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Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

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Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by Ribisl on 14.11.12 18:32

On 15 November 2012, in the first ever elections, 41 new police and crime commissioners will be elected across England and Wales to give you a say when it comes to cutting crime in your area.
http://www.policeelections.com/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19495787

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by Ribisl on 14.11.12 19:07



John Prescott is one of the few celebrities to be standing in tomorrow's PCC elections. The other candidates are ordinary members of the public with an interest in their communities.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2012/11/who-are-the-bbc-to-question-the-legitimacy-of-police-crime-commissioners/

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by Bob Southgate on 14.11.12 19:38

This whole fiasco is a waste of public money and it will not make local police any more accountable than they are now. Most of the candidates have been put forward by the main political parties and there are very few independants because of the £5000 deposit that had to be paid to be able to stand as a candidate. Policing and crime panels will be able to veto decisions by the PCC and they will have the dead hand of the Home Office behind them should anyone too radical get elected and start doing things that don't toe the Home Office line.

I for one will not be wasting energy to get up and vote on this pile of garbage.

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by pauline on 14.11.12 20:17

@Bob Southgate wrote:This whole fiasco is a waste of public money and it will not make local police any more accountable than they are now. Most of the candidates have been put forward by the main political parties and there are very few independants because of the £5000 deposit that had to be paid to be able to stand as a candidate. Policing and crime panels will be able to veto decisions by the PCC and they will have the dead hand of the Home Office behind them should anyone too radical get elected and start doing things that don't toe the Home Office line.

I for one will not be wasting energy to get up and vote on this pile of garbage.

Bob, I understand how you feel. I often feel like that with ordinary elections but what I do is vote for the one who appears from my research to be the least bad candidate. If you don't vote, then the worst candidate may be elected. On rare occasions I have spoilt my ballot paper and written an appropriate comment. the candidates, their election agents and helpers see the spoilt papers so it sends a message. Please don't stay at home, make the effort to vote even though you can't find a candidate you wish to positively support.

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by Ribisl on 14.11.12 20:43

@Bob Southgate wrote:This whole fiasco is a waste of public money and it will not make local police any more accountable than they are now. Most of the candidates have been put forward by the main political parties and there are very few independants because of the £5000 deposit that had to be paid to be able to stand as a candidate. Policing and crime panels will be able to veto decisions by the PCC and they will have the dead hand of the Home Office behind them should anyone too radical get elected and start doing things that don't toe the Home Office line.

I for one will not be wasting energy to get up and vote on this pile of garbage.
That was more or less my reaction to this too when I saw political parties canvassing for their candidates. I was interested in finding out more about it from people like yourself as the whole thing seems to have passed me by till now. So thanks for your comment.

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by Bob Southgate on 14.11.12 21:05

@pauline wrote:Bob, I understand how you feel. I often feel like that with ordinary elections but what I do is vote for the one who appears from my research to be the least bad candidate. If you don't vote, then the worst candidate may be elected. On rare occasions I have spoilt my ballot paper and written an appropriate comment. the candidates, their election agents and helpers see the spoilt papers so it sends a message. Please don't stay at home, make the effort to vote even though you can't find a candidate you wish to positively support.

Pauline,

The ordinary elections are very different to the PCC elections. I have never missed voting for local authority, general or european elections but this one is very different. At a time when money is extremely tight the government has pumped almost £100 million into this nonsense that will make little difference if any to levels of accountability. In my area the conservative will be a shoe in and over the last 30 months I have seen Cameron and May aidded and abetted by their appointee Tom Winsor) systematically attack policing and to utterly demoralise police officers around the country with their "reform".

It's nothing to do with the calibre of candidates on offer and everything to do with the whole thing being a smoke and mirrors con.

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Why???

Post by uppatoffee on 14.11.12 21:31

I do not understand the point in these elections. It seems like we are being forced to employ a politician to oversee the local police authority on a salary of £85k pa. Why this is necessary I am not sure, especially as our local council recently announced budget cuts of £20M and a loss of 300 jobs, £6M of which is being cut from Children's Services, which it can ill afford to lose.

The election of this seemingly superfluous role seems to fly in the face of these cuts. I would much rather save the money for a PCC and give the money back to Children's services. The only information I have seen about the candidates is in our council magazine, where there was a small bio about each candidate. There is very little on the local paper website, not even a photo of each candidate with their bio. What are these politicians going to bring to the role? How are they going to ensure that party politics do not interfere with their role? How will they work with the local Chief Constable?

I am not sure whether I am going to vote. I feel I am so badly informed about why we need them and who to vote for.

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by Ribisl on 14.11.12 21:57

@uppatoffee wrote:How are they going to ensure that party politics do not interfere with their role?
They can't is the simple answer. This is madness. The police force, like the judiciary, must be totally free from any political bias in order to maintain their integrity.
Full list of candidates can be found on the BBC site linked above.

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by Bob Southgate on 14.11.12 22:24

This is Peels 5th principle of policing:-

To seek and to preserve public favour, not by pandering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolutely impartial service to law, in complete independence of policy, and without regard to the justice or injustices of the substance of individual laws; by ready offering of individual service and friendship to all members of the public without regard to their wealth or social standing; by ready exercise of courtesy and friendly good humour; and by ready offering of individual sacrifice in protecting and preserving life.

Over the years this has been undermined bit by bit thanks to interfering politicians and the useless idiots who now in habit the Association of Conniving Political Opportunists. Now throwing the PCC's into the mix will mean more political interference with most of the PCC's toeing their party line. It won't make the slightest bit of difference to accountability, despite what May and her ilk are telling us.

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by aiyoyo on 15.11.12 3:50

@Ribisl wrote:

John Prescott is one of the few celebrities to be standing in tomorrow's PCC elections. The other candidates are ordinary members of the public with an interest in their communities.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2012/11/who-are-the-bbc-to-question-the-legitimacy-of-police-crime-commissioners/

Well, well, well, I will be damned......!
Isn't that "2 Jags" Prescott? Why - is he going to patrol the constituency in his Jag?
If it is about public interest or interest in the communities, why can't he opt to join Neighbourhood Watch? NO pay in it of course - silly me.

The lucrative pay is enough to buy him a third Jag, no wonder he's standing for election.

It's ludicrous that the government has budgeted over 3Million/year to have 41 PCC for purely ceremonial role!
Hierarchy system and structure exist within Police Academy for good legal, practical, logistic and whatever reasons, so why the need for some ceremonial figures to oversee them. The rank and file will be pissed they are doing the front line hard work with inherent danger as part of their occupational hazard, and some dick heads get appointed on better (perhaps triple or quadruple) police officers' wages, just to park on their fat bums shifting papers or worst still interfere in their policies. What's the fcuking point of the Ceremonial figures?

Anyway allowing past politicians to stand for election is not a wise decision. After all you can take a man out of a Political Party, you can't take Political Allegiance out of a man, so there should be clear rules prohibiting ex-politicians from standing for election. It's not about affordability to pay the deposit upfront, or is it?

People should protest in lieu of vote at the Polling Stations and make it known to the Government they can't willy nilly spend frivolously especially when they've announced cut on nearly every essential thing.
On one hand they penalise OAP by reducing pensions and winter allowance and what not, then at the same time they spend frivolously on something stupid like Police figure heads for ceremonial purposes. It just does not make sense to be penny wise and pound foolish.





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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by aquila on 15.11.12 9:18

How to sneak politics into policing. An article in today's Daily Mail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2233126/David-Camerons-bid-beat-police-poll-apathy-Record-low-turnout-feared-commissioner-vote.html

A snippet from our illustrious leader DC.

[size=21]'But today, for the first time ever, everyone in the country can vote for one local law and order champion who sets the priorities for their police force.




‘In four years’ time, they can judge that person on their record. If they have done a good job, they can vote them in again. If they have done a bad job, they can kick them out.


‘The days of the unelected, unaccountable police authorities, who no one has ever heard of, are over. This represents a . . . big step towards people having a greater say in how their areas are policed.’
[/size]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2233126/David-Camerons-bid-beat-police-poll-apathy-Record-low-turnout-feared-commissioner-vote.html#ixzz2CHUNb7ZR
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

I don't think I'll bother voting.
ETA. Sorry about the font size, I tried to alter it but failed.
Editing to add again!. It seems hobson's choice to me. It's going to happen anyway so the question is really, do you want a blue one, a red one, a green one or a yellow one?


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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by Guest on 16.11.12 10:52

Well, what a great turn out for this..............NOT!! Look at the figures......



0903: Nick Robinson Political editor

tweets: Election turnout pitifully low. Democracy = great when you've not got it but not so appealing when you have?

0901:

The first PCC elections look set to be mired in controversy amid reports of low turnout and deserted polling stations. In Wiltshire, 81,477 people out of a total electorate of 520,000 voted - a turnout of 15.8%.


0919: Aled Scourfield BBC News, Wales

tweets: We are hearing from sources that turnout here in Dyfed Powys could be around 20%. No official word yet. That figure was for Pembrokeshire

 
0948:

BBC Wales reporter James Williams reports that counting is under way in South Wales. There is no indication of turnout but the returning officer says he would be surprised if it was markedly different from Gwent's 14%.

 



1003: Deborah McGurran Political editor, East of England

tweets: Essex turnout in PCC election 13.06% and declaration expected at 12.30





1014:

Turnout in Merseyside is reported to be 12.9%.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20354044

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by PeterMac on 16.11.12 12:06

What I want you to do is to increase the numbers of police officers
We can't. The budget won't allow it.
Oh. Well in that case I want you to increase the numbers of uniformed officers on patrol
We can't. We have a multiple murder enquiry with National implications, and all available resources are committed to that
Oh, Well in that case I want you to increase the numbers of Traffic wardens . .
We can't. They stopped being under our control many years ago.
Oh. Well in that case, I suggest we have a full "Launch of the New Policing plan", followed by a slap up lunch in County Hall.
I can agree to that. Are you paying ?
No. I'll put it on expenses.
No change then.

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by Miraflores on 16.11.12 15:11

At a time when money is extremely tight the government has pumped almost
£100 million into this nonsense that will make little difference if any
to levels of accountability.

I absolutely agree. I went up to vote at about 5pm yesterday and about 40 people had already been - normally there would have been hundreds by then. I hadn't the foggiest idea about the majority of the candidates.

Who's bright idea was it?

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by T4two on 16.11.12 15:57

The days of the unelected, unaccountable police authorities, who no one has ever heard of, are over.

The days of the elected unaccountable police authorities who no one has ever heard of are now here...

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by aquila on 16.11.12 16:26

@T4two wrote:
The days of the unelected, unaccountable police authorities, who no one has ever heard of, are over.

The days of the elected unaccountable police authorities who no one has ever heard of are now here...



and the population did vote...with their feet...when they chose not to take part in yet another farce.

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by Guest on 16.11.12 16:30



Record Low Turnout In Police Commissioner Polls


The first police and crime commissioner elections are lambasted after one of the lowest ever turnouts saw polling stations unused.

 

Dire turnouts have threatened to undermine the first ever police and crime commissioner elections, with as few as 10% of voters casting their ballots in some areas.

The Electoral Reform Society branded the elections a "comedy of errors" after a record low turnout left some polling stations - including one in the Newport area - completely unused.

Shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper said the elections for the new commissioners had descended in to a shambles, with many voters taking to Twitter to describe the low turnout at their polling stations.

In Wiltshire, the first force area to declare, the overall turnout was 15.8% as Tory candidate Angus Macpherson, a magistrate, won after a second round of voting ahead of Labour's Clare Moody.

But in one part of Wiltshire, Devizes, only 10.41% of voters took part.

Polling stations elsewhere across the country appeared to be equally as quiet as many people opted not to vote for the first generation of PCCs, despite about £100m being spent on the campaign.

Newport City Council confirmed to Sky News that no voters attended one of its polling stations, which was open from 7am to 10pm on Thursday.

Elsewhere, turnout was 11.42% in Wigan, 12% in Rochdale, 12.59% in Oldham and 12.49% in Manchester. For Greater Manchester as a whole it was 13.46%

In Essex, just 13% of voters took to the polls.

Even in Humberside, where Lord Prescott's name on the ballot paper raised the profile of the election, turnout was only 19.48%.

But policing minister Damian Green defended the turnout, saying it would improve in years to come.

He told Sky News: "I think it's likely with something new coming on that people will take time to get used to it.

"But I'm absolutely sure they will get used to it in the future and the measure of the success will be the difference they make to policing over the next few years."

Elections have been held in 41 police areas outside London.

The newly-elected police and crime commissioner will have the power to control budgets, set policing priorities, and hire and fire chief constables.

The Electoral Reform Society had predicted a turnout of 18.5%, which would be below the previous record low in a national poll in peacetime - 23% in the 1999 European elections.

The society's chief executive, Katie Ghose, said: "This election has been a comedy of errors from start to finish.

"The Home Office has operated under the assumption that 'if you build it they will come'. Democracy just doesn't work that way.

"There have been avoidable errors at every step, and those responsible should be held to account."

The decision to hold the vote in the dark and chilly month of November is seen as part of the reason.

But it seems the biggest problem is that people are not prepared to put a cross beside the name of someone they know little, if anything, about.

Glenda Adcock from Great Yarmouth in Norfolk said she always votes, but not this time.

"I know nothing about the candidates or anything really so I'm not bothering," she said,

And while Bernard Jennings had decided he would take part, he agreed the information had been poor.

"I think they could have done a lot more to help people out so you have a better understanding of what everyone stands for," he said.

The build-up to the election has been a huge disappointment for Policy Exchange, the think-tank which came up with the idea of police commissioners.

"The Government didn't come out with a free mailshot for candidates," said research fellow, Ed Boyd.

"They've spent a lot of time and effort getting this changed to the point that they have done and this wasn't the time to penny-pinch.

"This was the time to make sure people knew what was happening and knew what candidates there were."

The fact many people opted for postal votes may be part of the reason the polling stations seemed so quiet.

But there are those who fear this election may well result in the lowest turnout in a national poll in the country's history.

http://news.sky.com/story/1012172/record-low-turnout-in-police-commissioner-polls

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by T4two on 16.11.12 16:38

@aquila wrote:
@T4two wrote:
The days of the unelected, unaccountable police authorities, who no one has ever heard of, are over.

The days of the elected unaccountable police authorities who no one has ever heard of are now here...



and the population did vote...with their feet...when they chose not to take part in yet another farce.

Very true. Calls the whole election into question IMO. People do not want more politicization of the police. The sight of the old political parties muscling in to grab those lucrative 100 grand a year posts - really quite sickening.

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by PeterMac on 16.11.12 16:44

And if, in the future, 51% vote for the bloke who says he wants the police to get tough on the activities of minority groups . . .
What then ?
He will have a democratic mandate.
And he will have the power to sack the Chief Constable who refuses to obey.
Oh, good.

(for the benefit of the PC brigade - that is IRONY !)

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by aquila on 16.11.12 16:45

@T4two wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@T4two wrote:
The days of the unelected, unaccountable police authorities, who no one has ever heard of, are over.

The days of the elected unaccountable police authorities who no one has ever heard of are now here...



and the population did vote...with their feet...when they chose not to take part in yet another farce.

Very true. Calls the whole election into question IMO. People do not want more politicization of the police. The sight of the old political parties muscling in to grab those lucrative 100 grand a year posts - really quite sickening.

Never mind eh. Children in Need is on tonight. The great UK population will be busy and tomorrow congratulated on their generous spirit. Great day to bury bad news. If I were a cynic I'd think the 'election' date had been calculated.

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by Bob Southgate on 16.11.12 16:53

@PeterMac wrote:And if, in the future, 51% vote for the bloke who says he wants the police to get tough on the activities of minority groups . . .
What then ?
He will have a democratic mandate.
And he will have the power to sack the Chief Constable who refuses to obey.
Oh, good.

(for the benefit of the PC brigade - that is IRONY !)

Not quite Peter (and I note your irony). A police and crimes panel can veto the commissioners decision and they report back to the Home Office. So, no changes really.

As for the turnout, to hear the politicians saying it will improve or we didn't understand what the elections are about is iinsulting to the intelligence of the British public, who know a dead duck when they see one. The sooner that arrogant toff andn his collection of Eton bum chums goes the better as far as I am concerned.

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by aquila on 16.11.12 17:10

@Bob Southgate wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:And if, in the future, 51% vote for the bloke who says he wants the police to get tough on the activities of minority groups . . .
What then ?
He will have a democratic mandate.
And he will have the power to sack the Chief Constable who refuses to obey.
Oh, good.

(for the benefit of the PC brigade - that is IRONY !)

Not quite Peter (and I note your irony). A police and crimes panel can veto the commissioners decision and they report back to the Home Office. So, no changes really.

As for the turnout, to hear the politicians saying it will improve or we didn't understand what the elections are about is iinsulting to the intelligence of the British public, who know a dead duck when they see one. The sooner that arrogant toff andn his collection of Eton bum chums goes the better as far as I am concerned.

PCC. A toothless tiger. You couldn't make it up...oh hold on...they did.... and reportedly spent 75m pounds on it (I'm glad they saved money on not producing leaflets). It was easy to calculate the UK public wouldn't turn out. It was easy to slither politics into policing. It will be just as easy to waffle through it as there are other big stories in the news at the moment and a huge annual fund raising event tonight. Simples.

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by aquila on 16.11.12 17:18

Has anyone seen any more results? It's amazing that such a small turnout (it couldn't have taken long to count) hasn't been published yet. The US presidential election results were faster.

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by Bob Southgate on 16.11.12 17:23

Yes, most of the results are here:-



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19970734

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Re: Police & Crime Commissioner Elections

Post by aquila on 16.11.12 17:28

@Bob Southgate wrote:Yes, most of the results are here:-



[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19970734
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19970734[/quote[/url]]

Thanks Bob.

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