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Having met Dan in the car

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by bobbin on 22.02.13 15:27

@rolodog wrote:when the crying stopped that Tuesday and Mrs Fenn heard the patio door---she thought that is when the parents came back.

I think that was actually Maddie LEAVING -- to go and find her parents. Made a ladder with the white plastic chair--not realising the treacherous drop on the other side.

Would the blind have been up though for her to open the door. The fact that Fiona and Rachel say the blind was down at the patio door on the night of the 3rd could mean either that they guessed and got it wrong, that it was down on the 3rd but that it was not necessarily down every night, 1st May being a possibility.
If Mrs. Fenn heard the patio door open at the time of the crying stopping, then the blind must have been up, and it could be that someone had been with Maddie, she had gone silent, and that person had left.
What does it mean though if Kate's phone pinged in the apartment at just before that time, if the phone records and analysis are correct.
I do recall again, Kate referring to pruning the plants/ bush and I thought that it could have been the bougainvillea by the wall beneath the patio, because traces of blood had been found on some of the spikes.
Information that was about but I can't find it anymore. Does anyone else have any memories of this.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Guest on 22.02.13 15:55

@bobbin wrote:
@rolodog wrote:when the crying stopped that Tuesday and Mrs Fenn heard the patio door---she thought that is when the parents came back.

I think that was actually Maddie LEAVING -- to go and find her parents. Made a ladder with the white plastic chair--not realising the treacherous drop on the other side.

Would the blind have been up though for her to open the door. The fact that Fiona and Rachel say the blind was down at the patio door on the night of the 3rd could mean either that they guessed and got it wrong, that it was down on the 3rd but that it was not necessarily down every night, 1st May being a possibility.
If Mrs. Fenn heard the patio door open at the time of the crying stopping, then the blind must have been up, and it could be that someone had been with Maddie, she had gone silent, and that person had left.
What does it mean though if Kate's phone pinged in the apartment at just before that time, if the phone records and analysis are correct.
I do recall again, Kate referring to pruning the plants/ bush and I thought that it could have been the bougainvillea by the wall beneath the patio, because traces of blood had been found on some of the spikes.
Information that was about but I can't find it anymore
. Does anyone else have any memories of this.

I have never read that bobbin, and I have been around since the early days. There is nothing in the PJ files to suggest blood was found beneath the patio, only Eddie alerting to a weak scent. I can't imagine anyone pruning when they were only in the apartment for a few days. Let's face it they were hardly in the apartment, what with the sports in the daytime, and out at night. There is something in the files about the villa they stayed in about someone (cleaner?) saying they thought there were more plants planted than they could remember, but IIRC the gardener said it looked the same to him. That is just from memory.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by bobbin on 22.02.13 16:04

candyfloss wrote:
@bobbin wrote:
@rolodog wrote:when the crying stopped that Tuesday and Mrs Fenn heard the patio door---she thought that is when the parents came back.

I think that was actually Maddie LEAVING -- to go and find her parents. Made a ladder with the white plastic chair--not realising the treacherous drop on the other side.

Would the blind have been up though for her to open the door. The fact that Fiona and Rachel say the blind was down at the patio door on the night of the 3rd could mean either that they guessed and got it wrong, that it was down on the 3rd but that it was not necessarily down every night, 1st May being a possibility.
If Mrs. Fenn heard the patio door open at the time of the crying stopping, then the blind must have been up, and it could be that someone had been with Maddie, she had gone silent, and that person had left.
What does it mean though if Kate's phone pinged in the apartment at just before that time, if the phone records and analysis are correct.
I do recall again, Kate referring to pruning the plants/ bush and I thought that it could have been the bougainvillea by the wall beneath the patio, because traces of blood had been found on some of the spikes.
Information that was about but I can't find it anymore
. Does anyone else have any memories of this.

I have never read that bobbin, and I have been around since the early days. There is nothing in the PJ files to suggest blood was found beneath the patio, only Eddie alerting to a weak scent. I can't imagine anyone pruning when they were only in the apartment for a few days. Let's face it they were hardly in the apartment, what with the sports in the daytime, and out at night. There is something in the files about the villa they stayed in about someone (cleaner?) saying they thought there were more plants planted than they could remember, but IIRC the gardener said it looked the same to him. That is just from memory.
I'll have to go hunting but if anyone else has memories. I just remember it because I am a gardener but thought it odd that anyone on holiday would do that. But Kate did clean and wash and I felt it was an odd comment.
If it did exist it will probably be gone but I'll have a little look.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 16:24

My quick theory about Tuesday.

9.30 Gerry is chatting up the quiz woman

This humiliates Kate so she stomps off to the apartment. F'ing tossering all the way. In the apartment she fires off some angry phone calls.(explains the empty chair and phone pings)

Of course Maddie is pleased that Mummy is back.

Kate goes steaming off to find Gerry.

Maddie alone again. She starts crying at half past 10 till 11.45.

stops crying. decides to go and find parents. opens the patio door. Makes chair ladder.

Parents screwed because they were in Chaplins.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 16:32

By this time word has got around that they are leaving the kids.

M.W. offered them FREE babysitting on Thursday. Of course they had to say no because by this time Maddie was injured/dead but they had the charade "abduction" to carry out.

I think Tuesday was a big drunken night of jealous madness----and Maddie paid the price. Toddlers and booze are not a good mix.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by russiandoll on 22.02.13 16:40

quote : Parents screwed because they were in Chaplins.

interesting theory, but I think they were screwed even if at the tapas bar because by the time they returned it was too late.

She definitely fell, imo, our little Maddie. Kate tells us as much in her book when she complains about the plummy voiced woman.

Mrs Fenn did not make enough fuss for Kate's liking. You would have thought not that a child had been stolen, but a can of beans had fallen off a shelf. Kate should logically not have changed the verb here, but the nouns, to impress the difference between a person and an object, value and lack of value.

Maddie was balancing on something, just like that can of beans. But of course she was a lot more valuable, and so her falling merited much more of a reaction.
imo of course.

eta..... or fell when she got in the way of her rowing parents, maybe, pushed accidentally or ignored when she fell in the apartment because the pair were too busy arguing. Maybe M became hysterical and was smacked to shut her up......something tragic but mundane happened imo, it is only the cover up which is complicated.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 16:51

This explains Gerry's comment. "nothing was as bad as THE NIGHT WE FOUND HER" (on the steps?)

And "The first 48 hours were the worst" (while they came up with a plan to save their necks)

I think the T9 had to go along with them because as Gerry would have pointed out ----they were ALL doing it---

I think O'Brian wanted to come clean when he wanted to change his statment but was forced back into line at the Rothley meeting.

I think O'Brian is Gerry's plan B. He is going to cast all kinds of aspertions onto O'Brian and Tanner if he is ever backed into a corner.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by russiandoll on 22.02.13 17:05

ah yes, how could we forget it......the COLLECTIVE MISTAKE.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 17:10

Bobbin

I do remember reading about Kate do a spot of gardening and it was a WTF moment. Another THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE moment.

As Russiandoll says ---they were not exactly stay at home types---maybe she was spraying some Fabreeze around.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Nina on 22.02.13 17:21

@bobbin wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
@bobbin wrote:
@rolodog wrote:when the crying stopped that Tuesday and Mrs Fenn heard the patio door---she thought that is when the parents came back.

I think that was actually Maddie LEAVING -- to go and find her parents. Made a ladder with the white plastic chair--not realising the treacherous drop on the other side.

Would the blind have been up though for her to open the door. The fact that Fiona and Rachel say the blind was down at the patio door on the night of the 3rd could mean either that they guessed and got it wrong, that it was down on the 3rd but that it was not necessarily down every night, 1st May being a possibility.
If Mrs. Fenn heard the patio door open at the time of the crying stopping, then the blind must have been up, and it could be that someone had been with Maddie, she had gone silent, and that person had left.
What does it mean though if Kate's phone pinged in the apartment at just before that time, if the phone records and analysis are correct.
I do recall again, Kate referring to pruning the plants/ bush and I thought that it could have been the bougainvillea by the wall beneath the patio, because traces of blood had been found on some of the spikes.
Information that was about but I can't find it anymore
. Does anyone else have any memories of this.

I have never read that bobbin, and I have been around since the early days. There is nothing in the PJ files to suggest blood was found beneath the patio, only Eddie alerting to a weak scent. I can't imagine anyone pruning when they were only in the apartment for a few days. Let's face it they were hardly in the apartment, what with the sports in the daytime, and out at night. There is something in the files about the villa they stayed in about someone (cleaner?) saying they thought there were more plants planted than they could remember, but IIRC the gardener said it looked the same to him. That is just from memory.
I'll have to go hunting but if anyone else has memories. I just remember it because I am a gardener but thought it odd that anyone on holiday would do that. But Kate did clean and wash and I felt it was an odd comment.
If it did exist it will probably be gone but I'll have a little look.

Hi Bobbin. i ccertainly remember about Kate pruning the plant and discussing it myself as I have many such plants and to 'prune' other than the very new and tender shoots would require the use of secateurs and also gloves, as these plants are covered in very nasty spines. I have the scars to prove. I think it was on MCF though where it was discussed. I will have a look around. But yes it was Kate, on the monday if I remember correctly and it was in the diary.
The other plantings were in the villa they moved to.

Edit to add the link. it was the Sunday and it is in her diary. http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/kate-mccanns-diary/

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 17:50

Pruning of hedge??????? on Sunday.

OR

Checking for blood spots Weds.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 17:56

I love the way they dress everything up with middle class language.

Just doing a spot of pruning (wiping blood off things)

Dining at the Tapas (boozing )

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Inspectorfrost on 22.02.13 18:02

The entry in the diary saying hedges being pruned doesnt mean KM herself did it. It seems just like an entry of events like the repair of the blinds/ washine machine instructions on the Monday (though she got the day wrong). No holiday maker does this unless it was their own flat.

Rolodog, the theory that Madeleine may have fallen over the balcony is interesting. Regarding 1st May, and your theory, the quiz mistress was at the Tapas Bar not Chaplins. Do you think they went to Chaplins afterwards then?


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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Mrs Beeton on 22.02.13 18:03

Anyone care to take a guess at 'social tennis'?

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 18:11

I definately think they went to Chaplins to carry on drinking AFTER the quiz in the Tapas.

The thing about boozers is they get the taste and don't want to stop the fun.

I remember reading that Chaplins had a half price drinks promotion on the Tuesday from half past ten to half past eleven.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 18:26

They tried to make out the quiz night was Thursday---it was Tues.

They tried to make out the argument was Wed. -- I think it was Tues.

The crying was Tues.

I will have to go over my notes but when I had waded through all the confusion I realized that they were switching events and nights around.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Inspectorfrost on 22.02.13 18:40

@rolodog wrote:I definately think they went to Chaplins to carry on drinking AFTER the quiz in the Tapas.

The thing about boozers is they get the taste and don't want to stop the fun.

I remember reading that Chaplins had a half price drinks promotion on the Tuesday from half past ten to half past eleven.

Each member of that group drank a bottle of wine every night at dinner according to GMs September statement. That was all complimentary IIRC with the meal. After on one night at least, they moved from the restaraunt to the next door bar to have more. Why would they go that long distance to Chaplins when they could drink as much as they wanted right there. I tend not to believe the story for the fact that just one internet poster has said this, has said they gave the police a statement but no such statement seems to exist and nothing else re Chaplins exists in the files. Internet googling also provides stories that they were in Chaplins on Wednesday and also that is when Mrs Fenn heard all the crying. Hearsay and contradictory as well, with no back up remains just that. it might be true but can't be taken as a given IMO.


PS It wasnt the Mccanns who claimed the quiz night was Thursday, it was the PT papers.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Trainer on 22.02.13 19:05

If it was Kate who was crying

She could have been crying maddie


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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 19:06

May be they have witness statments that are being kept back.

I think this case is a bit like the Jimmy Savile case. Witness's/statments are going to be revealed in about 20 years that they were ,indeed, in Chaplin's

but all those little voices---"Vera" ---"DUMBFOUNDED" were buried in the confusion.

Meanwhile we have to suffer the "saintification" of the Mcanns by people like the BBC (like Savile).

I have to watch the little twerp on serious news programmes---trying to shape policy.

I hope that is his downfall. Not knowing to quit while he's ahead.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Inspectorfrost on 22.02.13 19:15

@Trainer wrote:If it was Kate who was crying

She could have been crying maddie


Sounding like a child. And for all that time? I doubt it. Doesnt fit in with rolodogs theory either.


Besides, KM is not the type of person to sit anywhere for that long doing one thing, ie nothing

Rolodog I agree that things can come out years later which were covered up but I cant see any reason why the PJ would cover this up if it promoted their findings

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 19:23

Inspectorfrost

With great respect ----- they LIE in their statments. They MINIMIZE and CONFUSE.

Their first statment of May 4.

They IMPLY that they did not hear Madeleine cry because it was not that serious. Somehow they IMPLY that they were within earshot.

IF they had been at Chaplin's and they admitted it--ARRESTED ON THE SPOT.

Everything is minimized and switched.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by bobbin on 22.02.13 19:27

@Inspectorfrost wrote:
@Trainer wrote:If it was Kate who was crying

She could have been crying maddie


Sounding like a child. And for all that time? I doubt it. Doesnt fit in with rolodogs theory either.


Besides, KM is not the type of person to sit anywhere for that long doing one thing, ie nothing

Rolodog I agree that things can come out years later which were covered up but I cant see any reason why the PJ would cover this up if it promoted their findings

The PJ haven't covered anything up if they have kept statements back. They will be keeping their valuable powder dry.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by Inspectorfrost on 22.02.13 19:35

@bobbin wrote:
@Inspectorfrost wrote:
@Trainer wrote:If it was Kate who was crying

She could have been crying maddie


Sounding like a child. And for all that time? I doubt it. Doesnt fit in with rolodogs theory either.


Besides, KM is not the type of person to sit anywhere for that long doing one thing, ie nothing

Rolodog I agree that things can come out years later which were covered up but I cant see any reason why the PJ would cover this up if it promoted their findings

The PJ haven't covered anything up if they have kept statements back. They will be keeping their valuable powder dry.

Maybe but if it was powder why not show it at the time

Ok Rolodog I understand your suspicions, we all have them, I just disagree with you about taking hearsay as fact thats all, hearsay has taken us all on wild goose chases over the years, wasted time, and got nowhere basically if you see what I mean

You can run with theories but if theres nothing concrete to go on they invariably peter out, JMO

No offense was ever meant

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 19:37

May be Amaral has cast iron witness statments but untill the case is re-opened they have to lay on file.

I don't know how these things work.

But if they WERE seen further away------they are shown up as liars.

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Re: Having met Dan in the car

Post by rolodog on 22.02.13 19:45

I am not saying anything was covered up---just that the little voices get dismissed as hearsay---and 20 years later--they were right.

We (the public) did not know Maddie was left for such long periods until Aug 2008.

DUMBFOUNDED knew-----July 2007

Vera knew---March 2008

How?

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