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Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by bobbin on 19.02.13 14:56

@nobodythereeither wrote:
@sombrero wrote:I dont understand Portuguese law but there could well be a chance that this case is adjourned again.

I cant see GA conceeding but a settlement would favour both parties because I dont believe that KM/GM would want a libel case with GA evidence read out to the world whereas GA might settle on the basis of KM/GM withdrawing the case on the basis of both parties bearing their own costs.

Such a simple settlement would allow KM/GM to "spin" and would leave GA with no financial loss (apart from his own costs to date) and he can say that KM/GM have conceeded or withdrawn.

Just my 2p's worth of guessing.

xxxx

Why on earth, after all this, would Sr Amaral want to reach a "simple settlement that would allow KM/GM to spin" ????

Sombrero, would you concede and be happy to pay the costs of a legal case that you did not instigate?
If you were clearly winning, as Goncalo Amaral is, why would you just lie down and let the people who have walked all over your life just get off scot free.
They don't even have to pay their costs.
These are paid by little old pensioners, young children, and multi-millionaires who for some reason happen to know Metodo 3 whom they recommended to the McCanns to launder find their money daughter.
For a recent poster, you seem unaware of the long battle and suffering, professionally, publicly, financially and in family relationships that Sr. Amaral has had to endure.
I am sure you must just be testing the serious posters here with such a suggestion.
The aim is to get the feckless McCanns into court where it might finally become evident what happened the day their little girl just evaporated into the ether.
No-one is going to let that possibility just be cast away.
Nothing for Sr. Amaral here to lose.

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by southern_gal on 19.02.13 15:22

@sombrero wrote:You have to look at this from GA point of view.

What happens if he loses? Reputation and Costs which could be substantial.

An agreement which is on the basis of KM/GM withdrawing the case and both parties bearing their own costs would give him the satisfaction of KM/GM withdrawing from the case.

If this case was in UK KM/GM could withdraw at any stage. I guess in Portugal its the same. Under such circumstances (in UK) they could/would have a liability for costs.

GA's reputation has already been attacked and dragged through the mud and suffered a great deal of costs both monetary and personally. Mind you that GA has suffered these costs simply for doing his job and refusing to be controlled or manipulated. So why should he be satisfied with the McCann's withdrawal of this suit? The McCann's deliberately and with willful intent attempted to destroy this man's character, reputation and professional/personal life. They fed the tiger, now let them feel it's roar.

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by Lostfridge on 19.02.13 15:24

@sombrero wrote:You have to look at this from GA point of view.

What happens if he loses? Reputation and Costs which could be substantial.

An agreement which is on the basis of KM/GM withdrawing the case and both parties bearing their own costs would give him the satisfaction of KM/GM withdrawing from the case.

If this case was in UK KM/GM could withdraw at any stage. I guess in Portugal its the same. Under such circumstances (in UK) they could/would have a liability for costs.

I am with you on this sombrero. friends. I think GA would not put pride before ultimate justice how ever long it takes, he appears confident the SY review is not going the Mccanns way and still believes in the Portuguese system. It maybe the best idea to avoid a court case, get his assets unfrozen and concentrate on a new book and play the long game. Only he knows what he is up against and I trust he will make the right decision.

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by tigger on 19.02.13 15:25

Dr. Amaral has a sense of honour. When he said on Panorama last year that he wrote the book to clear his name, that was perfectly true imo.

He will not back down and take a 'behind the scenes' settlement if that means his good name will not be cleared in public.

Honour, a concept so unfashionable it will have to be explained to a great many, not least the McCanns.

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by Inspectorfrost on 19.02.13 15:43

@sombrero wrote:You have to look at this from GA point of view.

What happens if he loses? Reputation and Costs which could be substantial.

An agreement which is on the basis of KM/GM withdrawing the case and both parties bearing their own costs would give him the satisfaction of KM/GM withdrawing from the case.

If this case was in UK KM/GM could withdraw at any stage. I guess in Portugal its the same. Under such circumstances (in UK) they could/would have a liability for costs.

I can't see any basis for this whatsoever. Some of their claims are so highly exagerrated to the extreme, see article three quarters of the way down called Torn Apart by HIS Lies. I especially like the article titled it wasn't Mr Amaral who sniffed their car.
big grin


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id244.html

It really is not getting through to many... You can't sue a policeman for doing his job. And you cant go around trying to destroy a man because the police thought you were involved. Especially when you have never been cleared of involvement and especially when the police and the judiciary have never said there was any evidence of an abduction.



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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by PeterMac on 19.02.13 16:12

There is also in Portugal, the concept of Malicious prosecution. More fully described and references on JMs site.

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by Lostfridge on 19.02.13 16:13

Goncalo Amaral has posted this on his FB wall: "Our beliefs are based on professional experience, on facts and evidence collected and their interpretation in the light of the law. Our work was developed with the goal of achieving justice through the pursuit of material truth, which alone must prevail against a universe that makes ordinary truth from falsehood."

It is verified that this was posted as his status today. thumbsup

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by Lostfridge on 19.02.13 16:15

@Inspectorfrost wrote:
@sombrero wrote:You have to look at this from GA point of view.

What happens if he loses? Reputation and Costs which could be substantial.

An agreement which is on the basis of KM/GM withdrawing the case and both parties bearing their own costs would give him the satisfaction of KM/GM withdrawing from the case.

If this case was in UK KM/GM could withdraw at any stage. I guess in Portugal its the same. Under such circumstances (in UK) they could/would have a liability for costs.

I can't see any basis for this whatsoever. Some of their claims are so highly exagerrated to the extreme, see article three quarters of the way down called Torn Apart by HIS Lies. I especially like the article titled it wasn't Mr Amaral who sniffed their car.
big grin


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id244.html

It really is not getting through to many... You can't sue a policeman for doing his job. And you cant go around trying to destroy a man because the police thought you were involved. Especially when you have never been cleared of involvement and especially when the police and the judiciary have never said there was any evidence of an abduction.



You forget that the McCanns appear to be able to do what the hell they like. A phone call or two to the Prime Minister and you can have the lead coordinator sacked (allegedly!)

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by bobbin on 19.02.13 16:19

@Lostfridge wrote:
@Inspectorfrost wrote:
@sombrero wrote:You have to look at this from GA point of view.

What happens if he loses? Reputation and Costs which could be substantial.

An agreement which is on the basis of KM/GM withdrawing the case and both parties bearing their own costs would give him the satisfaction of KM/GM withdrawing from the case.

If this case was in UK KM/GM could withdraw at any stage. I guess in Portugal its the same. Under such circumstances (in UK) they could/would have a liability for costs.

I can't see any basis for this whatsoever. Some of their claims are so highly exagerrated to the extreme, see article three quarters of the way down called Torn Apart by HIS Lies. I especially like the article titled it wasn't Mr Amaral who sniffed their car.



http://www.mccannfiles.com/id244.html

It really is not getting through to many... You can't sue a policeman for doing his job. And you cant go around trying to destroy a man because the police thought you were involved. Especially when you have never been cleared of involvement and especially when the police and the judiciary have never said there was any evidence of an abduction.



You forget that the McCanns appear to be able to do what the hell they like. A phone call or two to the Prime Minister and you can have the lead coordinator sacked (allegedly!)

perhaps that should read as 'were once able' to do what the hell they like. Surely the notable, growing changes in attitude and events are evident.

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by Mirage on 19.02.13 16:54

@bobbin wrote:
@Lostfridge wrote:
@Inspectorfrost wrote:
@sombrero wrote:You have to look at this from GA point of view.

What happens if he loses? Reputation and Costs which could be substantial.

An agreement which is on the basis of KM/GM withdrawing the case and both parties bearing their own costs would give him the satisfaction of KM/GM withdrawing from the case.

If this case was in UK KM/GM could withdraw at any stage. I guess in Portugal its the same. Under such circumstances (in UK) they could/would have a liability for costs.

I can't see any basis for this whatsoever. Some of their claims are so highly exagerrated to the extreme, see article three quarters of the way down called Torn Apart by HIS Lies. I especially like the article titled it wasn't Mr Amaral who sniffed their car.



http://www.mccannfiles.com/id244.html

It really is not getting through to many... You can't sue a policeman for doing his job. And you cant go around trying to destroy a man because the police thought you were involved. Especially when you have never been cleared of involvement and especially when the police and the judiciary have never said there was any evidence of an abduction.



You forget that the McCanns appear to be able to do what the hell they like. A phone call or two to the Prime Minister and you can have the lead coordinator sacked (allegedly!)

perhaps that should read as 'were once able' to do what the hell they like. Surely the notable, growing changes in attitude and events are evident.

I'm liking the use of the past tense, Bobbin.

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by Inspectorfrost on 19.02.13 17:04

Definitely past tense!

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by Spaniel on 19.02.13 18:01

@tigger wrote:Dr. Amaral has a sense of honour. When he said on Panorama last year that he wrote the book to clear his name, that was perfectly true imo.

He will not back down and take a 'behind the scenes' settlement if that means his good name will not be cleared in public.

Honour, a concept so unfashionable it will have to be explained to a great many, not least the McCanns.
I think you are forgetting survival tigger. Plus Amaral is a flawed hero.

He and the PJ made a right mess of this at the beginning. Had they not, the case would have been closed and some in prison by now.

They should have taken each of the T9 to different police stations, not given 24 hours notice to the pair that they would be interviewed.
Swabs should have been taken from everyone's fingernails, particularly the parents, to establish, blood, skin, cleaning chemicals, whatever. That is how a picture is built.

At some stage, Amaral realised what he was dealing with, but too late. In life it's rare to get more than one bite of the cherry and he had missed it.

I don't consider him a hero, but one who allowed the guilty to get away with it.

That is not to say I don't wish him well in Court against them. No matter what I think about him ..
.. My friend is the enemy of my enemy.

BTW Tony, did Amaral ever send you a note of thanks or receipt for your donation?

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by Inspectorfrost on 19.02.13 18:17

Flawed hero? No one is callong him a hero apart from praisinghim for standing his ground in theface of bullying threats and nasty litigation


The flaws were some in the British establishment, disgusting media and other areas, including the lies from the Mccann family, and the Mccanns attacking him,and the police from day ONE until now

All the flaws are on the other side. Always have been, always will be.

Lets not forget it was the Mccanns and friends who first contaminated the crime scene and then allowed others to continue doing so, even before they called the police, then complain the crime scene wasnt sealed off, put out false stories to their relatives, tried to control the whole investigation from the beginning and tried to silence people from speaking, horrible pair, they deserve everything they will get


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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by Guest on 19.02.13 20:09

@Spaniel wrote: [...]

BTW Tony, did Amaral ever send you a note of thanks or receipt for your donation?
***
I don't know why you ask Tony, Spaniel.
But I let you know, that - yes - he did to me ...
What's the matter?

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by Guest on 19.02.13 20:18

Châtelaine wrote:
@Spaniel wrote: [...]

BTW Tony, did Amaral ever send you a note of thanks or receipt for your donation?
***
I don't know why you ask Tony, Spaniel.
But I let you know, that - yes - he did to me ...
What's the matter?


For chrissake, stop squabbling, all of U.

This thing is bigger than all of our frumpy little egoes put together.

Remember:

United we stand,
Divided we fall.


I recognise tempers are frayed, but unnecessarily so.

Dr Amaral is in full control.
Mr. Bennett can rely on British Justice being meeted out to him.


This is what we call democracy.

OK all of you guys & dolls: sit back and relax.

JUSTICE WILL BE SEEN TO BE DONE

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by Guest on 19.02.13 20:44

I genuinely object to be associated with a "frumpy little ego", Portia.

And as much as I have liked to be on this forum, where there's lots of traffic, ideas, research, disssection and the lot, I will take my leave for a while and not comment, apart from an occasional PM to some people I can confide in. I've had enough poured on my head by frustrated other ones.

Good night.

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by pennylane on 19.02.13 21:32

Châtelaine wrote:I genuinely object to be associated with a "frumpy little ego", Portia.

And as much as I have liked to be on this forum, where there's lots of traffic, ideas, research, disssection and the lot, I will take my leave for a while and not comment, apart from an occasional PM to some people I can confide in. I've had enough poured on my head by frustrated other ones.

Good night.

Please just hang in there with us Châtelaine.... your views are much appreciated!

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by McCant on 19.02.13 21:52

The McCanns’ legal team won’t be looking forward to their trip to Lisbon. It sounds like Tony Bennett alone had too much fire power for them, and over a relatively minor issue; but that’s nothing compared to what Amaral and his team will have lined up for them...



...

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by Guest on 19.02.13 21:55

Châtelaine wrote:I genuinely object to be associated with a "frumpy little ego", Portia.

And as much as I have liked to be on this forum, where there's lots of traffic, ideas, research, disssection and the lot, I will take my leave for a while and not comment, apart from an occasional PM to some people I can confide in. I've had enough poured on my head by frustrated other ones.

Good night.

Chatelaine, ver very dear,

You have done a tremendous job.

Love 2 C-U back XX


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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by aiyoyo on 20.02.13 5:28

Not one bit surprised that the case goes back to court for trial. It was just quicker than I'd expected it to be.
Historically, this must be the quickest turnaround time for an Out of Court Settlement to have failed and reverted back to Court.
Since the Court has set aside a 6-month max. suspension time, effective it means negotiation can last no more than 6-months max, then it would mean earlier reconvene is possible if negotiation failed (and neither party wished any longer to continue with it) before the deadline is up. The trial can be any time from now, as soon as it is practicable for this to be slotted into the Court's schedules, depending on availability of Judge.

So it went like this:

Team Mccanns asked for the adjournment ie expressing desire to settle with Amaral Out of Court, meaning on his terms, as it is common knowledge that retreating party have to meet terms of the other party.

Team Amaral taken completely surprise by the sudden turn of event asked for 20 days to come up with a list of terms for the retreating party.
On sighting the long list which likely includes (amongst other terms) prominently as top priority "the mccanns are to issue a full front page public apology to Team Amaral in the UK and Portugal Press and media".

Hell will freeze over first before the arrogant lying pair would accept that. To ask them to recompense by money to team Amaral would be less of a problem because they are sitting comfortably on other people's money and blood money, plus they have an unfailing rich supporter willing to bear the financial burden for them.

So, since they wouldn't and couldn't agree to Team Amaral's terms they must have been told "SEE YOU IN COURT".

Now the show is about to start.

I believe the Out of Court settlement is not about mccanns making concessions to Amaral - not at all. In fact it is the opposite.
It is about the mccanns having been advised their case has no leg to stand and on legal advice proposed to adjourn to see whether they can accept team Amaral's terms. There is no logic for team Amaral to agree to concessions (if any, even if the drowning pair have the galls to attempt that) since they were prepared to go all the way. Conversely it was the Mccanns who chickened out practically at the Court's door so they must accept Team Amaral's terms or let the proceedings they'd instigated to run its course in Court - they cant stop that unless they apply to formally to withdraw their libel case. I suspect even if they wished to do now, it is too late, since there had been two or is it three intervening cases ( book injunction subsequently lifted and assets freeze) related to this, and the complexity of it all means they can't back out even had they wanted to at this stage.

They had taken their boat too far out in the ocean to return to shore. They'd hoped to return with stolen treasures including the corpse of their arch enemy in it, but instead their empty boat "McCon" has hit iceberg, and sinking fast with its captain and two passengers abroad.



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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by roy rovers on 20.02.13 9:31

How much is this costing? Between Amaral and TB (plus TB full libel trial to come) must be well north of half a million. Even if they win all of these there's no way they can recover much of it and CR must still be paid and already will have been paid most of it.

We'll know when the cash runs out when CR stop acting for them. Maybe then it will be the turn of the McCs to be litigants in person.

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by tiny on 20.02.13 9:35

@roy rovers wrote:How much is this costing? Between Amaral and TB (plus TB full libel trial to come) must be well north of half a million. Even if they win all of these there's no way they can recover much of it and CR must still be paid and already will have been paid most of it.

We'll know when the cash runs out when CR stop acting for them. Maybe then it will be the turn of the McCs to be litigants in person.
I thought c r were working for free,that what kate said ,didnt she

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by Willo on 20.02.13 9:50

Just a thought. Was the deferment of Amarals case deliberate?

Maybe the McCanns fearing that Amaral might win wanted to delay the decision of that case until after they had seen Tony in court.

A loss to Mr Amaral would have maybe strengthened Tony's case quite a bit.

So the McCann's offered a settlement that clearly would not be accepted just to get those extra days that would see their case against Tony finished. As has been the case. They fancied Tony as the easier target to go one up.

Likewise it could strengthen their case against Amaral to have Tony convicted of perpetrating Amarals theories.

I find it hard to believe that the McCanns would just roll over at this stage. It's all or nothing at this moment and little games like this and the plethora of sightings are just them trying to get an edge. They are very good at it and with all the backing they have why wouldn't they be?

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by tiny on 20.02.13 9:56

@Willo wrote:Just a thought. Was the deferment of Amarals case deliberate?

Maybe the McCanns fearing that Amaral might win wanted to delay the decision of that case until after they had seen Tony in court.

A loss to Mr Amaral would have maybe strengthened Tony's case quite a bit.

So the McCann's offered a settlement that clearly would not be accepted just to get those extra days that would see their case against Tony finished. As has been the case. They fancied Tony as the easier target to go one up.

Likewise it could strengthen their case against Amaral to have Tony convicted of perpetrating Amarals theories.

I find it hard to believe that the McCanns would just roll over at this stage. It's all or nothing at this moment and little games like this and the plethora of sightings are just them trying to get an edge. They are very good at it and with all the backing they have why wouldn't they be?
The mccanns hadnt got an earthly of winning,also dont forget Mr Amaral has said there is more he knows that he hasnt spoken about yet,its funny the things that can come out in a court even if its just a libel case.

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Re: Case goes to trial - Amaral v McCanns

Post by Newintown on 20.02.13 13:06

@aiyoyo wrote:Not one bit surprised that the case goes back to court for trial. It was just quicker than I'd expected it to be.
Historically, this must be the quickest turnaround time for an Out of Court Settlement to have failed and reverted back to Court.
Since the Court has set aside a 6-month max. suspension time, effective it means negotiation can last no more than 6-months max, then it would mean earlier reconvene is possible if negotiation failed (and neither party wished any longer to continue with it) before the deadline is up. The trial can be any time from now, as soon as it is practicable for this to be slotted into the Court's schedules, depending on availability of Judge.

So it went like this:

Team Mccanns asked for the adjournment ie expressing desire to settle with Amaral Out of Court, meaning on his terms, as it is common knowledge that retreating party have to meet terms of the other party.

Team Amaral taken completely surprise by the sudden turn of event asked for 20 days to come up with a list of terms for the retreating party.
On sighting the long list which likely includes (amongst other terms) prominently as top priority "the mccanns are to issue a full front page public apology to Team Amaral in the UK and Portugal Press and media".

Hell will freeze over first before the arrogant lying pair would accept that. To ask them to recompense by money to team Amaral would be less of a problem because they are sitting comfortably on other people's money and blood money, plus they have an unfailing rich supporter willing to bear the financial burden for them.

So, since they wouldn't and couldn't agree to Team Amaral's terms they must have been told "SEE YOU IN COURT".

Now the show is about to start.

I believe the Out of Court settlement is not about mccanns making concessions to Amaral - not at all. In fact it is the opposite.
It is about the mccanns having been advised their case has no leg to stand and on legal advice proposed to adjourn to see whether they can accept team Amaral's terms. There is no logic for team Amaral to agree to concessions (if any, even if the drowning pair have the galls to attempt that) since they were prepared to go all the way. Conversely it was the Mccanns who chickened out practically at the Court's door so they must accept Team Amaral's terms or let the proceedings they'd instigated to run its course in Court - they cant stop that unless they apply to formally to withdraw their libel case. I suspect even if they wished to do now, it is too late, since there had been two or is it three intervening cases ( book injunction subsequently lifted and assets freeze) related to this, and the complexity of it all means they can't back out even had they wanted to at this stage.

They had taken their boat too far out in the ocean to return to shore. They'd hoped to return with stolen treasures including the corpse of their arch enemy in it, but instead their empty boat "McCon" has hit iceberg, and sinking fast with its captain and two passengers abroad.



Aiyoyo, you have a great way with words (as do many other posters on the forum).

I particularly like your last paragraph, it made me chuckle

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