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Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Bob Southgate on 22.01.13 1:01

@Inspectorfrost wrote:I have no idea what is going on, but I have read in the past that B Hogan Howe, the chief of the Met Police is a very no nonsense kind of person. He is also the one who was reported last year to be asking the govt about wrapping the review up or not.

I seriously hope this case will not end up like the Jon Benet Ramsey case in the USA.

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/9497581/Yard-chief-suggests-Madeleine-probe-may-be-wound-down.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/9497581/Yard-chief-suggests-Madeleine-probe-may-be-wound-down.html[/quote[/url]]

Hogan Howe is a political puppet who was put in place to do the Governments bidding, especially in relation to police "reforms" (aka pay cuts). He is utterly despised within the Met.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Inspectorfrost on 22.01.13 1:05

@Bob Southgate wrote:
@Inspectorfrost wrote:I have no idea what is going on, but I have read in the past that B Hogan Howe, the chief of the Met Police is a very no nonsense kind of person. He is also the one who was reported last year to be asking the govt about wrapping the review up or not.

I seriously hope this case will not end up like the Jon Benet Ramsey case in the USA.

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/9497581/Yard-chief-suggests-Madeleine-probe-may-be-wound-down.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/9497581/Yard-chief-suggests-Madeleine-probe-may-be-wound-down.html[/quote[/url]]

Hogan Howe is a political puppet who was put in place to do the Governments bidding, especially in relation to police "reforms" (aka pay cuts). He is utterly despised within the Met.

Oh right, thanks, thats a lesson for me then to not post on what I dont know about I guess, sorry, who is the one will balls then? Just asking

Are there ANY? if so best leve their names out, we dont want the scum around this case to know

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by aiyoyo on 22.01.13 1:08

@ShuBob wrote:If the case is reopened, the McCanns will have no choice but to cooperate fully. With SY involved, they won't be able to pick and choose what aspects to cooperate with like they did with the PJ. Even if SY conclude it was an abduction and the PJ should reopen the case to investigate that theory, I would imagine the PJ can still decide to call for the reconstruction if only to rule out parental involvement.

Unless the joint exercise is true in the sense it is meant, SY conclusion not taken with PJ, if contrary to the PJ will not result in a reopening. Jmo, it would have to be a joint conclusion before the PM will reopen. The Portuguese retains supremacy over the case with their own cold case review going on headed by Helen ? so will not be led or influenced by SY's conclusion.

If a reopening is ordered it can be safely assumed SY's conclusion is in accord with the PJ. I agree when it comes to that the Mccanns & friends will have no choice but to cooperate, no excuse and no reason for them to try and wiggle out of it, or select the aspects they will cooperate.

Kate and Gerry had often expressed they wanted the reopening, giving public the impression they have been begging for it, so they can't complain now. Their wish has come true.


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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Bob Southgate on 22.01.13 1:11

@Inspectorfrost wrote:Oh right, thanks, thats a lesson for me then to not post on what I dont know about I guess, sorry, who is the one will balls then? Just asking

Ate there ANY? if so best leve their names out, we dont want the scum around this case to know

I'm not long retired from the Met so I am getting plenty of reports of how is hated by the rank and file. He failed to stand up against the Winsor recommendations and is happy to see officers work for longer to get their pensions than when they originally signed up, pay higher contributions and get a lower pension when they retire thanks to a move to career average instead of final salary.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by aiyoyo on 22.01.13 1:16

@Inspectorfrost wrote:
@Bob Southgate wrote:
@Inspectorfrost wrote:I have no idea what is going on, but I have read in the past that B Hogan Howe, the chief of the Met Police is a very no nonsense kind of person. He is also the one who was reported last year to be asking the govt about wrapping the review up or not.

I seriously hope this case will not end up like the Jon Benet Ramsey case in the USA.

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/9497581/Yard-chief-suggests-Madeleine-probe-may-be-wound-down.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/9497581/Yard-chief-suggests-Madeleine-probe-may-be-wound-down.html[/quote[/url]]

Hogan Howe is a political puppet who was put in place to do the Governments bidding, especially in relation to police "reforms" (aka pay cuts). He is utterly despised within the Met.

Oh right, thanks, thats a lesson for me then to not post on what I dont know about I guess, sorry, who is the one will balls then? Just asking

Are there ANY? if so best leve their names out, we dont want the scum around this case to know

If he's a bad executive who does not protect staff welfare, that's internal politics. If he's good policeman there is still hope yet.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Bob Southgate on 22.01.13 1:19

@aiyoyo wrote:If he's a bad executive who does not protect staff welfare, that's internal politics. If he's good policeman there is still hope yet.

When they get to that level they ceased to be a good police officer years before. The vast majority who get that high are far more political than they are good working coppers.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Inspectorfrost on 22.01.13 1:26

@Bob Southgate wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:If he's a bad executive who does not protect staff welfare, that's internal politics. If he's good policeman there is still hope yet.

When they get to that level they ceased to be a good police officer years before. The vast majority who get that high are far more political than they are good working coppers.

I hope the good working coppers hit gold here

BHH may have been lent on politically doesnt make him a bad man or a bad copper per se, might have his own vengence in tow

Wonder what T may and Cameron will sayabout this operation,they better have somethinghalf intelligent to say at the very least or else get an iq test

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by tiny on 22.01.13 7:19

would the mccanns have been in portugal the same time as the sy team,is that why the mccanns caved in.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by tiny on 22.01.13 8:48

@tiny wrote:would the mccanns have been in portugal the same time as the sy team,is that why the mccanns caved in.

also do you think that sy would have told them they were going there

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Guest on 22.01.13 9:54

@ShuBob wrote:Ahem, what's this then? First, Blacksmith blogs about the settlement and then confirmation from the Portuguese press that the case has been suspended. This was followed swiftly by the Mirror and the Mail stories on Kate the Ploughwoman and then came the Express Brazil story. Not long after, we hear from the Irish press that Kate sent her thanks to students who created a website for missing people. Now, this- all in the last 72 or so hours!


I can't find a link to the silly Irish story about a possibly non-existant website on this forum so here's one with acknowledgement to the Missing Madeleine forum.

http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t22585-kate-mccann-thanks-students

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by aiyoyo on 22.01.13 10:45

@tiny wrote:
@tiny wrote:would the mccanns have been in portugal the same time as the sy team,is that why the mccanns caved in.

also do you think that sy would have told them they were going there

No reason for MET to tell them their operational move.

Just wondering does it mean MET has finished review.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by tiny on 22.01.13 10:47

@aiyoyo wrote:
@tiny wrote:
@tiny wrote:would the mccanns have been in portugal the same time as the sy team,is that why the mccanns caved in.

also do you think that sy would have told them they were going there

No reason for MET to tell them their operational move.

Just wondering does it mean MET has finished review.

well i hope your right,just seemed funny that the trial was called off the very week the sy team arrived there.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by monkey mind on 22.01.13 10:49

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Inspectorfrost wrote:
@Bob Southgate wrote:
@Inspectorfrost wrote:I have no idea what is going on, but I have read in the past that B Hogan Howe, the chief of the Met Police is a very no nonsense kind of person. He is also the one who was reported last year to be asking the govt about wrapping the review up or not.

I seriously hope this case will not end up like the Jon Benet Ramsey case in the USA.

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/9497581/Yard-chief-suggests-Madeleine-probe-may-be-wound-down.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/9497581/Yard-chief-suggests-Madeleine-probe-may-be-wound-down.html[/quote[/url]]

Hogan Howe is a political puppet who was put in place to do the Governments bidding, especially in relation to police "reforms" (aka pay cuts). He is utterly despised within the Met.

Oh right, thanks, thats a lesson for me then to not post on what I dont know about I guess, sorry, who is the one will balls then? Just asking

Are there ANY? if so best leve their names out, we dont want the scum around this case to know

If he's a bad executive who does not protect staff welfare, that's internal politics. If he's good policeman there is still hope yet.
Aiyoyo, he's the Commissioner of Police.

He hasnt got the first clue as to investigative police work. Not a clue.

He's an administrator and a politician and though I don't know detaisl of his history it is a fair assumption that his last investigative duties were basic and likely carried out when he was a probationater or shortly after, half a life ago.

As has been pointed out, he's there to do the government bidding, he wouldn't have been appointed otherwise.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by monkey mind on 22.01.13 11:15

Firstly let me say the men and women of the Portuguese police service have to date conducted themselves with dignity and honour and done the best they could for a child they and many others believe is dead. They and their people can feel proud in that.

If the enquiry is reopened in Portugal the direction it will take depends solely on whether it is free from political interference. Personally speaking, I wouldn’t feel confident to bet against that.

The best indicator as to what direction this enquiry will take, whether it is free to pursue truth will be the McCanns themselves.

They’ve always said they wanted the investigation reopened. In my opinion they want vindication. They want to hold their heads up high and not have people looking upon them with suspicion. The only way this can happen is by the original investigating authority to clear them. They want the investigation reopened but on the basis of new evidence she is still alive which to date they haven’t got and that in my opinion is why they haven’t simply officially asked themselves.

So if they are looking happy I will be concerned and vice versa. As for the reconstruction. They will rehearse and rehearse it before hand if it ever takes place. They will be rehearsed and no doubt coached by lawyers.

They will still cock it up but it won’t be as bad as if it had happened when it should.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by aiyoyo on 22.01.13 11:18

I am aware who he is.

But one would imagine even Commissioner works his way up the corporate ladder through promotions (or am I wrong).

At some point in his career he must have been rank and file doing investigation work. Just a copper on the beat.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Ollie on 22.01.13 11:21

If the case is reopened the McCanns will once again be suspects (not persons of interest as they would like us to believe), this time they will not be able to flee.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Guest on 22.01.13 11:29

@Ollie wrote:If the case is reopened the McCanns will once again be suspects (not persons of interest as they would like us to believe), this time they will not be able to flee.

Not according to Joana Morais, and she being Portuguese would know I think. Possibly, but not automatic.



Joana Morais‏@xklamation

@foxylady93 It's a possibility, not automatically I don't think so. They can also get other legal status, like 'assistants to the process".

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Guest on 22.01.13 11:33

I'm no legal eagle and certainly not on Portuguese law, but common sense would IMO dictate that their status would depend on the reason[s] for re-opening the investigation.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Woofer on 22.01.13 11:36

Yes, but surely they would have to return to Portugal for all this to happen. They could just say, sorry we`re not budging. Or is there an agreement between EU countries that suspects/assistants have to travel to the country that needs to question them?

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by rainbow-fairy on 22.01.13 11:37

[quote="monkey mind"]
@aiyoyo wrote:
@Inspectorfrost wrote:
@Bob Southgate wrote:
@Inspectorfrost wrote:I have no idea what is going on, but I have read in the past that B Hogan Howe, the chief of the Met Police is a very no nonsense kind of person. He is also the one who was reported last year to be asking the govt about wrapping the review up or not.

I seriously hope this case will not end up like the Jon Benet Ramsey case in the USA.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/9497581/Yard-chief-suggests-Madeleine-probe-may-be-wound-down.html[/quote]

Hogan Howe is a political puppet who was put in place to do the Governments bidding, especially in relation to police "reforms" (aka pay cuts). He is utterly despised within the Met.

Oh right, thanks, thats a lesson for me then to not post on what I dont know about I guess, sorry, who is the one will balls then? Just asking

Are there ANY? if so best leve their names out, we dont want the scum around this case to know

If he's a bad executive who does not protect staff welfare, that's internal politics. If he's good policeman there is still hope yet.
Aiyoyo, he's the Commissioner of Police.

He hasnt got the first clue as to investigative police work. Not a clue.

He's an administrator and a politician and though I don't know detaisl of his history it is a fair assumption that his last investigative duties were basic and likely carried out when he was a probationater or shortly after, half a life ago.

As has been pointed out, he's there to do the government bidding, he wouldn't have been appointed otherwise.
What worries me about Hogan-Howe being in charge is what he received in the New Years Honors List - recent examples haven't done much for the reputation of these 'honours'.....

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by PeterMac on 22.01.13 12:17

His wiki potted biography is interesting
1979 joined aged 22
1985- 88 Oxford University (Bramshilll Scholarship - 3 years)
1994 -ish Chief Superintendent
1997 ACC -Community Affairs !
1999 - 2001 ACC Ops
2001 Met - Personnel !

So even if we allow the 2 yrs as ACC Ops, he has 15 years operations experience. MAX
3 Years uniform patrol, 2 as Sgt, 2 as Insp, 2 as Chief Insp, 3 as Superintendent is the absolute maximum for what I, and probably the other two on the forum would call Police work.

In fairness that would not stop him being resolute, forthright, determined, single minded or anything else.
It is just that if he had those characteristics he would not have been put on the Home Office approved short list.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by sharonl on 22.01.13 12:37

Aren't the team at Porto, Portugals' answer to the McCann cops at Scotland yard? The official investigation was in Portimao, not Porto. I read somewhere on Joana's site that the Porto investigation was not an official investigation and was frowned upon by the Judiciary, so what exactly is being re-opened here? The official investigation in Portimao which means that all suspect status may be re-instated, (if that is what happens) or the McCann controlled investigation in Porto?

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by monkey mind on 22.01.13 12:38

@aiyoyo wrote:I am aware who he is.

But one would imagine even Commissioner works his way up the corporate ladder through promotions (or am I wrong).

At some point in his career he must have been rank and file doing investigation work. Just a copper on the beat.
Aiyoyo, yes I know you know who he is I wasn’t implying otherwise. I was implying that being Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police and being a working investigator are NOT synonymous. He joined in 1979 and would spent two years as a probationer constable where he would have learned basic police duties but nothing of any consequence. Without knowing the details of all his postings I can only say that he reached the rank of Assistant Chief Constable in 18 years (including probation) which by any standards is fast I assure you. He also appears to have spent a good amount of those first 18 years at University including Oxford, Cambridge and Sheffield. Those 18 years to ACC would have been a rapid series of education and promotion but the promotion did not come because he was a great investigator it came because he had been identified at the outset as very senior officer material. Those years would not have been spent predominantly learning the art of investigation on his feet on the streets rather learning the arts of administration and man management and at a certain point he would have started incorporating politics into his repertoire. All just my opinion of course but based on experience. I’m sure Bob or Peter will correct me if I’m wrong.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by PeterMac on 22.01.13 14:16

See above.
Community Affairs = meetings with politicians
Personnel = Meetings with other senior officers, and with community leaders.

All meetings at that level involve biscuits. That is how you judge how important a meeting actually is.

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Re: Scotland Yard in Porto because of Maddie

Post by Bob Southgate on 22.01.13 15:04

@aiyoyo wrote:I am aware who he is.

But one would imagine even Commissioner works his way up the corporate ladder through promotions (or am I wrong).

At some point in his career he must have been rank and file doing investigation work. Just a copper on the beat.

An awfully long time ago

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