machine / blinds

Lunch – our apartment then balcony F and Dave
Kids club?? beach (note: was this the day Maddie came out after only 15 mins)
+ / – 16.00 K run 25 min.
16:30 Tennis lessons
High tea
18:30? tennis night for women
Recreational area
Afternoon: K and J Supermarket
Rest. – everyone

Tuesday 01.05.2007 (holiday)

Breakfast apartment
Kids club – mini-tennis
09.15-10.15 K
G 10.15-11.15
Madeleine and Ella
* Get camera
Lunch apartment
RAIN
Kids club beach, sunglasses
Ice cream
13:30
15:00 ish

Kids club? 15.15
? time not so good
? G tennis lessons – ok
High tea 16:30
? recreational area
Restaurant? object tennis
No Russell, Evie felt ill
(5D) Russ remained in apartment
Food was brought up

Wednesday- 02.05.2007
Breakfast apartment? apartment cleaning

RAIN
Kids club
Tennis postponed
wet courts


Millennium K and G – meet F, D and D

+ / – 11.30 Kate run with Matt
+ / – 40 min.
Get kids
Lunch – apartment, recreational area
Kids club
G Tennis 14.30-15.30
K 15.30-16.30 tennis? tennis lesson
? G Tennis lessons 16:30
Launching speed
? object tennis
High tea
recreational area

Rest. – No Rachael (5B)
Apartment next door
- Slightly later bedtime? 24.00
to bar
after dinner


Thursday 03.05.2007 - The day of the disappearance
Breakfast – Apartment
Comment Madeleine “Where were you (was I) when me and S cried?”
Kids club, time – check registration
09.00-09.30 12:30
Sailing (beach)
Wash M top of pyjamas – big stain
Lunch? apartment? tea
Tennis lesson 09.15-10.15
conversation on the grass w / Russell and Nigel (the video camera)
[?] Minutes of tennis
K
? get Madeleine
J and Fiona (Scarlett)
Then pick up S and A
(? Meeting there with G)

Breakfast – apartment -? balcony
? recreational area – ok
Afternoon / Kids club – a bit later
K Ella already there
Swimming – indoors pool
K and G – practice tennis then lesson and coach Dan
15.30 – 16.30
Julian appeared – continued to play with Gerry
I went to run beach
(rest of the group on the beach)
Gerry went to meet the kids for high tea at Tapas. I joined them after
running.

+ / – 17.20-17.30 (note: not on CCTV though)
[Strikethrough text illegible]
M very tired and quiet
Since Ella was taken from the KC beach. I was a little worried that she was sad
to have been alone. (Not realised that the group had gone to the beach.)

She said she was fine.
She asked me to pick her up and said she was tired.
I picked her up and carried her to the apartment with G and S and A
Prepared bath as kids tired and men’s tennis night at 18.00.
I considered returning to the recreation area with the kids but decided
to stay in the apartment after bath and hair wash.

G men’s tennis night

B pyjamas
Biscuits and milk for the kids – left them with this and books and games
and went to take a quick bath / wash my hair.

I got out of the bath and David was knocking on the patio doors.
I wrapped myself in a towel and went into the living room.
He asked if we wanted to go to the recreational area, since he could
help me take the kids.

Refused – since kids ready for bed.
I dressed myself.
Ate some snacks with the kids
M tired – sitting on my lap – read story of MOG
Brush teeth
To bedroom with kids
G there too – I think.
[Children's music] – M telling story
M removes and lowers head on pillow
S + A good-night kisses for M
From S and A cots x2
K gave a good-night kiss to M
Leaned the door as much as possible without closing it.
Silence
? dry hair
Make-up
Glass of wine
20:35 rest. First
to arrive

21:00 G,
Conversation with Steve

21:30 Matt,
Carolyn (Note: Carolyn is a witness who says she heard someone calling Madeleine’s name, around 21:30, as she walked
back to her apartment)

22:00 Myself,
20:40 Jane next

20:45 Matt and Rachael
Russell?
Detained
Evie feeling sick
R went for a long time
Jane replaced him


..................


YNG on Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:06
pm



A dog's olfactory system is so highly developed that it continues to be
efficient at a cellular / molecular level. They are capable of finding traces in
places
and on items where there is not always physically retrievable
evidence.


It must be difficult for some people to catch onto the
idea of what dogs are capable of.



" All training and operational work is recorded and
is evidence of the canine team’s reliability, the type and amount of training
that the team has experienced before and after certification and confirmed
operational outcomes can be used as a factor in determining their capability
."



Another reason the curtain result gave nothing
positive may be due to the actual material / stain found on the curtain could
possibly have been bacterial, in which case it would not contain the distinct
nucleus of the cells, making it impossible to identify.


One thing is certain, both dogs independently alerted
in the area behind the sofa and a biological sample was retrieved from that
same area which does not according to the report appear to conclusively rule
out Madeleine as a contributor. To disregard this as a possibility in the case
of a missing child is imo tantamount to negligence.




As for the the shrubbery , to my knowledge the shrubbery was not actually
tested as a result of the dog alerting to it.
Maybe someone should ask KM if
and why she was pruning that particular shrub





FSS report :

The curtains (286A/2007 - CR/L 16 and 16B) and the piece of white curtain
(286B/2007 - CR/L 1) and the fragments of bushes (286/2007 CR/L 21) were
examined for the presence of blood. No blood was found.


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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Inspectorfrost on 22.02.13 20:25

@rolodog wrote:I am just baffled how those two posters revealed shocking details (children being left for LONG periods ---drinking much further afield) than the general public knew.

Then I look at the balcony---the white plastic chairs---and the long treacherous drop----and I think then "Well it's bloody obvious what happened"

I think she did'nt die until Thursday which neccessitated the frantic comings and goings that night.

Sorry Maddie. It feels horrible talking about you like this

Mr Amaral referred to people going out drinking and leaving their kids to drop off balconies like fruit, it is a theory that cant be disputed actually by anything least of all by KMs book in which she says although she envied the paynes sea view, she was happy the kids were not in danger of falling over a balcony as they were on a ground floor flat unlike their mates, LIE, 5a had a balcony and a sharp drop
duh


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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by bobbin on 22.02.13 20:34

@Inspectorfrost wrote:
@rolodog wrote:I am just baffled how those two posters revealed shocking details (children being left for LONG periods ---drinking much further afield) than the general public knew.

Then I look at the balcony---the white plastic chairs---and the long treacherous drop----and I think then "Well it's bloody obvious what happened"

I think she did'nt die until Thursday which neccessitated the frantic comings and goings that night.

Sorry Maddie. It feels horrible talking about you like this

Mr Amaral referred to people going out drinking and leaving their kids to drop off balconies like fruit, it is a theory that cant be disputed actually by anything least of all by KMs book in which she says although she envied the paynes sea view, she was happy the kids were not in danger of falling over a balcony as they were on a ground floor flat unlike their mates, LIE, 5a had a balcony and a sharp drop



This comment would be a good candidate for the 'pre-emptive' thread. definitely a sensitive area.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 20:38

wow Bobbin.

That was some research.

If Kate pruned the bush----guilty

If the estate cleaners pruned the bush----innocent

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Nina on 22.02.13 20:40

@bobbin wrote:
@Inspectorfrost wrote:
@rolodog wrote:I am just baffled how those two posters revealed shocking details (children being left for LONG periods ---drinking much further afield) than the general public knew.

Then I look at the balcony---the white plastic chairs---and the long treacherous drop----and I think then "Well it's bloody obvious what happened"

I think she did'nt die until Thursday which neccessitated the frantic comings and goings that night.

Sorry Maddie. It feels horrible talking about you like this

Mr Amaral referred to people going out drinking and leaving their kids to drop off balconies like fruit, it is a theory that cant be disputed actually by anything least of all by KMs book in which she says although she envied the paynes sea view, she was happy the kids were not in danger of falling over a balcony as they were on a ground floor flat unlike their mates, LIE, 5a had a balcony and a sharp drop



This comment would be a good candidate for the 'pre-emptive' thread. definitely a sensitive area.

And the little fence on top of the low wall outside the parents bedroom patio doors was removed. That area was the ideal place for a child to step up onto to look over the pool and tapas area. In my opinion of course.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Inspectorfrost on 22.02.13 20:47

Bobbin, preemptive to what? Its a fact that cant be disputed and a proven lie
pop2


The general ignorant public might buy it but NO ONE ELSE, that includes journalists, interested various parties, locals, police, their own friends and family its like she was taking the pee

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 20:47

Inspectorfrost thats mental if Kate says that in the book. I did'nt know she had said that.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Inspectorfrost on 22.02.13 20:51

@rolodog wrote:Inspectorfrost thats mental if Kate says that in the book. I did'nt know she had said that.

You canget it from amazon on kindle for about 3.50

You can download kindle from amazon for free too and read it on your pc, there is also a search function in the book so you can check things out

i thought it was a good price to pay for research
big grin


Yes she said that as well as a load of other blox

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 20:59

Have we just caught her out in a big lie thats easily provable LOL

i have loads of pictures of the steps saved. You get a cold shiver when you think of a child negotiating them in the dark--distressed.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Inspectorfrost on 22.02.13 21:14

@rolodog wrote:Have we just caught her out in a big lie thats easily provable LOL

i have loads of pictures of the steps saved. You get a cold shiver when you think of a child negotiating them in the dark--distressed.

yea and isnt the first either
big grin

Kate and Gerrys lies are all there but trying to prove them is like nailling jelly to a wall, becuse they are so deceptive and masters at it quite a few have been nailed to date though

If the Met Police are NOT controlled and told what to do it could become very interesting,bring it on I say




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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 21:20

Soon it will become a study of how psychopaths do it. Control people, gaslighting etc.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Inspectorfrost on 22.02.13 21:24

@rolodog wrote:Soon it will become a study of how psychopaths do it. Control people, gaslighting etc.

off to google gaslighting.......

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 22:04

Bobbin

I meant that sincerely. That was amazing research. I don't know how to do links and I would't know where to look for that info. But that really does indicate guilt---if she trimmed the bush-----otherwise why on earth do it?

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Inspectorfrost on 22.02.13 22:10

@rolodog wrote:Bobbin

I meant that sincerely. That was amazing research. I don't know how to do links and I would't know where to look for that info. But that really does indicate guilt---if she trimmed the bush-----otherwise why on earth do it?

No evidence KM trimmed her bush

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 22:11

+ when my sister fell out of the window---the only thing that saved her life was she fell into shrubbery.......

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 22:12

Bobbin

I've got a horrible picture in my mind

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 22:14

sorry inspectorfrost.....

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Inspectorfrost on 22.02.13 22:16

@rolodog wrote:+ when my sister fell out of the window---the only thing that saved her life was she fell into shrubbery.......

but in this case it didnt?

As I said before there is nothing to dispute this theory happening on mY 1st apart from nanny testimonies of being with maddie on the third, could have happend on the third may though

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Inspectorfrost on 22.02.13 22:19

@rolodog wrote:sorry inspectorfrost.....
big grin
yeah sorry too liars should expect ridicule especially when ghey go on tv and talk to the masses with pathetic scenarios and libelling people, simples as meerkat says

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by bobbin on 22.02.13 22:54

@rolodog wrote:Bobbin

I meant that sincerely. That was amazing research. I don't know how to do links and I would't know where to look for that info. But that really does indicate guilt---if she trimmed the bush-----otherwise why on earth do it?
It's called teamwork. Nina put me onto the McCann files, and Tigger sent me this thread re the discussion of the creche. So interesting, especially the 15 minutes
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t5312-mmc-15-minutes-at-the-creche?highlight=15+minutes+in+the+creche

many hands make light work.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by russiandoll on 22.02.13 23:47

from bobbin's post

: Monday 30.04.07
Breakfast apartment? apartment cleaning

Kids clubs:
Tennis 09.15-10.15 K
G 10.15-11.15
*? washing machine / blinds

Lunch – our apartment then balcony F and Dave
Kids club?? beach (note: was this the day Maddie came out after only 15 mins)
+ / – 16.00 K run 25 min.
16:30 Tennis lessons
High tea
18:30? tennis night for women
Recreational area
Afternoon: K and J Supermarket
Rest. – everyone

this was indeed the afternoon when Maddie left creche at 3.30, after 15 minutes, twins remained in theirs and there is no description of activities in the book for the 2 hours until the tea time when McCann children reunited.
Who was M with during this period? Kate talks of a run starting 30 minutes after M signed out of creche. She then went straight to a tennis lesson.
Then tennis lessons plural..for her and Gerry ? Sounds like it.
So who was supervising Maddie and where was she?
based on the above she was not with either parent for quite some time.

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contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by tigger on 23.02.13 6:18

@russiandoll wrote:from bobbin's post

: Monday 30.04.07
Breakfast apartment? apartment cleaning

Kids clubs:
Tennis 09.15-10.15 K
G 10.15-11.15
*? washing machine / blinds

Lunch – our apartment then balcony F and Dave
Kids club?? beach (note: was this the day Maddie came out after only 15 mins)
+ / – 16.00 K run 25 min.
16:30 Tennis lessons
High tea
18:30? tennis night for women
Recreational area
Afternoon: K and J Supermarket
Rest. – everyone

this was indeed the afternoon when Maddie left creche at 3.30, after 15 minutes, twins remained in theirs and there is no description of activities in the book for the 2 hours until the tea time when McCann children reunited.
Who was M with during this period? Kate talks of a run starting 30 minutes after M signed out of creche. She then went straight to a tennis lesson.
Then tennis lessons plural..for her and Gerry ? Sounds like it.
So who was supervising Maddie and where was she?
based on the above she was not with either parent for quite some time.

But cutting the bushes was on the 29th - according to blog and diary - not that that means anything. Why put it in at all? Because it must have been observed and therefore needs to be explained? Like the crying incident, it may have been moved on one day.
What if the 15 mins was the first tour of duty of the sub, who had been scheduled to go somewhere else that day. I do feel that if there was a sub it would have to be right from the start.
What if Maddie wasn't in the creche on Sunday?

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by russiandoll on 23.02.13 10:26

Am going to copy this reply over to April 30th info, it does not really belong here but when the diary entry for this date was posted here I looked very closely at it...again.

There is no obligation for anyone to itemise what they did with their children during a holiday, but when one has vanished and when you claim that you believe that child and your family were being observed prior to " abduction", you will surely try to list the opportunities for such observation.
Outside the creche then..unless you believe the abductor to be a creche worker or someone obtaining info on the family movements from that worker.

Maddie was outside the creche for 2 hours afternoon Monday April 30th, and outside of parental care for a good portion of that time according to her mother's diary.
So who was caring for Maddie, what was she doing and where?

What were the adult friends doing that afternoon? Was any one of them available to mind Maddie, or were they all engaged in their activities?
If it was unusual for any of them to look after Maddie while her parents were running or at tennis, [their usual daytime activities] that person would surely remember the one occasion that he or she did this.

Am going to take a close look at what they all said they were doing on that afternoon.

Maddie was absent from creche, so present elsewhere. Unless she had vanished by that time, as has been discussed many times before.

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unrealistic.
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