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Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by aiyoyo on 22.01.13 15:11

The British police today arrived to Porto and are currently meeting with
fellow Judiciary Police (PJ). Reopening and review of the investigation
into the case 'Maddie' - missing for nearly six years - was started ten
months ago, having the direction of the National Judicial tasked a
special team led by Helena Monteiro, coordinator of criminal
investigation over PJ. British authorities expect any new data to be
collected by the special team of PJ Port allow the process to be
formally reopened by the Ministry Public.



I wish the reporting was more accurate.

If MET and Oporto were working together one imagines that they would have routine meetings from time to time.
What makes this meeting special that justifies a leak to the Press.
Earlier reports state that the Oporto team was set up ahead of Op Grange, yet this article states the opposite - ie the Oporto was set up 10 months ago, but MET had been in operation nearly 2 years.
So who was Op Grange cooperating with prior to that?

It's such an ambiguous reporting I have no clue why MET expect Oporto to come up with new data to justify the reopening - isnt that the purpose of the joint exercise.

Has Hogan had his reply from Cameron and thus given OP Grange the green light to support Oporto in the reopening one wonders.
Reopening could only mean focus is back on Mccanns, can't be anything else.

So is it time for Mccanns to pack their bags?
If the reopening mandates that their arguido status be reinstated, will they be handcuffed back to PDL?

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Bob Southgate on 22.01.13 15:18

I can think of two commissioners in the last 30 years who could be regarded as proper coppers. Sir Peter Imbert and Sir John Stevens. Imbert was a PC for 10 years before he was promoted to sergeant. Sir Kenneth Newman was an academic who didn't really make much of an impression in the Met. Sir Paul Condon was a spineless coward who rolled over at the Mcpherson Inquiry, leaving the Met to pick up the pieces for years afterwards. Condon also made the famous statement about 250 officers being corrupt. This led to the (un)professional standards department to launch a witch hunt to justify this claim with officers hauled up for misconduct for spurious reasons so they could justify the claim. Ian Blair could never describe himself as a copper as long as he has a hole in his derriere and was incredibly liberal. Sir Paul Stephenson was out of his depth and clueless. He introduced the much reviled single patrol policy, not giving any concern for those who have to go out and patrol. He will always be remembered for thinking it was ok to accept £12000 of hospitality at Champneys. What a plonker!!

Hogan Howe is hated within the Met and he has been put in position by Teresa May to follow her and Camorons agenda.

Have I missed anything?

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Guest on 22.01.13 15:20

@ Ayoyo

Pack their bags? Where could they go? They've made sure for the past 5+ years that the world and its dog know who they are. Now if he would finally shave the fur a little below collar level and peroxide his hair and she would turn a brunette ... If you see such a pair in the most northern part of the world, permanently wearing sunglasses, you might guess that ...

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Nina on 22.01.13 15:20

@aiyoyo wrote:
The British police today arrived to Porto and are currently meeting with
fellow Judiciary Police (PJ). Reopening and review of the investigation
into the case 'Maddie' - missing for nearly six years - was started ten
months ago, having the direction of the National Judicial tasked a
special team led by Helena Monteiro, coordinator of criminal
investigation over PJ. British authorities expect any new data to be
collected by the special team of PJ Port allow the process to be
formally reopened by the Ministry Public.



I wish the reporting was more accurate.

If MET and Oporto were working together one imagines that they would have routine meetings from time to time.
What makes this meeting special that justifies a leak to the Press.
Earlier reports state that the Oporto team was set up ahead of Op Grange, yet this article states the opposite - ie the Oporto was set up 10 months ago, but MET had been in operation nearly 2 years.
So who was Op Grange cooperating with prior to that?

It's such an ambiguous reporting I have no clue why MET expect Oporto to come up with new data to justify the reopening - isnt that the purpose of the joint exercise.

Has Hogan had his reply from Cameron and thus given OP Grange the green light to support Oporto in the reopening one wonders.
Reopening could only mean focus is back on Mccanns, can't be anything else.

So is it time for Mccanns to pack their bags?
If the reopening mandates that their arguido status be reinstated, will they be handcuffed back to PDL?

Well so far it has been a matter of kid gloves, so maybe they will be flown over by private jet and put up in a high class hotel with expenses for drinks and food and hairdresser visits. The children will be ok back at home as they must be more than able to look after themselves by now. But remember Amelia doesn't like cauliflower so just get tins of beans, they keep well in the fridge if any left in the tin.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by aiyoyo on 22.01.13 15:25

@Bob Southgate wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:I am aware who he is.

But one would imagine even Commissioner works his way up the corporate ladder through promotions (or am I wrong).

At some point in his career he must have been rank and file doing investigation work. Just a copper on the beat.

An awfully long time ago

, so now he just licks the politicians' boots, and exercises his mouth muscles to serve the public!

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Woofer on 22.01.13 15:27

It would be interesting to hear what John Stalker`s present opinion is. He was Deputy Chief Constable in Manchester and had been in the CID and a beat bobby before that. At one time he did comment that he thought the McCanns were hiding something.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by aiyoyo on 22.01.13 15:32

@Nina wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
The British police today arrived to Porto and are currently meeting with
fellow Judiciary Police (PJ). Reopening and review of the investigation
into the case 'Maddie' - missing for nearly six years - was started ten
months ago, having the direction of the National Judicial tasked a
special team led by Helena Monteiro, coordinator of criminal
investigation over PJ. British authorities expect any new data to be
collected by the special team of PJ Port allow the process to be
formally reopened by the Ministry Public.



I wish the reporting was more accurate.

If MET and Oporto were working together one imagines that they would have routine meetings from time to time.
What makes this meeting special that justifies a leak to the Press.
Earlier reports state that the Oporto team was set up ahead of Op Grange, yet this article states the opposite - ie the Oporto was set up 10 months ago, but MET had been in operation nearly 2 years.
So who was Op Grange cooperating with prior to that?

It's such an ambiguous reporting I have no clue why MET expect Oporto to come up with new data to justify the reopening - isnt that the purpose of the joint exercise.

Has Hogan had his reply from Cameron and thus given OP Grange the green light to support Oporto in the reopening one wonders.
Reopening could only mean focus is back on Mccanns, can't be anything else.

So is it time for Mccanns to pack their bags?
If the reopening mandates that their arguido status be reinstated, will they be handcuffed back to PDL?

Well so far it has been a matter of kid gloves, so maybe they will be flown over by private jet and put up in a high class hotel with expenses for drinks and food and hairdresser visits. The children will be ok back at home as they must be more than able to look after themselves by now. But remember Amelia doesn't like cauliflower so just get tins of beans, they keep well in the fridge if any left in the tin.

Likely the Police Helicopter will transport them. Since they impressed upon us that they are so looking forward to the reopening, let's see how happy they be when they board the plane.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Ribisl on 22.01.13 15:46

@sharonl wrote:Aren't the team at Porto, Portugals' answer to the McCann cops at Scotland yard? The official investigation was in Portimao, not Porto. I read somewhere on Joana's site that the Porto investigation was not an official investigation and was frowned upon by the Judiciary, so what exactly is being re-opened here? The official investigation in Portimao which means that all suspect status may be re-instated, (if that is what happens) or the McCann controlled investigation in Porto?
I understand they have been conducting a cold case review in Porto, pretty much the same as SY, only with less publicity and much less resources. I assume if neither comes up with any significant new evidence, then the case will not be reopened.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by aiyoyo on 22.01.13 16:03

@Ribisl wrote:
@sharonl wrote:Aren't the team at Porto, Portugals' answer to the McCann cops at Scotland yard? The official investigation was in Portimao, not Porto. I read somewhere on Joana's site that the Porto investigation was not an official investigation and was frowned upon by the Judiciary, so what exactly is being re-opened here? The official investigation in Portimao which means that all suspect status may be re-instated, (if that is what happens) or the McCann controlled investigation in Porto?
I understand they have been conducting a cold case review in Porto, pretty much the same as SY, only with less publicity and much less resources. I assume if neither comes up with any significant new evidence, then the case will not be reopened.

Maybe they want an independent team to do the review, hence Oporto!

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by PeterMac on 22.01.13 16:14

That was certainly my first thought.
It is normal to review a long enquiry which doesn't seem to be getting anywhere, and the Review officer should, ideally, have nothing to do with the investigation or with the people involved.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by monkey mind on 22.01.13 16:22

@PeterMac wrote:See above.
Community Affairs = meetings with politicians
Personnel = Meetings with other senior officers, and with community leaders.

All meetings at that level involve biscuits. That is how you judge how important a meeting actually is.
big grin big grin

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Bob Southgate on 22.01.13 17:39

@aiyoyo wrote:
, so now he just licks the politicians' boots, and exercises his mouth muscles to serve the public!



I couldn't have put it better myself!!! Priceless!!!

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Hobs on 22.01.13 18:03

As we know witnesses to a crime are compelled to tell the truth and answer all questions, if they don't they can be charged and face jail time.

Arguido status allows the sbject to have certain legal protection including being able to lie and to refuse to answer any questions without risk of penalty.

The gruesomes were made arguios to anable to do what they didwhich is lie and refuse to answer questions.

The subject can either request arguidoship or can have it placed upon them by the authorities.

My guess is, should they be hauled kicking and screaming back to Portugal to answer any questions and/or do reconstructions, the moment they say no comment or refuse to co-operate then they get landed with arguido status again and more than likely their chums as well.

Their lawyer will either demand the status to cover their clients butt and to prevent them ending up in jail for being fibbers or the PJ will slap it on themfor the same thing.

This will not help their image of caring parents desperate to have the case reopened as they have been bleating to the sheeples.

Even the terminally dim will have to stop and think why are the parents who claimed to be desperate for the case to be reopened refusing to answer quesions and help the police?

Innocent parents as we have seen from decades of experience act a certain way, guilty parents will always act a certain way and the two are radically different.

Innocent parents physically search, fully co-operate, answer all questions, do reconstructions, take polygraphs and practically camp outside the station demanding news and thinking if they have missed some tiny bit of info which could help find their child.

They do not immediately hire defence layers and pr spokesmen, they do not refuse to co-operate, they do not sit at home hiding, they do not look happy now they are less one child, travel the world at others expense in order to get funds. They give strong reliable statements even if it means revealing family issues such as messy divorce, debt or criminal history, ther priority is finding their missing family member

Guilty parents lawyer up immediately, never search, hire spin doctors, hide away, give scripted answers and refuse to answer anything off script, refuse to co-operate with police, refuse polys or polygraph shop, pick and choose appeals and apperances and charge for photos etc, usually create some kind of fund to get income. No strong reliable denials, concealing unfavorable family history and minimising any crimes/drug use. blames everyone and their goldfish for their own failings. Will threaten to sue or sue anyone who doesn't buy their story.

All so predictable and tiresome and very familiar.

There are a lot of similarities between the ramseys and the gruesomes in their behavior regarding their dead childrither being found or reported as missing

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by monkey mind on 22.01.13 20:44

Anyone in contact with Joana Morais?

Do we know who let the cat out of the bag tipped off SOL re the article? There’s nothing in the translation on her site to indicate but the following puzzles me....

“The British authorities expect that eventual new data to be collected by the special PJ team, allow for the process to be formally reopened by the Attorney General's Office.”

Unless that is a translation error how can the newspaper know what the British authorities expect – in other words what they are thinking - unless they had spoken to them, and if they had, why not quote them directly – unless of course they were trying to avoid revealing that their informant was not the Portuguese but the British authorities themselves? If that’s true I find myself thinking ....here we go again..

And does that sentence not also imply their expectations are based on info they themselves are to deliver to the PJ? Again it’s difficult to read it otherwise. Would be nice to have that translation of that one sentence double checked.

If it's correct it doesn’t fill me with the greatest of optimism in relation to the reasoning behind a reopening if it happens. I’d like to have deep faith in the Met but I’m afraid all this indisputable political interference through three PMs doesn’t allow me to.

And Carlos Anjos has already told us earlier this month what he believes the reason is behind the drive to reopen the investigation.
“and there's another situation, too; the fact that they are in a certain way suspects of something that might have happened, so they want forcefully to open or reopen the process in order to demonstrate that the child is alive, that Maddie is alive. I'm convinced that if the process will ever be reopened we'll never hear of the McCanns again, but this is just my opinion...”

So should it transpire that SY state they have evidence to indicate she is alive then I call B/S, quite simply because if Eddie and Keela are to be believed......there can’t be any. Simple.

And as one of the comments on Joanas blog said “No cop worth his salt would ever ignore the work of those dogs in this case.”

No, free from interference, they would not.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by aiyoyo on 23.01.13 4:54

@monkey mind wrote:
“The British authorities expect that eventual new data to be collected by the special PJ team, allow for the process to be formally reopened by the Attorney General's Office.”
Maybe the MET are hoping the PJ will use their data for the re-opening. God only knows what that could be!

An educated deduction says it cant have been data relating to abduction.
No authority, British or Portuguese, would be stupid to re-open a process to chase the unknown. It has to be something narrowed down with a possibility of prosecution to justify it. And it can mean only one thing.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by tigger on 23.01.13 9:48

@aiyoyo wrote:
@monkey mind wrote:
“The British authorities expect that eventual new data to be collected by the special PJ team, allow for the process to be formally reopened by the Attorney General's Office.”
Maybe the MET are hoping the PJ will use their data for the re-opening. God only knows what that could be!

An educated deduction says it cant have been data relating to abduction.
No authority, British or Portuguese, would be stupid to re-open a process to chase the unknown. It has to be something narrowed down with a possibility of prosecution to justify it. And it can mean only one thing.



I think you're right. The only other explanation is that the McCanns finally got enough money together for that stamp.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Woofer on 23.01.13 10:47

A possible re-opening seems to hinge on the "eventual new data to be collected by the special PJ team"

Have they applied for data that was refused before?

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by david_uk on 23.01.13 10:56

@Woofer wrote:A possible re-opening seems to hinge on the "eventual new data to be collected by the special PJ team"

Have they applied for data that was refused before?

Tapas Credit card statements? Mccanns and family medical records?.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by david_uk on 23.01.13 11:09


It would appear that the comments section has been removed along with the few comments that had already been published?

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by monkey mind on 23.01.13 11:51

@aiyoyo wrote:
@monkey mind wrote:
“The British authorities expect that eventual new data to be collected by the special PJ team, allow for the process to be formally reopened by the Attorney General's Office.”
Maybe the MET are hoping the PJ will use their data for the re-opening. God only knows what that could be!

An educated deduction says it cant have been data relating to abduction.

Eddie and Keela make that quite clear. It cant be, it shouldn't be, but that doesn't mean to say it isn't.

No authority, British or Portuguese, would be stupid to re-open a process to chase the unknown.

Agreed, no authority free to exercise logic and free from political interference. There has been evidence of political interference, plenty of it and plenty of reason for it to continue. Gordon Brown has serious questions to anser about his visits to Leics Police and more importantly the FSS who it seems subsequently destroyed evidence despite forensic techniques being developed in leaps and bounds. I doubt he would want to do that in court or others of his ilk would want him to. One reason among many.

It has to be something narrowed down with a possibility of prosecution to justify it. And it can mean only one thing.

It seems to me from the above sentence in the press SY are to deliver something which they consider to be evidence which will be collected by th PJ. It further seems that British authorities have spoken to the press about this, leaked it in effect, the above sentence indicates that. That could be construed as an attemt to once again exert pressure.

I want to have faith in the Met I really do but history in this case yells through a megaphone to exercise caution. I hope I am wrong I genuinely do. To date I have seen no evidence the enquiry has been reopened only words that intimate the Met are hopeful it will be. I can only pray that the PJ stand firm as they have done and do not cave in to wild goose chases as some in Pt clearly believe that to be the purpose of Grange. At this stage I tend to side with those views in Portugal. HOpe we are all wrong.....

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by ShuBob on 23.01.13 11:55

Well, if the case is re-opened to pursue the abduction theory, they'll have to explain why Eddie and/or Keela were wrong in this case but right in every other case including the very recent Prout, Pilley and Lane cases.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Cristobell on 23.01.13 12:07

I cannot see the PJ re-opening the case unless there is a good chance of a conviction. They are not likely to waste anymore time, money and resources on chasing hoax sightings around the globe. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of girls who look like the age enhanced photo, the words needle and haystack come to mind.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by monkey mind on 23.01.13 12:21

@ShuBob wrote:Well, if the case is re-opened to pursue the abduction theory, they'll have to explain why Eddie and/or Keela were wrong in this case but right in every other case including the very recent Prout, Pilley and Lane cases.
Yes, in an ideal world you’d think. The PJ have already made their stance clear in that regard so if it does happen abduction wise, the decision was made by a higher authority, and that isn’t good at all and Eddie and Keela will simply be skimmed over.

We are likely to get some sort of official indication soon which can only go one of three ways:-

1. Reopened and PJ pursuing new leads in Spain, Holland, Germany, North Africa or Nashville bloody Tennessee. This can only mean one thing and imho from a justice standpoint would be a travesty. Remember, quite simply, if you work on the basis she is alive then categorically you cannot suspect the McCanns.

2. Reopened as a result of new leads no further info provided. Much more encouraging though doesn’t exclude 1 above. The key here will be the CM spin machine, doubt they will be able to contain themselves for long if that info has come from the Met and indicates she may be alive and well with a loving family. Equally their lack of spin will reveal much.

3. PJ see no new evidence and refuse to reopen the case. I think if this happens it really does tell us without question the slippery path the Met would be going down and the purpose of Grange. But it does still leave the door open for true justice on the Portuguese end which is the only one that matters.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by monkey mind on 23.01.13 12:27

@Cristobell wrote:I cannot see the PJ re-opening the case unless there is a good chance of a conviction. They are not likely to waste anymore time, money and resources on chasing hoax sightings around the globe. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of girls who look like the age enhanced photo, the words needle and haystack come to mind.
Agree 100%. So if it is reopened on the basis she may still be alive thenlogically the decision would not have been taken by the PJ but driven by a higher authority and imho the purpose of the exercise wouldn’t be to find her would it? Again I refer to the comment on JM’s blog “no policeman worth his salt would ignore Eddie and Keelas evidence. They would not.

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