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5A Forensics taken 04/05/07

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Re: 5A Forensics taken 04/05/07

Post by saltnpepper on 16.02.13 18:20

By the way, you look lovely (your avatar)
one or two reasons why i chose it

The McCann's certainly did not agree on that though

There was an apparent clean up of 5a but hairs were found of previous occupants & few of any of the McCanns considering they were there a week/6days,always possible they stayed in another apartment...post accident but appearing in 5A for cleaners & stage setting

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Re: 5A Forensics taken 04/05/07

Post by saltnpepper on 16.02.13 21:50

From thinking on the pre empt thread was the story of Kate McCann carefully taking out Madeleines bead,My wife has taken these out of the daughters hair after holidays & she told me that hairs come out with them
5A was pristine,the McCanns were very conscience of clenliness & hygiene but alas one toothbrush for the three children

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Re: 5A Forensics taken 04/05/07

Post by Inspectorfrost on 17.02.13 2:05

Finn wrote:
@Inspectorfrost wrote:
Charlotte Pennington was never in the flat and Jane wasnt probs Rachel wasnt either

You may well have a point here, but I find it very interesting to note why the hair samples were so different around the bed.The fact is someone left the hairs. I'm just thinking about possibilities out loud.

As for the twins, their dnA had been sampled and cross referenced by end June not mid july as you said

Can you point me to where you see this in the files? It's a very interesting observation.

Found no referenxe to Gordon hair in 5a either



We know the saliva was matched to Charlie Gordon, above is where it also matches hairs to the same DNA, type L

Probs cross wired

Re the twins dna profile results and not matching the profile derived from the pillowcase, report dated end June


THE FORENSIC SCIENCE SERVICE
WETHERBY LABORATORY, SANDBECK WAY, AUDBY LANE, WETHERBY, WEST YORKSHIRE, LS22 7DN


FORENSIC REPORT

Officer in case: Det Supt Prior

Client: Leicestershire Police, New Parks

Police reference: 07/06085 Operation TASK

Laboratory reference: 300 655 190

Order reference: 400 922 755

Scientist: Lesley Denton

Number of pages: 2

Re: Abduction of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May 2007

A DNA profile has been obtained from the reference samples of Amelie Eve McCANN (SBM/2) and Sean Michael McCANN (SBM/3).

In this case, all of the bands present in the profiles of both Amelie McCANN and Sean McCANN are represented in the combined profiles of Kate HEALY and Gerald McCANN. This is what I would expect to find if Amelie McCANN and Sean Michael McCANN were their natural children.

Neither the DNA profile of Amelie McCANN nor Sean McCANN matches that from the pillowcase (SJM/1) and therefore in my opinion, neither Amelie McCANN nor Sean McCANN can be the source of this profile.

If I can be of further assistance or you require a CJA statement please do not hesitate to contact me at the laboratory on 01937 548287.

Yours sincerely,

Lesley Ann Denton
FORENSIC SCIENTIST
Date: 28 June 2007
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm
Third entry down

Regarding the Gordons and hair found, sorry, I can't read/understand it

To those still saying no DNA of Madeleines or the twins was found after being there for six days, the flat was cleaned twice bythe cleaner that week






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Re: 5A Forensics taken 04/05/07

Post by Guest on 17.02.13 12:54

Well spotted, Inspectorfrost. It's like a labyrinth sometimes so it looks like two different samples were taken and you're right, the first batch must have come from Portugal as the twins only went back for the christening in July.

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Re: 5A Forensics taken 04/05/07

Post by Guest on 17.02.13 13:22

Finn wrote:Well spotted, Inspectorfrost. It's like a labyrinth sometimes so it looks like two different samples were taken and you're right, the first batch must have come from Portugal as the twins only went back for the christening in July.



They went back for christening of their godchildren, not the twins.

Saturday July 14

• On a short trip back to the UK, Kate and Gerry McCann attend the baptism of two of their godchildren in Skipton, north Yorkshire.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/

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Re: 5A Forensics taken 04/05/07

Post by Inspectorfrost on 17.02.13 22:10

Finn wrote:Well spotted, Inspectorfrost. It's like a labyrinth sometimes so it looks like two different samples were taken and you're right, the first batch must have come from Portugal as the twins only went back for the christening in July.

Hi Finn, you've lost me, what is the second batch?

I also note it took a month plus for the FSS to check all these samples. Gerry supplied the pillowcase to them around May 20th. Their report that it came from a child of the Mccanns was also dated end June.I have no idea when the twins samples were taken or delivered. It's not in the files. Does DNA testing on parentage take a month?

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Re: 5A Forensics taken 04/05/07

Post by tigger on 08.06.13 7:48

From Gonçalo Amaral's book: Chapter 3:


The McCanns are put up with David Payne. We want to search the accommodation of the family friends to try to pick up Madeleine's clothes, especially those she was wearing on May 3rd at 5.35pm when she returned from the day centre with her mother and the twins. Evidently, this initiative is not widely supported. The British ambassador meets with the team directing the investigation. The political and the diplomatic seem to want to prevent us from freely doing our work.
- I'm sure this check is necessary.

- The clothes? Are you mad? if I understand you properly, you want to go into the apartment to take clothes to have them analysed?

- Yes. What's the problem? It's a perfectly normal procedure in cases like this.

- Of course, but with this media hype...I don't think I have ever in my life seen so many journalists.... [..]

It didn't seem normal to us either that a couple whose child has just disappeared engages press attachés to deal with their relations with the media. It is not a question here of minimising the role of the means of communication and ignoring that a subject like this stirs up a lot of curiosity, but that constant preoccupation with the management of their communication by the parents, appeared to us, to say the least, astonishing.
unquote

Bumped this up and added the above. Busy man the Ambassador: for further information on him and his tireless efforts:

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t822-john-buck-british-ambassador-outline-of-involvement?highlight=the+ambassador
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3372-the-role-of-the-british-ambassador?highlight=the+ambassador

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Re: 5A Forensics taken 04/05/07

Post by Hobs on 08.06.13 11:39

A DNA profile has been obtained from the reference samples of Amelie Eve McCANN (SBM/2) and Sean Michael McCANN (SBM/3).

In
this case, all of the bands present in the profiles of both Amelie
McCANN and Sean McCANN are represented in the combined profiles of Kate
HEALY and Gerald McCANN. This is what I would expect to find if Amelie
McCANN and Sean Michael McCANN were their natural children.

Neither
the DNA profile of Amelie McCANN nor Sean McCANN matches that from the
pillowcase (SJM/1) and therefore in my opinion, neither Amelie McCANN
nor Sean McCANN can be the source of this profile.

This got me to thinking

The FSS tells us that Sean and Amelie are represented in the combined profiiles of kate and gerry therefore they are the bio parents.

What is missing??


We are then told the DNA does not match either Sean or Amelie so they cannot be the donors.
What we are not told is that the DNA matches the combined profiles of kate and gerry indicating the sample could be from a 3rd natural child.
Why do they tell us sean and Amelie are the natural children of the mccanns yet the 3rd sample we are not told the same?

Something to ponder on.

Remember it is not only what is said that can lead to the truth or indicate deception, it is also what is unsaid that can indicate truth or deception.

It is not only what is there that shouldn't be that can indicate the truth or deception, it is also what isn't there that should be that indicates truth or deception.

the apartment was almost forensically clean, anyone with toddlers knows they leak and touch everything.
Finger prints all over the place like windows, tables, tv screens, mirrors, saliva, tears, urine and faeces will be all over the place form upset, teething, chewing, diapered children.
There would also be a few hairs as well as skin cells.

Why did they give the dogs a towel to get the scent from which could have the scent of all 3 children on when Maddies clothes would provide a stronger, purer scent?

Why the need to go back to Rothley to get a pillow when a pillow from her bed, sheets even or even clothing again would provide samples.

Why the need to travel back to the UK to get a DNA sample when the apartment should have been rife with it?

Anyone would think Maddie had never been there or the mccanns couldn't find anything of hers with DNA on not contaminated by anything else possibly incriminating.



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Re: 5A Forensics taken 04/05/07

Post by Guest on 08.06.13 12:27

@Hobs wrote: Why the need to travel back to the UK to get a DNA sample when the apartment should have been rife with it?

Anyone would think Maddie had never been there or the mccanns couldn't find anything of hers with DNA on not contaminated by anything else possibly incriminating.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

When asked, she replied that on 3rd May she did not hear any noise from the McCann apartment, not even the opening of doors.

When questioned, she said that she never heard any arguments between the couple or with their children. She said that the family would spend much time outside of the apartment and therefore she did not notice their presence.
She said that until that night she had never spoken to the McCann's, because up until the 3rd May, she only sometimes saw them walking in the street.
She never saw them with any vehicle.

Not even the opening of doors all day on 3rd May? I know it's probably been referred to many times but Mrs. Fenn's statement doesn't make any sense to me. 3 tired children supposed to be there for breakfast and lunch every day for a week yet didn't make a sound in the apartment? She heard a child cry over the noise of her TV yet nothing at all during breakfast and lunch all week long?

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Re: 5A Forensics taken 04/05/07

Post by tigger on 08.06.13 12:44

- and on the Saturday, the children's clothes were all washed, courtesy of MW laundry who only did this once.
It is very likely that all Maddy's clothes were included. The laundry was done by a Mrs. Da Silva who gave a statement to the PJ.

I believe that was the day the PJ wanted to examine the clothing.

Considering that Kate also remembered on the morning of the 4th to ask Aunt Kennedy to cancel the grocery order, no flies on her as far as housewifely duties go.



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Re: 5A Forensics taken 04/05/07

Post by aquila on 08.06.13 12:56

@tigger wrote:- and on the Saturday, the children's clothes were all washed, courtesy of MW laundry who only did this once.
It is very likely that all Maddy's clothes were included. The laundry was done by a Mrs. Da Silva who gave a statement to the PJ.

I believe that was the day the PJ wanted to examine the clothing.

Considering that Kate also remembered on the morning of the 4th to ask Aunt Kennedy to cancel the grocery order, no flies on her as far as housewifely duties go.



yep, your child goes missing, the UK media have descended, it's plastered all over SkyNews and you remember to cancel the Tesco grocery order.

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Re: 5A Forensics taken 04/05/07

Post by Guest on 08.06.13 14:49

I always do that when someone goes missing. It kicks in kind of natural: first things first ...

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Re: 5A Forensics taken 04/05/07

Post by Ayniia on 08.06.13 19:49

@saltnpepper wrote:From thinking on the pre empt thread was the story of Kate McCann carefully taking out Madeleines bead,My wife has taken these out of the daughters hair after holidays & she told me that hairs come out with them
5A was pristine,the McCanns were very conscience of clenliness & hygiene but alas one toothbrush for the three children

I never understood the "bead" thing. Females please help me because I'M SURE that's an "hair elastic"(I'm happy to be called wrong on this). How could Kate mistake that for a bead,baffles me.


@aquila wrote:
@tigger wrote:- and on the Saturday, the children's
clothes were all washed, courtesy of MW laundry who only did this once.
It
is very likely that all Maddy's clothes were included. The laundry was
done by a Mrs. Da Silva who gave a statement to the PJ.
I believe that was the day the PJ wanted to examine the clothing.
Considering
that Kate also remembered on the morning of the 4th to ask Aunt Kennedy
to cancel the grocery order, no flies on her as far as housewifely
duties go.

yep, your child goes missing, the
UK media have descended, it's plastered all over SkyNews and you
remember to cancel the Tesco grocery order.

Remember in her own words,in the first 48h they were almost non functioning... But Gerry slept and Kate remembered the supermarket order...

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Re: 5A Forensics taken 04/05/07

Post by tigger on 08.06.13 20:26

@ Ayiina
Re the bead. I think you're right, it's not a bead. It's also an addition to the 'story'. The bead didn't make an appearance before the photograph did. Considering how important the pool photo was to them, Kate calls the dress 'apricot' in the book, not pink and the careful removal of the bead is imo added to show the attention given to Maddie.
It's not a bead, just some hair elastic, which as Salt'nPepper says, will take plenty of hairs with it.


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Re: 5A Forensics taken 04/05/07

Post by Guest on 08.06.13 20:26

Quite.
Right.
Both of you.

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Re: 5A Forensics taken 04/05/07

Post by Ayniia on 08.06.13 20:30

Thank you both

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