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April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

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April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by jd on 06.10.12 2:10

Oct 4 2012

One of the world's leading forensic psychologists, who was involved in the Madeleine McCann case, has been brought in to help detectives interviewing the key suspect in the five-year-old's abduction from Machynlleth, the Times has reported.

Joe Sullivan, who advised British and Portuguese police in the 2003 McCann case, has been sent to Dyfed-Powys Police by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (Ceop), the newspaper's Friday edition reports.

It adds that officers from the Welsh force recently received training from Chris Stevenson, a now-retired detective who led the investigation into the murders of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman in Cambridgeshire 10 years ago.

It came as a report in Friday's Daily Mirror said two women spotted a man carrying a bin bag and scrambling down a river bank the day after April was abducted.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id232.html

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And detectives have reportedly called on the help of one of the world's leading forensic psychologists, who advised British and Portuguese police in the search for Madeleine McCann.
Joe Sullivan is said to have been drafted into the police investigation team to give advice on interviewing Bridger, The Times claimed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2212734/April-Jones-latest-news-Mark-Bridger-leaves-police-station-court.html

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Hope Joe Sullivan isn't the same one who advised on the RI's questions, that the 'suspects' mccanns were allowed to ask all the witnesses!!!

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by tigger on 06.10.12 6:38

from McCannfiles:
Highly respected forensic psychologist Dr Joe Sullivan arrived in Praia da Luz within 48 hours of Madeleine's disappearance (according to Martin Brunt - reports at the time stated 08 May 2007), as part of a so-called 'Cracker' team with Detective Superintendent Graham Hill. He returned to the UK on 09 May 2007.

He later helped in the production of, and personally narrated, the A Minute for Madeleine campaign video; An appeal directly to the person who is keeping a 'secret' about Madeleine, 'who knows who's involved in her disappearance' and who may have been groomed by the perpetrator(s) to stay quiet.

In January 2010, he shared a stage with Gerry McCann at the CEOP conference entitled: 'Taken: Sexually-motivated child abductions', although Gerry McCann, despite being booked as the closing speech, spoke earlier in the day and would have missed the speech by Dr Joe Sullivan.
unquote

So it took only 48 hours then, at least twice as long when it's on the doorstep so to speak.
He was 100% wrong on the MMc case and I'd like to see a record of his successes if there are any. I've trawled through a few sites and read a few speeches which basically tell us a few obvious facts about paedophiles. What I rarely read is about a control issue with this type of criminal. It's very evident in the JS case and the video where he boasts that he tied people up and put them in the cellar.
Some men cannot cope with women unless they are completely under their control, children are easier to manage. I can't see Bridger as a paedophile, otherwise why should he have so many relationships with women? I do see him as a control fanatic who could really go off the rails if he gets ditched by a woman instead of he other way round.
Just my opinion. This wasn't planned either imo. He was furious about something that evening it seems, the psychology is simple, tantrum - revenge.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by Woofer on 06.10.12 11:52

@tigger wrote:from McCannfiles:
Highly respected forensic psychologist Dr Joe Sullivan arrived in Praia da Luz within 48 hours of Madeleine's disappearance (according to Martin Brunt - reports at the time stated 08 May 2007), as part of a so-called 'Cracker' team with Detective Superintendent Graham Hill. He returned to the UK on 09 May 2007.

He later helped in the production of, and personally narrated, the A Minute for Madeleine campaign video; An appeal directly to the person who is keeping a 'secret' about Madeleine, 'who knows who's involved in her disappearance' and who may have been groomed by the perpetrator(s) to stay quiet.

In January 2010, he shared a stage with Gerry McCann at the CEOP conference entitled: 'Taken: Sexually-motivated child abductions', although Gerry McCann, despite being booked as the closing speech, spoke earlier in the day and would have missed the speech by Dr Joe Sullivan.
unquote

So it took only 48 hours then, at least twice as long when it's on the doorstep so to speak.
He was 100% wrong on the MMc case and I'd like to see a record of his successes if there are any. I've trawled through a few sites and read a few speeches which basically tell us a few obvious facts about paedophiles. What I rarely read is about a control issue with this type of criminal. It's very evident in the JS case and the video where he boasts that he tied people up and put them in the cellar.
Some men cannot cope with women unless they are completely under their control, children are easier to manage. I can't see Bridger as a paedophile, otherwise why should he have so many relationships with women? I do see him as a control fanatic who could really go off the rails if he gets ditched by a woman instead of he other way round.
Just my opinion. This wasn't planned either imo. He was furious about something that evening it seems, the psychology is simple, tantrum - revenge.

In my experience and through monitoring of control fanatics and some people with personality disorders, having worked in mental health for many years, their is a definite pattern of extremely heightened and/or exaggerated emotions at the time of the full moon or when the sun and moon are in challenging aspect to each other. Scientific studies have always said there is no basis in this but there definitely is (maybe because they want to discredit things they don`t have answers for). There was a full moon when April went missing, a full moon when Tia went missing and a full moon when Madeleine went missing. These are just the most recent cases.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by tigger on 06.10.12 12:13

Full moon was on the 2nd of May 2007, but I take your point. I don't sleep well during a full moon and I have friends who don't either. A certain restlessness. I think I'm pretty sane.
Since the moon influences the tides and we're mostly made of water, I can't see why there shouldn't be an effect on people.

But I don't think the moon was a factor in the disappearance of Maddie.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by Woofer on 06.10.12 13:43

@tigger wrote:Full moon was on the 2nd of May 2007, but I take your point. I don't sleep well during a full moon and I have friends who don't either. A certain restlessness. I think I'm pretty sane.
Since the moon influences the tides and we're mostly made of water, I can't see why there shouldn't be an effect on people.

But I don't think the moon was a factor in the disappearance of Maddie.

Doesn`t have to be exact Tigger, the lead up can be worse. I`m not saying its the cause, but I believe it could have been a factor in the days before the 3rd, well let`s just say it intensified or exaggerated the feelings (whatever type they may be, whether lust, jealousy, anger, irritability etc., they always seem to be of the negative type) in the days before.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by Guest on 06.10.12 14:16

@Woofer wrote:
@tigger wrote:Full moon was on the 2nd of May 2007, but I take your point. I don't sleep well during a full moon and I have friends who don't either. A certain restlessness. I think I'm pretty sane.
Since the moon influences the tides and we're mostly made of water, I can't see why there shouldn't be an effect on people.

But I don't think the moon was a factor in the disappearance of Maddie.

Doesn`t have to be exact Tigger, the lead up can be worse. I`m not saying its the cause, but I believe it could have been a factor in the days before the 3rd, well let`s just say it intensified or exaggerated the feelings (whatever type they may be, whether lust, jealousy, anger, irritability etc., they always seem to be of the negative type) in the days before.

Kate did leave her man to sleep alone in another bed , on their holliday...

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by bobbin on 06.10.12 16:16

@Woofer wrote:
@tigger wrote:from McCannfiles:
Highly respected forensic psychologist Dr Joe Sullivan arrived in Praia da Luz within 48 hours of Madeleine's disappearance (according to Martin Brunt - reports at the time stated 08 May 2007), as part of a so-called 'Cracker' team with Detective Superintendent Graham Hill. He returned to the UK on 09 May 2007.

He later helped in the production of, and personally narrated, the A Minute for Madeleine campaign video; An appeal directly to the person who is keeping a 'secret' about Madeleine, 'who knows who's involved in her disappearance' and who may have been groomed by the perpetrator(s) to stay quiet.

In January 2010, he shared a stage with Gerry McCann at the CEOP conference entitled: 'Taken: Sexually-motivated child abductions', although Gerry McCann, despite being booked as the closing speech, spoke earlier in the day and would have missed the speech by Dr Joe Sullivan.
unquote

So it took only 48 hours then, at least twice as long when it's on the doorstep so to speak.
He was 100% wrong on the MMc case and I'd like to see a record of his successes if there are any. I've trawled through a few sites and read a few speeches which basically tell us a few obvious facts about paedophiles. What I rarely read is about a control issue with this type of criminal. It's very evident in the JS case and the video where he boasts that he tied people up and put them in the cellar.
Some men cannot cope with women unless they are completely under their control, children are easier to manage. I can't see Bridger as a paedophile, otherwise why should he have so many relationships with women? I do see him as a control fanatic who could really go off the rails if he gets ditched by a woman instead of he other way round.
Just my opinion. This wasn't planned either imo. He was furious about something that evening it seems, the psychology is simple, tantrum - revenge.

In my experience and through monitoring of control fanatics and some people with personality disorders, having worked in mental health for many years, their is a definite pattern of extremely heightened and/or exaggerated emotions at the time of the full moon or when the sun and moon are in challenging aspect to each other. Scientific studies have always said there is no basis in this but there definitely is (maybe because they want to discredit things they don`t have answers for). There was a full moon when April went missing, a full moon when Tia went missing and a full moon when Madeleine went missing. These are just the most recent cases.

The word 'lunatic' is the description for someone who behaves in an mad, over excitable, out of control, fashion. 'Luna' being latin for moon, the concept of behaviour being affected by full moon goes back to whenever.

Regarding the tides, the moon can lift sea water some 32 feet. We are mainly water, can we seriously deny that the water molecules in our brains can categorically NOT be subject to some subtle effect or other.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by Guest on 06.10.12 17:32

@bobbin wrote:[...]

The word 'lunatic' is the description for someone who behaves in an mad, over excitable, out of control, fashion. 'Luna' being latin for moon, the concept of behaviour being affected by full moon goes back to whenever.

Regarding the tides, the moon can lift sea water some 32 feet. We are mainly water, can we seriously deny that the water molecules in our brains can categorically NOT be subject to some subtle effect or other.
***
I think you cannot deny it. My very sweet [sometimes too sweet] late first husband went "crazy" at full moon.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by PeterMac on 06.10.12 17:51

And there are farmers who only sow seed at certain phases of the moon. The thinking is that even ground water will move up and down in the same way as the spring and neap tides. I am not sure of any scientific analysis, but that should be very easy to do. Just poke a series of sensors into the ground at different depths, and wait for a month.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by bobbin on 06.10.12 18:32

@PeterMac wrote:And there are farmers who only sow seed at certain phases of the moon. The thinking is that even ground water will move up and down in the same way as the spring and neap tides. I am not sure of any scientific analysis, but that should be very easy to do. Just poke a series of sensors into the ground at different depths, and wait for a month.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Don't wait for 'scientific approval' before you can believe something. That comes at the end of the knowledge road.

'Science' comes from Latin word 'scire' to 'know'. Something only becomes a statement of scientific fact once all the simple ideas, observations, testing, anecdotal passed-on-information, leading to an ability to predict outcome, becomes established. Trust the observations in nature, the ancient and the hands-on wisdoms. Just because we may not have the technology or the wit, to test or verify something, does not mean that eons of anecdotal experience and observation are invalid.

ETA. one of my cats lives away in the nature reserve but comes home, each time, before the weather changes for the worse.
He is always correct and the locals now call him the 'weather cat'. The forecasters predictions are often wrong, he is always correct. Now, tell me how that happens.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by Woofer on 06.10.12 19:11

@bobbin wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:And there are farmers who only sow seed at certain phases of the moon. The thinking is that even ground water will move up and down in the same way as the spring and neap tides. I am not sure of any scientific analysis, but that should be very easy to do. Just poke a series of sensors into the ground at different depths, and wait for a month.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Don't wait for 'scientific approval' before you can believe something. That comes at the end of the knowledge road.

'Science' comes from Latin word 'scire' to 'know'. Something only becomes a statement of scientific fact once all the simple ideas, observations, testing, anecdotal passed-on-information, leading to an ability to predict outcome, becomes established. Trust the observations in nature, the ancient and the hands-on wisdoms. Just because we may not have the technology or the wit, to test or verify something, does not mean that eons of anecdotal experience and observation are invalid.

ETA. one of my cats lives away in the nature reserve but comes home, each time, before the weather changes for the worse.
He is always correct and the locals now call him the 'weather cat'. The forecasters predictions are often wrong, he is always correct. Now, tell me how that happens.

Bobbin - my friend`s cat was similar and she reckoned it was because animals are more sensitive to changes in atmospheric pressure.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by Miraflores on 06.10.12 19:22

I once had a boss who used to have outbursts of rage periodically. We started keeping a chart to see whether it was correlated to the phases of the moon. I can't remember know whether we found a correlation - he left thankfully.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by bobbin on 06.10.12 19:25

@Woofer wrote:
@bobbin wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:And there are farmers who only sow seed at certain phases of the moon. The thinking is that even ground water will move up and down in the same way as the spring and neap tides. I am not sure of any scientific analysis, but that should be very easy to do. Just poke a series of sensors into the ground at different depths, and wait for a month.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Don't wait for 'scientific approval' before you can believe something. That comes at the end of the knowledge road.

'Science' comes from Latin word 'scire' to 'know'. Something only becomes a statement of scientific fact once all the simple ideas, observations, testing, anecdotal passed-on-information, leading to an ability to predict outcome, becomes established. Trust the observations in nature, the ancient and the hands-on wisdoms. Just because we may not have the technology or the wit, to test or verify something, does not mean that eons of anecdotal experience and observation are invalid.

ETA. one of my cats lives away in the nature reserve but comes home, each time, before the weather changes for the worse.
He is always correct and the locals now call him the 'weather cat'. The forecasters predictions are often wrong, he is always correct. Now, tell me how that happens.

Bobbin - my friend`s cat was similar and she reckoned it was because animals are more sensitive to changes in atmospheric pressure.
Now that is very interesting. I will see how it correlates with swimming in the lake here. It sounds crazy, but sometimes the water is really 'easy' to swim in, and other times it seems 'hard'. We have been wondering if it had anything to do with air pressure / density of water? Will see if it ties in with weather cat, (until the water gets too cold to swim).

Sorry, back to topic, only comment, instincts are to be respected IMHO, along with the first reports and not the later embellished smokescreens and back-fillers.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by Upsy Daisy on 06.10.12 19:31

I can wholeheartedly vouch for the effects of the full moon........ with my daughter I conceived from early (7 days earlier!) ovulation due to full moon and this time round too, without a doubt I know I ovulated a whole week earlier, due to the full moon and conceived (and know for sure it was from then!). I sleep with my shutters open with the moon beaming down on me, I love it's splendour!. Both my children are / were due on the exact same date! 5 January.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by Woofer on 06.10.12 19:43

I mentioned the full moon as an addition to the fact that a psychologist was being brought in, someone who is well versed in disorders and idiocyncracies of the mind, but I didn`t expect anyone would corroborate the full moon affect. I find it interesting particularly as the moon was full at so many past traumas, Maddies included and hence that someone around little April was rather strung up at that time.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by PeterMac on 06.10.12 20:38

@Miraflores wrote:I once had a boss who used to have outbursts of rage periodically. We started keeping a chart to see whether it was correlated to the phases of the moon. I can't remember know whether we found a correlation - he left thankfully.
Not being flippant, but might it also have had to do with his wife's "Phases of the moon ".
We are the product of many millions of years of evolution, and the cycles which rule us - diurnal, monthly (Latin = menstrual) and so on are not accidental.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by Miraflores on 06.10.12 20:47

Not in his case PeterMac, he was what used to be called a 'confirmed bachelor'.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by Woofer on 06.10.12 21:07

.... Anyway .... all this moon stuff is what has always led me to think that Maddie`s demise most likely came about because of heightened intensity of negative feelings and that it was not a coldly planned demise - and maybe similar with April`s disappearance.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by Guest on 06.10.12 22:38

@PeterMac wrote:And there are farmers who only sow seed at certain phases of the moon. The thinking is that even ground water will move up and down in the same way as the spring and neap tides. I am not sure of any scientific analysis, but that should be very easy to do. Just poke a series of sensors into the ground at different depths, and wait for a month.
***
I can give you an example again: my late mother-in-law was always growing plants and flowers from seeds. Once, long long time again, I bought a nice collection of those and gave her half of it. She had plenty of flowers and vegetables, I had hardly anything, even though I nursed them according to the book. She later explained to me that I had been sowing at the wrong moon cycle. Yes ... there's more between heaven and earth ... winkwink

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by Guest on 06.10.12 22:44

Oops, seems I'm running behind the rest of comments here ...

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by bobbin on 06.10.12 23:02

Châtelaine wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:And there are farmers who only sow seed at certain phases of the moon. The thinking is that even ground water will move up and down in the same way as the spring and neap tides. I am not sure of any scientific analysis, but that should be very easy to do. Just poke a series of sensors into the ground at different depths, and wait for a month.
***
I can give you an example again: my late mother-in-law was always growing plants and flowers from seeds. Once, long long time again, I bought a nice collection of those and gave her half of it. She had plenty of flowers and vegetables, I had hardly anything, even though I nursed them according to the book. She later explained to me that I had been sowing at the wrong moon cycle. Yes ... there's more between heaven and earth ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/oct/06/orkney-temple-centre-ancient-britain
fascinating article here on 5,000 year old architectural finds of enormous importance in Orkney. Reference to the importance of the moon included.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by PeterMac on 06.10.12 23:38

Châtelaine wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:And there are farmers who only sow seed at certain phases of the moon. The thinking is that even ground water will move up and down in the same way as the spring and neap tides. I am not sure of any scientific analysis, but that should be very easy to do. Just poke a series of sensors into the ground at different depths, and wait for a month.
***
I can give you an example again: my late mother-in-law was always growing plants and flowers from seeds. Once, long long time again, I bought a nice collection of those and gave her half of it. She had plenty of flowers and vegetables, I had hardly anything, even though I nursed them according to the book. She later explained to me that I had been sowing at the wrong moon cycle. Yes ... there's more between heaven and earth ... winkwink

Hence, possibly, the rituals and the 'religious' beliefs of primitive peoples about menstruation. Close to me is a Bodega which makes "Kosher" wine. Proper stamp and everything. (So you can add € 5 a bottle.)
How it is this Kosher ?
No woman is involved in the collection of the grapes, or the production of the wine, for fear he might be having her """Period""" dontgetit

Don't blame me !
I was at a bat-mitzvah in Paris some years ago and asked one of the guests what the difference was between Kosher Champagne and Normal Champagne.
His answer was typical Jewish Humour.





















The price.

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Re: April Jones search: Madeleine McCann expert drafted in

Post by Guest on 06.10.12 23:48

PM, I LOVE Jewish humour, yes, I do.
Though this may not be the forum to start telling my favourite jokes ...
[As a aside: just like David Payne judged that the rogatory interviews were not the forum to tell what else he knew and might be of interest ... spin ]

But if anyone would want to have a laugh, let me know, and I'll share them with you big grin the Jewish jokes, that is ...

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