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Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by ultimaThule on 04.05.14 5:39

As I understand it, only one of Clifford's victims has told her story out of court and, as she has done so under the pseudonym 'Cathy Johnson', it cannot be said that she has  'blown her identity' to the extent you describe, aiyoyo.   Furthermore, those newspapers 'Cathy Johnson' has spoken to have made it clear that whatever fees were agreed for her story have been donated to a charity which helps victims of sexual abuse.

I fully understand why, even after their abusers have been tried and found guilty, victims choose not to speak out but it's only when they do that we gain understanding of the insiduous ways in which sexual predators operate and this knowledge enables us to educate our children to guard against them, and also enables us to guard against them ourselves.    

It should be remembered that 'Cathy Johnson' only "remained anonymous for decades" because she was too scared to speak out and by saying "you'd think she would want to retain dignity by continuing to safeguard her identity" it seems to me you are implying that she's best advised to keep quiet about what happened to her which, unfortunately, can serve to perpetuate the sense of shame and self-blame victims of sexual abuse in particular can feel for something that is most emphatically not their fault.

If 'Cathy Johnson' pursues a claim against Clifford for compensation in the civil courts she will lose her right to anonymity and I can only hope that she, and others, find the courage to stand proud and resist the temptation to 'just move on' with their lives at a time when they are newly emerged from the tyranny of victimhood and want to proclaim their liberation from the rooftops.

After enduring many years of psychological torment, 'Cathy Johnson' is reclaiming her power... and I say 'all power to her'.

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And the Hamiltons are also happy

Post by PeterMac on 04.05.14 9:10

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/may/03/christine-hamilton-max-clifford-jailed-toast-champagne
Christine Hamilton, who together with her husband successfully sued Max Clifford for defamation, has admitted that the couple toasted the publicist's downfall with champagne, as Scotland Yard confirmed that it was looking into further allegations against him.
The wife of former Tory minister Neil Hamilton said she did not feel delight over the saga because of the suffering of Clifford's victims, but added: "I just think, 'yes, he's gone. Goodbye Max'."
She added: "I can't think of another person whom I would describe this way, but he is wicked. My husband would possibly put it in stronger words. He might agree with David Mellor, who said, 'May he rot in hell'."
Clifford was sentenced to eight years in prison last Friday for sexually abusing four teenage women. Scotland Yard said on Saturday that other people had now come forward with allegations against Clifford, and that "this is currently subject to review".
The 71-year-old was sued by the Hamiltons in 2002, over his role in promoting on television a false claim of rape against the couple.
The publicist paid out undisclosed damages, and £500,000 in legal costs, after the Hamiltons' alleged victim, Nadine Milroy-Sloan, whose story he helped sell to the News of the World for £50,000, was jailed for three years for seeking to pervert the course of justice.
Hamilton said: "Clifford steamrolled the story forward. We were arrested in the most public way. We went to Barkingside station and, by the time we came out, the entire world was there.
"That was horrendous. We had been interrogated separately by the police and at the end of both of our interviews we were asked, does the name Max Clifford mean anything to you? That was when we said, 'We knew it'.
"We sued him because of things he said on live television."
Hamilton said she believed that "almost the worst thing Clifford did at the time" was to sell the story to the News of the World, during which Milroy-Sloan's anonymity was voluntarily lifted. "Every time someone cries wolf it makes it that bit harder for genuine victims to be believed." "That was his worst crime – against genuine victims."

Now, about another couple who have a paid spokesman, and who have constantly diverted attention from the genuine victim . .

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by russiandoll on 04.05.14 9:57

Good morning


  

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contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by mouse on 04.05.14 12:05

Interesting - the response from some on here to the MC Guilty Verdict. I would guess that none of us sat in on the trial so nobody got to hear the evidence from the Victims in full, nor their impact statements - so I do feel that some here passing judgement on these women are being a tad unfair.

Firstly Aquila - you go girl! 

Aiyoyo - I would guess that the reason this girl has broken her story - is possibly that she feels that at long last last she is believed. Her justice has been done. I wouldn't be surprised if she was urged to make her story known by the prosecution side she is so thankful to. To perhaps make other women come forward who may have suffered in a similar way, not just victims of MC, but other women out there who have suffered at the hands of non-celebrities too....Bringing me to...


Rainbow-Fairy - Sorry to hear your experience, very brave of you to even mention this on the forum. I hope you do find the courage to report this person - but I totally understand if you don't. These women came forward bravely, but did have safety in numbers later. You I guess, have got to be even braver - to come forward yourself. But who knows, once reported you may find you are not the only one. I hope you have a good friend or relative to talk this out with. XX

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by diatribe on 04.05.14 13:14

@ultimaThule wrote:  Furthermore, those newspapers 'Cathy Johnson' has spoken to have made it clear that whatever fees were agreed for her story have been donated to a charity which helps victims of sexual abuse. 

  

To put this into perspective, Ultima, in the immortal words of Mandy Rice Davies '' Well, they would say that, wouldn't they.'' To admit to this witness being paid for her story would create substantial grounds of appeal against Max Clifford's conviction as it would add credence to his defence strategy that the witnesses were financially motivated. 

I am sorry to hear of Ms. Rainbow's unfortunate experience and I trust that she had the presence of mind not to have any further contact with her assailant.

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by mouse on 04.05.14 13:59

@diatribe wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:  Furthermore, those newspapers 'Cathy Johnson' has spoken to have made it clear that whatever fees were agreed for her story have been donated to a charity which helps victims of sexual abuse. 

  

To put this into perspective, Ultima, in the immortal words of Mandy Rice Davies '' Well, they would say that, wouldn't they.'' To admit to this witness being paid for her story would create substantial grounds of appeal against Max Clifford's conviction as it would add credence to his defence strategy that the witnesses were financially motivated. 

I am sorry to hear of Ms. Rainbow's unfortunate experience and I trust that she had the presence of mind not to have any further contact with her assailant.
You appear not to have too much sympathy, or belief  in this victim and her story, and now what is reported as to her fee for the story even though MC has been found guilty. How can you point a finger at her when you have not (I would guess) sat through the trial of MC, and followed all the detailed evidence that must have been given, which brought about the jury's verdict. Newspaper splashes on this trial and other media reporting cannot always be trusted (as we know with regard to the MCanns) so why would you point a finger at a possible victim - when you don't have all the facts. For example- the similarities with the victims experiences. 

Also when you refer to another poster (do not want to use this member as a case) trusting they had the presence of mind not to have further contact. Many victims do not have a choice, when they are young and their abuser is in a position of power, or might be a relative who may have used manipulation/blackmail techniques to get them to do something out of fear of being exposed to other loved ones. Rather like the woman in the MC case.

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by tasprin on 04.05.14 14:23

It's perfectly understandable why they didn't come forward sooner. Many others have and they weren't believed.

This reminds me of another case:

High profile - famous backers and influential contacts in the media - charity work - plenty of money for lawyers - endless opportunities to defend himself in the press and on TV - endless opportunities to trash his accusers (whilst they were gagged).

Mail
As the sex predator was jailed for eight years, she said her trauma had been worsened by the ‘many famous people’ who lined up to defend him.
And she questioned why the publicist had been invited to tour TV stations after his arrest, trashing his accusers as ‘fantasists and liars’. The woman, who has given an interview to the Daily Mail under the pseudonym Cathy Johnson, spoke out after Clifford, 71, was handed a lengthy jail term that surprised even police. Saying Clifford’s fame and power had made him feel above the law, the judge revealed he had increased the sentence because of his arrogant behaviour during the trial – laughing and joking in front of the cameras and in court.

His victims wept and hugged each other as the publicist was jailed. The woman he groomed and abused as a 15-year-old in 1977 told the Daily Mail they were owed an apology by ‘all those who influenced public opinion by subscribing to his “witch hunt” theory.’ She said: ‘Many famous people defended him, adding to his victims’ trauma. You know who you are and you should have the good grace to apologise.’ The woman, whose full interview appears on page six of today’s Daily Mail, added: ‘Justice has been done, I have nothing but contempt and disgust for him.’ After his arrest in 2012, Clifford was invited on to ITV’s Daybreak, where he claimed he was the victim of a ‘witch hunt’. Then during his trial, stars including comedian Des O’Connor, actress Pauline Quirke and Sky TV sports presenter Clare Tomlinson came forward to give evidence supporting Clifford.

The victim added: ‘After he was arrested, he was repeatedly allowed to go on TV and protest his innocence which made me and the other women feel incredibly intimidated. ‘He called us liars and “anonymous women”, when he knew who we were. I nearly backed out of the trial.’ Judge Anthony Leonard QC said he had shown ‘quite extraordinary’ contempt for the girls he sexually abused. He told Clifford the only reason his crimes had not come to light sooner was ‘your own dominant character and your position in the world of entertainment’. The judge said this ‘meant that your victims thought that you were untouchable, something that I think you too believed’.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2618575/Victims-fury-stars-backed-untouchable-Clifford-predator-jailed-eight-years.html#ixzz30keoWCHQ

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by diatribe on 04.05.14 15:47

 ''the judge revealed he had increased the sentence because of his arrogant behaviour during the trial – laughing and joking in front of the cameras and in court.''

Which will only enhance the possibility of this sentence being reduced. Max Clifford's counsel will argue that the judge had no right to sentence him on his out of court antics which bore no relation to the court proceedings. He wasn't convicted of having a disdain for TV presenters, or for that matter a sense of humour. Perhaps his performances would have been better received had he been filmed bowing and praying to Allah a la the McCanns.

I do not subscribe to the hypothesis that these women didn't initially complain of Max Clifford's behaviour due to the fact they didn't think they would be believed because of his influencial status in the publicity industry.  As previously stated, at the time of these offences, Max Clifford would have been an unknown entity in the world of publicity with little financial resources. It was only much later that he acquired any form of power and influence. Max Clifford is an inveterate liar, with all his claims to discovering the Beatles etc. in the early 1960's being nothing more than figments of his imagination. I also don't believe outside of a few people in the entertainment business and sports arena, he has the goods on anyone of importance, a belief born out by the fact that had this been the case, the charges against him would never have been instigated, let alone progressed past the Mags. committal stage.

As for the farcial pretence of maintaining partial anonymity, the images of this woman being portrayed in the 'Daily Mail,' (incidentally, Lord Beaverbrook was the only press baron to have supported Oswald Mosley, Adolf Hitler et al in the 1930's) even though they were taken 30 yrs. ago will have ensured that her true identity would be exposed all over the internet within hrs. if not minutes of the first edition being released.




NB, If I were a person of conspiratorial persuasion, I might even form the conclusion that the judge and meeja were providing Max Clifford with the key to exit Wandsworth gaol, perhaps less affectionately known as the 'Factory.'

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by Nina on 04.05.14 16:31


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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by Dr What on 04.05.14 16:41

Since Mr Clifford was apparently eager to discuss the merits of his manhood with his victims, perhaps his fellow inmates will be interested to compare the size of his member with their own.

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Max Clifford had a partner in crime who is yet to be caught

Post by sharonl on 04.05.14 16:43


Max Clifford had a partner in crime who is yet to be caught

PAEDOPHILE Max Clifford had a partner in crime who has yet to be brought to justice.



By: James Murray
Published: Sun, May 4, 2014



The mystery figure helped him sexually abuse a teenager by pretending to be Bond film producer Cubby Broccoli.

Since Clifford, 71, was jailed for eight years on Friday, other women have come forward with allegations which Scotland Yard says are being assessed. Detectives will be keen to interview them to try to unmask his accomplice.

The unknown man’s role in Clifford’s perverted activities was described by trial judge Anthony Leonard at Southwark Crown Court in London.

One victim, aged 18 or 19, encountered the ­millionaire publicist at the Xenon nightclub off ­Piccadilly.

The judge said: “As she left the dance area you approached her and asked her if she would be interested in acting.

"You enticed her by saying you could get her a screen test for a Bond film.

“You pretended to telephone Cubby Broccoli and when the person on the other end of the telephone spoke to her she was told that, before she could get a screen test, she had to do something else.


You lunged at her and tried to kiss her

Judge Anthony Leonard

“He asked her if Max Clifford was circumcised and asked her to look.

"He had to say it again and you stood beside her smiling.

“You then led her by the hand to the gentlemen’s lavatory and, once inside, locked the door.”

Clifford then got the teenager to perform a sex act on him.

He used the same sinister method to sexually assault a woman of 20 who also wanted to be an actress. She was told she would be perfect for a role in a Charles Bronson film.

The judge said: “You engineered a telephone conversation between her and either you or someone who was in cahoots with you pretending to be Bronson.

"She was encouraged to believe that Bronson was interested in her starring in his film.

“When you reappeared you lunged towards her and tried to kiss her.

"She was really frightened and she was screaming at you to leave her alone.”

The assaults took place between 30 and 37 years ago.

Clifford is believed to have been taken to Wandsworth jail in south London but may later be sent to an open prison.

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by diatribe on 04.05.14 16:52


I stand to be corrected, Nina, but this might be yet another example of tabloid garbage designed to elicit indignation from its readers(I use the word readers in a euphemistic context)

HMP Leyhill is a category D prison and it is unlikely, due to the nature of the offences that Max Clifford has been convicted of, that he will immediately be categorised as a cat. D prisoner. Any offences related to drugs, violence or sex usually warrant A, B or C categorisations. Unless Max Clifford is going to be made an exception to the rule, I would expect him to get a cat. C rating.

Unless of course Simon Cowell is on the Wandsworth allocation board, in which case he may get the thumbs up for the exotic surroundings of a cat D prison where being over the age of fifty will entitle him to his own billet.

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by ultimaThule on 04.05.14 18:04

It appears that particular victim has waived her anonymity, Sharoni http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2619577/The-ex-dancer-account-horror-attack-key-proving-Max-Cliffords-guilt-tells-story-He-said-no-one-believe-I-tell-world-I-did.html

Other victims of this serial sexual predator are also speaking out and a picture is emerging from which it would seem unlikely that Clifford ceased offending 29 years ago.

As it has been reported that additional cases in which Clifford is alleged to have sexually assaulted young women are being investigated, he may be best advised to refrain from expending any more sums on legal fees until such time as the police have completed their enquiries.

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by diatribe on 04.05.14 18:22

@ultimaThule wrote: 

As it has been reported that additional cases in which Clifford is alleged to have sexually assaulted young women are being investigated, he may be best advised to refrain from expending any more sums on legal fees until such time as the police have completed their enquiries.

The police used to wait until a prisoner had finished their sentence, then immediately arrest them upon their release. A 'gate arrest' was every prisoners fear. However, for a great number of yrs. the police have been obligated to put any further charges to a prisoner whilst they are still in custody.

Maybe the police are looking to clear up their books with Max Clifford having every thing from unsolved rapes in the 1960's to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann TIC'd.

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by mouse on 04.05.14 20:09

Glad to see a certain posters comments have now been removed. I felt the comments were going that way, but I couldn't believe what I was actually reading. So offensive to women, and I would think most men. So quick to judge on how a woman looks???? Newsflash! Women have the right to wear what they like without men thinking they are fair game to be assaulted. But I guess there will always be some dinosaurs that will blame the women and make a judgment on one snapshot in time.

Thanks Mods for that.

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by Guest on 04.05.14 20:22

Thanks, mouse. 

One in five women (aged 16-59) has experienced some form of sexual violence since the age of 16:

http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/Statistics2.php

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by aiyoyo on 04.05.14 20:48

@ultimaThule wrote:As I understand it, only one of Clifford's victims has told her story out of court and, as she has done so under the pseudonym 'Cathy Johnson', it cannot be said that she has  'blown her identity' to the extent you describe, aiyoyo.   Furthermore, those newspapers 'Cathy Johnson' has spoken to have made it clear that whatever fees were agreed for her story have been donated to a charity which helps victims of sexual abuse.


I must admit I did not read the article.  But I've seen her photo and personally I feel that pretty much self defeat the point of pseudonym as her identity is nonetheless blown to people who know her or know of her.


I fully understand why, even after their abusers have been tried and found guilty, victims choose not to speak out but it's only when they do that we gain understanding of the insiduous ways in which sexual predators operate and this knowledge enables us to educate our children to guard against them, and also enables us to guard against them ourselves.    

But.....the details of her story and the variety of lasting damage she suffered were already in the public domain anyway !


It should be remembered that 'Cathy Johnson' only "remained anonymous for decades" because she was too scared to speak out and by saying "you'd think she would want to retain dignity by continuing to safeguard her identity" it seems to me you are implying that she's best advised to keep quiet about what happened to her which, unfortunately, can serve to perpetuate the sense of shame and self-blame victims of sexual abuse in particular can feel for something that is most emphatically not their fault.

Now hang on a minute.....don't put words in my mouth and don't twist it out of context !   She did break silence and justice was had.
Seeking publicity post Justice serves no purpose since her story and suffering was already told and heard.
How would showing face personally make a difference to the impact to her story ?
You make it sounds as if seeing her face/knowing her identity would help people to enhance their understanding level of her victimhood?   You lost me there as I don't understand how that works.  
I don't need to relate a face to the victim in order to understand victim's plight and sufferings.  
Personally I don't find seeking publicity endearing.


If 'Cathy Johnson' pursues a claim against Clifford for compensation in the civil courts she will lose her right to anonymity and I can only hope that she, and others, find the courage to stand proud and resist the temptation to 'just move on' with their lives at a time when they are newly emerged from the tyranny of victimhood and want to proclaim their liberation from the rooftops.

You seem to think seeking the limelight post Justice is about her shouting victory publicly and reclaiming her power at emerging from tyranny of victimhood; and that the act is courageous one, something that should help other victims to come forward?
Well, I beg to differ.  
The abuser found guilty and sentenced to jail is strong message to other victims they need not live in fear at not being believed and that they can get justice.  Visual identity of victim would not make an iota of difference to how the law works or how Justice when redress is served.


After enduring many years of psychological torment, 'Cathy Johnson' is reclaiming her power... and I say 'all power to her'.


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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by mouse on 04.05.14 20:48

Lady in Red - just in case you thought it was me - I didn't report the comments. I just read them before they were removed. Absolutely disgusting. Have never heard such Misogynistic comments on this forum before. I can only think that the Mods removed them as they could be on possible dodgy legal grounds - what with them being so specific and personal. They also brought this forum into disrepute.

Shameful, really shameful. And to what end - to plead the defense for the indefensible. A man who was a proven liar in his work, and now a proven criminal.

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by Guest on 04.05.14 20:55

Not at all, mouse, I was thanking you for your comments which reflected my thoughts on what had been posted by diatribe.

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by mouse on 04.05.14 21:05

Guess the Mods are on top form today then Ladyinred -way to go Mods!

Let's hope this thread, regarding such a serious issue, can return to some sensible discussion now. And let's hope that this proven case will give some victims who have kept their silence about their experience of abuse  (I don't mean victims of MC or other Celebs) possibly give them some confidence to at least consider seeking some help/speaking to somebody about what happened to them, and maybe even go so far as to report it to the police.

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by J4MM on 04.05.14 22:16

@diatribe wrote:

HMP Leyhill is a category D prison and it is unlikely, due to the nature of the offences that Max Clifford has been convicted of, that he will immediately be categorised as a cat. D prisoner. Any offences related to drugs, violence or sex usually warrant A, B or C categorisations. Unless Max Clifford is going to be made an exception to the rule, I would expect him to get a cat. C rating.


This is my understanding too.

As a convicted sex offender he will probably be placed on a wing for vulnerable prisoners, along with other prisoners deemed to be at risk if they were to be placed on a mainstream wing, such as sex offenders, ex-police officers and 'grasses'.  He should be grateful that those on the VP wing are kept well away from those on the main wings.

Prisoners have to complete a sentence plan in order to progress to a lower category establishment, which includes courses to change the attitude and behaviour of offenders and help them to reform before release.  If a prisoner refuses to admit guilt, he is deemed ineligible for the courses and therefore he is not co-operating with his sentence plan. 

A prisoner can usually only move to a Cat D prison (open conditions) if they have 2 years or less until they are eligible for release on licence. 

I think it's going to be a while before MC wines and dines in exclusive restaurants, as he did whilst on bail awaiting sentencing.  He won't be able to enjoy trips abroad when he's released on licence either.  Something for him to look forward to for his 80th birthday perhaps?

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Max Clifford case: stars fear revenge by shamed publicist

Post by sharonl on 06.05.14 6:54

Max Clifford case: stars fear revenge by shamed publicist

Max Clifford wrote letters during his trial to former clients asking for money
 



PR Agent, Max Clifford arrives for his sentence at Southwark Crown Court Photo: Nicholas Razzell


By  Robert Mendick, Chief Reporter

7:40AM BST 04 May 2014

 

Max Clifford wrote to previous clients during his sex abuse trial asking for money.


The disclosure will alarm rich and famous figures whose scandals the publicity agent boasted he had covered up.


The 71-year-old, jailed for eight years after being found guilty of indecent assaults against girls and young women, is said to be upset that clients have deserted him.



Having boasted that his job was to keep powerful figures out of the newspapers, the fear is that he could use information he has for revenge.


One well-placed media agent said a former client of Clifford had approached him recently asking for advice.

“Clifford’s former client − a very wealthy individual − came to me before the trial worried that Clifford was going rogue. He said Clifford had become a loose cannon. He described him as wild-eyed,” said the agent.

Clifford, whose business has collapsed, is facing a large legal bill. It is understood that his defence costs were more than £250,000. He also faces civil actions from victims.

His wife has left him and is understood to have consulted divorce lawyers, which will dent any remaining finances.

The letters written to former clients alluded to previous work Clifford did for them and claimed that some bills, or parts of bills, remained unpaid. The Telegraph understands that when police raided Clifford’s home and offices they found damaging material, including a sex tape involving a well-known television presenter.

It is not clear what other evidence Clifford has kept, but there is a fear in celebrity circles that some of it could find its way on to the internet.

____________________
"WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER" - Rebekah Brooks to David Cameron

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by tiny on 06.05.14 7:16

Any one who hired mc deserves all they get.

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by plebgate on 06.05.14 16:58

@tiny wrote:Any one who hired mc deserves all they get.
I agree, nothing to hide, nothing to worry about.

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Re: Update: Max Clifford convicted and sentenced to 8 years: 2nd May 2014

Post by aiyoyo on 07.05.14 6:57

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/max-clifford-conned-former-miss-gb-gemma-out-of-24k-30244362.html

They are all coming out of the woodwork.

Ex miss UK bad mouthing Max Clifford.

Just attention seeking IMO.

aiyoyo

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