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Big Brother??

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Big Brother??

Post by Guest on 11.12.12 12:45

Draft Communications Data Bill cannot proceed - Nick Clegg



Plans to give police and intelligence services the power to monitor all email and internet use in the UK need a "fundamental rethink", Nick Clegg says.

The deputy prime minister said he would block the draft Communications Data Bill and push for plans ensuring "the balance between security and liberty".

His comments came as a committee of MPs and peers criticised the bill's scope.

The Home Office said the new laws were needed "without delay" to stop serious crimes such as terrorism.



The Home Office said the new laws were needed "without delay" to stop serious crimes such as terrorism.

The Conservative and Liberal Democrat leaderships agree on the need for new measures, but they disagree over their scope.

The plans in the draft bill include:


  • Internet service providers having to store for a year all details of online communication in the UK - such as the time, duration, originator and recipient of a communication and the location of the device from which it was made.


  • They would also be having to store for the first time all Britons' web browsing history and details of messages sent on social media, webmail, voice calls over the internet and gaming, in addition to emails and phone calls
  • Police not having to seek permission to access details of these communications, if investigating a crime
  • Police having to get a warrant from the home secretary to be able to see the actual content of any messages
  • Four bodies having access to data: the police, the Serious and Organised Crime Agency, the intelligence agencies and HM Revenue and Customs

Civil liberties campaigners have described the proposals as a "snoopers' charter", but Home Secretary Theresa May insists they are vital for countering paedophiles, extremists and fraudsters.



More on link..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20668953



Scary

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Re: Big Brother??

Post by Guest on 11.12.12 12:51

708 comments so far, just a couple here...

669.Alex
50 Minutes ago



It staggers me just how popular the 'help the government make us safer' argument is, as if we now have to accept that we are to be forever under the hammer of terrorist thugs.

If we continue to sacrifice our freedom in a sick Orwellian nightmare, the extremists we are trying to protect ourselves from will have won and we will have lost what made our society



95.DisgustedTW
3 Hours ago



I'm no fan of Nick Clegg, but he is right to block this insane plan.

Anyone with anything to hide (criminals, terrorists etc) will just encrypt the data anyway. This will just monitor and police the law-abiding majority.

1984 was meant to be a warning, not an instruction manual





.beanie bingbong
4 Hours ago



If the power is there for the government to use, you bet it will be used. Nick Clegg is right in this case....we must all resist this next step towards more incursion by police and government into our private lives





817.Nemo
3 Minutes ago



The question should be how do we stop this from happening? I was lead to believe that I lived in a democracy. Surely if enough people were to go against the government they would have to reconsider. Oh what a minute, no they won't. Is there a petition against this? Yes. Will anything come of it? No. Why not. Because it not just our government that's pushing for it, is it?

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Re: Big Brother??

Post by Guest on 11.12.12 14:31

The Government have now decided to re-draft the bill.................that was quick, both stories on the same day!



Draft Communications Data Bill to be redrafted - No 10

No 10 says the PM remains committed to giving police and security services new powers to monitor internet activity, despite criticism of current plans.

The prime minister's spokesman said he accepted the criticism from MPs and peers of the draft Communications Data Bill and would re-write it.

Deputy PM Nick Clegg had threatened to block it unless there was a "rethink".

No 10 said bringing in new powers was a "government commitment" and everyone was "committed to fixing this problem".

He said: "We recognise this is a difficult issue. We will take account of what the committee said."



More here......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20676284

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Re: Big Brother??

Post by uppatoffee on 11.12.12 16:16

Good to see Nick Clegg actually putting his foot down and actually opposing a Tory policy rather than just acquiescing as usual. I'm sure that the next draft won't be hugely different, but it was an important stand to make.

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Re: Big Brother??

Post by puzzled on 11.12.12 18:26

There's nothing new about snooping on e-mails, etc. The echelon system has been doing this for years. I first heard about it in 1999. As for Clegg, he's probably talking out of his other end, as usual. The government will probably get what it wants, it will just be dressed up to make it seem something different than it is.


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Re: Big Brother??

Post by tigger on 11.12.12 19:30

@puzzled wrote:There's nothing new about snooping on e-mails, etc. The echelon system has been doing this for years. I first heard about it in 1999. As for Clegg, he's probably talking out of his other end, as usual. The government will probably get what it wants, it will just be dressed up to make it seem something different than it is.


This is from Russia Today: brilliant article I think.

http://on.rt.com/9ycore

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Re: Big Brother??

Post by Guest on 11.12.12 19:45

I am such a simple soul ... I need no more laws than the Ten Commandments ... I'm not a religious person, but all of the basics are there. And I'm wary of the 1,000s+ of new ones, everywhere .

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Re: Big Brother??

Post by aquila on 11.12.12 20:02

Châtelaine wrote:I am such a simple soul ... I need no more laws than the Ten Commandments ... I'm not a religious person, but all of the basics are there. And I'm wary of the 1,000s+ of new ones, everywhere .

The best bullshit self-help books only use 7 things. The Seven Habits etc that's taking out the three things that are Godly and appeal to the mass market to suit the purpose of the bullshit enlightened author without fear of getting into the messy area of religion. Look up Covey's Seven Habits and you'll find he's a Mormon.

It's the three missing ones that have been thrown intentionally into the abyss that's the problem. That is where the humanity leaves the building and making money enters.

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Re: Big Brother??

Post by tigger on 11.12.12 20:21

[...] 'Civil liberties campaigners have described the proposals as a "snoopers' charter", but Home Secretary Theresa May insists they are vital for countering paedophiles, extremists and fraudsters.' unquote (from CF's post)

spin Now we see why all those dead paedos were being resurrected. Plus a few token live ones of course.

Hmm. A good many people get killed by their toasters, far more than ever get killed by terrorists.

Fraudsters are surely a small problem, tax evasion is legal I understand, that's where most of the money goes.

None of this is new anyway. During the miner's strike phones were tapped all over the place and word-sensitive triggers put in place.
Unfortunately, one of these triggers was: ' picket' or 'picketing' and the system blew a fuse.

Not a big fan of David Icke, but this seems to be our old friend: Problem - Reaction - Solution.

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Re: Big Brother??

Post by aquila on 11.12.12 21:25

@tigger wrote:[...] 'Civil liberties campaigners have described the proposals as a "snoopers' charter", but Home Secretary Theresa May insists they are vital for countering paedophiles, extremists and fraudsters.' unquote (from CF's post)

Now we see why all those dead paedos were being resurrected. Plus a few token live ones of course.

Hmm. A good many people get killed by their toasters, far more than ever get killed by terrorists.

Fraudsters are surely a small problem, tax evasion is legal I understand, that's where most of the money goes.

None of this is new anyway. During the miner's strike phones were tapped all over the place and word-sensitive triggers put in place.
Unfortunately, one of these triggers was: ' picket' or 'picketing' and the system blew a fuse.

Not a big fan of David Icke, but this seems to be our old friend: Problem - Reaction - Solution.

Would that excuse the extremists, paedophiles and fraudsters having a lovely protected existence in our governing bodies? Thought not. The lunatics have finally made an open bid to take over the asylum. Where can I go to seek asylum?

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Re: Big Brother??

Post by Ribisl on 12.12.12 22:42

I haven't been following the news for a few days but I am surprised if Cameron is supporting such a draft bill after his stance against statutory regulation of the press as recommended by the flawed committee headed by Leveson. I imagined he was against the regulation based on the principle of freedom of expression but these latest proposals go totally against our fundamental right to liberty.

Theresa May's suggestion of paedophiles, extremists and fraudsters as three evils of our society is ludicrous and ignore the real danger in giving control of such information to the official bodies such as the police, the Serious and Organised Crime Agency, the intelligence agencies and HM Revenue and Customs. All you need is one rogue operator within these bodies to abuse such sensitive and potentially damaging information.

Much of snooping is already done without the public being made too much aware of and perhaps because of its relatively limited application it hasn't resulted in any major breach of privacy or criminal activities involving trading of such information. Google, for example, track, store and analyse a vast amount of information relating to anything from your browsing pattern to shopping habits. Such information is used primarily to enhance their business but the potential for abuse is clearly evident.

Modern technology is already well beyond our existing legal framework to contain and control. But what is being proposed is a misuse of such technology based on spurious legal justification.

@tigger Tax evasion is illegal. Amazon, Starbucks and Co are in the headlines because of tax avoidance which is legal.

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Re: Big Brother??

Post by tigger on 13.12.12 6:17

goodpost Thanks! Ribisl. I was hoping someone would put me right on the fine line between avoidance and evasion.
On that subject, do you know if donations to a Ltd. Company should be taxed? (see Fund topic) I can't find it anywhere on Google.


Facebook though, will never be regulated as it is a prime harvesting site. Isn't it interesting that if you present such control as being of great benefit to the user, they'll happily supply you with the most sensitive information? All for using a site which gives you the impression that thousands of people are hanging on your every word.

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Re: Big Brother??

Post by Guest on 13.12.12 9:16

Tigger, I always thought that donations to a limited company were taxable. I'll e-mail a friend who is an accountant and let you know what he says.

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Re: Big Brother??

Post by Ribisl on 14.12.12 6:59

@tigger wrote: On that subject, do you know if donations to a Ltd. Company should be taxed? (see Fund topic) I can't find it anywhere on Google.
Tigger, my reply posted in the fund thread.

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