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Pope Benedict XVI in shock resignation

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Re: Pope Benedict XVI in shock resignation

Post by Tony Bennett on 03.03.13 10:50

The 16th century reformers like Luther - and those who came before him like Wycliffe and Hus - had it right. The Roman Catholic Church was irremediably corrupt.

And still is.

The translators of the Authorised King James Bible, when they finished their translations in 1611, presented their new Bible to James I with a Foreword in which they trusted that "by writing in defence of the Truth, [your Majesty] hath given such a blow unto that man of sin as will not be healed..."

The 'man of sin' is a reference in the Book of Revelation to a figurehead that would emerge that would be 'anti-Christian', in the sense of pretending to be Christian, but in fact was the very antithesis of true Christianity. The Catholic Inquisition probably represented the zenith of persecution of true Christians (and others). The St. Bartholomew's Day massacre of Protestants in Paris [1572 if memory serves] was celebrated by the Pope of the Day (probably one of the Borgias] by his striking a special coin to celebrate the killers' 'achievements'.

The industrial scale of Roman Catholic child abuse spanning many countries and several decades, if not centuries, confirms that this is still an utterly corrupt institution.

I see that the article cited above refers by PeterMac refers to the central civil service core of the Vatican as 'The Flith'.

How apt

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Re: Pope Benedict XVI in shock resignation

Post by PeterMac on 03.03.13 11:29

Just looked it up. It was 1572, and Gregory XIII, he of the calendar reform.

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Re: Pope Benedict XVI in shock resignation

Post by Shibboleth on 03.03.13 11:56

I have come in late to this discussion. I had many Protestant Catholic friends in Manchester, they had photographs of the Pope even in their home, like family photos. When this Pope was elected, my first question to them was about his actions in 1939. Where was he, what was he doing, was he active with the Nazi party. Actually he was in the Hitler Youth. My friends said that it did not matter as *everyone* was in the Hitler Youth, they did not see this as incompatible with his new job as the representative of G-d on earth. I was friends with these people for many years, this attitude came as a shock for me. What other facts about this Pope have been hidden, or suppressed, from the world. There is much more, I think, than * he is too old and frail*.

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Re: Pope Benedict XVI in shock resignation

Post by tigger on 03.03.13 12:46

@Shibboleth wrote:I have come in late to this discussion. I had many Protestant Catholic friends in Manchester, they had photographs of the Pope even in their home, like family photos. When this Pope was elected, my first question to them was about his actions in 1939. Where was he, what was he doing, was he active with the Nazi party. Actually he was in the Hitler Youth. My friends said that it did not matter as *everyone* was in the Hitler Youth, they did not see this as incompatible with his new job as the representative of G-d on earth. I was friends with these people for many years, this attitude came as a shock for me. What other facts about this Pope have been hidden, or suppressed, from the world. There is much more, I think, than * he is too old and frail*.

It may well be that he is making a desperate bid to clean up the corruption at the heart of the RC church. The article makes a lot of sense to me. Does anyone remember the 'suicide' of one of the Vatican bankers under Blackfriars Bridge? This problem must have been simmering a long time.
Being in the Hitler Jugend wasn't a decision the child could make from what I've read. The conditioning (rather like the RC faith) started at a very early age and I expect it would have been the decision of the parents and/or teachers.
He's in my good books for whooshing the McCanns off the Vatican website.
The catholic church isn't the only institution riddled with paedophiles but it's one that has allowed them a lot of protection. But I think this is also about other crimes, corruption and shady deals. The bank of God is in deep trouble I understand and has been for a long time.

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Re: Pope Benedict XVI in shock resignation

Post by Guest on 03.03.13 12:49

I don't think that young people had any say at all in whether or not they joined the Hitler Youth. There was also a branch for girls and the mother of a work colleague of mine was an unwilling member.

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Re: Pope Benedict XVI in shock resignation

Post by Tony Bennett on 03.03.13 13:31

POPE BENEDICT XVI - 1

Extract from an article I wrote 2 years ago about Pope Benedict XVI's visit in 2011 to the grave of Cardinal Aloysius Stepinac - one of the worst war criminals in war-time Croatia who participated actively and willingly in the forced conversion to Roman Catholicism, or torture and murder, of around 1 to 1.5 million Serbs during Word War II. During this period Croatia was a puppet state of Nazi Germany:

+++++++++++++++++


Pope urges Croatians to accept .U. membership and visits the tomb of Roman Catholic war criminal Stepinac

Pope Benedict XVI, on his recent three-day visit to Croatia, has made statements urging its government and people to accept and embrace membership of the European Union. The deeply Roman Catholic country is divided on the question of whether or not to join the E.U., but warmly welcomed the Pope on his visit.

The Pope led a prayer vigil in the Croatian capital, Zagreb, attended by thousands of people. In his speech, the Pope said Croatia’s entry to the E.U. “could help to preserve that priceless common heritage of human and Christian values”. The flag of the European Union, a circle of 12 yellow stars, is widely believed to be based on the Roman Catholic Church’s misunderstanding of the symbolic reference to a crown of twelve stars on Chapter 12 vv 1-2 of the Book of Revelation, and many of the ‘founding fathers’ of the E.U. were staunch Roman Catholics who have been honoured by the Papacy.



EBBED


Croatia appears to be close to the end of negotiations to enter the 27-member E.U., although support has ebbed recently after Croatian commander General Ante Gotovina was sentenced for war crimes by The Hague in April. The Pope, anticipating that Croatia will soon become a full
E.U. member, added: “On the eve of Croatia’s full integration into the European Union, its remote and recent history can stimulate reflection on the part of all the other peoples of the continent…for Croatia, entry to the E.U. is logical, just and necessary”.


The Vatican was one of the first states to recognise Croatia when it declared independence 20 years ago.


ADVERSE


The Pope’s controversial visit to the tomb of convicted World War II criminal, Roman Catholic Cardinal Alojzije (Aloysius) Stepinac, whom he praised, has already caused an adverse reaction in Serbia, where it had been thought that the Pope would attend the celebration of 1,700 years of the Edict of Milan in the Town of Nis in 2013. A spokesman for the Serbian Orthodox Patriarch said that the Pope would have been invited had he, during visit to Croatia last weekend, visited the site of the Jasenovac concentration camp, and paid respect to the victims there, in which around 700,000 Serbs and 100,000 Jews and Roma were killed during the war.


At Stepinac’s tomb in Zagreb Cathedral, the Pope claimed that “Stepinac saved Jews, Serbs and Roma from death...he was a humanist who suffered under two totalitarian regimes - of the Ustashis [in the war] and of the Communists [after the war]”. Federico Lombardi, Director of Vatican’s Office for Media Relations, claimed that there are testimonies that Stepinac was not supporting Ante Pavelic’s Ustashi regime, insisting: “There are data about his saving of Jews”.


FAILED


But Jovan Mirkovic, Director of the Museums of Victims of Genocide, and former Director of Jasenovac Monument Park, contradicted the Pope’s claims, saying: “There are simply no proofs for such claims - but there are proofs about the Cardinal’s responsibility for the Ustashi crimes. Had he saved life of a single Jew, Israel would have acknowledged this…I think there were certain attempts in that direction, but they all failed. His personal responsibility for the enforced conversion of Serbs to Roman Catholicism is proven, and a large number of his priests were Ustashi members, committing crimes together with others. He was also the supreme Military Chaplain and all his priests delegated to Ustashi units were under his authority. Stepinac knew about Jasenovac and all horrible things that were going on there”.

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Re: Pope Benedict XVI in shock resignation

Post by Tony Bennett on 03.03.13 13:38

POPE BENEDICT XVI - 2

This is the bloke who claims a string of absurd titles like 'The Holy Father', 'His Holiness', and 'The Vicar of Christ on Earth'.

As if!!

+++++++++++++++++


Pope’s child porn 'normal' claim sparks outrage among victims


21 December 2010



Victims of clerical sex abuse have reacted furiously to Pope Benedict's claim yesterday that paedophilia wasn't considered an “absolute evil” as recently as the 1970s.

In his traditional Christmas address yesterday to cardinals and officials working in Rome, Pope Benedict XVI also claimed that child pornography was increasingly considered “normal” by society.

“In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorised as something fully in conformity with man and even with children,” the Pope said.

“It was maintained - even within the realm of Catholic theology - that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a ‘better than' and a ‘worse than'. Nothing is good or bad in itself.”

The Pope said abuse revelations in 2010 reached “an unimaginable dimension” which brought “humiliation” on the Church.

Asking how abuse exploded within the Church, the Pontiff called on senior clerics “to repair as much as possible the injustices that occurred” and to help victims heal through a better presentation of the Christian message.

“We cannot remain silent about the context of these times in which these events have come to light,” he said, citing the growth of child pornography “that seems in some way to be considered more and more normal by society” he said.

But outraged Dublin victim Andrew Madden last night insisted that child abuse was not considered normal in the company he kept.

Mr Madden accused the Pope of not knowing that child pornography was the viewing of images of children being sexually abused, and should be named as such.

He said: “That is not normal. I don't know what company the Pope has been keeping for the past 50 years.”

Pope Benedict also said sex tourism in the Third World was “threatening an entire generation”.

Angry abuse victims in America last night said that while some Church officials have blamed the liberalism of the 1960s for the Church's sex abuse scandals and cover-up catastrophes, Pope Benedict had come up with a new theory of blaming the 1970s.

“Catholics should be embarrassed to hear their Pope talk again and again about abuse while doing little or nothing to stop it and to mischaracterise this heinous crisis,” said Barbara Blaine, the head of SNAP, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests.

“It is fundamentally disturbing to watch a brilliant man so conveniently misdiagnose a horrific scandal,” she added.

“The Pope insists on talking about a vague ‘broader context' he can't control, while ignoring the clear ‘broader context' he can influence - the long-standing and unhealthy culture of a rigid, secretive, all-male Church hierarchy fixated on self-preservation at all costs. This is the ‘context’ that matters.”

The latest controversy comes as the German magazine Der Spiegel continues to investigate the Pope's role in allowing a known paedophile priest to work with children in the early 1980s.


Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/popersquos-child-porn-normal-claim-sparks-outrage-among-victims-15035449.html#ixzz2FmKvlHQs

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Re: Pope Benedict XVI in shock resignation

Post by Guest on 03.03.13 19:29

I'll put this here.......



Cardinal Keith O'Brien sorry for sexual misconduct



Analysis


David Willey BBC News, Rome



The public admission of sexual misconduct by Britain's most senior Roman Catholic cleric, Cardinal Keith O'Brien, former head of the Church in Scotland, could not have come at a more embarrassing moment for the Vatican.

In a few hours time, his fellow Cardinals from around the world gather in Rome for preliminary discussions on the choice of a successor to Pope Benedict, who resigned last month.

Cardinal O'Brien had his resignation as Archbishop of Saint Andrews and Edinburgh accepted last week by the former Pope - now known as Pope Emeritus.

He made it clear he would not be attending the conclave although it is normally a duty of all cardinals under the age of 80 to take part in the election process - known as a Conclave.

The Rome gathering is already overshadowed by allegations of scandal, intrigue and betrayal among the Vatican hierarchy.

The credibility of the Roman Catholic Church will be further damaged by Cardinal O'Brien's confession of inappropriate sexual behaviour

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21649475

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Re: Pope Benedict XVI in shock resignation

Post by PeterMac on 03.03.13 22:50

Two days ago he was denying it.
Has he repented of his wickedness, so that he shall live ? (or words to that effect !)
Oh that that some other "Good Catholics" would do the same !

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Re: Pope Benedict XVI in shock resignation

Post by Inspectorfrost on 03.03.13 23:00

The allegations were anonymous and unspecific, thats why apparently they were denied at the time..well he wasnt gonna own up just like that....sad state of affairs, hypocrites and decades of rot, BBC is the same, govt the same, the established fabric of this country is being eroded/hopefully transformed after the venomous bases are outed
gm

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Re: Pope Benedict XVI in shock resignation

Post by Tony Bennett on 03.03.13 23:17

@PeterMac wrote:Two days ago he was denying it.
Has he repented of his wickedness, so that he shall live ? (or words to that effect !)
This is a really tricky one for Cardinal O'Brien. For the hoi polloi are supposed to kneel in a confessional booth and confess all their sins to the priest, who then dispenses forgiveness.

But to whom does a Cardinal confess?

There is a verse in Scripture that might assist him here:

1 Timothy Chap 2 v 5:

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus".

There's just one problem with this verse for the entire Roman Catholic Church, though.

It would mean ripping up and burning all the confessional booths - and admitting they'd got this wrong for the past 1,000 years or so.

Hard to do when the Popes have been infallible.

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Re: Pope Benedict XVI in shock resignation

Post by bobbin on 04.03.13 9:14

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:Two days ago he was denying it.
Has he repented of his wickedness, so that he shall live ? (or words to that effect !)
This is a really tricky one for Cardinal O'Brien. For the hoi polloi are supposed to kneel in a confessional booth and confess all their sins to the priest, who then dispenses forgiveness.

But to whom does a Cardinal confess?

There is a verse in Scripture that might assist him here:

1 Timothy Chap 2 v 5:

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus".

There's just one problem with this verse for the entire Roman Catholic Church, though.

It would mean ripping up and burning all the confessional booths - and admitting they'd got this wrong for the past 1,000 years or so.

Hard to do when the Popes have been infallible.
The catholic church is a long running example of 'political control at its supreme best'. How do you control society.
1. you get everyone to confess their sins, split on their neighbours, tell tales of everything that they hear about, know about, suspect about, their whole village or neighbourhood.
The one person who hears all this, the local priest, gives out a simple dispensation, "OK, you've given me all the information that I can usefully use, now just poddle off, say three 'hail mary's' to cleanse yourself of your sins and be back here next week with any new juicy bits that you can discover".
Sins are absolved for the week, so carry on sinning as before, confess again, 3 more hail mary's, and the priest is kept up to date with all the gossip going.
Good for the priest, now he knows who's going to be easy to put pressure on, who can be obliging, who is most likely to keep a secret better than another.
2. Report this back to a superior (or as much as the individual priest might consider prudent) in return for brownie points gained for collecting the info that will be useful for putting higher ranking officials at one's behest.
The scene is set and maintained on the premise that fear of god is put into the simple people's minds.
They MUST confess, or they will go to hell. Confessing is easy, because they can say their 3 hail mary's whilst pouring olive oil onto their crostini for breakfast.
The mafia works like this. Bleed the lower ranks for what is possible without killing the geese that lay the golden egg, i.e. that pay their dues, gather toxic knowledge on all and sundry, use that to bribe, threaten, or ensure silence, to protect the racketeering that is going on, in full view, but which is so entrenched, so infiltrated into the fabric of the whole of society, with punishments so bloody and crippling, that toe-ing the line is the only way to proceed on a daily basis.
Where is the difference between catholic church, mafia, and politics as we see it today, and has almost certainly been the same for ever.
The victims in all of this are the true souls who actually have a 'belief', whether in gods or in any other form, who do have a good grain in their hearts and who believe that good can and does abound.
These victims need not be victims but they do need to fight the daily force of evil usurpers who dress themselves up in cloaks of honour, to be discovered at a later date to be concealing unbelievably unpleasant things beneath their cloaks.
Democracy, freedom of speech, freedom to have and preserve basic human rights is all at risk if society drops its guard.
Those most claiming godliness, sanctimoniously parading their benefices are to be viewed with suspicion for the more they trumpet, the more probable it is that they have something to be kept concealed.

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Re: Pope Benedict XVI in shock resignation

Post by Shibboleth on 04.03.13 9:24

@PeterMac wrote:Two days ago he was denying it.
Has he repented of his wickedness, so that he shall live ? (or words to that effect !)
Oh that that some other "Good Catholics" would do the same !
there is a post, I think from two, three days ago - how can a person keep a terrible secret for five or six years? Clearly this Cardinal was able to do it.

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Re: Pope Benedict XVI in shock resignation

Post by tigger on 04.03.13 9:32

It was the indulgences that got me. Buy an indulgence before you commit the sin. Marvellous, it does follow that those with more money can afford to commit more or greater sins. pray2

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Re: Pope Benedict XVI in shock resignation

Post by PeterMac on 04.03.13 12:15

@Shibboleth wrote: how can a person keep a terrible secret for five or six years? Clearly this Cardinal was able to do it.
Some people can keep secrets for their entire lives. It may depend on the importance of the secret.
But for me the issue is not his homosexuality, which for most of us these days is unremarkable to the point of being boring, nor even that he tried to tap up a few younger priests of the same persuasion. How else was he going to find a willing partner ?
Nor even that he may have found one of more partners during his life. So long as they don't do it in public and frighten the horses.
The point for me is his rank hypocrisy in excoriating homosexuals through his entire career

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Re: Pope Benedict XVI in shock resignation

Post by PeterMac on 04.03.13 14:16

With acknowledgements to another forum

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