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A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by monkey mind on 20.11.12 17:39

Parapono,

“Would not all these McCann/love/hate/info forums with all the group-cult-rituals they perform, serve to feed other energies as well. Not worded well but for a bigger picture I ask you to step back and have another 'feel' at it.”

Sorry, I misunderstood the first time. The answer to that would be yes, they could indeed.

An artist, very lovely. Do you specialise or have a preferred format?

I am most grateful for the flowers my friend, genuinely so.

Sending you peaceful energy :^)

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by Guest on 20.11.12 18:36

err monkey mind,
It's colours and flowers, not like they are but the way they feel.
I make them digitally with Apple. They only excist as a pdf file. To get it hanging on the wall, it is, after being printed by Peter Paul Huf, processed in diasec. Which ends up in a thin glasslike panel with all the light intensity it had on the screen.
The quality of my work is that it makes people smile, relax.
It sooths me and it sooths in general 'the soul'
And each and every of my pics has a soul as well, a loving kind and happy soul.
HiDeHo has seen what I make, I cannot really explain it better

kindest regards

parapono

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by monkey mind on 20.11.12 19:35

Colours and flowers not how they are but how they feel big grin

Sounds absolutely delightful.

And a work of art without a soul, that would be......., hmm, ...incomplete, not sure if that is the right word because again, we are talking about a feeling.

Thank you for sharing that.

We seem to have wandered from the thread. I hope we'll be forgiven :^))

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by Swizzlestick on 20.11.12 20:44

@monkey mind wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
Jean wrote:It reminds me a bit of my experiences with a religious cult many years ago. They were falling over themselves to accommodate me when I first got involved, even arranging a babysitter so that I could attend prayer meetings. Alarm bells started ringing when they tried to take my life over, making it clear that they did not approve of things I did in which they weren't involved.

I left with the words "you'll go straight to hell" ringing in my ears; it was like something out of the Middle Ages! I'd already booked to go on a coach trip with them so my son and I went to avoid losing the money and nobody spoke to us.

The peculiar rituals involved in freemasonry worry me - I can't imagine how any well-adjusted adult would want to be part of something like that.

Any rituals worry me Jean, particularly having nearly been involved in something similar to you many years ago. I could see the power in it and thus the opportunity for brain washing and control. It was scarey. Anything can be made sacred if you perform a ritual to it.
Ritual and ceremony can be multi layered. What you perceive to be taking place may not be the hidden purpose of the ritual or ceremony. Whilst it is true brainwashing and control can be an outcome of ritual it is sometimes helpful to look even deeper.

We have all witnessed ritual and ceremony at some time in our lives from a simple church or temple service to the opening of parliament or the investiture of a monarch. But how many actually question what is really going on? Nor is it necessary for the person performing the ceremony to be aware of it’s deeper purpose.

Everything in the seen and unseen Universe is energy vibrating at one frequency or another and these energies or aspects of them can be linked to by symbols or sigils. Think of it in this somewhat simplistic way, if your name is Harry, then the written word ‘Harry’ is a symbolic representation of the oral/aural vibration of the word ‘Harry’ wich is in turn a representation of the person or body known as Harry. All three are intrinsically linked energetically although we cannot see this with the naked eye per se.

In the same way, many unseen energies or forces more commonly known as elemental/astral forces, angels, demons, djinns, tengu, kami, devas asuras, tulpas, whatever, the names are countless according to culture and aspect and in the same way these energies can be represented / linked by various symbols and sigils. And in the same way as calling the name ‘Harry’ gets Harry’s attention, so too the use of ceremony, ritual and symbolism can be used to invoke various energies.

In the modern, materialist day this is referred to by almost all as folklore, myth, nonsense or mumbo jumbo. To others, far fewer others, it is known to be exactly what it is.

The passive witness to the ceremony also plays his/her part whether knowingly or otherwise. In the world of energy there is a truism, “energy flows where attention goes”. This is in fact the power of prayer, when we pray for someone, our attention goes to them along with energy. So the passive witnesses to a ceremony, serving it with their attention, whether they be 20 or 20,000 strong, are consciously or otherwise fuelling that ceremony.

So the fact is, if an organisation, institution or religion is steeped in ceremony and ritual then it is almost certainly - whether we like it or not, at some level with almost all of its members unaware but known to a few, practising or has been practising what may be called occult magic. Occult does not necessarily mean black magic, it can do, but it more accurately means ‘hidden’, and it is, because you don’t know about it.

An example of this kind of magic overtly and openly practised with the full knowledge of all onlookers is carried out on an almost daily basis by the Dalai Lama. He has several ‘oracles’. In this instance (and in most instances), an oracle is simply a person, one whom these elemental forces can enter more easily. A specific ceremony is performed summoning a specific energetic force which enters the oracle's body, possessing it in effect, and it communicates with the Dalai Lama. Mumbo jumbo? The Dalai Lama doesn’t think so, he even has a State Oracle who resides with him permanently called the Nechung I believe. The Nechung Oracle is a powerful and prominent entity in Tibetan history and religion.

Now if the head of Tibetan Buddhism believes in and practices the power of ceremony and ritual to summon elemental/astral forces what are we to think of the heads of other major religions and organisations that regularly practice the same? The pope or others like him and those close to them? The supreme mason or whatever he’s called and his buddies? What about royalty? Everything they do is steeped in ceremony and ritual. Are we to believe it’s all just a show intended to induce a bit of humility in the plebs, and the participants along with everyone else are ignorant as to alternative significance and purpose?

Everyone except the Dalai Lama that is......

Well that’s what they want people to think how it is, and that’s how it is because that’s how it’s meant to be. That is why there were secret societies and mystery schools going as far back as humanity itself. Because these practices can be dangerous but if correctly done can bestow power and wealth. That’s why these small, unknown, mystery schools exist to this day in every country on the planet, but the real power, the real knowledge, is reserved for those only at the very top of such organisations. Senior masons have admitted as much in print that the rank and file degrees are deliberately deceived as to the true significance of ceremonies and symbols and that’s just the one’s they are aware of. Deception within a deception. How honourable.

The need for personal power, demands secrecy and sadly appeals to the very basest part of the human psyche, and that my friends, is the reason why, in most instances, that desire to become a politician should be the very reason disqualifying one.

So there we go, this knowledge now qualifies us all as 34th degree masons! Chuckle. Take it or leave it. Now that doesn't mean that all ceremony has occult meaning, of course not, many are simply copies and extensions propounded by the ignorant, but personally speaking, I wouldn't take them all at face value. ....

I thought your post was really interesting Monkey Mind, and very insightful. I believe strongly in energies / thoughts affecting people, actions, and life in general.

I watched a film a few years ago that explained the power of thought in relation to tendencies of atomic material that was very interesting, and I guess could in some way be applied to the significance of the symbolism and rituals that you have mentioned.

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by Guest on 20.11.12 21:19

@monkey mind wrote:[...]

The need for personal power, demands secrecy and sadly appeals to the very basest part of the human psyche, and that my friends, is the reason why, in most instances, that desire to become a politician should be the very reason disqualifying one.

Something I've been saying for ages, but in reverse: an honest person cannot survive in a snakepit - or words to that extent ;-)

So there we go, this knowledge now qualifies us all as 34th degree masons! Chuckle. [...]
I chuckled :-D

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Bang On

Post by Swizzlestick on 20.11.12 21:58

Châtelaine wrote:
@monkey mind wrote:[...]

The need for personal power, demands secrecy and sadly appeals to the very basest part of the human psyche, and that my friends, is the reason why, in most instances, that desire to become a politician should be the very reason disqualifying one.

Something I've been saying for ages, but in reverse: an honest person cannot survive in a snakepit - or words to that extent ;-)

So there we go, this knowledge now qualifies us all as 34th degree masons! Chuckle. [...]
I chuckled :-D

You're so right Chatelaine.

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by cath2756 on 20.11.12 22:44

[quote="monkey mind"]
@Woofer wrote:
Jean wrote:It reminds me a bit of my experiences with a religious cult many years ago. They were falling over themselves to accommodate me when I first got involved, even arranging a babysitter so that I could attend prayer meetings. Alarm bells started ringing when they tried to take my life over, making it clear that they did not approve of things I did in which they weren't involved.

I left with the words "you'll go straight to hell" ringing in my ears; it was like something out of the Middle Ages! I'd already booked to go on a coach trip with them so my son and I went to avoid losing the money and nobody spoke to us.

The peculiar rituals involved in freemasonry worry me - I can't imagine how any well-adjusted adult would want to be part of something like that.

Any rituals worry me Jean, particularly having nearly been involved in something similar to you many years ago. I could see the power in it and thus the opportunity for brain washing and control. It was scarey. Anything can be made sacred if you perform a ritual to it.
Ritual and ceremony can be multi layered. What you perceive to be taking place may not be the hidden purpose of the ritual or ceremony. Whilst it is true brainwashing and control can be an outcome of ritual it is sometimes helpful to look even deeper.

We have all witnessed ritual and ceremony at some time in our lives from a simple church or temple service to the opening of parliament or the investiture of a monarch. But how many actually question what is really going on? Nor is it necessary for the person performing the ceremony to be aware of it’s deeper purpose.

Everything in the seen and unseen Universe is energy vibrating at one frequency or another and these energies or aspects of them can be linked to by symbols or sigils. Think of it in this somewhat simplistic way, if your name is Harry, then the written word ‘Harry’ is a symbolic representation of the oral/aural vibration of the word ‘Harry’ wich is in turn a representation of the person or body known as Harry. All three are intrinsically linked energetically although we cannot see this with the naked eye per se.

In the same way, many unseen energies or forces more commonly known as elemental/astral forces, angels, demons, djinns, tengu, kami, devas asuras, tulpas, whatever, the names are countless according to culture and aspect and in the same way these energies can be represented / linked by various symbols and sigils. And in the same way as calling the name ‘Harry’ gets Harry’s attention, so too the use of ceremony, ritual and symbolism can be used to invoke various energies.

In the modern, materialist day this is referred to by almost all as folklore, myth, nonsense or mumbo jumbo. To others, far fewer others, it is known to be exactly what it is.

The passive witness to the ceremony also plays his/her part whether knowingly or otherwise. In the world of energy there is a truism, “energy flows where attention goes”. This is in fact the power of prayer, when we pray for someone, our attention goes to them along with energy. So the passive witnesses to a ceremony, serving it with their attention, whether they be 20 or 20,000 strong, are consciously or otherwise fuelling that ceremony.

So the fact is, if an organisation, institution or religion is steeped in ceremony and ritual then it is almost certainly - whether we like it or not, at some level with almost all of its members unaware but known to a few, practising or has been practising what may be called occult magic. Occult does not necessarily mean black magic, it can do, but it more accurately means ‘hidden’, and it is, because you don’t know about it.

An example of this kind of magic overtly and openly practised with the full knowledge of all onlookers is carried out on an almost daily basis by the Dalai Lama. He has several ‘oracles’. In this instance (and in most instances), an oracle is simply a person, one whom these elemental forces can enter more easily. A specific ceremony is performed summoning a specific energetic force which enters the oracle's body, possessing it in effect, and it communicates with the Dalai Lama. Mumbo jumbo? The Dalai Lama doesn’t think so, he even has a State Oracle who resides with him permanently called the Nechung I believe. The Nechung Oracle is a powerful and prominent entity in Tibetan history and religion.

Now if the head of Tibetan Buddhism believes in and practices the power of ceremony and ritual to summon elemental/astral forces what are we to think of the heads of other major religions and organisations that regularly practice the same? The pope or others like him and those close to them? The supreme mason or whatever he’s called and his buddies? What about royalty? Everything they do is steeped in ceremony and ritual. Are we to believe it’s all just a show intended to induce a bit of humility in the plebs, and the participants along with everyone else are ignorant as to alternative significance and purpose?

Everyone except the Dalai Lama that is......

Well that’s what they want people to think how it is, and that’s how it is because that’s how it’s meant to be. That is why there were secret societies and mystery schools going as far back as humanity itself. Because these practices can be dangerous but if correctly done can bestow power and wealth. That’s why these small, unknown, mystery schools exist to this day in every country on the planet, but the real power, the real knowledge, is reserved for those only at the very top of such organisations. Senior masons have admitted as much in print that the rank and file degrees are deliberately deceived as to the true significance of ceremonies and symbols and that’s just the one’s they are aware of. Deception within a deception. How honourable.

The need for personal power, demands secrecy and sadly appeals to the very basest part of the human psyche, and that my friends, is the reason why, in most instances, that desire to become a politician should be the very reason disqualifying one.

So there we go, this knowledge now qualifies us all as 34th degree masons! Chuckle. Take it or leave it. Now that doesn't mean that all ceremony has occult meaning, of course not, many are simply copies and extensions propounded by the ignorant, but personally speaking, I wouldn't take them all at face value

Ceromony and Ritual will always be a part of the 33rd degree Masonic Ritual, Knight's Templar. Knight's of Malta. Order of the Rosy Cross etc. We will never be priveledge to the 'Knowledge' Note knowledge is referred to in Masonic terms as 'Knowledge' with a capital letter. Basically no Mason is privvy to the secrets bestowed upon the 33rd Degree Masons. Mason's of lower degrees go through an initiation ceromony whereby they have a noose around the neck, bared chest etc. but they are the respectable front for what happens once/if ever they reach the 33rd degree. I became interested in the whole thing when I found a postcard, signed Henry St Clair in a property I bought. It is no coincidence that our town had Adam Smith born here, Robert Adam, Andrew Carnegie (10 mins from here) Sandford Fleming, Gordon Brown, Jack Vettriano etc. etc. etc. William St Clair, who built Rosslyn Chapel also lived in my home town in the 1400's. We are twinned with Ingolstatd, the town where the Illuminati were started. I could go on and on re Michael Portillo, David Steele etc. but I will bore everyone to death

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by Woofer on 20.11.12 23:15

It was good reading your words Monkey Mind, all of which I agree with.

Yes, energy and the focussing thereof. And yes, occultism can be positive or negative.

IMO most of us on this forum have our energies focussed on justice, so we`ve found a common place. Let`s hope it will do some good.

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by monkey mind on 21.11.12 11:32

Cath2756, you said....

“Ceromony and Ritual will always be a part of the 33rd degree Masonic Ritual, Knight's Templar. Knight's of Malta. Order of the Rosy Cross etc. We will never be priveledge to the 'Knowledge' Note knowledge is referred to in Masonic terms as 'Knowledge' with a capital letter. Basically no Mason is privvy to the secrets bestowed upon the 33rd Degree Masons.”

Yes, this is very true. The million dollar question I am hoping people will ask themselves is, “Why?” why is ceremony/ritual/symbolism embedded in the establishment? In religion, royalty, government and secret societies like the freemasons? Why?

Is it wholly innocent? Is it all just a show put on for the entertainment of those involved or to impress the unworthy? In some instances this is undoubtedly true, but does that apply to them all, just a show? It would be naive to think so, understandable because we have no reason to think any different for the most part, but nonetheless naive.

Woofer just expressed it beautifully - the focusing of energy. And in this dualistic universe energy runs the full gamut between what we may call ‘positive’ or ‘negative’. All symbols, shapes, colours, sounds resonate at their own individual frequency, and those frequencies may fall at any point between what we call the positive and negative. So, a building or room constructed of certain shapes and adorned with various symbols will vibrate at those frequencies and resonate with those universal energies. It’s the very same principle as with a tuning fork. Tap one tuning fork and hold another nearby, the second will begin to resonate in harmony with the first. Sympathetic vibration. The builders of some of the great gothic cathedrals were men of genius in this respect and I bow to them in awe.

Ceremony and ritual perform the same purpose essentially, and when performed in conjunction with symbols, in buildings of a certain construction, and words are incanted, words which again have specific vibrations, then they become powerful tools for the focusing of universal energies or forces. Location, alignment, incense, oils lunar/solar/stellar forces, time of year, all play their part to a degree or 33.

But why limit ourselves to masons? As I said in an earlier post symbolism and ritual are rife in many areas just beyond our touch and ken, from the church or temple, or the opening of parliament to the investiture of a monarch. Just look at your average church, temple or cathedral ceremony, they contain almost all of the elements mentioned above and one or two others, and all of those essential ingredients will be found in the more important rituals of secret societies and in the rites performed by an adept practicing black or white magic.

A building skillfully designed and built a thousand years ago to a specific frequency will still resonate with that frequency today. (Test it. Walk into one of the great gothic cathedrals built about 800 years ago, take note of how you feel before entering, wander round for half an hour and see how you feel when you come out.) The same can be said of a ritual or ceremony. A ritual crafted two or three thousand years ago with a specific intent or purpose, to attract certain energies or forces will in all likelihood still perform admirably today, particularly if it has been done so regularly. And it need not matter that the person or persons performing it are unaware of its original intent, it obviously helps but not imperative.

I suggest it is not an accident that so many of these things just beyond our grasp, seemingly reserved for the privileged are mysterious and beyond our knowledge, bathed in secrecy, often openly. The thing is to ask why? And just because something is performed in secrecy does that mean it is dishonourable? Not necessarily, but if an organisation is steeped in ceremony and deceives its own members then that may be an indicator as to its ulterior objective. And just because a ceremony is performed openly, in circumstances we have been led to believe are for the good, does that mean that was the original intent when it was crafted in the dim and distant past or adapted/adopted from an even older system?

Nothing may be quite what it seems, but you’re not supposed to think that. Anyway, enough said, I’ll shut up now. As I said earlier, take it or leave it.

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by tigger on 21.11.12 11:44

@ Monkeymind

I agree with you but have you considered that quite a number of people who are e.g. Freemasons and possibly even Mr. Smethurst, may not experience or even comprehend these occult theories/ceremonies?
Take part but not understand, in much the same way one may drive a car and not know how it works.

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by Swizzlestick on 21.11.12 12:05

@tigger wrote:@ Monkeymind

I agree with you but have you considered that quite a number of people who are e.g. Freemasons and possibly even Mr. Smethurst, may not experience or even comprehend these occult theories/ceremonies?
Take part but not understand, in much the same way one may drive a car and not know how it works.

Just thought this might be of interest to you Tigger - my very close family member who is a high-ranking freemason has degrees in Chemistry and Law, but I got the impression that a lot of them weren't quite "so aware", but thought they were part of something big?

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by monkey mind on 21.11.12 12:43

@tigger wrote:@ Monkeymind

I agree with you but have you considered that quite a number of people who are e.g. Freemasons and possibly even Mr. Smethurst, may not experience or even comprehend these occult theories/ceremonies?
Take part but not understand, in much the same way one may drive a car and not know how it works.

Absolutely Tigger, there is no question of this. Real power by it’s very nature is exclusive, otherwise it wouldn’t be power now would it. In any establishment utilising such occult practices it is imperative that almost everyone not only outside the organisation but within it are clueless. As they move toward the inner circle they may gain an inkling but nothing specific. This was one of the points I was trying to convey (along with we’re not just talking of masons here) – clearly not very well big grin

From my first post about this...

“So the fact is, if an organisation, institution or religion is steeped in ceremony and ritual then it is almost certainly - whether we like it or not, at some level with almost all of its members unaware but known to a few, practising or has been practising what may be called occult magic. Occult does not necessarily mean black magic, it can do, but it more accurately means ‘hidden’, and it is, because you don’t know about it.”

“.....but the real power, the real knowledge, is reserved for those only at the very top of such organisations. Senior masons have admitted as much in print that the rank and file degrees are deliberately deceived as to the true significance of ceremonies and symbols and that’s just the one’s they are aware ofDeception within a deception. How honourable.”

And my last.....

“A ritual crafted two or three thousand years ago with a specific intent or purpose, to attract certain energies or forces will in all likelihood still perform admirably today, particularly if it has been done so regularly. And it need not matter that the person or persons performing it are unaware of its original intent, it obviously helps but not imperative.”

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by Woofer on 21.11.12 13:19

Monkey Mind said "The million dollar question I am hoping people will ask themselves is, “Why?” why is ceremony/ritual/symbolism embedded in the establishment? In religion, royalty, government and secret societies like the freemasons? Why?"

I have asked myself and initially replied `control and thus power over others for good or bad`.

As we know, feelings of seriousness, gravity, profundity etc. which speak of consequences need to be instilled, whether into the shallow minded serfs or those joining brotherhoods or other sects. We all know the feeling of it being a profound gesture when we say an oath or have a fellow in a gold cloak sprinkle water and say `holy` words. And in the case of the initiation ceremony for masons, the subject is enacting feelings of total vulnerability and possibly about to die (noose around neck). There have to be threats of death when it comes to secret societies or else the novices would take it all too flippantly and possibly blab. Its all a bit old testament.

Any ceremony enhances the feelings of importance that religion, law, government and royalty have to display; its all theatre and its all threatening. Rather than seeing the queen or archbishop in all their regalia, imagine them taking a shower or having sex and you will see them as they are in reality.

We know there are both positive and negative occult teachings but it has to be something learnt gradually - calculus can`t be understood unless basic maths is learnt first. This would be the case in theosophical teachings but not sure about masonry - is there a higher learning or are there certain secrets imparted at certain levels? Most theosophical teachings are for gaining self knowledge rather than power; not sure about masonry.

So the answer as to why the establishment, religions, government are steeped in ritual and ceremony is to maintain power and control IMO.

As I said before, one could give a coat hanger or a stone powerful significance if one felt so inclined.

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by PeterMac on 21.11.12 13:23

The Power thing is fascinating.
As one moves up any organisation one is supposed to believe that someone, or something has some hidden knowledge, some occult power, which only the High Priests of that particular organisation can access. Whether that is the Command Corridor of a police force, the High priests of any Religion, the Senior Management of any very large organisation, Cabinet, Privy Council, Joint Chiefs of Staff, they are all exactly the same.

Then when you are finally one of the chosen ones and allowed into the Inner Sanctum, behind the heavy oaken doors, or just behind the screen, the truth is revealed . . .
And like the Wizard of Oz or that Woody Allen film it turns out to be an illusion. Just a lot of rather silly people dressed up in rather silly clothing and doing rather silly things.
But the power is still there, and it depends on making the people in the lower ranks believe that there is a secret, that someone has the tablets, or the book, or the scrolls, or the crystal, or the Magic Spell, or the ability to raise the Dead, or to cast out demons, or to stop the run on the Pound, or whatever other nonsense is involved.
And now YOU are part of that.
You now have the Power.
And the duty of silence is now so strong upon you that tearing out your tongue and burying you up to the neck in sand at low tide (Freemasonry again, I'm afraid) is the best thing that could happen.

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by Woofer on 21.11.12 13:42

PS

There is something in the saying `a problem shared is a problem halved` implying that sharing a powerful energy weakens it. Further, the more people have knowledge the less powerful the knowledge is, so lets keep it select and powerful !

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by PeterMac on 21.11.12 13:52

@Woofer wrote:
As I said before, one could give a coat hanger or a stone powerful significance if one felt so inclined.
No need. They already have.
Coat hangers are routinely used in dowsing, with great success we are told.
The Coronation of the English Monarch involves sitting on a throne under which is a large magic stone, whilst they are anointed with the religious oil.

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by Woofer on 21.11.12 13:57

@PeterMac wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
As I said before, one could give a coat hanger or a stone powerful significance if one felt so inclined.
No need. They already have.
Coat hangers are routinely used in dowsing, with great success we are told.
The Coronation of the English Monarch involves sitting on a throne under which is a large magic stone, whilst they are anointed with the religious oil.

Very funny Peter ..... but its not a stone that I gave significance to ! Who said it was magic?

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by monkey mind on 21.11.12 14:01

But Peter, what if there really is more to heaven and earth than meets the eye of materialism? Then the simplistic solution would be both applauded and encouraged.

The conscious manipulation of unseen energies is a very real thing, but the surety of that fact will only come through experience. Until then it will be largely scoffed at, and that suits some just fine.

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by tigger on 21.11.12 14:13

@PeterMac wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
As I said before, one could give a coat hanger or a stone powerful significance if one felt so inclined.
No need. They already have.
Coat hangers are routinely used in dowsing, with great success we are told.
The Coronation of the English Monarch involves sitting on a throne under which is a large magic stone, whilst they are anointed with the religious oil.

But I find television and radio quite magical, even when explained. I can't see it, yet it's there. I also find the uncanny sense of direction that most men have quite magical, because it's rare for a woman to have this - I have almost the reverse so I learnt to read maps.

Dowsing has been subject to quite a few trials and I think it is probably the individual and not the tool that matters.
Anyway, they managed to crown quite a number of kings and queens without using the stone. I expect the Scots want it back despite having a history of even worse kings than England.

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by Woofer on 21.11.12 14:23

As you`ve said MM, if an entity or many entities give significance to something, energies are focused on it and that energy abounds in its vicinity, thus attracting more and more of the same energies, but those energies have to be interested/have an attraction to it in the first place. An example may be a pub where those drawn to alcohol may gather or perhaps a brothel where those drawn by lust may gather. I`ve never been in a brothel but could imagine there would be palpable energies/feelings inside said building that one would either be drawn into or repulsed by. The same goes for churches where different energies gather and thus attract more entities drawn by that magnetism. IMO whatever energies we carry, there we will be drawn, if we so wish.

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by monkey mind on 21.11.12 15:21

“The Coronation of the English Monarch involves sitting on a throne under which is a large magic stone, whilst they are anointed with the religious oil.”

Some stones can have extraordinary energetic properties, magnetic and electrical or radio active for instance. As we are an electro-magnetic organisms I wouldn’t advise anyone to sit atop a powerful rare earth magnet – which is essentially a stone - for too long. It could have profound effects upon your central nervous system amongst other things. That wouldn’t be magic, it’s well understood and so becomes science.

Essential or volatile oils contain the essence of plants and as such can be powerful energetic stimulants to various aspects of the body, nervous system, and immune system. Specific extractions or combinations could certainly have mind altering effects. Again, the vast majority would dismiss such mind altering effects as mere delusion, whilst many experienced in such *hallucinations* claim they are doorways to other realms where they communicate with other beings. A South American shaman would be versed in the healing and mind altering properties of hundreds of plants that science is ignorantof. Ask any number of these shaman untainted by civilisation where they gained their knowledge and they would answer as one "The plants told me". By that they do not mean it spoke to them, they mean the ingestion of certain plants changed their consciousness and revealed the knowledge of the safety, dangers and uses of not only that plant but others.

Of course the nay sayers have no experience of their own yet will dismiss this as absolute nonsense, certain in their own ignorance. Such is the power of conditioning and the ego's belief in its own infallibility, to close the door without the slightest observation or question. Sadly, that's a quality we all possess to one extent or another. It's what most of the public have done with this case is it not, scan a headline or two and the mind is made up, implaccable in its certainty.

The point is once again there may be more to what you see taking place than first appears.

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by monkey mind on 21.11.12 15:35

@Woofer wrote:As you`ve said MM, if an entity or many entities give significance to something, energies are focused on it and that energy abounds in its vicinity, thus attracting more and more of the same energies, but those energies have to be interested/have an attraction to it in the first place. An example may be a pub where those drawn to alcohol may gather or perhaps a brothel where those drawn by lust may gather. I`ve never been in a brothel but could imagine there would be palpable energies/feelings inside said building that one would either be drawn into or repulsed by. The same goes for churches where different energies gather and thus attract more entities drawn by that magnetism. IMO whatever energies we carry, there we will be drawn, if we so wish.
Yes Woofer, certain buildings will attract certain people. But the point I try to make is that the ceremonies, ritual, symbols and buildings etc, which are all intrinsically linked are not specifically created to attract people to the buildings but to introduce something else to the building space and people therein, either an energetic influence or altered state of consciousness or both.

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Re: A warm, personal, spoken 2-minute invitation by Sir David Trippier to join the East Lancashire Provincial Grand Masonic Lodge

Post by Woofer on 21.11.12 16:31

@monkey mind wrote:
@Woofer wrote:As you`ve said MM, if an entity or many entities give significance to something, energies are focused on it and that energy abounds in its vicinity, thus attracting more and more of the same energies, but those energies have to be interested/have an attraction to it in the first place. An example may be a pub where those drawn to alcohol may gather or perhaps a brothel where those drawn by lust may gather. I`ve never been in a brothel but could imagine there would be palpable energies/feelings inside said building that one would either be drawn into or repulsed by. The same goes for churches where different energies gather and thus attract more entities drawn by that magnetism. IMO whatever energies we carry, there we will be drawn, if we so wish.
Yes Woofer, certain buildings will attract certain people. But the point I try to make is that the ceremonies, ritual, symbols and buildings etc, which are all intrinsically linked are not specifically created to attract people to the buildings but to introduce something else to the building space and people therein, either an energetic influence or altered state of consciousness or both.

So whether the buildings are created specifically to attract people or not does not come into it - its a `something else` that`s introduced? I would suggest the `something else` isn`t there at all until the relevent entities with their individual energies gather there. It is not `introduced`, it just occurs because of the entities coming into that vicinity. With a masonic lodge for instance, it attracts people who want to get on in business and who have no qualms about breaking the law to protect a fellow brother - they`re all of a type, all like minded, so that`s the energy that occurs. Throw in a chequered floor and a few symbols (which I agree do have their own energies, if one wants to acknowledge them) and in total it becomes a very intense energy. But only if one acknowledges or focuses on it as such. One does not have to give it attention and its nothing that can be forced on an aware person - maybe an unaware person, yes.

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