The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hello!

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

When posting please be mindful that this forum is primarily about the death of a three year old girl.

Regards,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by Tony Bennett on 14.12.12 19:52

(I think this is an American Rugby Football League site):

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/madeleine-mccann.983295/

Here's one observation from the thread...:

Basically, the case has been gone over so much, that the internet is full of rubbish sites analysing 'Body Language' from past interviews and putting interpretations on holiday snapshots (Was It Manipulated?), and making much of apparently random facts (did you know the Dad had his wallet stolen the day he returned to the UK? Hmmmmm.....) that we have to realise it's really a big unknown spawning as many conspiracy theories as something like 9/11 - except there is no film of the actual event.

...and here's one more...

As an aside, my step father is a journalist overseas. Very well established and the like, He does features on science/cultural things with a sort of gonzo perspective. He once interviewed David Icke and found him, which surprised me because he's so skeptical and probing while Icke is a nut bar, 'very convincing and lucid'. Anyways, he was saying to me that the general feel from UK journalists he respects are that the parents weren't involved...

____________________


2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        


Tony Bennett
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 14235
Reputation : 2449
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Harlow, Essex

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by tigger on 14.12.12 20:55

my step father is a journalist overseas. Very well established and the like, He does features on science/cultural things with a sort of gonzo perspective. He once interviewed David Icke and found him, which surprised me because he's so skeptical and probing while Icke is a nut bar, 'very convincing and lucid'. Anyways, he was saying to me that the general feel from UK journalists he respects are that the parents weren't involved...
unquote

spit coffee
So these luminaries of US football with connections such as journalists who are proficient in science as well as culture (albeit 'gonzo' whatever that means apart from the muppet) have worked it out?
David Icke I've no doubt means well, but I wouldn't call him lucid as he has the unfortunate tendency to connect totally unrelated events and people.

On the basis of the above the mcCanns have been declared innocent. Room temperature IQ is all that's needed to get to play American football imo.

____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.

tigger

Posts : 8114
Reputation : 38
Join date : 2011-07-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by MsAnneThrope on 14.12.12 22:32

Anyways, he was saying to me that the general feel from UK journalists he respects are that the parents weren't involved...



It's hardly surprising he wold get that impression.

The British Media is famous for being pro-McCann.




MsAnneThrope

Posts : 1
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-12-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by Guest on 14.12.12 22:46

Sadly true; even journalists who were previously sensible and thought-provoking have had their brains converted to mush by the McCanns.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by grizzlym on 18.12.12 11:51

That post you quoted from Big Footy would be mine. Hi.

Just a word of introduction: we are Australia's largest sporting forum - Aussies Rules predominately - but cover most things. 100,000+ members. We've just started a crime board following a recent murder of an Irish National that captured the public's attention - Jill Meagher. Anyway, the McCann thread was one that just started up.

It's been interesting because the more it's progressed, the more I realise how narrow the reporting has been, particularly in our neck of the woods. There's a dominant narrative if you like. It's also been interesting, from my perspective how apparent cultural stereotypes might have flavoured the investigation too. Anyway, the discussion is certainly expanding - nothing like this library you have here - but it is an eye-opener.

I also wanted to extend an invitation for anyone from here to join us down under for the McCann discussion. Some more educated and informed opinions would be most welcome on this case.

Grizzlym

grizzlym

Posts : 7
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-12-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by tigger on 18.12.12 12:32

@grizzlym wrote:That post you quoted from Big Footy would be mine. Hi.

Just a word of introduction: we are Australia's largest sporting forum - Aussies Rules predominately - but cover most things. 100,000+ members. We've just started a crime board following a recent murder of an Irish National that captured the public's attention - Jill Meagher. Anyway, the McCann thread was one that just started up.

It's been interesting because the more it's progressed, the more I realise how narrow the reporting has been, particularly in our neck of the woods. There's a dominant narrative if you like. It's also been interesting, from my perspective how apparent cultural stereotypes might have flavoured the investigation too. Anyway, the discussion is certainly expanding - nothing like this library you have here - but it is an eye-opener.

I also wanted to extend an invitation for anyone from here to join us down under for the McCann discussion. Some more educated and informed opinions would be most welcome on this case.

Grizzlym

Hello there then. Apologies for saying you're US football. Football is a closed book to me, American football can hardly be called football at all.

Well, you're quite right. Even the Australian TV interview - (have a look at Forensic linguistics) just cow-towed to the pair. Here is Dr. Martin Roberts' commentary on that interview. I'm posting it in full with thanks to McCannfiles - Dr. Roberts' comments are well worth reading, they can all be found on McCannfiles. com.

So now we know


EXCLUSIVE to mccannfiles.com

By Dr Martin Roberts
28 July 2011

SO NOW WE KNOW

They haven't got a clue down under - literally. The reporter fronting the recent Seven on Sunday programme announces an exclusive interview with Kate and Gerry McCann thus:

"Kate and Gerry McCann have lived a never-ending ordeal and they still don't know when, or if, it will ever end. It began on a family holiday in Portugal when Madeleine, their four-year-old daughter, simply vanished. She hasn't been seen since. Tonight the mystery deepens. You are about to see home video never shown before and learn the vital clue Madeleine left behind."

Unfortunately for the expectant viewers, they never get to learn what that vital clue is. Personally, I don't think it's Natasha Kampusch's psychological recovery from trauma. There are however other clues which, thankfully, did not drift onto the cutting room floor.

(Voice over): "On Thursday night, Kate put her daughter to bed for the last time."

KM: "My memory of that evening is really vivid. I mean she was really tired, but she was just cuddled up on my knee. We read a story, mmm...had some treats, some milk and biscuits, errm... and then after they'd done the usual 'toilet-teeth', errm... we went through to the bedroom and read another story 'If You're Happy And You Know It', errm... (long pause)...yep..." (silence).

And there it ends. No description whatsoever of actually putting the children to bed, despite Kate's 'vivid recall' of that evening. The account simply stops dead without a conclusion. This is a classic example of an unbalanced story, and one that's easily viewed with suspicion. Put very simply, if a story does not have a conclusion then there isn't one.

Kate next tells us that when the curtains blew up, they revealed that the shutter was 'all the way up' and the window had been 'pushed right across.' One of several highlights from the Channel 4 documentary (Madeleine Was Here) to be spliced into the proceedings, viewers are treated anew to the episode of the door being 'open much further than we'd left it.' Strange how Matthew Oldfield didn't notice the cold air inside apartment 5A, the various doors and windows having been open for twenty minutes by the time he is said to have peered into the children's bedroom from the lounge. Even stranger that Kate didn't notice the drop in temperature a further half-hour after that. (It was cold enough for Jane Tanner to have borrowed a fleece before setting off up the magic path of invisibility).

But the best is yet to come.

"Did you kill your daughter?" asks the lady journalist. Gerry answers:

"No. That's an emphatic 'no.' I mean the ludicrous thing is. Errm... what... I suppose... what's been purported from Portugal is that Madeleine died in the apartment by an accident and we hid her body. Well, when did she have the accident and died? Cos... the only time she was left unattended was when we were at dinner, so if she died then, how could we have disposed of... hidden her body when there was an immediate search. It's just nonsense. So. An' if she died when we were in the apartment or fell injured, why would we... why would we cover that up?"

KM (interjecting): "And it gets even more ludicrous, that we've obviously hidden her so incredibly well, where nobody's found her and we hid her (interviewer: 'incredibly well') so well that we then decided that we'd move her in the car which we hired weeks later and you know it's just ridiculous."

Let's take this a step at a time.

"Did you kill your daughter?"

"No. That's an emphatic 'no.'"

This is Gerry speaking don't forget. For any other innocent mortal 'Absolutely not' would have been a sufficient response. Not for Gerry though. Despite his subsequent claim, he gives a decidedly unemphatic answer - 'No.' What follows is meta-language, where he is describing his earlier articulation of a word and does not address the underlying semantics in any way. Incoherent and unnecessary expansion then takes us away from the original question, referencing what has been 'purported' in Portugal, namely that 'Madeleine died in the apartment by an accident and we hid her body.'

Next comes a cunning locking of the incident to a specific time frame, with the suggestion that Madeleine could only have had an accident when unattended. But Gerry slips up in questioning how it would have been possible for them to have disposed of Madeleine's body. In immediately substituting the phrase hidden her body he has already told us what in fact happened. Excitedly he goes on to ask why the parents should have covered up an accident. Why indeed.

It hardly comes as a surprise that Kate leaps in at this point, before Gerry's mouth can write any more bad cheques. She loses no time in elaborating upon the 'hide-and-seek' scenario played out that Thursday night, and the 'ludicrous' idea of their hire car being involved afterwards. But the damage has already been done.

The script, charitably outlined by Goncalo Amaral and fleshed out here by the McCanns, so as to exonerate themselves, depends entirely for its effect upon the premise that little Madeleine disappeared inexplicably that Thursday night; a premise that becomes less clear the closer it is examined. And Gerry is right. It wouldn't make sense to conceal an accident. unquote

____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.

tigger

Posts : 8114
Reputation : 38
Join date : 2011-07-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by grizzlym on 18.12.12 12:47

That about sums it up! Wow.

Thanks for that. Apology accepted too. I must admit soccer is like something from a sci-fi movie too.

Mind if I lift this quote?

grizzlym

Posts : 7
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-12-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by Guest on 18.12.12 12:57

to the site, grizzlym.

The mainstream media - in the UK at least - tends to describe the members of sites like these as vile nutters preying on the vulnerable.

That simply is not true - unless that is now the official verdict on people who don't believe the nonsense that the media prints!

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by tigger on 18.12.12 13:17

@grizzlym wrote:That about sums it up! Wow.

Thanks for that. Apology accepted too. I must admit soccer is like something from a sci-fi movie too.

Mind if I lift this quote?

No not at all, as long as you put the source with it, i.e. Dr. Roberts and McCannfiles.

I find the US football a little cowardly with all the gear, looks good, but hey, you play football, you might get a bruise or two?

____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.

tigger

Posts : 8114
Reputation : 38
Join date : 2011-07-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by grizzlym on 18.12.12 13:25

@tigger wrote:
@grizzlym wrote:That about sums it up! Wow.

Thanks for that. Apology accepted too. I must admit soccer is like something from a sci-fi movie too.

Mind if I lift this quote?

No not at all, as long as you put the source with it, i.e. Dr. Roberts and McCannfiles.

I find the US football a little cowardly with all the gear, looks good, but hey, you play football, you might get a bruise or two?

Cheers. Have done.

Bruise or two? Ever seen Australian Rules? It makes soccer look like a game of cards with Stephen Hawkins.

grizzlym

Posts : 7
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-12-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by Guest on 18.12.12 13:29

2 hours about Australian football if anyone feels up to it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bykWXizC1w

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by grizzlym on 18.12.12 13:30

Jean wrote:to the site, grizzlym.

The mainstream media - in the UK at least - tends to describe the members of sites like these as vile nutters preying on the vulnerable.

That simply is not true - unless that is now the official verdict on people who don't believe the nonsense that the media prints!

Hello there. Thanks for the welcome.

Yes, the mainstream media don;t like forums. It's the whole democraticisation of media and shifting of the power balance that gets 'em. They can longer talk through trumpets to a captive audience. We all have voices and the ability to publish. Plural narratives are at odds with the very structure of the powerbase the media has taken 400 years to build.

grizzlym

Posts : 7
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-12-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by grizzlym on 18.12.12 13:36

So, if I can be so bold, and I dare say simplistic, is there one post/narrative/account that people feel sums up what actually might have happened? Or more accurately, possibly, what didn't happen. You guys are obviously immersed in the subject, have studied it, read about it, discussed it, I would love to know the distillation of that. Actually, I just realised, there are probably multiple possibilities, but would love to hear them/be directed to them.

grizzlym

Posts : 7
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-12-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by Guest on 18.12.12 14:26

I know what you mean, it's difficult knowing where to start. I'm sure you'll get more answers later when people return from battling with the Christmas crowds. For me, this topic is a good start.

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4061-what-made-you-doubt-the-mccann-s-abduction-hypothesis?highlight=what+made

There's a link from me there on page 3 to a similar topic.

I wouldn't attempt to state what really happened as I don't know but I can say confidently that it's impossible for it to have happened the way it's claimed.

This link to a report on the limited company set up within days of Madeleine's disappearance is very interesting.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id405.html

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by sallypelt on 18.12.12 15:30

[quote="MsAnneThrope"]Anyways, he was saying to me that the general feel from UK journalists he respects are that the parents weren't involved...


It's so easy to say that "the parents weren't involved". If some people really believe this, I think they should explain to us "sceptics" why the McCann's lied about jemmied windows, the reaction of the dogs, the inconsistencies etc. If I lost a child under such circumstances, and had no part in her/his disappearance, you can be absolutely certain that I would know, down to the finest detail, what was what that night, where I was, and what I did. There would be NO inconsistencies whatsoever!

sallypelt

Posts : 3362
Reputation : 597
Join date : 2012-11-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by Observer on 18.12.12 16:13

[quote="sallypelt"]
@MsAnneThrope wrote:Anyways, he was saying to me that the general feel from UK journalists he respects are that the parents weren't involved...


It's so easy to say that "the parents weren't involved". If some people really believe this, I think they should explain to us "sceptics" why the McCann's lied about jemmied windows, the reaction of the dogs, the inconsistencies etc. If I lost a child under such circumstances, and had no part in her/his disappearance, you can be absolutely certain that I would know, down to the finest detail, what was what that night, where I was, and what I did. There would be NO inconsistencies whatsoever!
Very true sallypelt. For me there would have been NO inconsistencies in my reconstruction.
Nor would I have waited on the police asking me to do one, I would have been strenuously insisting on one ASAP while events were still fresh in memory.

Observer

Posts : 68
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-12-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by tigger on 18.12.12 17:38

@grizzlym wrote:So, if I can be so bold, and I dare say simplistic, is there one post/narrative/account that people feel sums up what actually might have happened? Or more accurately, possibly, what didn't happen. You guys are obviously immersed in the subject, have studied it, read about it, discussed it, I would love to know the distillation of that. Actually, I just realised, there are probably multiple possibilities, but would love to hear them/be directed to them.

It's hard to do that, because we're all so familiar with the case, but here is a ten minute video by Spudgun which is a very good start.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRvgK6M2_7Q

Dr. Martin Roberts is good to read since he refers to interviews and statements from the mcCanns - these can all be found in McCannfiles.com where Dr. Roberts is one of the headings on the left.
Basically, there was a time frame of about 3 minutes in which Maddie (as she was called - Madeleine is another myth) could have been 'taken'.
Here are a few points for starters:
Why did Kate shout 'They've taken her!'
Why did Gerry say on the phone one hour later that she'd been abducted by a paedophile gang?
Why was the police not called until 10.40? When she was found missing at 9.55?
Why did neither parent (and there is a video evidence of this) never physically look for Maddie?
Why was the ambassador aware of the disappearance as early as one hour later?
Why was Gerry's first call to a friend in the UK - who had close connections with the government? (also around 11.00 pm)
Why did they - instead of trying to find their child - sit down and delete all calls from their mobile phones before the PJ(official police) came?
Why, when the CSI dogs found cadaver odour and blood behind the sofa and in their hire car, did the McCanns claim the evidence was planted?

____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.

tigger

Posts : 8114
Reputation : 38
Join date : 2011-07-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by grizzlym on 18.12.12 23:37

Thanks for your posts guys. Also, thanks for those who have made the journey down under. Given the timezone differences, any activity might be quite clustered.

Here's the link to the board if anyone else feels like joining in.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/forums/crime.370/

grizzlym

Posts : 7
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-12-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by AskTheDogsSandra on 19.12.12 21:44

@grizzlym wrote:Thanks for your posts guys. Also, thanks for those who have made the journey down under. Given the timezone differences, any activity might be quite clustered.

Here's the link to the board if anyone else feels like joining in.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/forums/crime.370/

I see Debunker has joined your forum.

AskTheDogsSandra

Posts : 132
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2011-05-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by grizzlym on 20.12.12 0:30

Yes. We have had quite an influx of seasoned posters hit the site.

grizzlym

Posts : 7
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-12-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by Olive_Boyle on 20.12.12 1:10

Grizzlym - why don't you start with reading Goncalo Amarel's book. You are getting it from the horses mouth then. Its free to read in English on the internet, I don't know the link but google it.

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/f4-goncalo-amaral-s-book-maddie-the-truth-about-the-lie

Olive_Boyle

Posts : 122
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2012-05-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by tigger on 20.12.12 7:50

@grizzlym wrote:Yes. We have had quite an influx of seasoned posters hit the site.

debunker seems to have found his mission in life. It's a pity because your site has really good discussions.
For concise information the HideHo McMinute videos might be good.

At a quick glance all the posts are absolutely untrue. E.G. Evidence of CSI dogs has been accepted in courts in the UK and the USA and convictions have resulted.

____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.

tigger

Posts : 8114
Reputation : 38
Join date : 2011-07-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by Guest on 20.12.12 9:11

I feel as if I've missed out in life - I haven't heard of Debunker before! Is this Pam Gurney (again) or perhaps someone on a cesspit site?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by tigger on 20.12.12 10:49

Jean wrote:I feel as if I've missed out in life - I haven't heard of Debunker before! Is this Pam Gurney (again) or perhaps someone on a cesspit site?

Clearly 'Debunker' got the footie address from this topic and decided to go in for carpet bombing that thread.

They're too smart not to notice such tactics down under. I think Debunker has underestimated them but then reasonable argument isn't the strong point of Jatyk members.

____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.

tigger

Posts : 8114
Reputation : 38
Join date : 2011-07-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: A discussion on Madeleine McCann began this week on the 'Big Footy' forum...

Post by Tony Bennett on 20.12.12 13:28

From the archives...another thing that Debunker got wrong...this exchange toook place in 2010:


QUESTION: Could the parents be prosecuted in Leicestershire for chid neglect in Portugal?

TONY'S ANSWER: Yes. McCann-supporter DeBunker on this thread has got this wrong. S/he may, with respect, be unaware of Article 17 of the International Convention at The Hague of 19 October 1996 on Jurisdiction, Applicable Law, Recognition, Enforcement and Co-operation in respect of Parental Responsibility and Measures for the Protection of Children, which came into force on 1 January 2002.

It says:

The exercise of parental responsibility is governed by the law of the State of the child’s habitual residence. If the child’s habitual residence changes, it is governed by the law of the State of the new habitual residence.”



This explains why, back in November 2007, I applied for a summons against the McCanns for child neglect in England, not in Portugal.

____________________


2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        


Tony Bennett
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 14235
Reputation : 2449
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Harlow, Essex

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum